It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => Military News/Veterans => Topic started by: Glock32 on August 05, 2012, 01:56:52 PM
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Found this linked at Ann Barnhardt's site. They do continue to broadcast their assumptions and their intentions, classifying military veterans and constitutionalists as potential domestic terrorists, and now brainstorming papers on Tea Party extremists hypothetically taking over the town of Darlington, SC. I guess picking that place conveniently gave them an opportunity to use the neo-confederate brush as well.
Because Ann's posts eventually roll off from her site, I am quoting it here:
I tried to tweet this but the website in question, SmallWarsJournal.com , causes all tweets to go to the home page. Please spread and repost this. It needs to be seen by as many people as possible. Here's the link:
Full Spectrum Operations in the Homeland: A “Vision” of the Future
(http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/full-spectrum-operations-in-the-homeland-a-%E2%80%9Cvision%E2%80%9D-of-the-future)
This isn't some wild bee-ess from some Alex Jones site. This is the real deal. The author is a retired Colonel currently on staff at Ft. Leavenworth, which is the hub of all flag officer advanced education and indoctrination. Ft. Leavenworth is not called "the Little Pentagon" for nothing.
The piece is lengthy, but worth the read. It is basically war gaming how the United States military would be deployed to put down a "Tea Party insurgency". Some choice quotes:
Under present law, which initially stemmed from bad feelings about Reconstruction, the military’s domestic role is highly circumscribed. In the situation we lay out below, even though the governor refuses to seek federal help to quell the uprising (the usual channel for military assistance), the Constitution allows the president broad leeway in times of insurrection.
Coupled with a gradual build-up of federal forces in the local area, all covered by the media, the effect of this pressure will compound over time and quite possibly cause doubt about the correctness of the events in Darlington in the minds of its’ citizens and the insurrectionists who control the town...
The design of this plan to restore the rule of law to Darlington will include information/influence operations designed to present a picture of the federal response and the inevitable defeat of the insurrection.
Combat units will conduct overt Show of Force operations to remind the insurrectionists they are now facing professional military forces, with all the training and equipment that implies...
A focus on the humanitarian aspect of the effort will be politically more palatable for the state and local officials. Federal forces continue to tighten the noose as troops seize and secure power and water stations, radio and TV stations, and hospitals.
and this from the comment thread, which is every bit as interesting as the article itself:
A note of caution to those who have taken offense to the Tea Party- disenfranchised white males is a reality. The more comments we post on here taking offense to the scenario show the public what shade our professional military truly has. The Black Panthers and Nation of Islam have been marginalized and will never gain traction because of their idiocy. The Tea Party and potential fundamentalist groups who follow it will have the resources to make things caustic.
Tin foil hat territory? Can you even tell anymore? At this point I believe treachery is the default position of all government entities.
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We get new CIC we get new flag officers.
Clinton was so bad one committed suicide.
We get new CIC we get new flag officers.
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Any officer even thinking of implementing action against citizens of the United States, especially citzens wanting to end the willful destruction of the principles upon which this nation was founded as expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights adopted with the Constition, is expressing disdain of our principles and Constitution and is therefor in league with statists who wish to use the military to usher in an age of despotism. As such any officer and any who would following those orders are in violation of their oaths of service and it is right that they should be removed.
The first order of business in a new administration should be a directive ordering any such considerations to use active military forces against the citizens of the United States to cease and for any proponets of the same to resign their commisions and face administrative discharge. Each member on active duty and in the reserves should be given a pocketbook copy of the Declaration and Constitution and ordered to carry it on their person.
If this is not checked the military will cross a Rubicon that cannot be taken back. They do not want to go there, period. We do not want to become the next Evil Empire.
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I have a feeling that many of the line troops would not follow such orders as they would conflict with the Constitution and Bill of Rights (not to mention their own ideas of right and wrong).
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I have a feeling that many of the line troops would not follow such orders as they would conflict with the Constitution and Bill of Rights (not to mention their own ideas of right and wrong).
I wish I believed so, but I do not. They will confiscate guns, round up and arrest, and fire on us. Not all, but enough so the hesitant ones will find themselves between a rock and a hard place and in the minority.
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I have a feeling that many of the line troops would not follow such orders as they would conflict with the Constitution and Bill of Rights (not to mention their own ideas of right and wrong).
I wish I believed so, but I do not. They will confiscate guns, round up and arrest, and fire on us. Not all, but enough so the hesitant ones will find themselves between a rock and a hard place and in the minority.
I have the same concern, and the same opinion. There are some good comments over at Free Republic about this. In particular this one from somebody named Steel Wolf articulated what we're concerned about:
How many 500 yard scoped deer rifles on up exist in private hands in the USA? Even Hitler would not attack Switzerland.
I don't disagree with what you're saying at all, and you've very articulately pointed out before how novel such a fight would be in world history. Still, the biggest problem we face, bar none, is the pairing of rising collectivist ambition with the inability of the modern military to properly understand or win wars. That's the kind of stuff that tragic miscalculations are made of.
Here's my concern. The left wants a fight. Specifically, they want a fight between the uniformed U.S. security forces (aka the center right) against the TEA Party/Constitutionalists/patriots (aka the far right).
The left doesn't have an army of its own, so their operational concept is to get the organs of the state to fight for them. They sit comfortably behind the flag, while making the actual patriots into public enemies. Rhetorically, it all works for them. The evil conservatives are vanquished, the left doesn't need to spill any blood, and the institutions that many conservatives cherish (military and law enforcement) are the ones that did the deed.
