It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => General Board => Topic started by: Roy Rogers on February 28, 2011, 02:39:18 PM
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Just returned from a working trip in San Antonio. What Obama and his socialist brethren are attempting to do in America makes (in my view) the actions of the Alamo defenders more pertinent today, than at any other time in my lifetime:
William Barret Travis - Alamo Letters
http://www.ntanet.net/travis.html (http://www.ntanet.net/travis.html)
From the 25th to the present date, the enemy have kept up a bombardment from two howitzers (one a five and a half inch, and the other an eight inch) and a heavy cannonade from two long nine-pounders, mounted on a battery on the opposite side of the river, at a distance of four hundred yards from our walls. During this period the enemy has been busily employed in encircling us with entrenchments on all sides, at the following distance, to wit -- in Bexar, four hundred yards west; in Lavilleta, three hundred yards south; at the powder-house, one thousand yards east by south; on the ditch, eight hundred yards north. Notwithstanding all this, a company of thirty-two men from Gonzales, made their way into us on the morning of the 1st inst, at three o'clock, and Col. J.B. Bonham (a courier from Gonzales) got in this morning at eleven o'clock without molestation. I have so fortified this place, that the walls are generally proof against cannon-balls; and I shall continue to entrench on the inside, and strengthen the walls by throwing up dirt. At least two hundred shells have fallen inside our works without having injured a single man; indeed, we have been so fortunate as not to lose a man from any cause, and we have killed many of the enemy. The spirits of my men are still high, although they have had much to depress them. We have contended for ten days against an enemy whose numbers are variously estimated at from fifteen hundred to six thousand, with Gen. Ramirez Sesma and Col. Bartres, the aid-de-camp of Santa Anna, at their head. A report was circulated that Santa Anna himself was with the enemy, but I think it was false. A reinforcement of one thousand men is now entering Bexar from the west, and I think it more than probable that Santa Anna is now in town, from the rejoicing we hear. Col. Fannin is said to be on the march to this place with reinforcements; but I fear it is not true, as I have repeatedly sent to him for aid without receiving any. Col. Bonham, my special messenger, arrived at Labahia fourteen days ago, with a request for aid; and on the arrival of the enemy in Bexar ten days ago, I sent an express to Col. F. which arrived at Goliad on the next day, urging him to send us reinforcements -- none have arrived. I look to the colonies alone for aid; unless it arrives soon, I shall have to fight the enemy on his own terms. I will, however, do the best I can under the circumstances, and I feel confident that the determined valour and desperate courage, heretofore evinced by my men, will not fail them in the last struggle, and although they may be sacrifieced to the vengeance of a Gothic enemy, the victory will cost the enemy so dear, that it will be worse for him than a defeat. I hope your honorable body will hasten on reinforcements, ammunition, and provisions to our aid, as soon as possible. We have provisions for twenty days for the men we have; our supply of ammunition is limited. At least five hundred pounds of cannon powder, and two hundred rounds of six, nine, twelve, and eighteen pound balls -- ten kegs of rifle powder, and a supply of lead, should be sent to this place without delay, under a sufficient guard.
If these things are promptly sent, and large reinforcements are hastened to this frontier, this neighborhood will be the great and decisive battle ground. The power of Santa Anna is to be met here or in the colonies; we had better meet them here, than to suffer a war of desolation to rage our settlements. A blood-red banner waves from the church of Bexar, and in the camp above us, in token that the war is one of vengeance against rebels; they have declared us as such, and demanded that we should surrender at discretion or this garrison should be put to the sword. Their threats have had no influence on me or my men, but to make all fight with desperation, and that high-souled courage which characterizes the patriot, who is willing to die in defense of his country's liberty and his own honour.
The citizens of this municipality are all our enemies except those who have joined us heretofore; we have but three Mexicans now in the fort; those who have not joined us in this extremity, should be declared public enemies, and their property should aid in paying the expenses of the war.
The bearer of this will give you your honorable body, a statement more in detail, should he escape through the enemy's lines. God and Texas! --
Victory or Death!!
