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World/Foreign Affairs / Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Last post by Weisshaupt on Today at 05:39:56 PM »
Most of us here consider ourselves "conservative" and hold none of those positions.
As Already explained the so-called "Conservative party"  in America  is controlled opposition for the Democrats, so I can see why an uneducated and ignorant outsider might see Republicans as representing conservatives or  being in lock step with Democrats and not realize that has nothing at all to do with being an American conservative. But hey, you obviously aren't interested in being educated on this are you?

Read the previous posts in the forum.  We don't call the Republicans the stupid party for nothing. We don't want deficit spending. We don't think Paul Ryan is a fiscal hawk. We know full well the Republican party  doesn't represent the interests of conservative people . And we know full well that Republicans never overturn anything - I HAVE ALREADY SAID SO.  However, the tenacity and entrenched nature of the two party means we can currently either split the vote, letting the Democrats win or vote for the lesser evil and put in a Republican who will probably slow (but never stop) the bleed.  But I guess you don't understand that you can only choose from the choices  you get, and in reality - since Republicans are a branch of the Democrat party, we don't really get a choice - other than to buy firearms and wait for the inevitable.

But Obviously you  feel you  know better than I do  what I and others here  think and believe  and better than I do what those terms mean, in reality,   in my own country. To me they are just labels, and your labels aren't going to modify reality in the slightest. 
If it makes you feel good to define these terms  in this way, then go ahead but you are misusing them in this context and they do not commonly denote the meanings you are ascribing to them.
But then I guess shouldn't expect you to use words according to their common meanings  , as you also appear to  think Wheel barrows commonly have 2 wheels.

You may now have the last word if you wish it.  I'm done.




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Latest 1/18/19

Honestly, Jeff Hogan. Does Jim Goodmon write your news anchor copy? You spent time every segment this morning broadcasting the “bombshell” report from a discredited Buzzfeed writer who couldn’t get his story straight with his co-writer. So Trump directed Cohen to lie to Congress. Admittedly, if true, an impeachable offense. But Buzzfeed? Jason Leopold? Unnamed sources? Haha. Remember Leopold’s 100% true story that Gingrich was going to be indicted? How did that turn out. Oh yes, go back to his Enron story and autobiography. Book pulled and Leopold fired ... for lying. He’s a unrepentant fabulist but your network chose to breathlessly run with the story regardless. Keep it up Mr. Hogan. I may continue to watch your morning news program, if only for the humor. (No, I’m laughing at you.
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She's lying; her lips are moving.
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  I can't think of any place on earth that wants him .
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World/Foreign Affairs / Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Last post by DocTrock on Today at 03:15:56 PM »
Quote
Liberal/conservative is:

1. Statist
2. Interventionist
3. Collectivist
4. Central planning

More undefined terms but fine , I will tell you what I think they mean, shall I?

Liberal and conservative are diametrical opposites in the context of the United States.  Conservatives in the States ( not to be confused with Republicans who are a controlled opposition party) are trying to conserve the original Republic - and are therefore anti-statist, anti-central-planning and anti collectivist , whereas the "liberals" ( not to be confused with classical liberals)   are statist (as in the State is the supreme arbiter) , collectivist (as in the community comes before the individual)  and pro-central planning ( as in the government "plans" the economy)



The rest of your post was you assigning positions to me that I do not hold.   Isolationism is NOT Non-interventionism.   The current policy of the USA, supported by liberal/conservatives is Isolationism.    We're not even supposed to talk with Russian, Iranians, etc.   We're to isolate them via sanctions, embargoes, etc.    That is Isolationism in practice....but you call it something else.

Conservatives in the USA march in lockstep with liberals.   They are not opposites at all.    More like right and left wheels of the same wheelbarrow.

Liberals want deficit spending, massive government, military intervention, and government control over all aspects of life.
Conservatives also want deficit spending, massive government....etc.   

The only difference is who is in control,  (R) or (D).   

Conservatives are also completely detached from reality, much more so than Liberals.  Conservatives imagine that a guy like Paul Ryan is a "fiscal hawk," or that Republicans will overturn Roe v Wade, etc.   They also have a false belief that conservatives want to shrink government.

There is zero proof for these beliefs, as every republican/conservative politician has increased spending,  not overturned Roe v Wade,  increased the size and power of government and the like.

Your claim that liberals and conservatives are diametrically opposed is totally detached from reality.  There has never been a single instance of any conservative anywhere doing anything remotely conservative, the way you seem to define it.

You choose to deny reality with your labels.   I incorporate reality in mine, which is a big difference between us.

I'll not fight for the charade,  finance it, applaud it or make excuses.   How about you?  Are you going to enable the United State to continue down the path to ruin?   
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World/Foreign Affairs / Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Last post by Weisshaupt on Today at 02:05:47 PM »
Quote
Liberal/conservative is:

1. Statist
2. Interventionist
3. Collectivist
4. Central planning

More undefined terms but fine , I will tell you what I think they mean, shall I?