Fact of the matter is, the left has no army and really can't get one. They need a state-versus-patriot fight because there's no equivalent on the left. Just zero liability voters who expect to get paid in exchange for their support. They have needs and demands, true, but they're no pool of warriors ready to be tapped. That job will need to be outsourced.
The security structure in this country isn't leftist by any means, but there's lots of people with mortgages to pay and mouths to feed. They may be center right politically, but they'll do what they're told in the short run if the reason is marginally plausible. And that's the danger. The forces on the left that want the fight also want it to be over quickly, because it needs to be. They don't realize that realistically, once it starts, it could turn into Afghanistan in every single state. Even our own planners didn't realize that Afghanistan was going to turn into Afghanistan. Ditto Iraq. And at the higher levels, some of them are advising the same leftist powers-that-be on military and civil strategies like this.
Sadly, the left wants the fight so badly, and on paper they may think that the fight will be as easy as following the doctrine laid out by the nice men from the War College, but that kind of fight bedeviled us for a decade in the sandbox. It would be a thousand times worse here. It's that lack of understanding what they'd be unleashing that worries me more than anything. At least Hitler feared the Swiss for the right reasons. He may have been a fool in a number of ways, but he learned some hard lessons in WWI up close and personally. I really wonder if the left comprehends what kind of fire they're playing with.
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I have a feeling that many of the line troops would not follow such orders as they would conflict with the Constitution and Bill of Rights (not to mention their own ideas of right and wrong).
I wish I believed so, but I do not. They will confiscate guns, round up and arrest, and fire on us. Not all, but enough so the hesitant ones will find themselves between a rock and a hard place and in the minority.
A lot of the police and military forces are like us-- awake. Even in the disaster scenario that was Katrina some units stood down and refused to confiscate weapons, and that was with a (pretend) conservative as President and before any of this Obama crap. I expect some units will follow orders, but that just as many will not. They risk splintering the military with such a move. Not to mention "putting down an insurrection" is going to result in lots of video footage of American men, women and children being shot at by the military for the offense of declaring what is already patently obvious - the Federal government is illegitimate, and has demonstrated in a train of abuses that they intend to subjugate us under a despotic system ( this event is further evidence) and if Romney is in charge when this goes on, the lapdog media won't be able to help themselves but cover it, and spin it to make Romney look bad - because ultimately those useful idiots won't realize what the event means, till they are hauled away and shot for covering it.
They may intend to try this, and they are dumb enough and disconnected enough from reality to think its a good idea, but they ARE disconnected from reality. If 1/2 of the military revolts, or stages a Coup, they will be in serious trouble. Not to mention all of the FORMER military who are already among the citizenry who can help train and lead. The idea that a Tea Party insurrection in a town is NOT being lead by such individuals is ludicrous. That there won't be a trained militia at the heart of it is ludicrous. The idea that a show of force would make such people back down shows how disconnected from reality this plan is. They think they will be fighting regular Civilians - the normal sheep that pass for people . They won't be. It will be bloody and messy, and battle lines will be drawn instantly all over the country.
I don't doubt that these morons want this as a way of getting rid of us bitter clingers, but they assume we are cowards because they are. My liberal neighbors won't have the stomach for it, because it will make it damn obvious they are on the side doing the slaughtering - they don't think "haters" like us have rights, but they will probably balk at the killing of women and children. And if they don't, they won't be doing it very long. They have no idea have pissed we are, how very little regard we have for them, and how very, very, little mercy they will be shown.
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The left doesn't have an army of its own, so their operational concept is to get the organs of the state to fight for them. They sit comfortably behind the flag, while making the actual patriots into public enemies. Rhetorically, it all works for them. The evil conservatives are vanquished, the left doesn't need to spill any blood, and the institutions that many conservatives cherish (military and law enforcement) are the ones that did the deed.Fact of the matter is, the left has no army and really can't get one. They need a state-versus-patriot fight because there's no equivalent on the left. Just zero liability voters who expect to get paid in exchange for their support. They have needs and demands, true, but they're no pool of warriors ready to be tapped. That job will need to be outsourced.
That is right on point. This won't be over "quickly" unless they pull out the biological, chemicals or nuke weapons. And they are the ones on the timetable. They can't pay anyone, much less the police or the military, once the dollar collapses - unless they pay them in rape and pillage and power. Obviously there will be takers for that, but no where near the forces they have now. And if even 1% of Americans revolt, that is 30 MILLION people to kill. They have to move before the collapse. They have no choice.
We can just disobey and wait for them to come to us. The visuals of a family being killed, including children, because that family wouldn't buy insurance, or weren't following some inane farming regulation, isn't going to play well. Storming a hospital and arresting all of the doctors and stranding their patients without care because the hospital refuses to cover birth control isn't going to play well either. The Democratic base is based on ego - the firm belief they are righteous and good - And Romney is evil because, after he left Bain, a Steel plant was shut down. The average useful idiot "Hope N Change" Liberal (sucker) mentally won't be able to deal with the fact they they voted for and supported fascists. They will shut down and play "let pretend it isn't happening" or they will pass out leaflets or something. The Hard Core, "we know exactly what we are doing" liberals like Reid, Pelosi, and Obama - the cheaters, will of course be clamoring to sign up, but they won't have an army the size needed. They are too arrogant and elitist to know this, and it will become a quagmire for them. They have given us too many hints and too much time to prepare. 4 years ago, I would have been screwed. I owned no firearms, no bug out property, no skills in self sufficient living.
