Author Topic: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......  (Read 2678 times)

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Online Pandora

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On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« on: March 05, 2018, 11:36:19 AM »
Canada and Mexico do not manufacture steel, they make products from Chinese steel

Quote
I think we’ve figured out why President Trump is doing the Steel and Aluminum tariffs ahead of the NAFTA withdrawal.

... Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland stated:

    “Should restrictions be imposed on Canadian steel and aluminum products, Canada will take responsive measures to defend its trade interests and workers,” Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland said in a statement, calling any trade restrictions“absolutely unacceptable.”

The key word in that statement from Freeland is “products”. Why? because Canada doesn’t make more than a boutique amount of raw Steel.  (Top 40 List)  The Canadians, like the Mexicans, import the vast majority of their raw steel from China.  Canada then fabricates products from the Chinese steel.  This nuanced point is almost always lost on people who discuss trade.  This point of origination is also the fatal flaw within NAFTA.

In essence Canada is a brokerage for Chinese manufactured material, and NAFTA is the access trade-door exploited by China for entry into the U.S. market.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/05/understanding-why-nafta-exit-is-a-forgone-conclusion/

Quote
In its current form NAFTA became an exploited doorway into the coveted U.S. market.  Asian economic interests, large multinational corporations, invested in Mexico and Canada as a way to work around any direct trade deals with the U.S.

By shipping parts to Mexico and/or Canada; and by deploying satellite manufacturing and assembly facilities in Canada and/or Mexico; China, Asia and to a lesser extent EU corporations exploited a loophole.  Through a process of building, assembling or manufacturing their products in Mexico/Canada those foreign corporations can skirt U.S. trade tariffs and direct U.S. trade agreements.  The finished foreign products entered the U.S. under NAFTA rules.

Why deal with the U.S. when you can just deal with Mexico, and use NAFTA rules to ship your product directly into the U.S. market?

This exploitative approach, a backdoor to the U.S. market, was the primary reason for massive foreign investment in Canada and Mexico; it was also the primary reason why candidate Donald Trump, now President Donald Trump, wanted to shut down that loophole and renegotiate NAFTA.

This loophole was the primary reason for U.S. manufacturers to relocate operations to Mexico.  Corporations within the U.S. Auto-Sector could enhance profits by building in Mexico or Canada using parts imported from Asia/China.  The labor factor was not as big a part of the overall cost consideration as cheaper parts and imported raw materials.

... As soon as President Trump withdrew from TPP the problem with the Canada and Mexico loophole grew.  All corporations from TPP nations would now have an option to exploit the same NAFTA loophole.

Why ship directly to the U.S., or manufacturer inside the U.S., when you could just assemble in Mexico and Canada and use NAFTA to bring your products to the ultimate goal, the massive U.S. market?

This information makes the issue a little more clear, doesn't it.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2018, 12:04:50 PM »
So, Mexico and Canada are pissed at us because we decided we didn't want to be f**ked over by our neighbors who were getting rich off of us with their Chi-Com whorehouse operation as well as taking jobs away from Americans...?

Gosh, it's almost like they have an entitlement mentality not dissimilar to the dead-weight we have in this country we refer to as "democrat voters"...
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Online Pandora

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2018, 05:42:02 PM »
Aaaand, Mark Levin does not get it.  At all. 
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Online paulh

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2018, 05:06:20 AM »
Aaaand, Mark Levin does not get it.  At all.

He was on a roll last nite. So where is he wrong?

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 09:19:46 AM »
I thought the information in my first post was self-explanatory in that regard.  Do you not agree?
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Online paulh

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2018, 11:26:17 AM »
I thought the information in my first post was self-explanatory in that regard.  Do you not agree?

 ::thinking::

Offline patentlymn

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2018, 05:01:28 PM »

Any time Trump does anything people run around with their hair on fire screaming that the world will end.

Some people treat unhindered global trade as some religious dogma not suceptible of disproof or empirical evidence. I am sure any tariffs have winners and losers within the US. I am sure the world NOT will end because of this.

There should be some sort of Godwin's law for economics. The first person who says "Smoot Hawley" loses the argument.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 04:02:09 PM by patentlymn »
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online ToddF

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2018, 07:19:33 PM »
Once again Trump is playing 4-D chess in a world where 99% of journalists can only think 2-D, tops.  That is far and away the best explanation of what is going on.

Offline Libertas

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2018, 06:29:16 AM »
Once again Trump is playing 4-D chess in a world where 99% of journalists can only think 2-D, tops.  That is far and away the best explanation of what is going on.

Same dynamic that aided him to flank the E-GOP in Primaries and Blitzkrieg the entire D-MC/DeepState cabal in the general election.

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 07:00:14 AM »
Yesterday, during the presser with the Swedish PM, Trump outright said the tariffs were a response to the NAFTA/Free ::snort:: Trade shenanigans being played by Canada and Mexico regarding Chinese steel and Chinese steel products.
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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2018, 10:57:54 AM »
One Chinese billionaire controls almost 20% of the world's aluminum supply, and controls access to it and the price of it by using NAFTA to funnel it into the US.

This has to change, and Trump is right. If he has to threaten to blow everything up with tariffs to convince the world he's serious, I support his effort.
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Online John Florida

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2018, 12:16:08 PM »
One Chinese billionaire controls almost 20% of the world's aluminum supply, and controls access to it and the price of it by using NAFTA to funnel it into the US.

This has to change, and Trump is right. If he has to threaten to blow everything up with tariffs to convince the world he's serious, I support his effort.

