It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => Politics/Legislation/Elections => Topic started by: jpatrickham on September 07, 2011, 10:38:34 AM
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Read this on the Web at http://patriotpost.us/edition/2011/09/07/chronicle/ (http://patriotpost.us/edition/2011/09/07/chronicle/)
Chronicle · September 7, 2011
The Foundation
"The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave."
--Patrick Henry
Editorial Exegesis
GOP debate"Republican presidential candidates kick off the critical fall campaign season Wednesday night when they take the stage at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, Calif. This would be a good occasion to abandon platitudes and begin hashing out concrete ideas for addressing the nation's most pressing long-term issue -- unsustainable spending on entitlement programs. Any serious plan to get our nation's fiscal house in order -- something that all GOP contenders have promised to do -- would have to involve fundamental yet politically controversial reforms of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Over the next decade, those three programs alone will cost taxpayers $21.4 trillion under the Congressional Budget Office's rosiest scenario. ... Within 10 years, the big three entitlements are projected to account for more than half of federal spending, at which point they will already be squeezing the government's ability to deliver other needed services. ... Thus far, the candidates have adopted the prevailing wisdom of the political class, which is that GOP emphasis on specific entitlement reforms will give President Obama a bludgeon with which to hammer Republicans. Yet a failure to confront the nation's long-term fiscal situation is hurting the economy now by creating a cloud of uncertainty for businesses. Even if Obama won't take the risk of tackling entitlements, the Republicans must for the greater good." --The Washington Examiner
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This will be the first comparative test for Rick Perry, and the first higher-profile opportunity for Bachmann to reassert herself since Iowa. Romney can outperform Perry and Perry still survives. If Perry outperforms Romney, I don't see how Romney survives.
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This will be the first comparative test for Rick Perry, and the first higher-profile opportunity for Bachmann to reassert herself since Iowa. Romney can outperform Perry and Perry still survives. If Perry outperforms Romney, I don't see how Romney survives.
That, just about sums it all up! ::thumbsup::
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The part where Romney doesn't survive works for me.
PS-At the MN State Fair Bachmann won the straw poll vote at the GOP booth, not entirely surprising, but given the moderates infesting the state GOP it is a hopefull sign.
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Although the Republicans are vying for the nomination, I sincerely hope they display the knowledge that it is Obama they're running against and focus their attacks on him, not on each other.
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An untold part of the story is, technically, how she accomplished it and who was the adviser that made it happen.
We know that RP always wins these things and that his minions were there working it. Bachmann not only
had to win the rational vote but overcome the RP machine. I don't think Rollins was on board then and
her team and its manager deserves some credit. I had expected the skills that won the poll would keep
her closer to the front than has happened.
It's good that Fox is hosting the debate tonight. Whatever faults Fox has, they have run the best debates.
They cause and allow the participants to engage.
Is Trap going to be hosting a live blogging event here tonight?
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Although the Republicans are vying for the nomination, I sincerely hope they display the knowledge that it is Obama they're running against and focus their attacks on him, not on each other.
I thought Chris Wallace was wrong, and I liked what Newt Gingrich said early, after awhile he should have let it go though. That go around effectively took Pawlenty out of the debate. That is not what we need this early in the game!
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Where the heck is this kind of fire and laser-like focus from this pallet of candidates? A rare moment of clarity from the much maligned RiNO establishment Newtster...
Newt Gingrich Slams Media & Obama at Reagan Library Debate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtkSFGkjaXU#)
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So far these PMSNBC asshats are trying to get Repub furballs going, but most are not biting.
Williams and especially this other jackass are typical lefty pukes.
::puke::
::mooning::
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This will be the first comparative test for Rick Perry, and the first higher-profile opportunity for Bachmann to reassert herself since Iowa. Romney can outperform Perry and Perry still survives. If Perry outperforms Romney, I don't see how Romney survives.