If they were smart, they would go with the sudden wholesale slaughter of the population via a biological outbreak - providing plausible deniability while allowing them to set up inoculation/quarantine/death camps where they can disappear individuals, establish travel controls, and then mop up with a foreign army after 90% of us are dead. To be successful quickly, they still need to do this by stealth, but their own arrogance and stupidity will cause them to F it up. Just like they do with everything.
Me and mine may die in the fight, I just hope I get to hear the liberals complaining about the government before I go.
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Man, this thing reads like a liberal wet dream doesn't it?
Unemployment continues to hover perilously close to double digits, small businesses cannot meet bankers’ terms to borrow money, and taxes on the middle class remain relatively high. A high-profile and vocal minority has directed the public’s fear and frustration at nonwhites and immigrants. After almost ten years of race-baiting and immigrant-bashing by right-wing demagogues, nearly one in five Americans reports being vehemently opposed to immigration, legal or illegal, and even U.S.-born nonwhites have become occasional targets for mobs of angry whites.
Whites are racist. Ask anyone. That is why they were the first race in history to vote to share their power with other races, even fighting a war with members of their own race over it.
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Weisshaupt, you are a puzzle wrapped in an enigma, to me. You have so little faith in Americans, on the whole, yet you hold that there are "awake" military who will defect. Doesn't it depend on how bad things are economically, that it may depend on whether or not their families are to be taken care of, or made to suffer unless they obey?
A lot of the police and military forces are like us-- awake. Even in the disaster scenario that was Katrina some units stood down and refused to confiscate weapons, and that was with a (pretend) conservative as President and before any of this Obama crap. I expect some units will follow orders, but that just as many will not. They risk splintering the military with such a move. Not to mention "putting down an insurrection" is going to result in lots of video footage of American men, women and children being shot at by the military for the offense of declaring what is already patently obvious - the Federal government is illegitimate, and has demonstrated in a train of abuses that they intend to subjugate us under a despotic system ( this event is further evidence) and if Romney is in charge when this goes on, the lapdog media won't be able to help themselves but cover it, and spin it to make Romney look bad - because ultimately those useful idiots won't realize what the event means, till they are hauled away and shot for covering it.
The media will omit covering what they can and spin wildly what they can't. The news will be told by Youtube via iPhone and will be taken down as fast as it's posted.
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I have a feeling that many of the line troops would not follow such orders as they would conflict with the Constitution and Bill of Rights (not to mention their own ideas of right and wrong).
I wish I believed so, but I do not. They will confiscate guns, round up and arrest, and fire on us. Not all, but enough so the hesitant ones will find themselves between a rock and a hard place and in the minority.
I have the same concern, and the same opinion. There are some good comments over at Free Republic about this. In particular this one from somebody named Steel Wolf articulated what we're concerned about:
How many 500 yard scoped deer rifles on up exist in private hands in the USA? Even Hitler would not attack Switzerland.
I don't disagree with what you're saying at all, and you've very articulately pointed out before how novel such a fight would be in world history. Still, the biggest problem we face, bar none, is the pairing of rising collectivist ambition with the inability of the modern military to properly understand or win wars. That's the kind of stuff that tragic miscalculations are made of.
Here's my concern. The left wants a fight. Specifically, they want a fight between the uniformed U.S. security forces (aka the center right) against the TEA Party/Constitutionalists/patriots (aka the far right).
The left doesn't have an army of its own, so their operational concept is to get the organs of the state to fight for them. They sit comfortably behind the flag, while making the actual patriots into public enemies. Rhetorically, it all works for them. The evil conservatives are vanquished, the left doesn't need to spill any blood, and the institutions that many conservatives cherish (military and law enforcement) are the ones that did the deed.
Fact of the matter is, the left has no army and really can't get one. They need a state-versus-patriot fight because there's no equivalent on the left. Just zero liability voters who expect to get paid in exchange for their support. They have needs and demands, true, but they're no pool of warriors ready to be tapped. That job will need to be outsourced.
The security structure in this country isn't leftist by any means, but there's lots of people with mortgages to pay and mouths to feed. They may be center right politically, but they'll do what they're told in the short run if the reason is marginally plausible. And that's the danger. The forces on the left that want the fight also want it to be over quickly, because it needs to be. They don't realize that realistically, once it starts, it could turn into Afghanistan in every single state. Even our own planners didn't realize that Afghanistan was going to turn into Afghanistan. Ditto Iraq. And at the higher levels, some of them are advising the same leftist powers-that-be on military and civil strategies like this.
Sadly, the left wants the fight so badly, and on paper they may think that the fight will be as easy as following the doctrine laid out by the nice men from the War College, but that kind of fight bedeviled us for a decade in the sandbox. It would be a thousand times worse here. It's that lack of understanding what they'd be unleashing that worries me more than anything. At least Hitler feared the Swiss for the right reasons. He may have been a fool in a number of ways, but he learned some hard lessons in WWI up close and personally. I really wonder if the left comprehends what kind of fire they're playing with.
Sounds eerily like the like the popular sentiments before the Civil War.
I have no idea how it's going to come down or come out but short of
a true miracle it's going to be a bluddy mess.
I'm praying for Mitt.
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Series up at Porretto's new place, by a contributing author. (http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2012/08/part-six-next-american-revolution.html)
Read all six, they go fast.
What say you?
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I have a feeling that many of the line troops would not follow such orders as they would conflict with the Constitution and Bill of Rights (not to mention their own ideas of right and wrong).
