It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => Faith & Family => Topic started by: Weisshaupt on February 13, 2012, 10:47:17 AM
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E.J. Dionne is happy with the compromise (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/contraception-and-the-cost-of-culture-wars/2012/02/10/gIQAHTdV9Q_story.html?wprss=rss_opinions)
For liberals who sided with the church in this controversy, the most vexing problem with the original exemption on contraception is that it defined “religious” so narrowly that the reality that these organizations go out of their way to serve non-Catholics was held against them. Their Gospel-inspired work was defined as non-religious. This violated the very essence of Christian charity and the church’s social justice imperatives.
Some conservative Catholics still insist that the relief from regulation that Obama offered is not enough. I hope they reconsider, especially since the Catholic service providers most affected by the revised rule welcomed it. What bothers liberal Catholics about the arguments advanced by some of our conservative friends is that the Catholic right seems so eager to focus the church’s witness to the world on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research and, now, perhaps, contraception that they would effectively, if not necessarily intentionally, relegate the church’s social justice work and teaching to second-class status.
Liberals are always happy with any decison that makes others pay for their convictions, so of course the decision is "welcomed." After all, instead of the church now paying for the coverage directly, everyone else gets to pay as well as the church!
After all, charity isn't a religious subject.Its a duty. One that can be imposed upon you at gunpoint by the government. Oh, and social justice is in the bible and an imperative of th Catholic church. You can look it up.
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Liberal Catholics were proud to stand with conservatives in defending the church’s religious liberty rights in carrying out its social and charitable mission. Now, we’d ask conservatives to consider that what makes the Gospel so compelling — especially for the young, many of whom are leaving the church — is the central role it assigns to our responsibilities to act on behalf of the needy, the left-out and the abandoned.
As far as I know the Catholic Church has taken care of the needy, the left-out and the abandoned for centuries...that hasn't stop the young and everybody else from leaving the church since the mid to late 20th century.
Guys like this strike me as people who want to cling to the Church's charity as proof of their Catholic "ness" all the while trashing whatever else they disagree with. They use it as cover for their failure to follow what the church teaches -- generally anything related to sex.
When I was a kid my dad said to me he didn't care what religion someone was but he believed they should follow the religion they said they were are part of--if you're a Baptist be a Baptist, a Catholic then act as one, etc. It drove him nuts to listen to someone go on and on about their disagreements with the religion they claimed to follow. He couldn't understand not seeking out a more hospitable faith.
The Catholic Church has certain tenets that as far as I understand haven't changed so I don't get people like Pelosi and this guy who stick around. What's in it for them?
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Organizations such as Catholic Charities, the Catholic Health Association, the Catholic Campaign for Human Development and Catholic Relief Services make the words of Jesus come alive every day.
Bullsh*t. These are the marxists responsible for such as this:
... and the church’s social justice imperatives.
Neither the Catholic church or the Catholic religion has any such thing; the prescriptions for charity are incumbent upon individuals. Salvation is not a group activity.
Further, the Left has done quite the job of readjusting the premise and focus to their preference and benefit; the Church's objection to Duh Wun's proclamation is not specific to contraception or abortion, it is to the control imposed on it in the practice and direction of Catholicism. This cannot be repeated often enough.
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Salvation is not a group activity.
I am gonna steal and use that.
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Salvation is not a group activity.
I am gonna steal and use that.
Go right ahead; I stole it from Beck.
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American Catholicism’s Pact With the Devil
(http://ricochet.com/main-feed/American-Catholicism-s-Pact-With-the-Devil) Paul A. Rahe
You have to hand it to Barack Obama. He has unmasked in the most thoroughgoing way the despotic propensities of the administrative entitlements state and of the Democratic Party. And now he has done something similar to the hierarchy of the American Catholic Church.
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American Catholicism’s Pact With the Devil
(http://ricochet.com/main-feed/American-Catholicism-s-Pact-With-the-Devil) Paul A. Rahe
You have to hand it to Barack Obama. He has unmasked in the most thoroughgoing way the despotic propensities of the administrative entitlements state and of the Democratic Party. And now he has done something similar to the hierarchy of the American Catholic Church.
Liberal Catholics generally are not real Catholics. Observant Catholics who actually live out the faith tend to be Conservative, while those who give it lip service but defy the Church's teachings tend to be Liberals
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I call those latter ones apostates, or the old term "cafeteria Catholics", I've known many, but the phenomenon is certainly not limited to just that one denomination, I've known many in many.
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I call those latter ones apostates, or the old term "cafeteria Catholics", I've known many, but the phenomenon is certainly not limited to just that one denomination, I've known many in many.
Apostate is a bit strong. An apostate would be someone who just outright denounces Christ and the Christian faith.
In our jargon, "heretic" might be more correct. For us, "heresy" is the post-baptismal denial of any teaching which must be believed. So if there is an established doctrinal teaching which is a part of the faith and a Catholic says they don't believe it, that is "heresy", according to the Catechism.
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Out of curiosity, where would you place Nancy Pelosi?
