It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => TEOTWAWKI => Topic started by: John Florida on August 02, 2011, 12:50:01 PM
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How The Liberator Gasifier Works (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnjDqDbtHx8#)
http://garringergasifier.com/ (http://garringergasifier.com/)
Some thing we can talk about.
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I'd like to hear Weisshaupt's take on this.
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Fantastic post John, Thanks.
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It looks primitive and Rube Goldberg-ish. I bet it's a handful to keep running with any sort of consistency and I'm wary of "secret" filters. Patented - fine. "Trade secret" I'm OK with. But secret sets off my skeptometer ::exitstageleft::
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It looks primitive and Rube Goldberg-ish. I bet it's a handful to keep running with any sort of consistency and I'm wary of "secret" filters. Patented - fine. "Trade secret" I'm OK with. But secret sets off my skeptometer ::exitstageleft::
If you go to you tube there are a few others out there and even do it yourself deals. Just to get ideas from.But in the vids from the TV show those guys were running their truck with one.
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It looks primitive and Rube Goldberg-ish. I bet it's a handful to keep running with any sort of consistency and I'm wary of "secret" filters. Patented - fine. "Trade secret" I'm OK with. But secret sets off my skeptometer ::exitstageleft::
If you go to you tube there are a few others out there and even do it yourself deals. Just to get ideas from.But in the vids from the TV show those guys were running their truck with one.
I guess my point (did I have a point?!) was that I don't doubt that it works in theory - I just wonder how practical it would be to try to power anything for any real period of time? All my TEOTWAWKI fantasies featured hydro-power (Damn the EPA, the BLM, and anybody else with an acronym :o
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It looks primitive and Rube Goldberg-ish. I bet it's a handful to keep running with any sort of consistency and I'm wary of "secret" filters. Patented - fine. "Trade secret" I'm OK with. But secret sets off my skeptometer ::exitstageleft::
If you go to you tube there are a few others out there and even do it yourself deals. Just to get ideas from.But in the vids from the TV show those guys were running their truck with one.
I guess my point (did I have a point?!) was that I don't doubt that it works in theory - I just wonder how practical it would be to try to power anything for any real period of time? All my TEOTWAWKI fantasies featured hydro-power (Damn the EPA, the BLM, and anybody else with an acronym :o
I don't know. But all it's doing is releasing the Hydrogen in the wood gasses. The fuel is Hydrogen gas all this thing does is not let it burn off before it's uses.What bothers me is I don't know why he ran the blowers odd a 110 plug when he had a 7kw generator running that he could have plugged into as soon as it was running. Dos the generator produce full power? But in the TV shoe the guys running the truck had theirs adapted to run a full size generator to power the house. Maybe it's a matter of size and we all know size matters.
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I'd like to hear Weisshaupt's take on this.
Okay, you asked for it :>)
From what I can tell this is basically the distillation of wood- we did this in my 7th grade science class. So yes, you can get a nice explosive gas from doing this, and it its a perfectly viable fuel source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasification)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas_generator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas_generator)
However you should consider:
1) the compression ratios in most engines will be wrong. If I were to do this, I would expect to have to do modifications on the engine to get a good result - but LP based machines might be okay with minor adjustments. Like running on alcohol, significant engine adjustments will probably be required.
2) Storage. Energy storage is always, always, always the major problem. Mostly this is H2 we are burning, and H2 is small. Really Small. It likes to get out of whatever container you put it in - so much so that when most humans store it, they do it in a liquid form, in a pressure container. You can make synthgas out of this.. and store that, but that is a whole other process.
3) Purity. - but given the source material you are going to get all sorts of other stuff too - which, over time will gum up the filters, or worse, it can get in the engine. If the filter doesn't prevent the larger oils and chemicals from getting into the engine, its going to tar things up. The long term effects on the engine of running a fuel it wasn't designed for may require more maintenance than you want. The engine running too hot/cold or with potentially corrosive gases ( trees contain a lot of things that can become caustic) is going to not do well over time. Of course in a real teotwaki situation, you do what you gotta do.
4) Feedstock.. this is fuel conversion is going to work best with chips, so you need to reduce your feedstock into that form by some method. Yes a Wood Chipper will work fine-- but what are you fueling that with?
5) Carbon Monoxide. Lots of it.
So as a backup/alternative to Solar, this is fine, providing the output is clean enough to not F' up your generator. I would still prefer Solar because it requires almost no attention and has fewer moving parts.
For a Propane/LP alternative you would need the high pressure equipment to take the gas and push it into the pressure tank - and then you may have to modify any appliances you have to get the right air/fuel mixture.
