It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => Politics/Legislation/Elections => Topic started by: MacWell™ on December 09, 2012, 06:02:09 PM
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America is at stake, that is without question.
With only 60+ % of republicans voting in 2012, it's no more time for debate, it's time for action.
What ever you may think about Romney, he was a decent man, with good character, and brains, and imo, he loves America.
Apparently, that wasn't good enough for 30+ % of us.
Now, we might very well loose America, for real.
I believe we are selling these democrats/socialists/progressives, whatevers, short.
They're like viri, they will never stop, they will never back down, they will never capitulate, they will fight to the death for the form of government they think they want.
There are only 2 ways we the people will ever take America back. One is by the vote, the other is by force. I only pray to God, daily, that we can do it by the ballot box, the other way is, or should be unthinkable.
We the people MUST create a new party. Call it whatever you want, that isn't really important. What IS important is that this party MUST be a representation of the MAJORITY, not the minority.
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The Tea Party was our best shot. Insofar as it can be resurrected, reconstituted, and/or morphed into an organized political party, the people in it and the principles embodied by them are the nations only hope.
It will take a viable, high-profile conservative who can offer a legitimate challenge to the GOP candidate at the top of the ticket. A tall order. Too little too late. even that might only be enough to destroy the GOP once and for all - not win against the Leftists.
In retrospect, this "Tea Party" movement should have been a mainstream political party for 100 years, or at least the past 50. We wouldn't be here today if people had not abandoned their civic duty for generations.
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The time has come where voting with ballots is giving way to voting with feet. Time to give it up to God and let His will be done.
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Anybody have any good resources on the decline and fall of the Whigs and the birthing of the Republican Party?
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I know it took a really long time to transition back then, the Whigs were essentially rendered moot after Jackson defeated J.Q. Adams' attempt at a second term...the parade of Democrats that followed was comprised of some of the most unremarkable Presidents in history. The rise of the Republican party was not possible until Lincoln, one could argue the man made the party, not the other way around, before 1860 the party was relatively small and obscure.
A quick query at Amazon yielded these results, not sure of this book or the others linked to it, most of my reading of this period came via biographies and such.
If anybody has any knowledge of good books on the subject I would be interested too, it is not a specific historical line I've persued in detail.
http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-American-Whig-Party/dp/0195161041 (http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-American-Whig-Party/dp/0195161041)
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I've been interested also but haven't taken the time to find out. All I know is that Hillsdale College where my children graduated was very involved in the anti-slavery movement and the start of the Republican Party.
(My daughter studied the democratic party in grad school and said there's not one redeeming aspect to that party. From the start they were nasty and dishonest.)
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...The rise of the Republican party was not possible until Lincoln, one could argue the man made the party, not the other way around, before 1860 the party was relatively small and obscure...
In other words, the Republican party was firmly established on the crest and in the wake of civil war. And the spoils of that war and the party that it nurtured turned the concept of federalism on its head, forever.
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OK OK......Now I have voted the lesser of two evils ... TWICE ... because if I voted any other way I would waste a vote according to my fellow travelers.
Well no more. At this point neither represents my interests or properly protects me. So I will seek another political party. I have no plans to revisit either party for any reason.
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OK OK......Now I have voted the lesser of two evils ... TWICE ... because if I voted any other way I would waste a vote according to my fellow travelers.
Well no more. At this point neither represents my interests or properly protects me. So I will seek another political party. I have no plans to revisit either party for any reason.
I'm ready. My state leaders have went RINO. I can't take it anymore.
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OK OK......Now I have voted the lesser of two evils ... TWICE ... because if I voted any other way I would waste a vote according to my fellow travelers.
Well no more. At this point neither represents my interests or properly protects me. So I will seek another political party. I have no plans to revisit either party for any reason.
I think the number of people who espouse the same or similar sentiment is on a sharp increase.
Nice to see you post, BTW OLJ.
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I think we can keep the Repub party but have to focus our attention to the primary races 'primarily'. IOW, we need to think of the primary races as our MAIN battlefied and start targeting ALL establishment/RINO Repubs for throwing to the trash bin.
The politicians are staggered, so we can only dump 'em when they come up for reelection, but after 3 election cycles or so, we should start seeing real results. We need to encourage the real conservative candidates that we currently have, and let them know that help is on the way. And to remind them that we don't want them to 'compromise' with the establishment types, just sit tight, battle as best they can, until we get control.
And I mean to TARGET the establishment types and mark them for dumping!!!
If we live in an area that is represented by a true conservative, then we should move our support to the closest area that has an Establishment Repub and help support whoever the true conservative candidate is, rather than just sit there and do nothing.
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I've lost that hope. We elected fewer TeaParty this time.
We had an opportunity this election primary to dump, for one, Boehner and did not. The election rules, Party money, and even opportunity to advance if elected are facacada.
I cast aspersions upon them.
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I honestly don't think we have multiple election cycles remaining in which to conduct a purge, even if such a purge were possible.
The GOP will die, and America will be fundamentally transformed in accordance with all such transformations throughout the 20th century, only on steroids.