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/213/510476320_b5aa14ec3b.jpg)
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Welcome, Sir Rogers!
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The more time I spent at the Alamo, the more I wanted to take the fight to the enemy.
I was fortunate to walk in the footsteps of great men.
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God and Texas! -- Victory or Death!!
::thumbsup::
And I find it poignant that the last known letter from Travis, 3 days before the fall of the Alamo, was referencing posterity and his son, and makes me think of similar letters written during the American Revolution -
"Take care of my little boy. If the country should be saved, I may make for him a splendid fortune; but if the country be lost and I should perish, he will have nothing but the proud recollection that he is the son of a man who died for his country."
Amen!
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The more time I spent at the Alamo, the more I wanted to take the fight to the enemy.
I was fortunate to walk in the footsteps of great men.
. . . If you build it, Roy will come . . .
Welcome, friend.
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And to think, the Texas public schools are required to teach the revisionist history of the Alamo.
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Perhaps, given the times we are in, and the seemingly insurmountable odds we sometimes face, perhaps in honor of the spirit of 1836, we should all adopt G's avatar!
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and although they [my men] may be sacrifieced to the vengeance of a Gothic enemy, the victory will cost the enemy so dear, that it will be worse for him than a defeat.
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Fellow citizens & compatriots --
I am beseiged, by a thousand or more of the
Mexicans under Santa Anna -- I have sustained
a continual Bombardment & cannonade for 24
hours & have not lost a man -- The enemy has
demanded a surrender at discretion, otherwise,
the garrison are to be put to the sword, if the
fort is taken -- I have answered the demand with
a cannon shot, & our flag still waves proudly from
the walls -- I shall never surrender or retreat.
Then, I call on you in the name of Liberty, of
patriotism, & every thing dear to the American
character, to come to our aid, with all dispatch --
The enemy is receiving reinforcements daily &
will no doubt increase to three or four thousand
in four or five days. If this call is neglected, I am
determined to sustain myself as long as possible
& die like a soldier who never forgets what is due
to his own honor & that of his country --
VICTORY OR DEATH
William Barret Travis
Lt. Col. Comdt.
P.S. The Lord is on our side -- When the enemy
appeared in sight we had not three bushels of
corn -- We have since found in deserted houses
80 or 90 bushels & got into the walls 20 or 30 head
of Beeves --
Travis
http://vanishingamerican.blogspot.com/2007/03/letters-from-alamo.html (http://vanishingamerican.blogspot.com/2007/03/letters-from-alamo.html)
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Nice post, Roy.
I have visited the Alamo many times as well as other historical sites relating to Texas Independance and consider myself somewhat of an amateur historian on the subject (Not an expert by any means). One of my reasons for being so interested in the subject, is that siege in the little mission represents the pivotal event that defines the nature of how our views on Liberty and the views of our North American neighbors (North and South) differ, and also what could have been a much different way of life for Spanish speaking people in the western Hemisphere.
It is difficult to explain what the Alamo was about, without reviewing the context that lead up to it. I have recently been researching a far bloodier battle just south of San Antonio, called the Battle of Medina. It occurred on August 18, 1813. With the bicentenniel of this bloody massacre only two years away, there is renewed interest in why so many Americans died, even soldiers that fought under Geo. Washington took part in what was possibly the second highest one day loss of combat soldiers to occur on North American soil. Hundreds of Americans fought alongside the rebels that year. About 1400 soldiers fought against the Spanish Army at the Battle of Medina, but because of a miscue by a Mexican rebel officer nearly all of them were massacred. There were nearly 400 residents of San Antonio that were executed as well.
When I say renewed interest, I mean a handful of amateurs like myself are digging for new details. The battle shares some similarities to the Alamo in some interesting parallels:
1. Many of the Americans came from parts of the deep south that had experienced land disputes with the Spanish government that resulted in Spanish armies attacking Americans in places like "Western Florida" and parts of modern day Louisiana and when told of the attacks on San Antonio by the residents of the city and how they wished to have an American style constitution, the Americans strongly sympathized.
