Topic: Skipping College

[trapeze]

LINK

Interesting article (and if my son decides to read it I will have some qualifying points to make to him personally).

I agree with most of it. Like this:

BAs are today what high school diplomas used to be: that is, so commonplace that not having one makes no difference if you’re a genius, an energetic entrepreneur, or both.

Then these two:

They’ve been told all their lives that getting a degree meant they’d be guaranteed a job after graduation. Their guidance counselors had the charts and graphs to prove it!

...if your guidance counselor is so smart, how come he’s just a guidance counselor…?

But this just about sums the whole thing up:

Clarey gets his students to list all the things they want or plan to buy in the near future. Predictably, they write down things like cars, gas, phones, and computers.

Then he asks them what they’re majoring in. Also predictably, they respond: Sociology. Women’s Studies. Political Science. Psychology. Education.

He notes:

Nobody was willing to study the fields that ultimately produced these items. (…) Everyone wanted gas, but not one petroleum engineer was in the group.

Clarey adds:

Also ironic was how there were so many sociology majors, but not one person listed “social work” in their wish list. There was always the token women’s studies major, but I have yet to see a student ask Santa for a lecture on women’s studies.

Exactly.

So, when my son (or my daughter) decides to start college (or not), my counsel will be that they either focus on a degree that actually is IN DEMAND or just not go and work along side all of the other philosophy and sociology majors at the local shopping mall.

Long essay. Well written. You should read it.  Or better, counsel anyone who is thinking about going to college to read it.

Career Home Study

[trapeze]

Really good reader comment beneath the above quoted article:

I was the first male to graduate from college in my family’s history. And my ancestors immigrated to Texas in 1844.

My first degree was in biology. I thought I wanted to be a national parks ranger or something. Until I found out how much that job pays and I decided to become a teacher. Better pay, summer vacations, that sort of thing.

I taught science for six years. Then I realized that the vast majority of students could not read or write, so I went back to college and earned the hated English degree. I later went to graduate school and earned an even more hated master’s degree in British Romantic Poetry and the Humanities. I don’t regret it, even though I’m still paying off my student loans.

Today I’m selling real estate, which if you’ve been paying attention to the economy is a tough row to hoe. But it’s not out of choice, rather it’s out of necessity. My father died of cancer ten years ago, and I had to resign from teaching to help my mother because she owns the company.

I enjoyed my years in college. I learned a lot. I enjoyed my years teaching. I like to think I taught my students well.

Still, the fact remains that many people don’t need a college degree. Unless you’re pursuing a professional career, such as doctor, lawyer, accountant, teacher–something that requires a degree–you’re better off going to trade school. I mean, they can’t outsource mechanics, electricians, plumbers, and the like.

The best place to go when you don’t have any money is to work. It may not be at a job you aspired to or even enjoy, but that’s life. I have a friend who lives in Denver. He’s a golf pro. Needless to say, his business isn’t doing very well in this economy. He’s currently unemployed. He called last year to complain that none of the jobs he applied to paid more than $7/hour. I told him, $7/hour is a hell of a lot better than $0/hour.

In our business, a college degree is not required. In fact, I’m the only one in the office that has one, and I have three. But when we hire a new secretary or assistant, we give them this simple 100 question test. It’s mainly basic spelling and math. You’d be surprised how many college graduates cannot pass it.

We deal with millions of dollars of property every year. We cannot afford to give a job to someone who cannot pass a simple spelling and math test. That ought to tell you how much a typical college degree is worth.

Give me average with heart, and I’ll beat a team of prima donnas every Sunday. A college degree is meaningless, if you don’t have the skills to back it up.

Again, the problem here is not with the degree. It’s with the curriculum. If you cannot spell or write a complete sentence, if you cannot read with understanding or perform simple math, then who is going to hire you? We deal with contracts, legally binding contracts. Someone mispells a street name, or inverts a street number, or otherwise misprints an offer, we’re looking at treble damages. That would be three times the value of the house sold, for those of you who do not know. Would you, if you were in our position, hire someone who cannot spell or perform simple math?

Do not blame your teachers. They were hamstrung. Blame the administrators and politicians who corrupted the curriculum. When I went to school, we had spelling tests, vocabulary tests, sentence diagramming tests, and math tests every week. Back then, school was hard. And I hated my teachers, but now I’ve grown to love them. I can pass a simple spelling and math test. I can also pass a licensing exam.

