It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => Politics/Legislation/Elections => Topic started by: trapeze on May 21, 2011, 04:38:41 PM
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LINK (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/21/businessman-herman-cain-set-join-2012-gop-race/)
Tea Party favorite Herman Cain announced his long-shot presidential candidacy to a raucous crowd in Atlanta Saturday, yelling, "I'm running for president of the United States and I'm not running for second."
At a rally attended by thousands, the businessman, author and talk radio show host showed he knows how to wow a conservative gathering. The crowd chanted, "Herman, Herman, Herman," as Cain unleashed the same soaring rhetoric and relentless attacks on President Obama that has created buzz in recent weeks.
"Let me tell you some of the reasons why I'm running for president of the United States.We have become a nation of crises," he said, citing morals, the economy, entitlement spending, immigration and foreign affairs as among the crises facing the nation.
"And we've got a deficiency of leadership crisis in the White House," he said to roaring cheers.
I'm not so sure that Cain is a long-shot. I think that that might have been true a few years ago. Since the rise of the Tea Party activism...not so much.
Cain is his own worst enemy in this situation. Which is not to say that he has any glaring weaknesses but rather that only he can screw this up...it's his race to lose. And that is the thing about political neophytes: They are prone to speak from the heart about what they truly believe without any regard to the political fallout. So the press sets them up and they walk right into the trap. I hope that Cain is able to avoid most of these and that he is able to extricate himself easily when he does get caught. Time will tell. The media will leave him largely alone for now.
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From Fox News, Chris Wallace:
http://dailycaller.com/2011/05/22/herman-cain-i%E2%80%99d-offer-palestinians-%E2%80%98nothing%E2%80%99-in-peace-deal/ (http://dailycaller.com/2011/05/22/herman-cain-i%E2%80%99d-offer-palestinians-%E2%80%98nothing%E2%80%99-in-peace-deal/)
Video clip at link
Chris Wallace: “What would president Cain offer the Palestinians to make peace?”
Herman Cain: “Nothing. Because I’m not convinced the Palestinians are really interested in peace. If the Palestinians comje to the table with Israel with a genuine offer that the two of them can sit down and negotiate, the United States would, in fact, facilitate that discussion. But if we look at history, it has been clear that the Palestinians have always wanted to push the Israelis, and push Israel, for more and more and more. I don’t agree with that, and I respect Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu or taking a stand and saying they cannot give that up.”
paraphrasing
Chris Wallace: What about the Palistinian right of return?
Herman Cain: Right of return? Return? ................
HT: The Other McCain (http://theothermccain.com/2011/05/22/mitch-daniels-wont-run-in-2012-cites-overwhelming-herman-cain-momentum/)
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Herman Cain: Right of return? Return? ................
Apparently not up to speed on that little item, which situation I expect he's rectifying right the hell now. If he follows true to form, we'll get a better answer next time in the form of "not just no, but hell no".
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Herman Cain: Right of return? Return? ................
Apparently not up to speed on that little item, which situation I expect he's rectifying right the hell now. If he follows true to form, we'll get a better answer next time in the form of "not just no, but hell no".
Perhaps if you listened to the clip.
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You may be right Trap, but I think being a lesser known commodity still hurts a little bit, from the standpoint that if he experiences a major gaffe, it could prove catastrophic. It is bad for any candidate to experience a gaffe, but candidates perceived as outsiders have a little tougher row to hoe and as such must be more bold in debates and remarks, which I totally have no problem with, boldness is especially needed right now, but it increases the potential for errors. Something the candidate needs to be aware of, I do not imply playing it safe is the better option by any means, that will just get us another Ruling Class nominee. Every candidate makes minor gaffes, and the good ones know how to recover. I look forward to hearing more of Cain and see what he can do in the primaries.
Right now though the big money seems to be rolling in to Romney, which if I had my choice in '08 I would have preferred over J-Mac, but in '12 he is not my guy...but that kind of money will ensure he sticks around...the big question is who will be the anti-Romney?!
PS-Charles, for the Palestinian problem I would have liked to have seen an answer like "The Palestinian problem as you put it, is an Arab problem, not an Israeli problem. These were people expelled by countries like Jordan, Egypt and Libya...why are you making an Arab problem an Israeli problem?"!
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You're right; I didn't listen to the clip. I don't like doing so. I read the DailyCaller link instead which stated that Cain's eventual opinion was "right of return" would need to be negotiated, but he didn't really seem to know what that was.
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Either he should have said what I said or stopped at "nothing"!