2. The Americans were invited by the Spanish/Mexican people to defend them and assist them against attack and to liberate them.
3. The attacking Royalist army was sent by a rogue regime whose authority was under dispute and in the midst of open rebellion by a majority of its people. In 1813, the Spanish army that came to attack San Antonio had just left a small city on the Rio Grande, where they beheaded Father Hidalgo and left his head on a spike in the town square. Father Hidalgo is considered the father of the Mexican war of Independance and the Spanish Army considered the rebels in Texas as part of the War for Independance. During the 1836 war, two thirds of Mexico was in rebel hands. I have an actual newspaper from the period describing the massacre of the people of the Mexican city of Zacatecas as Santa Anna crushed opposition en route to Texas.
4. An officer by the name of Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna took part in both the massacre of 1813 and then later used the same atrocities against Travis and his men in 1836, as well as the massacre at Goliad.
5. Both Hispanic rebels and American born Anglos took part in both battles.
6. When the Americans committed to fight alongside the rebels a series of hard fought battles were won that would not have been achieved had the Americans not come to their aid. But, When massive armies from the south arrived, many hispanic rebels switched sides or melted back into the countryside.
7. Just as Simon Bolivar had fought to have an "American style" constitution, so had the Mexican people. In 1824, only 3 years after winning independance, they created the constitution of 1824, which was almost a cut and paste of the masterpiece that Madison, Franklin, Sherman and our American founding philosophers. It was Santa Anna that took over the government, suspended the constitution and started the war that the Alamo was a part of. For that reason, the flag that flew over the Alamo, was emblazoned with "1824".
As the Mexican people celebrated the bicentenniel of their war of independance a year ago, will they in August of 2013 remember the names of Augustus Magee, Samuel_Kemper, or Reuben Ross who fought in 1813 on their behalf so they could share the blessings of Liberty.
Ironically, many of the ancestors of the Spanish rebels of San Antonio now live with those freedoms today, but only because Sam Houston defeated Santa Anna in a swamp just south of the Metropolis that bears his name. The ancestors of Zacatecas, south of the Rio Grande lost that chance, and so did their great great grand children. So now those ancestors gain those freedoms by means that are dangerous, but not nearly as dangerous as those employed by Magee, Kemper, Ross, Travis, Crockett, Bowie, and Houston..... they cross a river and climb a fence.
One can only wonder what might have been for his countrymen, had Santa Anna never been born.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Kemper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Kemper)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Medina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Medina)
http://alamostudies.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=alamohistory (http://alamostudies.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=alamohistory)
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Hey, welcome back TJ!
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That quote by Col travis is on my desktop.
Those heroes of the Alamo knew their fate but knew their duty,too.
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Nice work, TJ.
What really strikes me is that the War for Texas Independence should be used as an example to promote the assimilation of Hispanic-Americans. Instead, it has been seized and bastardized by the anti-American crowd as just another example of America's Imperial History.
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Q : What were Davy Crockett's last words as he peered over the walls of the Alamo ?
A : "Where the hell did all those landscapers come from ?"
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Nice work, TJ.
What really strikes me is that the War for Texas Independence should be used as an example to promote the assimilation of Hispanic-Americans. Instead, it has been seized and bastardized by the anti-American crowd as just another example of America's Imperial History.
Thanks Big Al! That is EXACTLY the message! The defenders of the Alamo were TEXICANS FIRST regardless of where they were born.
"A leader is someone who helps improve the lives of other people or improve the system they live under." ~ Sam Houston
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Well put, TJ!
Good to see ya'.
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(http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/images/zavalaflg2.jpg)
Texans sign the Declaration of Independence
March 2, 1836
Happy Birthday Texas!
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(http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/images/zavalaflg2.jpg)
Texans sign the Declaration of Independence
March 2, 1836
Happy Birthday Texas!
William B.Travis - 200 Years - Alamo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn7G2FGuBgg#)
Happy Birthday to Free Men Fighting For Freedom!
OOORAH Texas!
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Roy, thanks for that.