That, just about sums it all up! ::thumbsup::
Double ::thumbsup:: ::thumbsup::
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What do know even a blind squirrel can find a NUT ::doh::
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Where the heck is this kind of fire and laser-like focus from this pallet of candidates? A rare moment of clarity from the much maligned RiNO establishment Newtster...
Newt Gingrich Slams Media & Obama at Reagan Library Debate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtkSFGkjaXU#)
I like Newt. If I only judge him for his efforts for America, he gets an "A". I don't think he can win, but I'd hope, whoever the nominee is, they would use his knowledge to bury obama.
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He was dead right and while I was watching the debate and saw quickly where this was going...you could tell Newt was going to unload on the MFM putz...you'd think they'd have learned from last time, but proglodytes are stuck on stupid and the MFM is as stupid as they come so of course they are going to try to push such a stupid tactic.
Most handled this MFM trash well, but I don't think Santorum or Huntsman did.
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My dream team has always been Sarah Palin with Newt Gingrich her Vice. He would be a great caddy, and she would hit a hole in One!
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Newt's just made too many damned politically motivated stupid mistakes for my taste. Sitting by Pelosi in a Global Warming PSA? Shoveling sh¡t on Paul Ryan's budget just at the moment it needed support?
I can't imagine that pinch-faced, chubby-cheeked wonk becoming anything other than a Secretary of _________ in somebody else's administration. There's no question he has a lot to offer. But I just do not trust the guy as representing the American people, or conservatism.
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Newt's just made too many damned politically motivated stupid mistakes for my taste. Sitting by Pelosi in a Global Warming PSA? Shoveling sh¡t on Paul Ryan's budget just at the moment it needed support?
I can't imagine that pinch-faced, chubby-cheeked wonk becoming anything other than a Secretary of _________ in somebody else's administration. There's no question he has a lot to offer. But I just do not trust the guy as representing the American people, or conservatism.
It's why I want to judge him for his accomplishments......and try to ignore his stupidity with pelosi and the Ryan thing....I actually wonder if Newt does believe the global warming crap or if he fell into the trap. I do believe he would be great as Secretary of ________. I certainly do not want to compromise my beliefs, but I also do not want to lock someone out who has the knowledge to do some good, especially when the liberal crap flies....Newt can handle it.
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Newt's just made too many damned politically motivated stupid mistakes for my taste. Sitting by Pelosi in a Global Warming PSA? Shoveling sh¡t on Paul Ryan's budget just at the moment it needed support?
I can't imagine that pinch-faced, chubby-cheeked wonk becoming anything other than a Secretary of _________ in somebody else's administration. There's no question he has a lot to offer. But I just do not trust the guy as representing the American people, or conservatism.
It's why I want to judge him for his accomplishments......and try to ignore his stupidity with pelosi and the Ryan thing....I actually wonder if Newt does believe the global warming crap or if he fell into the trap. I do believe he would be great as Secretary of ________. I certainly do not want to compromise my beliefs, but I also do not want to lock someone out who has the knowledge to do some good, especially when the liberal crap flies....Newt can handle it.
Newt may be able to "handle it", but he doesn't get the power to impose anything, in my book.
I'm with IDP. Newt is too willing to stand on any bandwagon.
We use his brain; he gets no power. AT. ALL.
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MSDNC Poll Results
Ron Paul 44.4%(23,543 votes)
Mitt Romney 20.9%(11,070 votes)
Rick Perry 16.2%(8,568 votes)
Jon Huntsman 7.6%(4,030 votes)
Newt Gingrich 4.1%(2,177 votes)
Herman Cain 3%(1,569 votes)
Michele Bachmann 2.7%(1,414 votes)
Rick Santorum 1.2%(651 votes)
What
A
Joke.
Gotta love the followup "analysis" at MSDNC with five of five hard leftists one of whom is an abject idiot (yeah, I know, which one? Sharpton can't analyze his way out of a paper bag).
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Why, on God's green earth, would the GOP agree to do a debate on MSNBC? They have choices, for Pete's sake. Not many, but they chose the worst of the worst.