I wish I believed so, but I do not. They will confiscate guns, round up and arrest, and fire on us. Not all, but enough so the hesitant ones will find themselves between a rock and a hard place and in the minority.
Yeppers.
Someone with a better memory remind me of the name of the psycho-sociological experiment that was conducted in the early 80's where they divided a class up into captors/captives. Short story, the captors became ruthless, violent, and tortuous of their captives - even though they knew it was just an experiment.
Human nature can be a fearsome thing and given the proper inducement and programming people can do some God-awful sh*te.
My ambition is to nullify as many as I can before I and myself nullified.
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Can't name it but I remember reading about it.
As I remember, the captors started out as nice
reasonable folks.
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All I know is, the thing that we've all known is coming soon suddenly feels a lot more "soon" to me.
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Series up at Porretto's new place, by a contributing author. (http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2012/08/part-six-next-american-revolution.html)
Read all six, they go fast.
What say you?
I've not read all of it, but my initial take is the author believes -- as I do -- that notions of a 2nd American Republic, while romantic, are fanciful given demographic realities. The far better turn of events is balkanization and breakup of the country into new entities. Perhaps one or a few of those entities will stand a better chance of being the civic heirs of the American experiment.
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Sipsey Street Irregulars has a nice write-up as well - http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2012/08/bringing-war-back-home-full-spectrum.html (http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2012/08/bringing-war-back-home-full-spectrum.html)
It reads like the mother of all unintended consequences.
I don't know when the exercise was put together (maybe they said - I'm too tired to search for it) but this close to a national election puts a distinctive odor of malevolence on it. There are some leftists out there who want to goad us on the right into firing the opening salvo. Remember how that worked out for the South Carolinians. At the same time remember how Lincoln jumped the gun and called for 75k troops while he was trying to calm the insurrectionist waters and recall how that turned out as well.
There are a thousand way that things could go very bad very quickly and I blame Øbamugabe for every damned one of them.
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Series up at Porretto's new place, by a contributing author. (http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2012/08/part-six-next-american-revolution.html)
Read all six, they go fast.
What say you?
I believe Peter Brimelow of VDARE has often said, “This will all end in tears.”
Sorry but I'm all cried out...
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I'm not. But the more they make me cry, the more pissed off I do become. And so on ad infinitum.
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Bottom line: Do not jump the gun.
If it's going to happen let them do it.
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Bottom line: Do not jump the gun.
If it's going to happen let them do it.
Why, Charles? You tell me why? Because p-p-p-public opinion? Hmm? Because why? The press? The military? What?
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I wish sometimes that I had paid better attention and stuck with school. I've gathered some skills at gauging human behavior but recognize my own shortcomings. That said, I've learned some things about leftists that run remarkably true to form. They are almost universally cowards. They don't look you in the eye (except for the sociopaths) and they don't fight fair. They incite and antagonize, and prod and goad, but rarely make the first move. Instead they like to posture and lure you into showing your hand.
In the pursuit of Øbozo's fundamental transformation they will continually make overt moves, daring us to object (just as he has done). Every time the pubbies roll over and show their bellies they will respond by taking another step. Should a pubbie show some grit they will accuse him of being a reactionary or, with Øbozo, a racist. After a short period of assurances that they won't take any further steps they will take another step.
The only way to stop them is to meet them head on and use the nuclear option of de-funding them. Since there are no pubbies who have the stones to do that we continue to play the game...and lose.
The other nuclear option is the open rebellion. I think that it is rather apparent that they know this and know that we know that they know this. Hence the wargame. It is designed to mock and goad. Will we accommodate them by winging a few rounds or make them take the first real step?
Moral authority dictates that we must wait on them.
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Forgive me, but moral authority?! Whose?! They're goose-stepping us into submission for fear of taking the first stand. God dammit, Soup. Enough is enough already. Do we just walk peaceably into the railcars because they haven't fired on us?
*sigh*
More from Barnhardt's page:
Multiple Things
Posted by Ann Barnhardt - August 6, AD 2012 6:54 PM MST
1. The boys over at Sipsey Street Irregulars have posted a full piece on the Army Wargaming against the Tea Party article that I posted just below. Those guys sure can do the research. They go into detail about the author (COL Kevin Benson), who I have since learned is a Gen. Wesley Clark disciple. You Remember Wesley Clark, right? The flaming Marxist who ran for president a few years back? He was endorsed by Madonna, so that right there tells you pretty much all you need to know.
The Sipsey Street crew also explains how highly influential the Small Wars Journal is. Like I said, this isn't some Alex Jones carney hack outfit that published this piece.
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Weisshaupt, you are a puzzle wrapped in an enigma, to me. You have so little faith in Americans, on the whole, yet you hold that there are "awake" military who will defect. Doesn't it depend on how bad things are economically, that it may depend on whether or not their families are to be taken care of, or made to suffer unless they obey?
Military are self-selected- they either self select because they want the Army to be their family and take care of them--for the socialist nature of the institution, or because they really want to help their country and learn the skills of a warror. My bet isthat the numbers are pretty even, or slightly favor the patriot side. In other words, they don't resemble the american population as a whole. Hard times will increase the number of sell outs, no doubt, but I doubt it will change the numbers enough to avoid a real split and division in the ranks come SHTF. Those who understand the stakes also understand that you can't trade freedom for security. John Adama left his wife alone in Boston, while he went to Congress, and then to Europe. She was in harms way, had little income and had to raise his kids basiaclly without help. Sacrifice is part of the game here. I am willing to bet that people who are willing to put their own lives on the line for their country are more likely to get it. consequently their families must sacrifice as well - and risk the death of a spouse, etc - an individual doesn't join. The family does. Most military members have already made that decision, and are therefore less likely to cave in just to save their families. I could iof course be wrong, but that is the reasoning behind my thinking
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Bottom line: Do not jump the gun.