Liberal and conservative are diametrical opposites in the context of the United States.  Conservatives in the States ( not to be confused with Republicans who are a controlled opposition party) are trying to conserve the original Republic - and are therefore anti-statist, anti-central-planning and anti collectivist , whereas the "liberals" ( not to be confused with classical liberals)   are statist (as in the State is the supreme arbiter) , collectivist (as in the community comes before the individual)  and pro-central planning ( as in the government "plans" the economy)

Economic Interventionism  is of course hand in hand with central planning,

And you think that is using the terms correctly? Certainly not as the terms are used in the United States

but since you  didn't provide any context - assuming I am telepathic or something, I rather suspect this last  refers to your naive view that a country can simply become isolationist and dis-involve themselves from any conflicts. The early American founders tried that - and oddly - the other world powers didn't go along with it.  Its almost like stronger powers will mess with weaker powers, because they can.  Oh right,  that is because that is exactly what happens..

And if you ignore such things too long, it will come back to bite you. Or is it your opinion the United States should not  have intervened in WWI or WWII? After all it was a purely European problem wasn't it? Yes. Until it isn't and V2s with Nukes are raining down on North America. But maybe that wouldn't have happened? No one can see the future, so no one can really say if a policy is interventionist or not -- should they consult you first before acting? You seem to consider yourself an authority on such matters.

 If you are isolationist you are also cutting yourself off from world trade , and if you aren't ,  then at some point, the dictator you made the trade deal with is threatened by other powers.. as the many proxy wars the United States had with the USSR during the cold war can attest.

You can go live in your ideal world where that isn't the case if you like,  but one ignores reality at their peril. SO if looking out for what appears to be in the best interests of a nation is intervention ,  then sure - that is probably a facet of both Liberalism and Conservatism in the United States ( but a liberal and a conservative would have wildly different ideas about what constitutes the best interests of the nation)   However the reason it is an element of both is because its a necessary fact of life. It is the reason Russia is in involved in Syria at all. It is the reason any nation ever gets involved in the affiars of another.. because trade , or strategic concerns are weighed into the decisions.
 Ignoring such concerns will ensure that your nation won't exist for long enough for anything else to be of concern.
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World/Foreign Affairs / Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Last post by DocTrock on Today at 01:29:48 PM »
Anarcho-Capitalist/individualist politically speaking.
I reject the welfare/warfare (liberal) state and equally reject the Warfare/Welfare state (conservative.)

Oh look, undefined labels. Couldn't see that coming.
Try opening the box and start defining what each of those terms means to you in terms of principles, ideology and policy.

uhh.....just because you don't know what something means doesn't mean it is undefined.   In such cases it usually means the person demanding "labeling" is dishonest and no matter what the other person might say they won't have it.....and it can mean ignorance.  Usually---not always--- it is both.

Anarchy means something.....so does Capitalism.  Imagine melding the two together......not so hard is it?

Principles:  Individual liberty, private property,  sound (real) money,  free markets,  anti-state.
Ideology:  mixed in with principles....but it could be summed up as the Non-Aggression Principle applied to all aspects of life......Non-Interventionism is another way to describe it.
Policy: Dismantle everything.  Bring the troops home.  Legalize everything except aggression.   Government's responsibility is LIMITED to:

Court system,  weights/measures,  records, national DEFENSE.

I won't ask you to define conservatism.....too messy and ethereal.

Just because you use terms, doesn't mean you are using them correctly. I want to know what you mean by them.
You said conservatism/liberalism was the opposite end of the spectrum from you - it is not incumbent for you to describe what  that axis is based upon since it is your assertion?

Just because you don't know what a term means doesn't mean I'm not using them correctly.   I want to know what you think I mean by the term "capitalist."   Silly game.....yours.

Liberal/conservative is:

1. Statist
2. Interventionist
3. Collectivist
4. Central planning

I'm anti-state,  Non-interventionist, individualist and Laissez-faire.   (LOL, your spell check wants to correct to "bouillabaisse.")

Many people can see how being Statist is opposite Anti-state.  Can you?

Again, I answer your questions directly and succinctly.  Will you do the same if I ask one?
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World/Foreign Affairs / Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Last post by Weisshaupt on Today at 01:22:02 PM »
Anarcho-Capitalist/individualist politically speaking.
I reject the welfare/warfare (liberal) state and equally reject the Warfare/Welfare state (conservative.)

Oh look, undefined labels. Couldn't see that coming.
Try opening the box and start defining what each of those terms means to you in terms of principles, ideology and policy.

uhh.....just because you don't know what something means doesn't mean it is undefined.   In such cases it usually means the person demanding "labeling" is dishonest and no matter what the other person might say they won't have it.....and it can mean ignorance.  Usually---not always--- it is both.

Anarchy means something.....so does Capitalism.  Imagine melding the two together......not so hard is it?

Principles:  Individual liberty, private property,  sound (real) money,  free markets,  anti-state.
Ideology:  mixed in with principles....but it could be summed up as the Non-Aggression Principle applied to all aspects of life......Non-Interventionism is another way to describe it.
Policy: Dismantle everything.  Bring the troops home.  Legalize everything except aggression.   Government's responsibility is LIMITED to:

Court system,  weights/measures,  records, national DEFENSE.

I won't ask you to define conservatism.....too messy and ethereal.

Just because you use terms, doesn't mean you are using them correctly. I want to know what you mean by them.
You said conservatism/liberalism was the opposite end of the spectrum from you - it is not incumbent for you to describe what  that axis is based upon since it is your assertion?




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