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I think Paul used the terms apostate and apostasy in describing wayward churches in the early years. We say churches, they were not the ornate heavily ritualistic contrivances we've come to know, more akin to open loosely structured revival meetings if anything, something we should get back to IMO, but that's a whole nother story. Point being, those churches that strayed from common belief could be described as apostate, they still declare some common beliefs but adopted new notions (or recycled old pagan ones) and interwove the two. Sound familiar? The ELCA recently went through this. I would term heresy to isolate specific acts, compile enough acts of rebellion against common beliefs and I think it can accurately be called apostasy. If a church does not punish wayward members from heresy, then they are condoning it, accumulate the disparate parts and I think you wind up with a majority apostate congregation. Perhaps I am harsh, I am no saint myself, but that is the way I see it. I am no harder on others than I am with myself, probably even more harsh with myself.
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The very idea that E.J. Dionne is a spokesman for Jesus is laughable at best .
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Out of curiosity, where would you place Nancy Pelosi?
In jail! LOL.
But seriously: She has earned excommunication. The Church is loathe to excommunicate people these days, but in her case, having promoted ant-Catholic positions from a public position for decades despite repeated admonitions, she has earned it. I have no clue why the Bishop does not give her the heave-ho.
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Politics , of course .
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Yeah, a lot of adults are like children, they see prominent people getting a free pass and they think they've earned one too. I'm sure we've all been guilty of that at one point or another, more reason why a firmer tone should be taken IMO.
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Out of curiosity, where would you place Nancy Pelosi?
In jail! LOL.
But seriously: She has earned excommunication. The Church is loathe to excommunicate people these days, but in her case, having promoted ant-Catholic positions from a public position for decades despite repeated admonitions, she has earned it. I have no clue why the Bishop does not give her the heave-ho.
Cowardice. Many in the Church hierarchy do not do their duty because it's haaaaarrd; there will be blowback, pushback, retaliation and ... bad things will be said about them. That's just the ones that actually believe in the teachings. As with all institutions, when the leaders do not perform their proper duties, it is UNsanity to believe anyone else will.
Catholic Churches all over the country received "the letter" to read to their congregations. The priest conducting a service at the local church did ... after his sermon, and with no further comment, when his sermon should have been the issue.
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It's why denominational migrations have occur ed. Those happy with things stay, those not, leave. And this is not positive migration, people are leaving because their church left their principles and doctrine behind, all in the name of being "current" and "relevant, they didn't leave because the principles and doctrine were as advertised.
I was baptised Catholic and raised Episcopal, it was a compromise my parents made as my father was Catholic and my mother was Presbyterian. We left the Episcopals behind in the 80's when they contracted the populist liberal virus and joined the ELCA. Our church then left the ELCA and joined the ARC family because the ELCA caught the virus (remember the "freak" tornado that hit Minneapolis back in August of 2009 I think it was? Knocked the steeple off the ELCA church on the very day the leaders were allowing practicing homosexuals into the ranks!) so our church left.
Decisions have consequences/reality is not an option.
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We must resist!
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/rationing_our_rights.html (http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/rationing_our_rights.html)
::thumbsup::
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This is pretty spot on too, and IMO nails the liberal game plan dead on.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/beware_the_obamacare_win-win.html (http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/beware_the_obamacare_win-win.html)
Liberty loving people only have one option, just one - kill ObamaCare entirely, period.
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Hah. I just got done reading both of those pieces, Libertas.
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Hah. I just got done reading both of those pieces, Libertas.
The National Archives saluted the Fourth of July in 2010 with a breathless announcement. Just four months after Vice President Joe Biden hailed the signing of historic health care legislation as a "big [expletive deleted] deal," the folks at the Archives told us that they had discovered a previously unnoticed correction in an early Thomas Jefferson draft of the Declaration of Independence. Young Mr. Jefferson had written the word "Subjects." Then he struck that word and penned the word "Citizens."
The National Archives informed us meaningfully that this was the first time in American history that we were so called -- Citizens. Will future archivists be able to pinpoint the signing of ObamaCare as that moment in time when we became Subjects once again?
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Subject! Over my dead body!
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IMO, given Obama's past and proclivities, the attack on the largest Christian Church and its principles is NOT a mistake and is NOT surprising!
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28 (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28)
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And he sends a General to a mosque in DC to apologize - yet again - to the 'slims there for the koran burnings.
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::cussing::
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Obama Regime's "line in the sand".
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/28/hhs-ruling-holder-vows-court-battle-over-contraception-mandate/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/28/hhs-ruling-holder-vows-court-battle-over-contraception-mandate/)
We know why they are going to the mat hard over this, the slippery slope will get greased and made fully verticle for all manner of intrusion if this crap is allowed to stand.
Restistance is mandatory if Liberty means anything!
ObamaCare and all its ugly offspring must be eliminated!
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bring it on.....
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Out of curiosity, where would you place Nancy Pelosi?
In jail! LOL.
But seriously: She has earned excommunication. The Church is loathe to excommunicate people these days, but in her case, having promoted ant-Catholic positions from a public position for decades despite repeated admonitions, she has earned it. I have no clue why the Bishop does not give her the heave-ho.
Cowardice. ......................
No, not cowardice.
Here is the answer, given by one of the smartest guys there is with regards to Catholicism:
>> http://jimmyakin.com/2012/02/why-dont-bishops-excommunicate-bad-politicians-autistic-children-at-mass-female-pope-planned-parenthood-and-more.html (http://jimmyakin.com/2012/02/why-dont-bishops-excommunicate-bad-politicians-autistic-children-at-mass-female-pope-planned-parenthood-and-more.html)
There is an audio clip. I am not quite sure where on the clip the answer is.
::thumbsup::