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Newt's just made too many damned politically motivated stupid mistakes for my taste. Sitting by Pelosi in a Global Warming PSA? Shoveling sh¡t on Paul Ryan's budget just at the moment it needed support?
I can't imagine that pinch-faced, chubby-cheeked wonk becoming anything other than a Secretary of _________ in somebody else's administration. There's no question he has a lot to offer. But I just do not trust the guy as representing the American people, or conservatism.
Don't forget, for a smart guy, he sure let Billy-Jeff get the drop on him on SocSec, and the Left has been playing that wither on the vine meme ever since!
::gaah::
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MSDNC Poll Results
Ron Paul 44.4%(23,543 votes)
Mitt Romney 20.9%(11,070 votes)
Rick Perry 16.2%(8,568 votes)
Jon Huntsman 7.6%(4,030 votes)
Newt Gingrich 4.1%(2,177 votes)
Herman Cain 3%(1,569 votes)
Michele Bachmann 2.7%(1,414 votes)
Rick Santorum 1.2%(651 votes)
What
A
Joke.
Gotta love the followup "analysis" at MSDNC with five of five hard leftists one of whom is an abject idiot (yeah, I know, which one? Sharpton can't analyze his way out of a paper bag).
PaulBots strike again...jeez...they're like the plague!
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Where the heck is this kind of fire and laser-like focus from this pallet of candidates? A rare moment of clarity from the much maligned RiNO establishment Newtster...
Newt Gingrich Slams Media & Obama at Reagan Library Debate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtkSFGkjaXU#)
For my money, this was the highlight of the night. People can talk about RINO's and all that stuff, but the truth is that Newt is the smartest guy on the stage and could probably do the best job as President.
Newt had the best moment of the night, and Romney beat Perry. Romney may well have a lock on this election.
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Why, on God's green earth, would the GOP agree to do a debate on MSNBC? They have choices, for Pete's sake. Not many, but they chose the worst of the worst.
One would think there are still Ruling Class morons in the GOP who think giving such treats to reliably hostile networks will earn them points with the MFM...
Ignorance can be cured, stupid lasts for eternity...
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Why, on God's green earth, would the GOP agree to do a debate on MSNBC? They have choices, for Pete's sake. Not many, but they chose the worst of the worst.
One would think there are still Ruling Class morons in the GOP who think giving such treats to reliably hostile networks will earn them points with the MFM...
Ignorance can be cured, stupid lasts for eternity...
On the other hand, if Republicans only appear on Fox, they feed into the sterotype. And lets face it: Independents are going to decide who is president in 2012 whether we like it or not.
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Why, on God's green earth, would the GOP agree to do a debate on MSNBC? They have choices, for Pete's sake. Not many, but they chose the worst of the worst.
One would think there are still Ruling Class morons in the GOP who think giving such treats to reliably hostile networks will earn them points with the MFM...
Ignorance can be cured, stupid lasts for eternity...
On the other hand, if Republicans only appear on Fox, they feed into the sterotype. And lets face it: Independents are going to decide who is president in 2012 whether we like it or not.
The have been running away from SCoaMF faster than the Dem's...so we don't have to abase ourselves too much to the MFM, hell even CNN would be better than PMSNBC!
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The have been running away from SCoaMF faster than the Dem's...so we don't have to abase ourselves too much to the MFM, hell even CNN would be better than PMSNBC!
I don't disagree with you, and I despise MSNBC too. I'm just sayin'............
Besides, the debate didn't come of too bad.
Of course, I didn't dare watch the after-debate gobbldeygook. THAT panel was like a meeting of the Politburo
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The whole thing about "we need to moderate the message to woo independents" has been a contrived foil for the GOP establishmentarians for decades now. This is not to say there's never a kernel of truth to it, but there is nothing conventional about 2012. The left has shown its colors over the past few years, and the vaunted independents can't run away from it fast enough. Now is not the time for a moderate squish, for two major reasons: 1) it's not necessary, the independents are already unlikely to endorse 4 more years of this and 2) only stalwart conservatism has the slightest chance of correcting course.