 Hells Bells we already gave up all our electronics to Japan were slowly giving up our appliances to S.Korea we don't even make a light bulb in this country anymore China makes all of them.  We used to have 100s of steel mills and were down around a dozen or so lets give them up and let China have them so that we can't build ships tanks and weapons and lets give up any hope of building planes and were all done!  Defenseless!
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Offline Libertas

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2018, 12:17:51 PM »
I like what Trump is doing, and all it cost so far was an asshole from Goldman-Sachs.
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Offline patentlymn

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2018, 04:15:29 PM »

Former Minnesota boy, Vox Day, writes on the tarrif issue. Pat Buchannan writes a good piece as well.
If Trump pissed off Gary Cohn and Wall Street that is just an added benefit IMO.

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/03/us-tariffs-and-trade-war.html

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/03/main-street-first.html

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/03/free-traders-freak-out.html

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/03/the-trump-tariffs-and-economic.html

http://www.unz.com/pbuchanan/why-is-the-gop-terrified-of-tariffs/
Why Is the GOP Terrified of Tariffs?
PAT BUCHANAN • MARCH 6, 2018
• 800 WORDS • 62 COMMENTS
From Lincoln to William McKinley to Theodore Roosevelt, and from Warren Harding through Calvin Coolidge, the Republican Party erected the most awesome manufacturing machine the world had ever seen.

And, as the party of high tariffs through those seven decades, the GOP was rewarded by becoming America’s Party.

Thirteen Republican presidents served from 1860 to 1930, and only two Democrats. And Grover Cleveland and Woodrow Wilson were elected only because the Republicans had split.

Why, then, this terror of tariffs that grips the GOP?
...
How have EU nations run up endless trade surpluses with America? By imposing a value-added tax, or VAT, on imports from the U.S., while rebating the VAT on exports to the USA. Works just like a tariff.
...
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online Pandora

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2018, 04:41:32 PM »
I like what Trump is doing, and all it cost so far was an asshole from Goldman-Sachs.

A theory I read:  Trump brings people on board for a specific purpose; once that purpose is accomplished, ciao.

Cohn was on board to shepherd the tax cuts, but he has/had a problem with the tariffs.  Tax cuts done, so ciao.

Wilbur Ross is on board to deal with the tariff issue.

Seems logical to me.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Online John Florida

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2018, 04:55:03 PM »

Former Minnesota boy, Vox Day, writes on the tarrif issue. Pat Buchannan writes a good piece as well.
If Trump pissed off Gary Cohn and Wall Street that is just an added benefit IMO.

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/03/us-tariffs-and-trade-war.html

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/03/main-street-first.html

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/03/free-traders-freak-out.html

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/03/the-trump-tariffs-and-economic.html

http://www.unz.com/pbuchanan/why-is-the-gop-terrified-of-tariffs/
Why Is the GOP Terrified of Tariffs?
PAT BUCHANAN • MARCH 6, 2018
• 800 WORDS • 62 COMMENTS
From Lincoln to William McKinley to Theodore Roosevelt, and from Warren Harding through Calvin Coolidge, the Republican Party erected the most awesome manufacturing machine the world had ever seen.

And, as the party of high tariffs through those seven decades, the GOP was rewarded by becoming America’s Party.

Thirteen Republican presidents served from 1860 to 1930, and only two Democrats. And Grover Cleveland and Woodrow Wilson were elected only because the Republicans had split.

Why, then, this terror of tariffs that grips the GOP?
...
How have EU nations run up endless trade surpluses with America? By imposing a value-added tax, or VAT, on imports from the U.S., while rebating the VAT on exports to the USA. Works just like a tariff.
...

 Because they're getting paid by lobbyists you don't thing for one hot second they're protecting us no matter what they say. Ask yourself how do we maintain a flippeing military without materials to build equipment??  YOU CAN'T  !! ::pullhair::
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Online John Florida

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2018, 04:55:58 PM »
I like what Trump is doing, and all it cost so far was an asshole from Goldman-Sachs.

A theory I read:  Trump brings people on board for a specific purpose; once that purpose is accomplished, ciao.

Cohn was on board to shepherd the tax cuts, but he has/had a problem with the tariffs.  Tax cuts done, so ciao.

Wilbur Ross is on board to deal with the tariff issue.

Seems logical to me.

  Keep the employee count down. 
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Offline Libertas

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2018, 10:11:44 AM »
I like what Trump is doing, and all it cost so far was an asshole from Goldman-Sachs.

A theory I read:  Trump brings people on board for a specific purpose; once that purpose is accomplished, ciao.

Cohn was on board to shepherd the tax cuts, but he has/had a problem with the tariffs.  Tax cuts done, so ciao.

Wilbur Ross is on board to deal with the tariff issue.

Seems logical to me.

  Keep the employee count down.

Taking flack means you are on target.  And appointee's are a dime a dozen.  Cohn should know what churning is!

  ;D
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Offline Libertas

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Re: On steel and aluminum tariffs .......
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2018, 01:20:12 PM »
So-called "trade war" heats up.

Basically, China has exploited us, exploited NAFTA...basically has had a field day with us for a long time and everybody was too much of a coward to start dealing with it.  Between Clinton letting them have tech secrets and everybody letting them run over us for decades a pushback was bound to happen...needed to happen.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/06/china-will-not-hesitate-with-major-response-to-new-tariffs-ministry-of-commerce.html

China I believe will hurt itself, especially with food imports from us, what little arable land they have is already producing...they cannot feed the masses without foreign food and we are the breadbasket of the world.  They can go elsewhere, that will take time and there is no guarantee of delivery.

And this -

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,3910.new.html#new

- is no big deal.
Irrumabo!  GOP? - Nope. No more. They made their bed, now let them die in it.*
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