Author Topic: 5% Growth Strategy  (Read 2007 times)

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charlesoakwood

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5% Growth Strategy
« on: May 28, 2011, 10:36:44 AM »

It's About Liberty link to:
 Erick Cantor's 5% Growth Strategy


[blockquote]House Majority Leader Eric Cantor turned the policy temperature down on austerity this week by rolling out a strong economic-growth agenda. Headlined by a 25 percent top tax rate for individuals and business, the Cantor package includes regulatory relief, free trade, and patent protection for entrepreneurs. It’s job creation and the economy, stupid.

Sounds Reaganesque? Well, Eric Cantor has a lot of Reagan blood in him. ...
...
In fact, it looks like Cantor is restoring the supply-side incentive model of economic growth. Forget tax-the-rich class warfare. Throw out wild-eyed government-spending stimulus and dollar-depreciating Fed money-pumping. Make it pay more after tax to work, produce, and invest. Go for a growth spurt, something the economy badly needs. And — my thought — crown such a growth strategy with a stable King Dollar re-linked to gold.

__ Larry Kudlow
 [/blockquote]

Read: Erick Cantor's 5% Growth Strategy


Offline rickl

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Re: 5% Growth Strategy
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2011, 11:15:15 AM »
Sounds good, but it won't work without massive cuts to entitlements.  I can't wait to see Karl Denninger tear into it.  He thinks the Ryan plan is bogus, too.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: 5% Growth Strategy
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2011, 11:57:56 AM »
So assuming no inflation from the giant monetary base that is already printed, the CBOs 6% growth in entitlements , a freeze in spending at current Tax revenue at 2.6 trillion (so thats 1.5 trillion in cuts) , and a 5% growth rate in GDP ( which would be near impossible to sustain for the time scale we are considering, but just for fun) we find:



The National Deficit maxes out at around 17.5 Trillion in 2024 or so for this to work  we have to borrow another 3.5 trillion over the next 12 years - and that is AFTER making reducing spending to current revenue.. thats 291 Billion a year.. a good sized Bush Deficit - for 12 years.  It might be enough to avoid complete collapse, but the credit markets have aready abandoned us, and the only reason Bond yields ( and thus interest on the debt) isn't higher is because the Fed is creating artifical demand by buying the bonds themselves- in effect growing the monetary base and creating real inflation - and more pressure on bond rates to rise, forcing the Fed to buy more of the debt we put out. 

But lets say, for some reason, 1.5 trillion in cuts and a spending freeze isn't politically likely in year one  , and we reduce that spending by 10% EVERY YEAR.
Then we see this (again without interest rate increases) :



So the debt is almost close to turning around 30 years from now and we only need to borrow another 866 billion a year.  But say somehow we push on Hauser a bit and can get 20% ( th calculations do change a lot with a small change in this value) - then the debt turns around in 2024 at around 25 Trillion so we only need to borrow another trillion a year for 10 years to make that happen. In the first example a collection of 20% and a spending freeze  and 5% growth ralmost balances the budget.

Of course we are assuming that the government continues to borrow at 3% for this period. During a recovery, a lot more of the money supply will get loaned out, and if we are to avoid the GDP growth killing aspect of  hyper inflation we need to raise that rate - but 3 is really low, so lets raise it to 6% - enough that it doesn't really hurt recovery and GDP growth but not crushing like 12% or higher would be.  Then we see this:



Cantor's plan is a fine start and a great idea if you can implement it, but it WILL NOT cure our ills without alos makeing huge (an unlikley)  cuts somewhere.  . The giant monetary base and the loss of creditors willig to buy our bonds has made any more borrowing difficult, and there there is he very real difficulty in gettign a 5% growth rate in that environment, much less averaging that over a 12 year period.

charlesoakwood

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Re: 5% Growth Strategy
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2011, 01:03:24 PM »

You'll have to take it up with Kudlow.


Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: 5% Growth Strategy
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2011, 04:08:30 PM »
You'll have to take it up with Kudlow.

Kudlow pretty much says the same thing (emphasis mine)

Quote
When I interviewed Cantor this week, he made it clear that faster economic growth was crucial to holding down spending, deficits, and debt. As scored by the CBO, every 1 percent of faster growth lowers the budget gap by nearly $3 trillion from lower spending and higher revenues. “Grow the economy,” Cantor said. “It will help us manage-down the deficit and it will help get people back to work.”This is not to say that spending cuts and structural entitlement reforms aren’t necessary. They are. But it is to argue that lately the GOP has forgotten the growth component that is so essential to spending restraint and deficit reduction.