If it's going to happen let them do it.
Why, Charles? You tell me why? Because p-p-p-public opinion? Hmm? Because why? The press? The military? What?
I don't know if I would call it moral authority. Its more of the preference cascade effect. For a rebellion to be successful we need the preference cascade to happen in our favor. That means making them show their hand as to what and who they really are.. and even then its iffy. But if you have 1% in revolt, you have 300 Million people still looking to turn them in and help target them for a pat on the head if they think that doing so is the "right thing" - and the sheep are so damn stupid that we need it to be really really obvious that the government is in the wrong. Or at least have it be wrong enough that these cowards shy away from defending it and attacking the rebellion. The Civil War would never have happened if a preference cascade had not - The Southern States needed to make a collective decision to rebel and to go to war over it. Its a human behavior in groups thing. Too little or too soon and it fails. People have to feel a cause is just to join a fight. that is why the left tries so hard to smear people who are doing nothing but declaring our Founder's and their principles to be correct. They call the tea party racist, they call militias terrorists, because they fear that without such smears, that a preference cascade in Liberty's favor will occur.
The Hope N Change liberal just wants to feel good about themselves, but few of that type of useless idiot can advocate the murder of their fellow citizens and keep up the illusion that they are good or noble. Sure there are ones who can, but the vast majority of the sheep really just want that little ego high. Wil Wheaton couldn't bring himself to say that the government should be banning Chic-fil-a , while maintaining that anyone who disagrees with him is an irrational bigot. What he found was that it was hard to be self-righteous when being a dick. I wouldn't expect any conversions, but I do expect that when they can no longer get their feel good buzz, they will loose interest, and stop talking about it. If that occurs, the conversation or "narrative" will shift. The Hope N change liberal is a teen who just wants to be part of the popular crowd, if we become the cool kids, they will support ( or at least not oppose) the new agenda. Or at least that is the theory. We are waiting for a flash point that causes that shift, or results in us all fighting and dying and the liberals winning and getting the hell on earth they so richly deserve. May Obamacare and medical advances keep them alive and slaving away in poverty for 200 years.
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My big fear in waiting for the opposition to show their hand (and oh, haven't they several times already?!) is finding my rights illegally revoked and my arms removed.
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Series up at Porretto's new place, by a contributing author. (http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2012/08/part-six-next-american-revolution.html)
Read all six, they go fast.
What say you?
Wow, that guy makes me look positively optimistic in comparison.
Its an interesting read, but it wasn't very illuminating for me. A lot of black and white fallacy arguments, and a thinly veiled racism of a kind that would make the left all hot and wet. A lot of the characterization of people is "they are all this" or "they are all that" - but we know the problem is one of degree. We have evil barbarians and we have good men, each in varying degrees according to circumstances, which are always changing. He also seems to attribute permanent characteristics based on race and religion. Cultures and races change over time, and sudden changes, while rare, are possible - the preference cascade.
The American Creed and Trinity (as Dennis Prager calls it) on our coins — Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum — was dead. Everything our Founding Fathers fought for and established no longer existed. The Constitution was toilet paper.
The Republic the founders formed is dead. Their ideas are not, and won't be till they have burned the books and executed every real American. He says there is no where for the angry Americans to flow or coalesce, but asserts
I assume solvent States are not going to allow themselves to be robbed forever. They needn’t secede formally. They can simply ignore an increasingly toothless (because it’s broke) Federal government, and form semi-autonomous regions with their own currency and commerce.[/url]
and the States become the vehicle of resistance and protection form the Fed - just as the Founders planned. The monetary collapse is going to leave a power vacuum - and that means there will be a struggle - and probably an armed one. His prediction that we are too divided to keep a Federal Union of all 50 States is probably correct, but as we know that Union is already lost. The Feds will have to consolidate the country under their iron boot before the collapse or not at all. We already have some States resisting, and the Fed retaliating. As things get more unpleasant there will be large numbers of people ( conservative and liberal) who decide to emigrate in search of greener pastures - liberals especially. They are locusts- they ruin a place and then move on. They want the prosperity, but understand nothing about how its created, and certainly don't want to work for it.
But won’t the solvent States be magnets for the very people who destroyed their own regions, and won’t they bring as many illegals as they can with them?
Texas is being held up as a well governed, low taxed, more highly employed, and open development paradise, but over half the students there are Hispanic, legal and illegal.
Here is that racism thing - as if Hispanics can't be real Americans. The left has used race to divide us, but in this contest it isn't black against white, or WASPS against everyone else. It is looters vs producers, grasshoppers vs ants, and grudgers vs cheaters and their sucker minions. The successful states will not be magnets for the locusts if they aren't locust friendly. State govt are strapped as well- the social services just won't be there for the grasshoppers. You work and you live well. You don't and you starve. Liberals follow "social safety nets", not prosperity. They avoid openly conservative places like Wyoming and Texas, and when they do go to enclaves (Austin) - witness this question (http://www.city-data.com/forum/wyoming/626772-democratic-enclave-wyoming-possible.html) and I suspect as this drags out and both sides become more hostile to each other, the separation will become more pronounced- as the native populations of such places make it clear that they are done taking the liberal sh*t. One of my liberal ex- buddies left AZ for Washington State, while keeping his job in AZ working remotely. He has done Facebook posts about how AZ has "become insane." - Liberals consider themselves "Worldly" and "non-materialistic" as well - Canada ( my family), Costa Rica, Brazil, China , Australia, etc all start to look better to the looters- especially since they want to pretend they aren't like "typical Americans" and love the exotic, instead of being xenophobic and rigid like us bitter clingers. (Of course they are the first to expect the foreign country to change to accommodate them)
The spirit of the Pilgrims, Puritans, roughnecks, and grasping gentry that built this nation cannot be rekindled. Culture changes too much. How many civilizations has China gone though in terms of rising and falling? Are the Chinese at all like they were in 1430 or in the 12th century under Genghis Khan? I don’t know. Were they less or more servile? More or less tough minded and stalwart?
