It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => Politics/Legislation/Elections => Topic started by: trapeze on October 07, 2011, 02:03:20 AM
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Since the field is pretty much set in stone now I think it would be constructive to know how are members are leaning at this point.
Poll will expire in two days. Results will be viewable after poll expires. You may not change your vote so give it some thought.
You may comment however you see fit but I think it would be better to keep your vote to yourself until after the poll expires. After the poll closes feel free to go nuts.
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::popcorn::
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A secret ballot! I like it! It's so American, and so non-unionista!
::whoohoo::
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Okay, five of you have voted. Let's get the rest of you on the record. I will release the results early if the participation is near complete.
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How can anyone participate in a political forum and not vote?
Being Friday and also many folks come by once a day maybe
cut time a little slack to allow them to vote. If one does not
vote here can he be expected to vote in the election?
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No "none of the above option"?
I did vote earlier and considered that we were talking primary.
When the results are in, I'll disclose who and why
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OK, I have a few minutes between flights so I voted. Not giving anything away but I'm betting that mine will be a sole vote. I'll explain later.
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Ten members have voted as of right now. If we can get five or six more I will open the poll results early.
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No "none of the above option"?
I did vote earlier and considered that we were talking primary.
When the results are in, I'll disclose who and why
"None of the above" seemed inappropriate given that no one else is likely to enter the primary at this point.
Not participating in the poll would work about the same way, I expect.
We have been through quite a few moronic debates, witnessed gaffes, listened to policy statements and had time to get a feel for the candidates. You can always change your mind later. I will do another poll next month so if things change you can throw your support in another direction at that point.
This poll will be "un-stickyed" after the poll is concluded.
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We've got a lot of non participants.
ETA:
Thingy says we have 20 members online right now.
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OK I just got here for this.
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If one does not vote here can he be expected to vote in the election?
What?
Because there's a difference between an election and a meaningless internet poll.
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If one does not vote here can he be expected to vote in the election?
What?
Because there's a difference between an election and a meaningless internet poll.
How dare you? This is no meaningless internet poll, this is an official IAL members poll,
highly prized and extremely significant.
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If one does not vote here can he be expected to vote in the election?
What?
Because there's a difference between an election and a meaningless internet poll.
How dare you? This is no meaningless internet poll, this is an official IAL members poll,
highly prized and extremely significant.
::laughonfloor::
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The official audited vote totals of this poll will be turned over to the RNC with a list of our demands.
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Anyone ... ANYONE ... who can defeat Stymie !
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If one does not vote here can he be expected to vote in the election?
What?
Because there's a difference between an election and a meaningless internet poll.
How dare you? This is no meaningless internet poll, this is an official IAL members poll,
highly prized and extremely significant.
Besides which it's designed to draw you out into the open... ::dueling::
Seriously, I know that I am assessing and reassessing as we go forward and know that, although we have had candidate discussions, I for one am interested to see how our opinions are evolving.
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Well who won?? ::thinking::
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There's not twenty people at this whole forum that's paid their poll tax. They can't vote. ::rockets::
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Cain literally 9 to 1 over Bachmann, Gingrich and Paul (someone needs to fess up over that one).
9 to 2 over Perry.
Okay, this was pretty much the way that I expected it would be. Just wanted to know.
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Cain literally 9 to 1 over Bachmann, Gingrich and Paul (someone needs to fess up over that one).
9 to 2 over Perry.
Okay, this was pretty much the way that I expected it would be. Just wanted to know.
All is well in the kingdom.
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Sorry I didn't make it for the poll. Been kind of tied up; parental units are visiting.
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Our results aren't substantially different from what you will find at the HotAir poll. (http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/08/hot-air-candidate-survey-results-post-palinpost-christie-edition/) The only difference that I noted was that the HotAir poll had Romney as a third place factor slightly behind Perry. Cain won that poll in a walk with 46% of the vote.
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Cain literally 9 to 1 over Bachmann, Gingrich and Paul (someone needs to fess up over that one).
I confess! You beat it out of me!
::puke::
The whole field makes me sick
I did say above that I would explain my vote.
The words "in the primary" were key to my vote.
I really don't like any of them. Because of that, Paul was my protest vote.
Romney, Perry, Gingrich, Huntsman and Santorum are no out of the gate.