The point is the Status Quo is unsustainable, and even 5% growth is insufficient to meet our obligations in the short term. Cantor's ideas are fine, as are Ryan's reforms to try and control costs. But we will be another 3 trillion in debt before they ever have a chance of getting those ideas implemented, and there is  a decent chance that Borat the wonder bunny will be around another 6 years, and if that happens be prepared to add another 6-9 Trillion in debt to bring us to someting close to 200% debt to GDP.

And even if these programs are started sooner rather than later, you need about a decade of growth and more deficit spending before we reach a point where we can actually start reducing the deficit.  With the Bond Market/Money Supply time bomb sitting out there, and on a much shorter fuse, I just don't see how they will purchase the time required to fix this - the magnitude of the problem is simply too great. to overcome without drastic measures, and the people are not to the point where they will accept those measures , and won't be till things get much, much worse.


charlesoakwood

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Re: 5% Growth Strategy
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2011, 05:11:46 PM »
You'll have to take it up with Kudlow.

Kudlow pretty much says the same thing (emphasis mine)

Quote
When I interviewed Cantor this week, he made it clear that faster economic growth was crucial to holding down spending, deficits, and debt. As scored by the CBO, every 1 percent of faster growth lowers the budget gap by nearly $3 trillion from lower spending and higher revenues. “Grow the economy,” Cantor said. “It will help us manage-down the deficit and it will help get people back to work.”This is not to say that spending cuts and structural entitlement reforms aren’t necessary. They are. But it is to argue that lately the GOP has forgotten the growth component that is so essential to spending restraint and deficit reduction.

The point is the Status Quo is unsustainable, and even 5% growth is insufficient to meet our obligations in the short term. Cantor's ideas are fine, as are Ryan's reforms to try and control costs. But we will be another 3 trillion in debt before they ever have a chance of getting those ideas implemented, and there is  a decent chance that Borat the wonder bunny will be around another 6 years, and if that happens be prepared to add another 6-9 Trillion in debt to bring us to someting close to 200% debt to GDP.

And even if these programs are started sooner rather than later, you need about a decade of growth and more deficit spending before we reach a point where we can actually start reducing the deficit.  With the Bond Market/Money Supply time bomb sitting out there, and on a much shorter fuse, I just don't see how they will purchase the time required to fix this - the magnitude of the problem is simply too great. to overcome without drastic measures, and the people are not to the point where they will accept those measures , and won't be till things get much, much worse.



Kudlow, in the article, said we could have 5% growth now.


Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: 5% Growth Strategy
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2011, 08:56:02 PM »
Kudlow, in the article, said we could have 5% growth now.

If the Cantor Package passes - which would be a bit unlikely with Dems still controlling the Senate and Obama in position to Veto. Canto also was calling for 1 Trillion in cuts and thinking that was possible. Assuming he is right and they could get them- we would still be deficit spending because Obama is running 1.5-2 trillion deficits a year ( again, tel lme its not deliberate!) The GOP could set a 5% growth target right now- but without the legislation to set the American people free to do actually do that, growth won't happen no mater how high you want to see it.  And the debt itself  serves as a drag on growth:  http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2011/05/hidden-cost-of-united-states-national.html

Quote
That effective increase in the yield on U.S. Treasuries in turn has real economic consequences. In April 2011, the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston estimated that a 1% decrease in the 10-Year U.S. Treasury yield would increase U.S. GDP by 2.65%, as this benchmark rate effectively sets the base for many interest rates in the U.S. economy, such as for mortgages or any other borrowing activity, which get cheaper when the yield of the 10-Year U.S. Treasury falls. This multiplier effect also works in reverse. A 1% increase in the 10-Year Treasury yield would act decrease U.S. GDP by 2.65%. In the case of when the effective yield of a 10-Year U.S. Treasury is increased by 0.4%, as we've estimated, the effect will be to decrease U.S. GDP by roughly 1.0%. This phenomenon might go a long way toward explaining why the U.S. economic recovery following this latest recession has been so sluggish compared to previous recessions. Extremely elevated national debt levels driven by the U.S. federal government's excessive level of spending and the small increase in the risk of default they portend might be robbing the federal government's series of economic stimulus measures of effectiveness and could very well be holding the U.S. economy back from making a more robust recovery.  At the end of the fourth quarter of 2010, U.S. GDP stood at $14.9 trillion. If U.S. GDP has been decreased by 1.0% of that figure, we find that the hidden cost of having the U.S. national debt skyrocket in recent years to be roughly $1.5 trillion. Just in 2010 alone.
That figure coincidentally happens to be the projected deficit for the U.S. government in 2011, so Americans can continue to expect that the shackles of the national debt will continue to hold them down.