I stopped watching the debate when Mr. Moderator posed a question, I think it was to Rick Perry, about the income disparity between blacks and whites in his state and what he thought should be "done" to "solve" it. I'm just beyond sick of the premise that it is the duty of government to assure equality of outcome and condition. Any answer other than that only feeds the false premise.
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Going into the leftist camp for a debate is OK. It allows us to view how our potential candidates will deal with these fools as president.
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Newt Gingrich is the smartest Person in the room, any room. Having said that, he is also a jerk but, I believe most Politicians, Musicians, and Actors are. They all seem to suck at real life. Maybe they have been coddled to much? Trouble is whom ever takes the reins as our next President, God willing, is going to have to clean up a mess maybe worse than Abraham Lincoln inherited. If that person was me, Newt Gingrich would be my first choice to help. Gingrich has a horrible track record in his personal life, so do I but, no one loves their Country more, and in these dismal times, that is what really matters.
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He's the smartest man in the room and quite possibly the most undisciplined man in the room.
We need a president who can chart a course from point A to point B and stick with it.
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The whole thing about "we need to moderate the message to woo independents" has been a contrived foil for the GOP establishmentarians for decades now. This is not to say there's never a kernel of truth to it, but there is nothing conventional about 2012. The left has shown its colors over the past few years, and the vaunted independents can't run away from it fast enough. Now is not the time for a moderate squish, for two major reasons: 1) it's not necessary, the independents are already unlikely to endorse 4 more years of this and 2) only stalwart conservatism has the slightest chance of correcting course.
I stopped watching the debate when Mr. Moderator posed a question, I think it was to Rick Perry, about the income disparity between blacks and whites in his state and what he thought should be "done" to "solve" it. I'm just beyond sick of the premise that it is the duty of government to assure equality of outcome and condition. Any answer other than that only feeds the false premise.
There is a kernal of truth...but this election it is a small kernal. If you call yourself a "moderate" and you are voting for obama, just how "moderate" are you??? Matter of fact, if you call yourself moderate and still undeicied over obama, how moderate are you???
This country in right leaning or if we must, we can call it middle right. There is nothing middle about obama. There is a reason he is left handed.
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Newt Gingrich is the smartest Person in the room, any room. Having said that, he is also a jerk but, I believe most Politicians, Musicians, and Actors are. They all seem to suck at real life. Maybe they have been coddled to much? Trouble is whom ever takes the reins as our next President, God willing, is going to have to clean up a mess maybe worse than Abraham Lincoln inherited. If that person was me, Newt Gingrich would be my first choice to help. Gingrich has a horrible track record in his personal life, so do I but, no one loves their Country more, and in these dismal times, that is what really matters.
Well put.
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It is the LEFT that must
moderate obfuscate its views in order to attract the middle and win over independents. They've been lying about their true aims to win national elections ever since I started paying attention. The establishment of both parties would have us believe that the same applies to Republicans. This is a lie.
Conservatives win when they articulate conservatism. The "tack to the middle" strategy has been a failure every time it has been tried.
Reagan articulated conservatism and asked the rest of the nation to join him. He won two landslides.
George HW Bush articulated conservatism and won, then betrayed it, and lost.
Dole Tacked to the middle, and lost.
George W. Bush / Karl Rove invented "Compassionate Conservatism" - articulating fiscal and social conservative principles that could be sold to the base with populist appeal, while offering bigger and more powerful federal government as a solution to a myriad of issues.
Bush lost the popular vote, and Rove's "carve 'em up" electoral vote strategy delivered the Presidency, at great, great cost to the party and the nation.
But my point here isn't to rehash Bush, but to say that George W. Bush told us exactly who and what he was, from square one. He didn't present himself as one thing, and then morph into something else for the general election. He remained consistent through two elections and two terms as president. He wore his agenda on his sleeve, as it were.