Not voting for them no how. I don't think Bachmann had what it took out of the gate. Liked her until she started with retarded children because of Gardasil with out proof and kept it up. And blew up in other ways
Paul has no chance.He'll get 8-10% of the vote.
I am not a libertarian but a conservative with some libertarian leanings
That doesn't make me a Paul supporter
I admire Cain's accomplishments and business acumen.
But he started with the race card. And the more I know about him, not as sure about him. Not crazy about 9-9-9
I would vote for him, Bachmann or even Paul if they were the nominee.
No one else.
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Okay, well this at least gives us a marker.
We can try it again in a few weeks.
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I held out hope that Palin was going to enter, even though I could see the problems that was likely to present. In her absence from the actual announced candidates, I thought Bachmann was mounting a serious campaign in the same mold. As much as I appreciate her in the House, she blew her credibility with me as a Presidential candidate, beginning with a string of stupid statements, ending with the Gardisil/retard shark-jumping.
Next in line for me was Perry, as I hoped his executive record combined with the hype would add up to an acceptably conservative nominee. He has shown himself to be of lesser stock than I had hoped. He could still turn it around, but based on what I've seen so far, I am thoroughly unimpressed, and not hopeful that he could beat Obama.
Now I'm looking at Cain. He's had a foot-in-mouth problem. He's had a few deer in the headlines moments. But his debate performances have been strong. He's seemed to have an ability to convincingly wiggle out of his few verbal gaffes. He's incredibly likable. And he seems to be getting better - peaking at the right time.
If he continues on his current trajectory, I think he could be the nominee. I think he would devastate Obama head-to-head like no other candidate. Right now, he's my choice until something happens to move me off him.
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He's exceeding the learning curve, he's got to plateau sometime.
I want to see more debates from them and some hardball interviews.
Saw Santorum, does it matter, and it was softball city.
In my mind it's Cain or Perry, the others serve to give them opportunity to rise or fall.
today
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He's exceeding the learning curve, he's got to plateau sometime.
I want to see more debates from them and some hardball interviews.
Saw Santorum, does it matter, and it was softball city.
In my mind it's Cain or Perry, the others serve to give them opportunity to rise or fall.
today
Perry shot himself in the foot with immigration with me. He was doing fine till he turned into Graham/McCain in one feld swoop.
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That baffles me. His is the best plan for stopping illegal immigration put forward.
Texas has less problems with illegal immigration than any other border state and
it's border is longer than all the others put together. Not only that, all trade and
major land travel routes cross the Texas, Mexico border. California is on the border
with Baja, got fish? And Arizona has one highway on the western side of the Sierra's
which is coastal, no farm, ranch, commerce, nada.
I've not decided between the two, Cain or Perry, but there is no issue whether he
understands and will seal the border as president. It's boots on the ground, and
air support (drones and helicopters).
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OK, so analysis time here. BTW: Thanks to Trap for setting this up and prompting the discussion.
To start with, I've always been what I like to think as a conservative. Didn't begin as a lib or moderate, see the light, and cross over. I've never not voted for a Republican. No, wait....that's not accurate. I've never voted for a dhimmicrat. Ever. I didn't vote for Ford - I didn't vote. I've voted pubbie in every other race.
So it is an ordeal for me to understand Rick Perry. He was a dhimmicrat for cripes sake! Now he's running as a Republican and says that he is conservative, but I have a hard time believing it. So I have to look at him as more of a populist of I can't look at him at all. I'll come back to him later.
In making my decision I tried to adhere to the maxim of choosing the most conservative that is winnable. Then I can decide if I will pull the lever for whomever makes it to the general. The conservative litmus test I break down into two halves: is he/she conservative by general standards, and is he/she conservative to me. The winnable part is entirely subjective. I will offer mine and then I will look forward to your opinions.
So now let's handicap them:
Candidate | Gen-Con | Me-con | Winnable | Points
Bachmann Y Y N 2
Huntsman N N N 0
Romney Y N Y 2
Cain Y Y Y 3
Perry Y N Y 2
Johnson N N N 0
Gingrich Y Y Y 3
Santorum Y Y N 2
Paul Y N N 1
And now let me offer thumbnails.
Huntsman and Johnson? Sorry, non-starters.
Paul? I think he's a borderline loony.