For heat/Hot water? Again, I don't see the need. A modern wood pellet stove does essentially the same thing.. though I would be interested on seeing the efficiency numbers of this process. This article suggests in large scale systems, its a difference of 30 to 36% for electricity production , and 62% and 82% if you are also using the heat. - which should put it in the same range as your typical modern stove (70-80%) without the need to get the fuel really, really hot, or to chip it up. And those are large scale numbers.. I suspect small scale numbers are going to be worse.
http://www.biorefine.org/proc/biomassgas.pdf (http://www.biorefine.org/proc/biomassgas.pdf)
But maybe not.. this company claims a 87% conversion - which is probably 10% better than a wood stove, with hot water thrown in.
http://www.alternativefuelboilers.com/searchlanding.html?gclid=CLmRpoz5taoCFQVrKgodwD6m7w (http://www.alternativefuelboilers.com/searchlanding.html?gclid=CLmRpoz5taoCFQVrKgodwD6m7w)
However, I suspect probably just easier throwing another log on the fire in a normal stove. Water heating can also easily be done with solar, using a pretty cheap DYI system - and again, its one of those set it and forget it kind of things-- especially if you have an automatic alternative to heat the water on days when the sun isn't co-operating... but that brings us back to the propane.
I would be very wary of using this on a vehicle - especially one you plan to depend upon. You need to know the fuel is clean...
As with all of these newbie/greenie tech, the companies supplying this are questionable. In a brief search I didn't find any that really seem to have a handle on it..
These guys seemed the "best".. http://victorygasifier.com/ (http://victorygasifier.com/) - offering what appear to be polished, turnkey systems.. but they don't seem to list prices ( always a worrisome thing to me) and they have a $500 "mentoring" program if you need more than a few hours of support. (and if their product was that good, why would they need that? )
However, there seem to be some industrial companies that might be more viable ( and expensive)
http://www.chiptec.com/index.html#products (http://www.chiptec.com/index.html#products)
So in summary, yes this is a viable Teotwaki technology, but to my mind it has significant limitations compared to other methods.. - in particular with the energy storage. Yes, you could mount one on your vehicle, spend 10 minutes firing it up, and load the hopper with about a pound of biomass for every mile you plan to drive. Or you can produce ( and STORE!) biodiesel or alcohol..
All of this is also going to depend on what you are planning for. If you think there is going to be a Max Max scenario - yes you probably need one. If you instead just see us declining into the third world, then there will be people producing synthgas, alcohol, bio-diesel if the Oil becomes unattainable or too expensive. I am not aiming for 100% independence... and I still think a liquid fuel is the way to go for vehicles , but I may be wrong :>)
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Awesome rundown & links Weisshaupt! I knew you were the go-to guy for this!
::thumbsup::
The effect on engines, purity and storage are big issues. It might make a good fallback plan, but given most people's budgets it might get trumped by other priorities (such is my opinion).
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Awesome rundown & links Weisshaupt! I knew you were the go-to guy for this!
::thumbsup::
The effect on engines, purity and storage are big issues. It might make a good fallback plan, but given most people's budgets it might get trumped by other priorities (such is my opinion).
It always boils down to money.
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Mother Earth has a blueprint for something like this (I think)
Assemble this wood-gas generator from recycled water heaters. Convert an internal combustion engine (100-cubic-inch or greater displacement) into your own home energy system or use the generator to run a truck. This blueprint includes materials list, step-by-step instructions and black-and-white photos. Advanced mechanical and metalworking skills recommended.
https://www.motherearthnews.com/order/order.aspx?promocode=MMEEMB81&utm_content=MMEEMB81_08.04_+SPLIT+A&utm_campaign=MEN_MERCH&utm_source=iPost&utm_medium=email#Item762 (https://www.motherearthnews.com/order/order.aspx?promocode=MMEEMB81&utm_content=MMEEMB81_08.04_+SPLIT+A&utm_campaign=MEN_MERCH&utm_source=iPost&utm_medium=email#Item762)
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Excellent run-down Weisshsupt, thank you. Beyond my capabilities, but I'll definitely store teh info.
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Weisshsupt, thank you.
AlanS and his friends probably have a proven energy acquisition and distillation system blueprinted in their brains. If such a need occurs moving to bayou country with lots of barbecue and Budweiser may be a good solution.
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Weisshsupt, thank you.
AlanS and his friends probably have a proven energy acquisition and distillation system blueprinted in their brains. If such a need occurs moving to bayou country with lots of barbecue and Budweiser may be a good solution.
You don't burn that stuff(heathen) that's sippin liquor.