[LadyVirginia]

My daughter is about to complete her master's degree.  She readily admits that even as recent as 10 years ago she wouldn't have needed a grad degree to get the job she wants.  Now she can't get an interview without it.  She also readily admits she picked a school that gave her the most money so that the degree (and living expenses) didn't cost her anything.  

(edit:
Are parents prepared to help and encourage their children to fulfill their potential in a manner that doesn't require a college degree? A college degree is looked upon as the golden ticket.)

[IronDioPriest]

My daughter has a degree in social work and family studies. She earns a pittance as a Mary Kay rep (successful as far as Mary Kay reps go, got the car, etc).

So far, the value of her education is completely intangible, and the debt is completely concrete.

[Alphabet Soup]

I don't think that there's any magic formula - other than preaching to your kids to "stay in school" and praying for the best.

I always only ever wanted to be a musician. I was a straight-A student right up until high school and then started messing up. After being expelled (I'll skip the sordid stuff) I went onto a program that allowed me to graduate early or get a head start at a vocational school. Some little nagging voice told me to stay in school so I chose the latter.

I worked at performing for several years and held odd jobs when I could find them. It wasn't until I was in my late 30's that I went back to school.

Would I have avoided a whole bunch of trauma, drama, and disappointment if I had gone to college like my dad wanted me to? I doubt it. It would have helped if I had had a clearer (and more realistic) idea of what I wanted to do when I grow up (I'm still pondering that).

Edit: altard-proofed

[Sectionhand]

Oh hell ... as far back as 1969 when I entered college , I looked around and saw a ton of my classmates who had no business on God's green earth being there ... and things haven't changed much except that the standards are a hell of a lot lower . Anybody have any figures on current college drop-out rates ?

[Predator Don]

I believe in going to college......but with the advent of so many liberal degrees which are meaningless and turn you into zombies (aka OWS), my guidance for my son was to overlook thier political thoughts and concentrate your studies toward something you can use. So he is a business major.

The problem with college today is you must be unmotivated to not pass or finish, it is so easy, with open book tests, on line courses, grading curves, etc.

So when i used to look for prospective hires, if they dropped out, it is an indication of no motivation. I'll take motivated over a degree any day.

[Glock32]

I had a number of classes where group assignments were frequent (I have a whole separate rant about the banality of group work in education) and that is when you really, painfully, become aware of the intellectual ineptitude of so many students. I would read things written by others, and so often not just the grammar and syntax, but the logical constructs, were virtually unintelligible. The educrats have really done a disservice to students, and to the country as a whole. I would say their worst offense is not so much the lack of particular knowledge, but the totally incurious state of mind they produce. These kids were not only ignorant, they had no interest in improvement.

There is still a font of knowledge in a university, but it's very much a proposition of getting out of it what you're willing to put into it...and that's before you even take into account the deliberate obstruction and obfuscation by the Left.

[benb61]

I am a non-degreed engineer, my actual paygrade at work is "Engineer-Scientist 4".  I joined the USAF after High school and spent 4 years as a B-52 aircrew member, actually a "Combat Aircrew Member".  After that I moved to Ca and went brain-dead.  I spent about 6 years in the retail industry starting as a night clerk/janitor at a convenience store to being a U-Haul Center General Manager (I ran the highest profiting (at the time) U-Haul center in San Diego county).  However U-Haul was not a well run corporation and when I got a peek behind the curtain I decided to quit.  There I was 28 years old and out of work (by my own choice).  While up late one night I saw an ad on TV, "Get your drafting certificate today!".  Sounded good so I signed up for ABC Tech the next day.  6 months of drafting training, including learning AutoCAD4, and I was hired by a small aerospace company in San Diego.  Fast forward 22 years and I work for one of the biggest aerospace companies in the world making excellent scratch. Still no degree.  Experience and a willingness to take on any task tossed my way have helped me to get where I am today.  I am classified as a Configuration Engineer and I work on spacecraft and enjoy nearly every second of it (after all it is still work).  I have taken some college classes but just the classes I wanted to take.  I think the best lesson I have ever learned in my life though was something they said in basic training in the Air Force.  "We don't expect you to be perfect, but we do expect you to do the best you can", I have lived my life from that point on doing the best I can, and it shows.

[LadyVirginia]

"We don't expect you to be perfect, but we do expect you to do the best you can", I have lived my life from that point on doing the best I can, and it shows.

 


It's not just about going or not going, it's the attitude.  A college degree is the golden ticket.  Or was and now many, many people have no idea how to help their kids because they used a golden ticket instead of their heads and hard work.