Of the rest, there are two distinct character types, the citizen statesman and the professional politician. Santorum, Cain, and even Bachmann are citizen statesmen. Gingrich, Perry and Romney are professional politicians. Each type has their strengths and their weaknesses (as a type). After a bunch of pros F'ing up the works and telling us what to do (instead of the other way around) the idea of a citizen statesman is refreshing. But, even if they were to prevail, would they be able to maintain that executive position as a CS - able to pull together the talent and expertise to perform all the tasks required of them?
The pros certainly could, but what would it look like and would it bear any resemblance to the sort of Republican administration I was hoping for?
At this time I've narrowed my choices down to two Cain and Gingrich. Both are true conservatives. Both are smart as a whip. One (Cain) is untested as a political powerbroker. The other (Gingrich) has a checkered past. Both are demonstrated leaders, with a slight nod to Gingrich because he could more easily navigate the DC shark-infested waters.
Going into this I presumed that Cain would be the popular favorite based on his recent performances. I guessed that Perry would show, and guessed that mine would be the only vote for Gingrich. I recognize that he has soured many conservatives (but honestly - haven't they all tripped up a time or two?!).
My tip of the hat for Primary consideration goes to Newt Gingrich because of his greater practical experience.
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that was interesting, Soup.
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That baffles me. His is the best plan for stopping illegal immigration put forward.
Texas has less problems with illegal immigration than any other border state and
it's border is longer than all the others put together. Not only that, all trade and
major land travel routes cross the Texas, Mexico border. California is on the border
with Baja, got fish? And Arizona has one highway on the western side of the Sierra's
which is coastal, no farm, ranch, commerce, nada.
I've not decided between the two, Cain or Perry, but there is no issue whether he
understands and will seal the border as president. It's boots on the ground, and
air support (drones and helicopters).
The no heart comment was the living end.
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That was the stupidist thing he could have said.
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After fighting so hard against GW Bush and McCain/Graham trying to push through amnesty, it is not a mystery that conservatives are not willing to consider a nominee who appears to be even remotely cut from the same cloth. I know I'm not.
I think Perry's elaboration in the days after the disastrous debate performance and the "you have no heart" comment is worth at least considering. I'm not beyond hearing someone out, unless they prove themselves unworthy of hearing, which I don't think Perry has done. But even considering his walkback, he cannot put the comment back in the bottle. It's too big an issue. He's got to live with it, try to explain his position better, and hope he can overcome the mistrust he engendered with those poorly chosen words.
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Soes Perry not base his "tuition for illegals" on his state's Mexican-border situation? Yes; he stated as much. Does not Jan Brewer, AZ's governor have much the same situation on a smaller scale? Again, yes, yet did AZ go for in-state tuition for illegals? As I recall, no; correct me if I'm wrong.
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I seem to recall he was also unenthusiastic about Arizona's SB 1070. And maybe he didn't actually say this, but wasn't there some comment to the effect of "because the way his name sounds"? The implication being something like this: "the replacement of Jones, Smith, and Johnson with Garcia, Hernandez, and Rodriguez is just the way it is and what's the big deal anyway?" I just get too much of a Bush-type vibe from Perry.
Conservatism has already ceded so much ground I sometimes wonder if political success is really even possible anymore. The Establishment has successfully peddled the "this isn't the hill to die on" argument so many damn times that we're about out of hills. Case in point is this very subject, illegal immigration. What really needs to be said is that it's a mass invasion of people useful only as virtual slave labor and incipient Democrats, and the reason nothing has been done to stop it is that there are powerful entities vested in both those uses. But no one would ever come even close to making a statement like that. Why are we left with having to pussyfoot around issues that threaten to destroy America as we have always known it? Because some jackasses in Brooks Bros. suits and Colgate smiles said these weren't the hills worth dying on.
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Soes Perry not base his "tuition for illegals" on his state's Mexican-border situation? Yes; he stated as much. Does not Jan Brewer, AZ's governor have much the same situation on a smaller scale? Again, yes, yet did AZ go for in-state tuition for illegals? As I recall, no; correct me if I'm wrong.
And Az is cartel capitol and Phoenix is kidnap capitol of the world.
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To be fair to Brewer she had to start unravelling a lot fo the stuff Nappy Janet instituted over her many (sad) years as Governor. That's a lot of clean up, and Brewer has made a lot of progress and this latest attempt was a common sense effort modeled upon federal statutes that The Regime chooses not to enforce.
You want a lot of mindless border violence, Perry's Texas can hold its own...Brownsville, Laredo...