5% might be possible with the right reforms, but even if we are optimistic these things will get enacted, we are realistically still a year and a half away, and Obama and the other Democrats are doing everything they can to ensure we don't get that chance. They are grinning from ear to ear at the mess they put us in, confident we won't sort it out in time.


 I am not trying to bust your chops over this CO,  and I support Cantor's efforts and admire your optimism, but at this point its going to take an actual miracle. I believe in miracles, but I lack the faith that would allow me to count on them.




Online ToddF

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Re: 5% Growth Strategy
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2011, 08:08:05 AM »
Anymore, I think a few % in the tax rate either way is pretty meaningless in the whole scope of things?  Which will be more of a factor in opening a business?

A.  25% vs 35% tax tate.
B.  Extreme excessive regulation, with more to come vs. regulation levels of, say. 1980
C.  The United States legal system with regards to liability, vs Asia, or even Europe
D.  Self imposed energy starvation vs. a country such as China, building a power plant per day.
E.  Printing $1.6 trillion per year to support $3.8 trillion in spending.

IMHO, A is the least of our worries, anymore.


Offline Glock32

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Re: 5% Growth Strategy
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2011, 08:19:26 AM »
Anymore, I think a few % in the tax rate either way is pretty meaningless in the whole scope of things?  Which will be more of a factor in opening a business?

A.  25% vs 35% tax tate.
B.  Extreme excessive regulation, with more to come vs. regulation levels of, say. 1980
C.  The United States legal system with regards to liability, vs Asia, or even Europe
D.  Self imposed energy starvation vs. a country such as China, building a power plant per day.
E.  Printing $1.6 trillion per year to support $3.8 trillion in spending.

IMHO, A is the least of our worries, anymore.



Mark Steyn has a recent article citing a figure that government regulation costs the US economy $1.75T per year, or about $250B more than the entire GDP of India. As he puts it, we're sinking an entire G7 economy into government regulations every year. So yeah, I think you're right.
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Offline Predator Don

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Re: 5% Growth Strategy
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2011, 09:58:09 AM »
I always enjoy the economic threads....but the average person.... shoots straight over thier heads. The blank look. Puzzled. Bewildered.


Sure, education is the key but when faced with someone who has the "blank" look, I give them 2 simple objectives, easily understandable (but complex to administer...LOL) which needs to be done to get us going. 1) We cannot, as a nation, spend one dime more in deficit spending. Your family cannot spend more than it takes in, or you lose your stuff. If we continue, as a nation, to spend more than it takes in, everybody will lose thier stuff. Most people understand....

2) Extra taxes is not the answer to balance the gov't budget because it destroys yours...and you lose your stuff.  You cannot simply shuffle money from one place to another because eventually, it catches you. (everybody understands this concept) We must grow our economy so you earn a raise or pay less in taxes, resulting in more stuff. Since it is business who creates the jobs, maybe we should consider lowering thier taxes to prosper, just as you would if your taxes were lower.

I know...I know...Way to simplistic, but I have family members who need this simplicity in order to begin to understand what this blessed President is doing.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: 5% Growth Strategy
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2011, 04:54:41 PM »

Offline Predator Don

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Re: 5% Growth Strategy
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2011, 05:55:31 PM »
More commentary on the 5% idea

http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2011/06/08/pawlentys-5-percent-solution/



I like the plan and I can appreciate the goal. Instead of speaking of raising the retirement age, we need to be implementing a plan to phase out social (in)security and allow individuals to invest the funds....Then we do not need a retirement age. Why do we feel compelled to hold onto failed policy.

Spending must stop. I don't know how we corral it, the horse is way out of the barn and we seem hellbent to fall into insolvency....But I'm not in the camp of "just allow it to implode", so we must take sound plans like Ryans and Pawlentys, implement them and allow the American people to do what we do best.

It's ironic. Our ingenuity, the American spirit, can create the jobs and growth for the country to prosper....But its the same people who send idiots to Washington who spend, literally, like there is no tomarrow.

I'm not always engulfed in scandals, but when I am, I make sure I blame others.