Actually, in terms of culture- the Chinese have never been conquered. The conquerors always end up becoming Chinese. They are what I have heard termed a "center-culture" - they assume they are conquered because others wanted what they have, and they know they have it because of the way they live. The cultures changes there, but it doesn't. "Confucian by day, Taoist by night" as the saying goes. Confucius gave the people an incredible set of rules of interacting with one another. They were stupid and annoying, and the people lived with them, and broke them as needed, and adhered in their personal relationships to their own ethics - Taoist ethics. And as each new system was introduced the Chinese people would provide the appearance of compliance and then do what they wanted. The have a patience in their culture that we lack. A confidence that resists the cultural corruption and wears down those trying to change it, rather than the inverse we have experienced here. So in short, this is a an awful example, and one that betrays a lot of ignorance on the part of the author.
Our culture, the traditional American culture has been under attack and it has been loosing.. largely because we are accommodating of differences. However I agree with the author - the key is censure.
[Whites] hate the appearance of being mean and unfair more than they love their children, values, and desire to survive. What Christian community today will vehemently deny equal rights and discriminate against homosexuals and homosexuality with the force needed to suppress the depravity, unholiness, degeneracy, and corruption that comes with tolerating the perverse and perverting? ... What Christian community will uphold the right of association, and thus allow anyone to discriminate however they please towards others in their private lives and business?
While using the term Whites and Christians apparently interchangeably is stupid, this is the problem. Via Law and cultural attack, the liberal have robbed us of our right to censure the bad actors - and not just homosexuals. Those who we would have cut off from our charity, now have legal means of extracting it from us. . You may not discriminate against them in hiring or in group/club membership. You will not enforce laws against criminals. Ultimately that is what Gay Marriage is about - removing yet more barriers and protecting yet another class of sucker/looters from being cut off and marginalized by the majority. Going Galt has become the only viable means of cutting them off, censuring them, and removing their influence from our lives. The left thinks they have a right to respect, and try to enforce it by law. But look how much our hearts here have hardened against them. It is happening elsewhere as well. The question is one of degree, and if that preference cascade forms in meaningful action - as it has in AZ where the people have decided to take Federal law and duties into their own hands. As things get worse, and prosperity disappears, we can depend on human nature to move to protect what you have. We have tolerated the looter behavior and theft because we had plenty, more than any other human generation in history. With prosperity gone, the looters become more violent, and the reaction against them as well. Tribalism is, at its lowest level, a system of censure, and they have robbed our tribe of he ability to censure and exile those who don't live by our rules, while putting in place the systems to censure us - Bloomberg being a prime example.
When 90% of the people owned their own farms and businesses, who could threaten them with penury? Now, 90% work for others, institutions, corporations. It’s easy to terrify them with threats of permanent unemployment.[/url]
Which is why so many of us are choosing Galt. So we can't be so threatened. The Govt cheese is just a bonus on top for us, but they will mistake our taking it for dependence and therefore control.
Thus, national rebellion of any kind requires the service of an army. The States and Federal governments have armies, but We the People do not. We have survivalists, white nationalist groups, neo-Nazis, some Tea Partiers, many disgusted and aggrieved service veterans and Constitutionalists who’d like to organize resistance and defiance of Fed and State authorities, but all who are essentially impotent without leadership, organization, money, arms, and allies (in the population at large and foreign support in acquiring weapons)[/url]
There are the people who become the Army - We all all stilling here waiting for the clarion call - even if we only hear it one by one on our own homesteads. I am personally resigned to that fate. 3 Million dug in, armed, bitter clingers, is an army, even if they fight alone. If each does his duty and kills ONE of the enemy before being eliminated, it still going to be a very costly war for them to fight.
I have said before the only way out of this storm now is through. The situation as we pass through as the govt attempts to subdue us before and after the crash is going to be fluid and unpredictable. There is no sure course for us to follow, but the same is true for them, and that is the risk and the opportunity. I think some sort of clarion call will come, probably in the succession of a State or States. I don't expect America as it has been to survive, but I think we have already come to that conclusion. The goal now is carving out a new place where freedom can thrive, and if that happens, I am hopeful. We know what would happen to the Blue States if left to their own- they will follow the fed down the debt hole. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that they will have to move to subdue us before the crash, and I do not think they are powerful enough for such an attempt- and I think that such will galvanize the resistance. Perhaps the population is too apathetic as this guys suggests, but I think the harder things get, the less apathetic the people will be.
Times, they are a changing. Changing violently, and the people will change with them. I don't think anything is a foregone conclusion other than the first American republic is over.
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My big fear in waiting for the opposition to show their hand (and oh, haven't they several times already?!) is finding my rights illegally revoked and my arms removed.