Perry could make huge waves on the illegal immigrant and border crime front if he had half the spine Brewer has!
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Bah, I'm up in the mountains at the cabin on vacation and missed this poll. On the phone here so my reasons I won't delve into deeply.
But if the poll were open I would have voted for Cain.
Bachmann would be my second choice. Beyond those two I have to hold my nose and be forced to vote for any of the others.
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This website provides crime statistics for 8772 cities and metropolitan areas in the United States of America. It is based on official 2008 FBI Crime Statistics downloaded from Data.gov. With this website, you can find out which US cities are safest, and which ones are most dangerous (and everything in between). Feel free to browse this site; you might be surprised what you find out!
... based on official 2008 FBI Crime Statistics downloaded from Data.gov.
http://crime-statistics.com/brownsville-texas.htm (http://crime-statistics.com/brownsville-texas.htm)
Population: 176893
Total Violent Crimes: 634
Violent Crimes Per 100,000 Residents: 358
Homicides: 4
Rapes: 26
Robberies: 173
Aggravated Assaults: 431
Total Property Crimes: 10139
Property Crimes Per 100,000 Residents: 5732
Burglary: 1590
Larceny-Theft: 8205
Motor Vehicle Theft: 344
Arson: 38
Safety Rating: Safe
http://crime-statistics.com/laredo-texas.htm (http://crime-statistics.com/laredo-texas.htm)
Population: 222870
Total Violent Crimes: 1357
Violent Crimes Per 100,000 Residents: 609
Homicides: 10
Rapes: 78
Robberies: 311
Aggravated Assaults: 958
Total Property Crimes: 14340
Property Crimes Per 100,000 Residents: 6434
Burglary: 2091
Larceny-Theft: 10522
Motor Vehicle Theft: 1727
Arson: 43
Safety Rating: Moderate
http://crime-statistics.com/phoenix-arizona.htm (http://crime-statistics.com/phoenix-arizona.htm)
Population: 1585838
Total Violent Crimes: 10465
Violent Crimes Per 100,000 Residents: 660
Homicides: 167
Rapes: 481
Robberies: 4825
Aggravated Assaults: 4992
Total Property Crimes: 82689
Property Crimes Per 100,000 Residents: 5214
Burglary: 18783
Larceny-Theft: 48685
Motor Vehicle Theft: 15221
Arson: 473
Safety Rating: Moderate
http://crime-statistics.com/san-antonio-texas.htm (http://crime-statistics.com/san-antonio-texas.htm)
Population: 1351244
Total Violent Crimes: 9699
Violent Crimes Per 100,000 Residents: 718
Homicides: 116
Rapes: 424
Robberies: 2743
Aggravated Assaults: 6416
Total Property Crimes: 97564
Property Crimes Per 100,000 Residents: 7220
Burglary: 18908
Larceny-Theft: 70651
Motor Vehicle Theft: 8005
Arson: 521
Safety Rating: Moderate
http://crime-statistics.com/omaha-nebraska.htm (http://crime-statistics.com/omaha-nebraska.htm)
Population: 437238
Total Violent Crimes: 2648
Violent Crimes Per 100,000 Residents: 606
Homicides: 44
Rapes: 180
Robberies: 949
Aggravated Assaults: 1475
Total Property Crimes: 18792
Property Crimes Per 100,000 Residents: 4298
Burglary: 3175
Larceny-Theft: 12892
Motor Vehicle Theft: 2725
Arson: 0
Safety Rating: Moderate
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My town doesn't make the list, but it is noteworthy that the entirety of Minnesota with the exception of the city of Minneapolis and the first-ring village of Hilltop are considered "Safe". Minneapolis and Hilltop are considered "Moderate".
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That's why they say. "Minnesota nice".
Cool, no pun intended.
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Huh? Laredo is safer than Minneapolis?
They've gotta be kidding me?
Does that tool Rybak know this?
::rolllaughing::
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It's not bad north of the river.
If there is any scooby do it's self contained
and does not spill into the civil community.
You just don't go across for Huevos Rancheros no mas.
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It's not bad north of the river.
If there is any scooby do it's self contained
and does not spill into the civil community.
You just don't go across for Huevos Rancheros no mas.
::hysterical::
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Well darn. Looks like I missed the poll - ah well. If I'd have been here for it I'd have voted for Herman Cain. Looks like he didn't need my vote for this poll anyway. ::thumbsup::