It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => World/Foreign Affairs => Topic started by: AlanS on July 10, 2016, 12:14:15 PM
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http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/asean/1031673/nine-more-killed-in-dutertes-war (http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/asean/1031673/nine-more-killed-in-dutertes-war)
No wonder Dutertes is so popular.
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Apparently there are not too many concerned with due process. Like in this empire of ours.
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A lot of this is pissed off people taking things into their own hands. Heh, one of the biggest incidents was at the local mosque. I think it was 5 killed in that shootout.
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Speaking of which...
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/795293/2-boxes-yield-edsa-pickpockets (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/795293/2-boxes-yield-edsa-pickpockets)
This is not a politically correct people who take s**t. Now that Duterte has signaled his intentions, people are running with it.
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Back in my Navy days...the PC (Philippine Constabulary) had no qualms about chasing and shooting pickpockets...people who are willing to defend themselves from criminality shouldn't be denied their rights.
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Back in my Navy days...the PC (Philippine Constabulary) had no qualms about chasing and shooting pickpockets...people who are willing to defend themselves from criminality shouldn't be denied their rights.
This sort of thing can usually start well, and the worst bad apples go first, but it usually ends with Murder being the chosen punishment, and for petty offenses - like playing your music too loud. Hopefully it doesn't go there.. there is only so much vigilantism a nation can stand before the vigilantes are more powerful than the government
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Back in my Navy days...the PC (Philippine Constabulary) had no qualms about chasing and shooting pickpockets...people who are willing to defend themselves from criminality shouldn't be denied their rights.
This sort of thing can usually start well, and the worst bad apples go first, but it usually ends with Murder being the chosen punishment, and for petty offenses - like playing your music too loud. Hopefully it doesn't go there.. there is only so much vigilantism a nation can stand before the vigilantes are more powerful than the government
I think there is a cultural factor to consider...in the majority Catholic and mainstream population there is probably going to be no loss of sleep over dirtbags of many stripes being disappeared...the taste for violent actions against petty misdomeanors is likely going to backfire on vigilantes and could put a target on themselves. In all such cases though there will be outliers, the choice as always is which way to be biased?
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I think there is a cultural factor to consider...in the majority Catholic and mainstream population there is probably going to be no loss of sleep over dirtbags of many stripes being disappeared...the taste for violent actions against petty misdomeanors is likely going to backfire on vigilantes and could put a target on themselves. In all such cases though there will be outliers, the choice as always is which way to be biased?
Power corrupts. When humans don't have a system of laws, and a procedure seen as "fair" for dealing with bad actors, things can and probably will spiral out of control culturally ( as the United States has) The more acceptance there is for vigilante justice, the less respect there will be for rule of law justice. If you feel you have been wrongs, why go to all of that hassle with a legal system you don't trust, when you can put a call into the vigilante friend of your brother in law and have the score settled? Family members are always more credible than some schmuck they accused of stealing, or raping, or drug dealing. Vigilante groups largely do not have comprehensive investigative units nor do they hold investigative trials to determine guilt.
This sort of justice will corrupt all cultures, catholic or whatever.. If the vigilante groups become the defacto enforcers they become the defacto law. That power will likely corrupt the men who started out getting rid of the worst of the worst. IN fact most honorable men who started the movement or group will quietly quit when they have accomplished what they set out to do, and leave it to lesser men to do the smaller cleaning up and maintenance. During this phase the defacto power of the body doing the enforcing will attract its own bad apples.
If this happens for a short time and then stops when the worst of the worst are gone, then all fine and good. But I wouldn't say that was the normal or typical course that can be observed in history, and once established it can be very difficult to stop. A Robespierre always seems to find his way to the top of such an organization, and then starts using its power to rule by fear - all for a better world and the common good of course.
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I think there is a cultural factor to consider...in the majority Catholic and mainstream population there is probably going to be no loss of sleep over dirtbags of many stripes being disappeared...the taste for violent actions against petty misdomeanors is likely going to backfire on vigilantes and could put a target on themselves. In all such cases though there will be outliers, the choice as always is which way to be biased?
Power corrupts. When humans don't have a system of laws, and a procedure seen as "fair" for dealing with bad actors, things can and probably will spiral out of control culturally ( as the United States has) The more acceptance there is for vigilante justice, the less respect there will be for rule of law justice. If you feel you have been wrongs, why go to all of that hassle with a legal system you don't trust, when you can put a call into the vigilante friend of your brother in law and have the score settled? Family members are always more credible than some schmuck they accused of stealing, or raping, or drug dealing. Vigilante groups largely do not have comprehensive investigative units nor do they hold investigative trials to determine guilt.
This sort of justice will corrupt all cultures, catholic or whatever.. If the vigilante groups become the defacto enforcers they become the defacto law. That power will likely corrupt the men who started out getting rid of the worst of the worst. IN fact most honorable men who started the movement or group will quietly quit when they have accomplished what they set out to do, and leave it to lesser men to do the smaller cleaning up and maintenance. During this phase the defacto power of the body doing the enforcing will attract its own bad apples.
If this happens for a short time and then stops when the worst of the worst are gone, then all fine and good. But I wouldn't say that was the normal or typical course that can be observed in history, and once established it can be very difficult to stop. A Robespierre always seems to find his way to the top of such an organization, and then starts using its power to rule by fear - all for a better world and the common good of course.
Indeed, why?
As for the rest...sh*t happens...can only deal with the sh*t in front of you...or not.
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Vigilantism won't be a problem as long as the State provides an avenue for real and effective justice. Vigilantism is the hallmark of a failed state. We will soon be seeing a lot more of it here.
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Back in my Navy days...the PC (Philippine Constabulary) had no qualms about chasing and shooting pickpockets...people who are willing to defend themselves from criminality shouldn't be denied their rights.
This sort of thing can usually start well, and the worst bad apples go first, but it usually ends with Murder being the chosen punishment, and for petty offenses - like playing your music too loud. Hopefully it doesn't go there.. there is only so much vigilantism a nation can stand before the vigilantes are more powerful than the government
Tis a slippery slope.
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Back in my Navy days...the PC (Philippine Constabulary) had no qualms about chasing and shooting pickpockets...people who are willing to defend themselves from criminality shouldn't be denied their rights.
This sort of thing can usually start well, and the worst bad apples go first, but it usually ends with Murder being the chosen punishment, and for petty offenses - like playing your music too loud. Hopefully it doesn't go there.. there is only so much vigilantism a nation can stand before the vigilantes are more powerful than the government
Tis a slippery slope.
Apply some non-skid in parts...git-r-done!
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Just saw Duterte's approval rating on the news, last night.
87-5.
He's liked just a little bit, as you can see.
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Well, the vacuum created by decades of corruption, lies and rot can be quite strong...the trick is to not get stuck with a psychotic lunatic for an ass-kicker, other than that the people really can't be blamed for wanting to stick it to the entrenched cronies. In this case I think they did OK. And Trump isn't quite in the mold of Duterte so if Progs try to make that leap I think they'll plunge to their deaths. Some of the things Duterte says and does would truly horrify the hive mind. If they think Trump is like that, well...perhaps that'd be an invite to set them up for several well-planned ambushes.
::evil::