Your natural rights have been revoked but they have taken no physical
action against you. As long as they have taken no physical action the
possibility of a return to a constitutional republic remains. You don't want
to blow that. Patience, the answers are coming soon.
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My big fear in waiting for the opposition to show their hand (and oh, haven't they several times already?!) is finding my rights illegally revoked and my arms removed.
Your natural rights have been revoked but they have taken no physical
action against you. As long as they have taken no physical action the
possibility of a return to a constitutional republic remains. You don't want
to blow that. Patience, the answers are coming soon.
I understand that, but we cannot continue to allow rights to be swept away, otherwise the Brownshirts knocking on (in) your door will be getting physical while you protest "why all the violence, man?!"...I would contend that taking away our God-given rights is more than just a prelude to imminent physical harm.
Hey Weisshaupt, if that guy makes you look optimistic, I must be looking more pessimistic...I thought some of that scenario he outlined was rather hopeful in my opinion!
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Hey Weisshaupt, if that guy makes you look optimistic, I must be looking more pessimistic...I thought some of that scenario he outlined was rather hopeful in my opinion!
Same here! In my view balkanization is a feature, not a bug.
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Yup, we should be so lucky.
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If we think the clash is inevitable, there are lessons needing learned.
Unlike the Founding, it won't be as simple as shouting "the Redcoats are coming" and the militia mustering to deter them.
Guerilla tactics such as the Viet Cong or French Resistance in WWII or the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan against the Russians
Organizations built as small cells; independent but loosely aware and able to coordinate.
They have major superiority in firepower and technology.
Drones and electronic surveillance are a couple examples.
I have never been in the military but I can learn the lessons of history.
Personally, I don't see a large chunk of the military joining Freedom.
Here's an off the cuff thought.
Can anything be learned from Falling Skies and is it an allegory for our real situation here?
You have a hodgepodge of untrained civilians joining together against a vastly superior force and holding their own.
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Can't name it but I remember reading about it.
As I remember, the captors started out as nice
reasonable folks.
Stanford prison experiment in 1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment)
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I have never been in the military but I can learn the lessons of history.
Personally, I don't see a large chunk of the military joining Freedom.
.
Using history as a guide, maybe not. However there aren't any Armies in history that were composed of volunteers who had known and enjoyed a history of freedom, and perhaps that will make the difference. Or perhaps not. We are still bogged down in the sandbox, against a largely uneducated force. Outright control the Military can achieve. Peace and Order, not so much - even with the superior arms and tech. I still suspect that any freedom fighters there are here will be assisted by ex-military and saboteurs in the ranks in neutralizing such advantages, if it comes down to fighting in the streets Not to mention the leftist elitist tendency to underestimate the commoners. . If 3% of us fight, we have an near overwhelming force. I suspect they will avoid an outright confrontation unless it goes down in such a way that they can use it to advance their agenda.
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Hey Weisshaupt, if that guy makes you look optimistic, I must be looking more pessimistic...I thought some of that scenario he outlined was rather hopeful in my opinion!
Same here! In my view balkanization is a feature, not a bug.
Given his unfinished novel, I am not sure he agrees. Balkanization after collapse is probably okay. The libtards will make every state they control look like California, and then we can just take territory as we need it from them. Providing a place like Detroit is worth capturing. However if the Fed still exists in any meaningful way, I suspect the Feds will fight it- and may win. Obama and pals won't mind giving part of the country to Russia or China if it keeps us from establishing a free state.
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However there aren't any Armies in history that were composed of volunteers who had known and enjoyed a history of freedom, and perhaps that will make the difference
Maybe the Founding generation had enjoyed freedom.
They were pretty much left alone until King George's treasury needed to squeeze them
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Hey Weisshaupt, if that guy makes you look optimistic, I must be looking more pessimistic...I thought some of that scenario he outlined was rather hopeful in my opinion!
Same here! In my view balkanization is a feature, not a bug.
Given his unfinished novel, I am not sure he agrees. Balkanization after collapse is probably okay. The libtards will make every state they control look like California, and then we can just take territory as we need it from them. Providing a place like Detroit is worth capturing. However if the Fed still exists in any meaningful way, I suspect the Feds will fight it- and may win. Obama and pals won't mind giving part of the country to Russia or China if it keeps us from establishing a free state.
Places like Detroit will most certainly be needed - where else are we gonna send the 'tards?
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Can't name it but I remember reading about it.
As I remember, the captors started out as nice
reasonable folks.
Stanford prison experiment in 1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment)
Thank you for finding that ::curtsy4::
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Hey Weisshaupt, if that guy makes you look optimistic, I must be looking more pessimistic...I thought some of that scenario he outlined was rather hopeful in my opinion!
Same here! In my view balkanization is a feature, not a bug.
Given his unfinished novel, I am not sure he agrees. Balkanization after collapse is probably okay. The libtards will make every state they control look like California, and then we can just take territory as we need it from them. Providing a place like Detroit is worth capturing. However if the Fed still exists in any meaningful way, I suspect the Feds will fight it- and may win. Obama and pals won't mind giving part of the country to Russia or China if it keeps us from establishing a free state.
Places like Detroit will most certainly be needed - where else are we gonna send the 'tards?
I was thinking about Detroit. The productive have fled, the dregs are left and there aren't many of them at that, relatively speaking. What if they could be relocated and the productive allowed to rebuild? Would it be worth it geographically and resource-wise?
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Forgive me, but moral authority?! Whose?! They're goose-stepping us into submission for fear of taking the first stand. God dammit, Soup. Enough is enough already. Do we just walk peaceably into the railcars because they haven't fired on us?