I've been of the opinion that Sam Houston allowed those men to die.
Not sure if it was cowardice on his part, political gain or a need for martyrs
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Roy, thanks for that.
I've been of the opinion that Sam Houston allowed those men to die.
Not sure if it was cowardice on his part, political gain or a need for martyrs
Avoid judging history. Hindsight today never reveals the moment then.
It was what it was...
By January 17, Houston had begun to question the wisdom of maintaining Neill' s garrison at Bexar. On that date he informed Governor Henry Smith that Col. James Bowie and a company of volunteers had left for San Antonio. Many have cited this letter as proof that Houston ordered the Alamo abandoned. Yet, Houston's words reveal the truth of the matter:
"I have ordered the fortifications in the town of Bexar to be demolished, and, if you should think well of it, I will remove all the cannon and other munitions of war to Gonzales and Copano, blow up the Alamo and abandon the place, as it will be impossible to keep up the Station with volunteers, the sooner I can be authorized the better it will be for the country."
Houston may have wanted to raze the Alamo, but he was clearly requesting Smith's consent. Smith did not "think well of it" and refused to authorize Houston' s proposal.
Committed to death inside the Alamo were 189 known patriots who valued freedom more than life itself. Many, such as the 32 men and boys from Gonzales who made their way through the Mexican lines in answer to Travis's plea for reinforcements, were colonists. Theirs was a fight against Santa Anna's intolerable decrees. Others were volunteers such as David Crockett and his "Tennessee Boys" who owned nothing in Texas, and owed nothing to it. Theirs was a fight against tyranny wherever it might be. A handful were native Texans of Spanish and Mexican descent who suffered under the same injustices as the other colonists.
Now with the ammunition and supplies all but exhausted, yet determined to make a Mexican victory more costly than a defeat, those who rallied to the Texas cause awaited the inevitable.
It came suddenly in the chilly, pre-dawn hours of March 6. With bugles sounding the dreaded "Deguello" (no quarter to the defenders) columns of Mexican soldiers attacked from the north, the east, the south and the west. Twice repulsed by withering musket fire and cannon shot, they concentrated their third attack at the battered north wall.
Travis, with a single shot through his forehead, fell across his cannon. The Mexicans swarmed through the breach and into the plaza. At frightful cost they fought their way to the Long Barrack and blasted its massive doors with cannon shot. Its defenders, asking no quarter and receiving none, were put to death with grapeshot, musket fire and bayonets.
Crockett, using his rifle as a club, fell as the attackers, now joined by reinforcements who stormed the south wall, turned to the chapel. The Texans inside soon suffered the fate of their comrades. Bowie, his pistols emptied, his famous knife bloodied, and his body riddled, died on his cot.
Present in the Alamo were Captain Almeron Dickinson's wife, Susanna, and their 15-month-old daughter, Angelina. After the battle, Santa Anna ordered Mrs. Dickingson, her child, and other noncombatants be spared. Other known survivors were Joe, Travis servant; Gertrudis Navarro, 15, sister by adoption to James Bowie's wife, Ursula; Juana Navarro Alsbury, sister of Gertrudis, and her 18-month-old son, Alijo; Gregorio Esparza's wife Ana, and her four children: Enrique, Francisco, Manuel and Maria de Jesus; Trinidad Saucedo and Petra Gonzales. Another survivor was Lewis "Moses" Rose, who by his own choice left the Alamo on the fifth day of March.
Santa Anna, minimizing his losses which numbered nearly 600, said, "It was but a small affair," and ordered the bodies of the heroes burned. Colonel Juan Almonte, noting the great number of casualties, declared, "Another such victory and we are ruined."
The Texans' smoldering desire for freedom, kindled by the funeral pyres of the Alamo, roared into flames three weeks later at Goliad when Santa Anna coldly ordered the massacre of more than 300 prisoners taken at the Battle of Coleto Creek.