The greatest, wealthiest, and most powerful nation in the history of humanity is about to marshal its resources into a massive collectivist effort. Commandeering the GOP was our hope, and that hope was folly.
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I honestly don't think we have multiple election cycles remaining in which to conduct a purge, even if such a purge were possible.
The GOP will die, and America will be fundamentally transformed in accordance with all such transformations throughout the 20th century, only on steroids.
The greatest, wealthiest, and most powerful nation in the history of humanity is about to marshal its resources into a massive collectivist effort. Commandeering the GOP was our hope, and that hope was folly.
I can't imagine the wealthiest hanging around to have thier money confiscated....It will be another 3% today, but who knows about tomorrow. I'm not sure where they may move, but I expect this nation to not only lose wealth because of horrid policy, but some to flee.
Those gobbling up the free stuff...thier miserable lives won't change. The true middle class will suffer, and suffer greatly.
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Some will indeed flee. A local longtime acquaintance of mine took a trip to Costa Rica to evaluate its suitability.
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Some will indeed flee. A local longtime acquaintance of mine took a trip to Costa Rica to evaluate its suitability.
I don't blame them. I wish I were in that type of position. I've bounced from letting it implode to making a deal to cripple along a few years so I can better prepare financially. I'm not looking forward to keeping my business viable. I feel like I'm banging my head against a rock, knowing the inevetable is a concussion.
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Definitely do not have time for a mutliple cycle purge, a complete dump program stands the only chance, and even then there are little guarantees...
Time to starting thinking for ourselves, our families and our circle of friends.
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That's why I have to roll my eyes when I hear otherwise well meaning people say "it took them 80 years to get us to this point, it's going to take us that long to push back". What kind of crack are they smoking?
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Brainfart.
This is off the cuff and not thought out at all (like a lot of my stuff ??? )
With the speed of how things move, why don't we start the movement?
Most of us are involved to some extent with Tea Parties and other groups.
We have contacts and acquaintances.
With a little marketing, let's brainstorm what it would take?
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The only movements I favor are those that carve out a safe haven of sanity and liberty from this rotting socialist carcass we refer to as the USA today...anything else seems so utterly pointless.
Another example of what we are up against...once captains of industry were hailed as innovators, creators, employers and engines of capitalism and growth...now, they worship the God of 'getting things done" by any means...they are whores, chimeras of demonic origin...
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/head-of-obamas-jobs-council-state-run-communism-actually-works/ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/head-of-obamas-jobs-council-state-run-communism-actually-works/)
The only way we can save ourselves is by removing ourselves from this diseased host by any means necessary! ;)
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I guess it gets back to the preference cascade. The only thing keeping the lid on this pressure cooker is the perception of futility. Lots of people are disgusted, and angered to the point of despondency. But that perception of futility is one of Leviathan's most powerful psychic weapons, and it keeps people cowed and demoralized.
I'm not sure that can change until circumstance permits. But when it does? Things like that tend to rapidly fall into place once people realize their anger is 1. legitimate, 2. common, and 3. actionable.
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"once captains of industry were hailed as innovators, creators, employers and engines of capitalism and growth...now, they worship the God of 'getting things done" by any means...they are whores, chimeras of demonic origin..." Crony Capitalists are Marx's silent partner.
Boehner Has To Go: Ignore the Constitution, Party Uber Alles! (http://riehlworldview.com/2012/12/boehner-has-to-go-ignore-the-constitution-party-uber-alles.html#more-26582)
The people Boehner has punished were not elected by their constituents to represent John Boehner, his leadership, nor the Republican Party. The Republican Party is not protected by the Constitution. By his actions, Boehner has made himself the tanned poster child of everything that is wrong with Washington. It’s two parties vying for power, the will of the American people be damned!
What does this idiot Boehner hope to do, split the party officially?
The House of Representatives is called the ‘house of the people’ for a reason. It is not the House of John Boehner, or the GOP. By punishing certain members as he has, Boehner may as well be punishing individual citizens for their thoughts, opinions and positions. The bottom line is, Boehner is intellectually not up to the job. Obama will continue to kick his ass around like a dope and he needs to resign. He can’t even handle this internal situation adequately and is simply not up to the job.
...
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I did use the divide and conquer phrase recently, did I not? And Obama has no better ally in advancing his agenda than in keeping a stooge like Boehner in power, if Boehner goes Obama's agenda is largely checked, he'd still have his decrees and the bureaucracy to ruin roughshod over the populace, but his big ticket dreams would die. The Ruling Class grand bargainers will ensure the status quo is maintained, Boehner isn't going anywhere. They only way he would go is if the E-GOP prefers a new puppet.
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I think we can keep the Repub party but have to focus our attention to the primary races 'primarily'. IOW, we need to think of the primary races as our MAIN battlefied and start targeting ALL establishment/RINO Repubs for throwing to the trash bin.