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My mind must have been overdubbing. The inflection on the word return insinuated to me him saying, 'Return? Return, WTF do you mean return?' Then he retracting back from an overly aggressive stance. It appears only I heard it that way.
As Libertas said, "I would have liked to have seen an answer like "The Palestinian problem as you put it, is an Arab problem, not an Israeli problem. These were people expelled by countries like Jordan, Egypt and Libya...why are you making an Arab problem an Israeli problem?"!", would have been an excellent response.
It is becoming a trademark of Wallace to frame a question in such a manner that boxes in the answer otherwise the protagonist must out box Wallace. People such as Rumsfeld take this style of antagonism and shine. This is a hurdle for a non politician such as Cain.
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Does one have to be up to speed on every little item on the planet to be good enough for the elitist? Obamakov obviously wasn't, Reagan wasn't, Kennedy wasn't etc....
We, here at this forum, generally can be, but we're extremists.
At this point I'd much rather have someone up to speed in terms of Constitution of the Republic which up to this point, Cain, Bachman and Paul are.
Romney is a hack who didn't even know the MA Constitution.
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Does one have to be up to speed on every little item on the planet to be good enough for the elitist? Obamakov obviously wasn't, Reagan wasn't, Kennedy wasn't etc....
We, here at this forum, generally can be, but we're extremists.
At this point I'd much rather have someone up to speed in terms of Constitution of the Republic which up to this point, Cain, Bachman and Paul are.
Romney is a hack who didn't even know the MA Constitution.
Agreed on all points. However .... it is just these tricky little foreign policy questions with which the "elite" media began tripping up Sarah Palin after which they moved on to every other subject, frivolous (what publications do you read?) and otherwise, leaving her deemed "unqualified" in many minds.
It worked so well, I'm 100% sure they intend to run the same routine on Cain.
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They'll "run that routine" on whoever is the candidate!
Our eventual nominee will have to adapt to this environment and come out firing, like I said "staying on offense 24/7" and the time to start is now. I want a fighter who will fight from now till hell freezes over!
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Cain doesn't have to know everything he just needs to master the non-answer when answering reporters.
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Extremist eh? (mulling it over)
OK, I'm fine with that. ::thumbsup::
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Extremist eh? (mulling it over)
OK, I'm fine with that. ::thumbsup::
“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” —Barry Goldwater
::thumbsup::
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The good news is that the primary season starts so early now that there is a LOT of time to recover from minor gaffes. The only thing that will kill a Cain campaign at this point is a major gaffe. A character issue or a fundamental policy issue.
Yeah, they torpedoed Palin with foreign policy BS but remember, that was done in the latter stages of the primary, just weeks before the Republican nominating convention. She had no time to recover. That she is still a force to be reckoned with over two years later testifies to the notion that she could have easily recovered given more time.
Cain has time on his side.
Of all of the primary names currently being considered, Cain is my favorite at this point. His positives far outweigh his negatives. In fact his only real negative, that he is not a professional politician, is to many of us a positive in and of itself. Cain has even remarked on it, making it part of his stump speech..."So you've had professional politicians up to this point and how's that working out for you?"
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He will certainly add an interesting dynamic to the primaries which will no doubt cause the Ruling Class types to be defensive. People better back up some of their actions and words or their bumbling and backsliding will avalanche in on them! One way or another he will help serve a useful purpose.
::thumbsup::
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Anybody seen this (http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/05/rock_you_like_a_hermancain.html) yet?
In addition, in a more intimate setting I was able to find out how Cain has meticulously picked a team and implemented a plan that is extraordinarily well conceived. With the same focus and planning that one would expect from a CEO with business turnaround experience, he has launched a campaign from nothing that has now some 200 thousand internet based volunteers and a donor base growing by leaps and bounds.
Cain handpicked his internet guru for the campaign that put this plan in place, but also sports a computer science degree himself. Cain was a techie before techie was cool, one of the many impressive things about his resume lost in the "pizza man" jazz. At 65, he has a very modern campaign structure around the internet and social networking.
Working the tea party grass roots game plan, Cain hired Mark Jon Block as his chief of staff. Block, along with Reince Preibus, masterminded the tea party take over of Wisconsin, which not only turned out of office liberal Senator Russ Feingold and put Scott Walker into the governor's mansion, but also turned over both houses in the Wisconsin legislature. When you couple this with the fact that Cain became a tea party favorite with his many speeches over the last two years, there are the makings of a brush fire ground up campaign.
(That Preibus, a tea party type guy, is now in charge of the RNC is also encouraging).