But his appeal to the middling independents that won the White House was Karl Rove's cynical strategy to divide the American people for the benefit of a big government GOP machine. They would have us believe that only appealing to the middle can win, when the reality is that appealing to the middle was just a strategy to get a semi-conservative elected. Rove's divisive electoral map was designed to be successful winning the presidency on a semi-conservative platform, and it worked. Rove's strategy worked the way Bush needed it to work to get a semi-conservative elected, but that doesn't mean Bush was elected because the country wanted a semi-conservative. Now the intelligentsia would have us believe that only a middling Republican can get elected. Hogwash.
So for any of these GOP candidates (Romney and his supporters) to rest on the notion that the GOP nominee must be someone who can appeal to the independent middle on mushy, unprincipled ground, is a lie. You dump the Rove strategy, look at how you can divide the electoral map to get a conservative elected, and find a candidate who can appeal to that independent middle on conservative ground.
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Yes, you're correct.
And the middle will respond to clarity and dependability, it is a secure comfort zone. They did not expect Obama to destroy America, they expected him to cure the ills and they see the promise corrupt. Conservatism clearly stated with a conviction of dependability will win everything.
Perry said, for example, SS is a Ponzi scheme, it is a lie to all the young people to tell them it will be there for them, he will transition out of it and that the promise will be kept to those too old to participate in the transition. A clear truth and the pundits are calling it a faux pas. It's a winner.
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I am becoming more and more disgusted with our choices as this goes on.
And the process
No, I didn't watch the debate. I was at work.
I've always subscribed to the great man(woman) theory of history.
In times of crisis, a great leader will come forth.
We're definitely in a crisis.
Who, among this bunch, looks one iota of having greatness?
Sorry, I'm on my curmudeonly, cranky old man roll
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"It is the LEFT that must moderate obfuscate its views in order to attract the middle and win over independents. They've been lying about their true aims to win national elections ever since I started paying attention. The establishment of both parties would have us believe that the same applies to Republicans. This is a lie."
Great Post, we had the first and the last real true Conservative in Ronald Reagan, and for some reason, ain't no more. What happened to the Reagan Revolution? Moderate won't cut it anymore. No more stinking Liberals, and Moderates, only ushers in the next Obama or Clinton. Treachery and Lechery, ain't no way to bring up your Kids!
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No matter who you like Glen Beck said it best..the MSLSD bunch were trying their best to nullify Perry... ::thinking::
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True, but they and that Politico asshat hate all non-proglodytes, Perry just happened to be the new guy from a big state they had a Jones to tease!
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Very well said, IDP. ::beertoast::
Charles, you made a good point as well -- it's past time for a conservative nominee to stand on and teach those principles and to tell the truth to people, particularly about Social Security. Any young person halfway paying attention knows by now the "system" will not be operational for them and it makes people very cynical when they realize they're being lied to.
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The left made a tactical error with obama, imo. I believe they feel no need to obfuscate to the "moderates" as long as the press is supporting thier diversions of the people, but hussian obama has lurched left without pretense. Mistake. He is violating the comfort zone of the uninformed and all conservatives need to do is be real conservatives.
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Hey, here's a debate summary by Barone. (http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/reagan-librarymsnbcpolitico-debate)
He had this to say about Perry:
Perry came prepared to exchange barbs with Mitt Romney but not to defend Texas against the stereotypical complaints against Texas relayed by Brian Williams. He accepted Williams’s invitation to pummel Romney on Massachusetts’s low rate of job creation during Romney’s single term as governor and managed to note that it created fewer jobs then than during Michael Dukakis’s governorship in the 1980s (Romney didn’t think to note that Perry was a Democrat during most of that time and backed Al Gore for the 1988 Democratic nomination which Dukakis won). He was less adroit in explaining why Texas has relatively high levels of people without health insurance (one obvious reason: it has higher percentages of young people and immigrants, legal and illegal, than the national average).