The politicians are staggered, so we can only dump 'em when they come up for reelection, but after 3 election cycles or so, we should start seeing real results. We need to encourage the real conservative candidates that we currently have, and let them know that help is on the way. And to remind them that we don't want them to 'compromise' with the establishment types, just sit tight, battle as best they can, until we get control.
And I mean to TARGET the establishment types and mark them for dumping!!!
If we live in an area that is represented by a true conservative, then we should move our support to the closest area that has an Establishment Repub and help support whoever the true conservative candidate is, rather than just sit there and do nothing.
Sir, with all due respect, we couldn't even get 70% of OUR people to vote in the biggest, most important election in the nation's history, what comfort can any of us take in allowing the future of America to be left in the hands of the very people who're too lazy/stoned/unsatisfied to get off their butts and vote?
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After carefully reading all the replies to my post, I, once again, must thank all the patriots here. I come here to find solace. In a country that used to be, America is fast becoming a third world nation. People who're as disgusted by what's happening to OUR America as I am. I have grandchildren, and great grandchildren and when I think of what they will face when, or IF they grow to adults, all I can do is pray for them, and America.
Living in a state that is hard to get a gun, (legally), I hope that I can figure a way to move from here. Getting a gun in NJ reminds me of how hard it used to be to get a bank loan, (the only way to get a bank loan is to prove to them that you don't need it.).
I cannot allow myself to give up.
The more I see, the more I've given up hope that America will last much longer, at least the America we grew up in.
At least we can say we tried. America has done more for the world in her short time than all the nations of the earth combined since the beginning of time.
Again, thank you all for allowing me this place of refuge.
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MacWell: How much money is needed every year exclusively for deodorant for NJ?
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Brainfart.
This is off the cuff and not thought out at all (like a lot of my stuff ??? )
With the speed of how things move, why don't we start the movement?
Most of us are involved to some extent with Tea Parties and other groups.
We have contacts and acquaintances.
With a little marketing, let's brainstorm what it would take?
I seriously have no earthly idea. I wish I could put a plan of action to your "brainfart", because it is a noble and worthy idea. If there is to be a movement, it must first be an idea.
The thought that comes to my mind is that the Tea Party WAS that of which you speak. And it failed.
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Thanks, IDP.
I've said before that the Tea Party was doomed to fail from the beginning.
What everyone espoused as it's strength was it's core weakness and doomed it to failure.
I'm starting to think that was by design.
Every little local handful of patriots was an autonomous group and had very little in common.
There is the story of Genghis Khan.
When he first became Khan, they were having a council around the campfire.
He gave each an arrow and told each to break it which they were all able to easily do.
Then he gave each a bundle of arrows and told them to break those.
None could.
He told them that they could win by banding the tribes together but individually, they could easily be defeated.
The Tea Party is the individual arrow
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AP, I think you're correct. It recalls why we (the US) went from a confederation to a constitutional government. A confederation, like some other political systems, is more idealistic but less practical to a free society than a constitutional government. The Tea Party was a confederation.
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...There is the story of Genghis Khan.
When he first became Khan, they were having a council around the campfire.
He gave each an arrow and told each to break it which they were all able to easily do.
Then he gave each a bundle of arrows and told them to break those.
None could.
He told them that they could win by banding the tribes together but individually, they could easily be defeated.
The Tea Party is the individual arrow
Swiping that for my facebook page. Most of my "friends" are Tea Party online acquaintences.
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I think I am going to post this on other like minded forums, too
Probably use a title something like "The Tea Party was designed to fail"
Charles, you made an excellent point
I suppose I should include a link back to here
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Last time I checked there is no established "Liberty" party, we are it. ;)
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Last time I checked there is no established "Liberty" party, we are it. ;)
Let's get the show on the road
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Last time I checked there is no established "Liberty" party, we are it. ;)
Let's get the show on the road
I'll get to work on the party constitution. It will be heavily weighted with Founding principles which the current iteration of America began walking away from for over a century...the Tree of Liberty will be renewed.
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Last time I checked there is no established "Liberty" party, we are it. ;)
The Liberty Party, I like the sound of that!
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Last time I checked there is no established "Liberty" party, we are it. ;)
Let's get the show on the road
I'll get to work on the party constitution. It will be heavily weighted with Founding principles which the current iteration of America began walking away from for over a century...the Tree of Liberty will be renewed.
It's going to require much in the way of blood.
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Last time I checked there is no established "Liberty" party, we are it. ;)
Let's get the show on the road
I'll get to work on the party constitution. It will be heavily weighted with Founding principles which the current iteration of America began walking away from for over a century...the Tree of Liberty will be renewed.
It's going to require much in the way of blood.
In the end, it will be written in it.
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I no longer believe that the American citizen has any courage whatsoever.
I believe that the fat lady is getting ready to sing.
The late great America.
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I no longer believe that the American citizen has any courage whatsoever.
I believe that the fat lady is getting ready to sing.
The late great America.
I think I engraved the expiration date on the tombstone to be the day this past summer when Crackpipe Roberts gave the SCOTUS stamp of approval on ObamaCare...but pick your date, one is as good as another...