Thus, when announcement day in Atlanta drew larger crowds than anyone expected and the atmosphere was electric, I was not that surprised. There is more to the Cain Train than most know. And there was not just a festive atmosphere and a lot of cheering, those cheers came from many cheeks moist with tears that a Cain candidacy is actually what real hope and change should feel like for America.
I pulled it out of the middle; the rest is interesting as well, if a little rah-rah.
That Cain is savvy enough to gear up to the Dem tech-level is encouraging, to say the least. I'm not in love, but I like what I see.
OT: Keep forgetting to H/T IDP for the good idea of bolding the blue link.
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Cain needs to make sure he's got all the bases covered. He can't appear to be uninformed on key issues like the Middle East. The media is already spinning his "Right of return? Right of return" response to Chris Wallace as his "Sarah Palin blank stare" moment, and his statement that Palestinains have a "right" to return if Israel lets them as an amateurish and convoluted answer.
In this media environment, a (conservative) person has just got to expect that missteps will be turned against them, and that things that can be made to look like missteps will be.
Palin said she would only get in the race if someone adequately conservative did not emerge. If Cain emerges, we'll see how serious she was about that. I could imagine a Cain/Palin or a Palin/Cain ticket running on the GOP ticket and squashing Obama. I could also see them running independently as a third option, finishing a strong second over a squish like Romney or Pawlenty, and rendering a mortal wound to the GOP establishment. Of course, the price for that would be 4 more years of Obama and quite likely the loss of the Republic.
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Thorough background write-up here:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/267029/introducing-herman-cain-robert-costa?page=1 (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/267029/introducing-herman-cain-robert-costa?page=1)
Last page: supported TARP. Ugh.
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Thorough background write-up here:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/267029/introducing-herman-cain-robert-costa?page=1 (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/267029/introducing-herman-cain-robert-costa?page=1)
Last page: supported TARP. Ugh.
He supported it in 2008, it will be interesting to see when and what he said upon revisiting and revising his remarks in 2009 after Obama extended and revised TARP.
The revelations about this ex-chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City will help shape the ultimate impression of him.
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There was a post at the Market Ticker yesterday:
Herman Cain Announces: Tickerguy Challenges (http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=186623)
Denninger and most of the commenters are not impressed with him.
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OT: Keep forgetting to H/T IDP for the good idea of bolding the blue link.
It is a good idea. Any way to make it automatic? They do that at Pajamas Media.
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Didn't he answer that question today with his explanation of the Fair Tax, no increase of the debt ceiling, and paying down the Chinese first?
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OT: Keep forgetting to H/T IDP for the good idea of bolding the blue link.
It is a good idea. Any way to make it automatic? They do that at Pajamas Media.
I just gave it a look and I don't see how, but a lot of it's Greek to me anyway. IDP may know how to do so.
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There was a post at the Market Ticker yesterday:
Herman Cain Announces: Tickerguy Challenges (http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=186623)
Denninger and most of the commenters are not impressed with him.
Ace isn't either...
Here's the thing...a lot of candidates can say crowd pleasing things but in the end we are trying to find a President. As we see on a daily basis, having a President that gives exciting speeches but is bad on those darn details is a recipe for disaster.
But I think he's willing to give him some time to get his foreign policy sh*t together. As I said, Cain has time to build a credible candidacy. Try as I might I just can't get excited about Pawlenty. I want someone who is passionate about America and conservatism. I want someone who isn't afraid of Toonces.
Right now, Cain is that guy. I would be delighted to see others become that guy because it can only make the Republican alternative that much more appealing to the average voter.
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The fact that we are obsessed with a Presidential race a year and a half before the election speaks volumes about the degree to which the Federal government has usurped powers that once belonged to state and local government. I seriously doubt that our ancestors decades ago cared this much about the Presidency.
Which shows just how much closer the President has become to being a dictator.
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From Commentary (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/05/22/re-what-the-top-tier-can-learn-from-herman-cain/):
After Wallace explained the Palestinian demand to return to the homes they were “thrown out of” [sic!] in 1948, Cain said that would be negotiated between the Israelis and Palestinians. “I don’t think Israel has any problem with Palestinians’ returning,” he said.
Even though Cain had told Wallace just a few moments before that he would offer the Palestinians “nothing,” because he is not convinced they are committed to peace and democracy, his cluelessness on the right of return suggests that Cain is more blowhard than gadfly.
So, yeah, the elites of the right aren't impressed. Well, I'm not impressed with Romney or Pawlenty. Sue me.