He did manage to make the point that, although Texas spends less money on education than many other states and—horror of horrors to Brian Williams, cut education spending from projected levels this year—that its black and Latino students tend to have higher test scores than in many high-spending teacher-union-dominated states. He was, I think, suitably presidential in going out of his way to give Barack Obama and the Navy SEALs credit for killing Osama bin Laden, and he was steadfast in defending Texas’s record on capital punishment. (Note to Brian Williams: You may be against capital punishment, as I am, but most Americans favor it in appropriate circumstances, and every American president including Barack Obama has supported it; it’s not un-American to execute the most heinous criminals.)
Perry was also interestingly passionate in defending his decision to require hpv inoculations and he accepted the invitation to attack Ron Paul for his 1987 renunciation of Ronald Reagan; he was strong in maintaining that Social Security is a “Ponzi scheme” for Americans now in their twenties. His call for predator drones to police the border with Mexico precluded any attacks on him for opposing the border fence in Texas (where, as he has pointed out before, it’s impractical since the border runs along a river). His statements that Keynesian economics was now dead.
Barone critiqued them all.
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Dana Milbank (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-irrelevancy-of-the-obama-presidency/2011/09/09/gIQA6WKvDK_story.html?hpid=z) chronicles members of congress (in both parties) not taking the big speech seriously.
Republicans laughed.
Democrats acted bored and read newspapers.
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And, noting Milbank's column, this is from Commentary: (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/09/09/obama-wings-of-wax/)
As Jimmy Carter can tell you, for a president to become an object of disdain and apathy is a very dangerous place to find himself.
It has been a stunning fall from grace for Obama, a man who, upon taking office, was routinely compared to Kennedy, to FDR, and even to Lincoln. One is tempted to say those comparisons were unfair to Obama, except that he did so much to invite them.
By now, the cult-like effect Obama had on his supporters is a distant, fading memory. The Greek columns built for his convention speech now look simply silly, as does Obama’s promise to heal the earth and reverse the ocean tide. His core appeal was aesthetic, and hence fleeting. It turns out Obama really was best equipped to be a community organizer and a state senator and perhaps not very much more than that. But Obama, a man of extraordinary self-regard, decided he was the world-historical person we had been waiting for. (What can one say about a person who surrounded himself with aides who referred to him as “Black Jesus” during the campaign?)
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We can revel in Obama's apparent fall from grace all we want, but until the damage he has wrought is undone, he is the one who will revel last.
Obamacare must be undone, or Obama - and Socialism - have won.
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And, noting Milbank's column, this is from Commentary: (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/09/09/obama-wings-of-wax/)
As Jimmy Carter can tell you, for a president to become an object of disdain and apathy is a very dangerous place to find himself.
It has been a stunning fall from grace for Obama, a man who, upon taking office, was routinely compared to Kennedy, to FDR, and even to Lincoln. One is tempted to say those comparisons were unfair to Obama, except that he did so much to invite them.
By now, the cult-like effect Obama had on his supporters is a distant, fading memory. The Greek columns built for his convention speech now look simply silly, as does Obama’s promise to heal the earth and reverse the ocean tide. His core appeal was aesthetic, and hence fleeting. It turns out Obama really was best equipped to be a community organizer and a state senator and perhaps not very much more than that. But Obama, a man of extraordinary self-regard, decided he was the world-historical person we had been waiting for. (What can one say about a person who surrounded himself with aides who referred to him as “Black Jesus” during the campaign?)
Sitting here wondering why Milbank didn't label them all racist.
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We can revel in Obama's apparent fall from grace all we want, but until the damage he has wrought is undone, he is the one who will revel last.
Obamacare must be undone, or Obama - and Socialism - have won.
And it certainly doesn't help when we have Republicans making proclamations that ObamaCare is here to stay (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,2589.0.html) and that our focus should be on "adapting" it.
The election of Obama has pulled back the curtains on two very important things. One, it has shown the true motivations of the Democratic Party and how thoroughly controlled it is by the Left. Two, it has shown us -- by way of their reaction to the grassroots movement against Obamunism -- how depraved and status-seeking the Republican establishment is.