I understand your frustration, but the question that comes to my mind is: Where to start?
I understand that, but we cannot continue to allow rights to be swept away, otherwise the Brownshirts knocking on (in) your door will be getting physical while you protest "why all the violence, man?!"...I would contend that taking away our God-given rights is more than just a prelude to imminent physical harm.
Once that happens, you can bend over and kiss your ass goodbye. It's way too late.
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Forgive me, but moral authority?! Whose?! They're goose-stepping us into submission for fear of taking the first stand. God dammit, Soup. Enough is enough already. Do we just walk peaceably into the railcars because they haven't fired on us?
I understand your frustration, but the question that comes to my mind is: Where to start?
I understand that, but we cannot continue to allow rights to be swept away, otherwise the Brownshirts knocking on (in) your door will be getting physical while you protest "why all the violence, man?!"...I would contend that taking away our God-given rights is more than just a prelude to imminent physical harm.
Once that happens, you can bend over and kiss your ass goodbye. It's way too late.
I am frustrated and I do not mean to bark at anyone here.
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Re: #31, "Guerilla tactics such as the Viet Cong or French Resistance in WWII or the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan against the Russians"
They all had state support; China and Russia supported the Viet Cong, we and the British supported the French Resistance heavily, and Charlie Wilson with Joanne King supported the Mujahadeen. Some say Charlie shot down the first Russian helicopter over there.
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Truth be known, I'm just making it up as I go along. I have no magic 8-ball that will tell me when the time has come. I for damn sure know that I can't rely on any of our "leaders" (patooie!) to tell me.
And wouldn't you know it, I keep having this reoccurring dream where I'm facing down the enemy and screwing up my courage and shouting out to me men,
"Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes!"
And then,
It dawns on me...
(http://imgc.artprintimages.com/images/art-print/mcconnell-zulu-warrior_i-G-54-5402-ECBXG00Z.jpg)
I'm screwed!
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::rolllaughing::
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Shaka Zulu!
Hmm, not much of a battle cry...
I'll stick with "Get some"!
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InfoWars LINK (http://www.infowars.com/national-weather-service-follows-dhs-in-huge-ammo-purchase/)
And it's stuff like this that absolutely lends credence to this thread...
The federal government is clearly gearing up for the likelihood of civil unrest on a scale that could outstrip what we’ve already seen in countries across Europe.
While the establishment demonizes the second amendment in light of recent mass shootings and legislation is prepared to ban the sale of large quantities of ammunition online, the federal government is acquiring ammunition at levels necessary to fight a full scale domestic war.
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They take an good idea and run it a little too thin,
if they were a bit more restrained they'd be a lot
more credible.
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Now even the National Weather Service has ordered 16,000 rounds of ammo. They claim it was a clerical error.
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It's to bring down those whether balloons.
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Now even the National Weather Service has ordered 16,000 rounds of ammo. They claim it was a clerical error.
Yea, I know how that 5 rounds per box vs. 25 rounds per box can go :o
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Load of crap, the order was correct, thier cover story is BS, contact the manufacturer and ask them if it the order was cancelled, I'll bet dollars to dooughnuts it wasn't. Now, while I don't think the rounds are going to the NWS, I do think they are the cover story for whoever is getting them. Sure would be nice to have a press and representatives willing to find out...
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Right. That was my interpretation as well. Kind of like back in the 90s when there was a big scandal about the military paying ridiculous amounts for mundane items. I seem to remember $800 hammers, $1000 toilet seats, etc. Now, sadly, it is plausible that procurement could be that grossly inefficient, but I think the more plausible explanation is that the money was going somewhere else for something else.
Some have speculated that the reason such agencies are being equipped with weapons and ammunition is for a hypothetical deputizing of the entire Federal workforce. Remember the whole national security force, equipped and funded as well as the military?
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Yeah, there is no doubt some of that deputizing plans in the works, but the NWS? Even with training those clowns might shoot their own dicks off before threatening anybody else.
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Some have speculated that the reason such agencies are being equipped with weapons and ammunition is for a hypothetical deputizing of the entire Federal workforce. Remember the whole national security force, equipped and funded as well as the military?
Oh gosh, I hope that means employees of the IRS - I will feel much better shooting them down when they come to try and take my property if they are armed themselves.
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I thought IRS already got some.
Now, its the SSA!
http://www.infowars.com/social-security-administration-to-purchase-174-thousand-rounds-of-hollow-point-bullets/ (http://www.infowars.com/social-security-administration-to-purchase-174-thousand-rounds-of-hollow-point-bullets/)
174k rounds of .357 sig 125gr HP's.
Nice, huh?
/
I tell ya, nefarious forces at work and the Obama Regime is moving fast!
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Yeah this is extremely unsettling that so many agencies that have nothing to do with policing and security are getting things, especially in these quantities.
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And hollowmpoints? Aren't those what the leftist gun-haters say are only meant to kill humans? Just not all humans, you see...
Sure seems like we're in the chute and picking up speed a lot faster, eh?
Well OK, I'll play along, I'll get some more too!
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Yeah this is extremely unsettling that so many agencies that have nothing to do with policing and security are getting things, especially in these quantities.
The agencies getting the ammo may not be keeping it. It may be just shuffled around based on which budget they think can hide it best.
16000 rounds here, another 32000 there.
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I think so too. It's obviously an effort to obscure the scope and scale of what is happening. The first large order we heard about several months ago I was semi willing to give the benefit of the doubt that it was for years worth of training. But it is obviously something else.