But, as I said, it's early. Very early. No primaries to be won or lost until early next year. So, to me, this is no big deal. It's like a baseball team not doing particularly well in spring training games. Nothing matters until the season begins in earnest. This is the time to have minor gaffes. This is the time to work out the kinks in your media presentation. This is the time to swing and miss. If Cain (or anyone else) takes advantage of these early weeks and months properly we will end up with someone who is ready to stand up to Toonces, to stand up to the hostile media and present a confident face to the voter.
And at this point the voter is looking for any credible alternative to the boob in the White House.
So it's all good.
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The fact that we are obsessed with a Presidential race a year and a half before the election speaks volumes about the degree to which the Federal government has usurped powers that once belonged to state and local government. I seriously doubt that our ancestors decades ago cared this much about the Presidency.
Which shows just how much closer the President has become to being a dictator.
I understand your concern but I disagree with your assertion. I believe that the now overly long primary season is due more to the 24 hour news cycle that has been created by cable/satellite television and the blogosphere. A vacuum has been created for content that must be filled.
That and the fact that the current seat warmer in the White House is so incredibly incompetent that the voters are yearning for a replacement. Starving for a replacement.
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Trap, you're right about the 24 hour news cycle, but I think a great deal of it has to do with the vastly expanded federal government; and now Obama, who is openly showing contempt for Constitutional restrictions on the Presidency.
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From Commentary (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/05/22/re-what-the-top-tier-can-learn-from-herman-cain/):
After Wallace explained the Palestinian demand to return to the homes they were “thrown out of” [sic!] in 1948, Cain said that would be negotiated between the Israelis and Palestinians. “I don’t think Israel has any problem with Palestinians’ returning,” he said.
Even though Cain had told Wallace just a few moments before that he would offer the Palestinians “nothing,” because he is not convinced they are committed to peace and democracy, his cluelessness on the right of return suggests that Cain is more blowhard than gadfly.
So, yeah, the elites of the right aren't impressed. Well, I'm not impressed with Romney or Pawlenty. Sue me.
...
And at this point the voter is looking for any credible alternative to the boob in the White House.
So it's all good.
::thumbsup::
I don't see the contradiction. One, he says he doesn't think they are committed to peace and democracy and two, he says he would let them work it out. And IIRC earlier he had said the problems between the Israelis and the Palestinians should be worked out between themselves.
What those elites don't approve of is that the Cain plan doesn't have the US elitist foreign policy experts assisting with the negotiations.
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Trap, you're right about the 24 hour news cycle, but I think a great deal of it has to do with the vastly expanded federal government; and now Obama, who is openly showing contempt for Constitutional restrictions on the Presidency.
I have no argument with you about the size of the federal government, who has been behind it and why. I merely commented about the reason(s) for the ridiculously long primary season.
The media has a vacuum to fill. That there isn't enough "news" to fill that vacuum is also evidenced by the continual use of polls and polling data as "news." Putting a microphone and camera in front of anyone and everyone who even vaguely entertains the notion of running for president is similar.
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OT: Keep forgetting to H/T IDP for the good idea of bolding the blue link.
It is a good idea. Any way to make it automatic? They do that at Pajamas Media.
I just gave it a look and I don't see how, but a lot of it's Greek to me anyway. IDP may know how to do so.
I don't know how to make it automatic. I just highlight the text between ] and [ and hit the "B" button.
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One more late night post (http://minx.cc/?post=316549) on Cain's FNC interview from AoS.
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OK, so I finally got a chance to view Cain's FNS interview and am now ready to render my .02
Herman Cain is an honorable guy and a great businessman. He won't be president - at least not in 2012. Simply stated, he isn't ready for primetime. It isn't just the "right of return" gaff. It's his half-baked policies combined with a fundamental lack of knowledge.
God damn the foolish morons who elected the Øba-messiah! I fear that this country will never be able to return to sanity. We have a pResident who literally doesn't know sh!t from shinola and is intent upon proving it to the entire world. This nation cannot compound that error by electing another OTJ trainee - even a well intentioned one.
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Herman Cain is climbing up in the non-biased Gallup Poll.
In another Gallup poll he is tops in enthusiasm.
It's About Liberty link to article (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/05/26/Mitt-Romney-tops-Gallup-poll/UPI-38931306417772/)
[blockquote]Among potential candidates, Mitt Romney leads Sarah Palin 17 percent to 15 percent, while *Ron Paul, Newt Gingrich and Herman Cain are tied for third, each with 8 percent of the vote, a Gallup Poll released Thursday said.
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*If the trio were named alphabetically Cain would be named first. They had to work on that.