On April 21, forty-six days after the fall of the Alamo, less than 800 angered Texans and American volunteers led by General Sam Houston launched a furious attack on the Mexican army of 1,500 at San Jacinto. Shouting "Remember the Alamo! Remember Goliad!", they completely routed the Mexican army in a matter of minutes, killing six hundred and thirty while losing nine. Santa Anna was captured. Texas was free; a new republic was born.
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Roy, thanks for that info.
I've had a casual (very casual) interest in the Alamo since Fess Parker put on a coon skin cap in the mid-50s.
Just DVRed John Wayne's movie the other night to watch for the umpteenth time.
I still have a hard time with Billy Bob Thornton as Davy Crockett.
There is one movie that's not as famous and can't remember the name. I think Richard Widmark was in it .
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...Just DVRed John Wayne's movie the other night to watch for the umpteenth time...
...There is one movie that's not as famous and can't remember the name. I think Richard Widmark was in it.
One and the same, aren't they?
"The Alamo": Starring Lawrence Harvey, Richard Widmark, John Wayne - directed by John Wayne. (http://www.amazon.com/Alamo-Laurence-Harvey/dp/B00004ZBVE)
Or is it another you're thinking of?
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I found the one I was looking for called "The Last Command"
It had Sterling Hayden as Bowie and Arthur Hunnicut as Crockett.
Supposedly, John Wayne was to produce and direct, but the head of the studio wanted him to star
I only saw a little bit of this one.
Thinking about getting Netfliz.
They may have it
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John Wayne - Davy Crockett's Speech (The Alamo/USA 1960) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odeJXfNsIaQ#)
Republic.
I like the sound of the word.
It means people can live free, talk free, go or come, buy or sell, be drunk or sober, however they choose.
Some words give you a feeling. Republic is one of those words that makes me tight in the throat - the same tightness a man gets when his baby takes his first step or his first baby shaves and makes his first sound as a man. Some words can give you a feeling that makes your heart warm.
Republic is one of those words.
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Hey, welcome back TJ!
Welcome back? This is my first week at this website. You always know where to find me.
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Hey, welcome back TJ!
Welcome back? This is my first week at this website. You always know where to find me.
I was alluding to your prolonged leave of absence from the old site. You were missed.
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Zona roja?
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Zona roja?
¿Dónde viven las prostitutas?
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Quen sabe? El rey del California posiblemente.
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http://www.spanishdict.com/translation (http://www.spanishdict.com/translation)
::cool::
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Hey, welcome back TJ!
Welcome back? This is my first week at this website. You always know where to find me.
I was alluding to your prolonged leave of absence from the old site. You were missed.
Thanks. I've been checking in, but haven't posted in a while because of an extremely busy workload lately. When I signed up here, I got some nice emails from people and so I thought I would take a minute to shoot my mouth off. I hope I can drop in more often. Thanks for the kind words.
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Yeah, bookmarked that one.
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Were you referring to me, Charles?
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Tu, el rey, quen sabe?
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Tu, el rey, quen sabe?
*ahem* "You, the king quen knows?" per the above cited translator.
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Were you referring to me, Charles?
I think he was referring to my crappy translator website.
::unknowncomic::
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Tu, el rey, quen sabe?
*ahem* "You, the king quen knows?" per the above cited translator.
Hi Pan, good to see you again.
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Tu, el rey, quen sabe?
OK, Well I don't tend to go drinking with prostitutes, but if there is a Charlie Sheen type rumor floating around about me, I'm all for it. When I said you know where to find me, it was a line from Rockets old Friday night drinking threads. Those were some fun times all the way back in the Powerline days. Five years flies by. Glad to see you remembered the reference, but I don't get the secret language vibe. Who is Quen?
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Glad you remembered the pub.
Never intended to insinuate you consorted with persons of ill repute.
Quen sabe? = Who knows?
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Tu, el rey, quen sabe?
*ahem* "You, the king quen knows?" per the above cited translator.
Hi Pan, good to see you again.
And I, you!
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Glad you remembered the pub.
Never intended to insinuate you consorted with persons of ill repute.
Quen sabe? = Who knows?
I'd be ever so grateful if you folks could routinely include a translation for us folks that are fluent in only one language. ;)