Author Topic: 4th Circuit Court of Appeals: Open Carry does NOT equal reasonable suspicion  (Read 1013 times)

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Offline IronDioPriest

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This is a very well put together article explaining the court's decision defending the 2nd Amendment via the 4th Amendment. In short, cops cannot search you because you or someone you're with are carrying openly when it is legal to do so. Cops cannot assume an openly carried firearm as being carried illegally as their default assumption.

I encourage you all to read the whole thing, because there have quite clearly been many police actions recently that fall WAY outside this ruling.

FOURTH CIRCUIT FINDS THAT CARRYING A FIREARM IN AN OPEN-CARRY STATE DOES NOT CREATE REASONABLE SUSPICION AND PROVIDES THOROUGH ANALYSIS OF THE "FREE TO LEAVE" STANDARD OF SEIZURE
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Wow, what a mixed bag!

We'll never know what Mr. Black was up to because of the sloppy arrest but we do know that he was a felon illegally carrying a firearm. The consequence of a ruling like this is that it will no doubt be more difficult for cops to harass armed citizens but it will also result in more bad guys being passed over.

Offline warpmine

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While I'm very happy with the news, I'm saddened as well. Mr. Black should not have been carrying a firearm but at the same time if their brethren were not such pieces of scat to begin with, carrying out carnage upon his community at a horrific rate, none of this would be necessary.

It comes down to the basic constitutional protections our Founding Fathers put in place at the beginning so that none would have to endure the harshness of over zealous government but here we are. We have a people that have strayed so far from the Bible's teachings that we have fully embraced that we must live with the intent to do harm by the criminal element because we cannot see logically the danger.  ::cussing::We have to give every criminal a second chance without even issuing real punishment for the first criminal act therefore, the criminal thinks only that the incarceration or probation of the first act was merely and inconvenience thus never desiring to repent. Top this off, you have the family(s) of the criminals just coddling them to such an extent that said criminal believes that it's the "man" out to get him.

If we had embraced logic then we would all understand that even your family can be the danger and that family has a greater responsibility to come down harshly on their own family members for dishonorable transgressions. In short, we used to recognize the evil and now, rather than do something to prevent further destruction, we make excuses for it thereby condoning it.

Getting back to the subject at hand, we can clearly see that we have a police state than continues to violate our rights for protecting ourselves. Mr. Black should be allowed to carry if he feels his life may be threatened so then why is this a problem? Does society not recognize his life as anything of value? Did he not repent for his prior crime(without specifics I don't know whether the crime was one that involved a gun) in a significant manner(never enough time in prison without possibility of self examination and guidance from a man of the cloth{and I don't mean an Imam}).

There was always a good possibility that a man or woman could be returned to society that is if society valued the teachings of the Holy Bible if we put effort into punishment and rehabilitation however, with society as being such as it is today this will never happen because as a whole, we are no longer that which is a religious one. If there was a place to go I think most of us would but there isn't any where a fresh start is possible. Enjoy the show and popcorn ::popcorn:: as we slide further into the abyss.
Remember, four boxes keep us free:
The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline warpmine

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Wow, what a mixed bag!

We'll never know what Mr. Black was up to because of the sloppy arrest but we do know that he was a felon illegally carrying a firearm. The consequence of a ruling like this is that it will no doubt be more difficult for cops to harass armed citizens but it will also result in more bad guys being passed over.
Passed over, yes because we are inadequate to deal with transgressors as our servants in government making hard choices reducing the cost of it. As Christians we believe in second chances and repentance but since as a whole, we're no longer a religious people, we have to have a police state for the "protection" of society. ::puke::
Remember, four boxes keep us free:
The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline Libertas

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Bad guys would be "passed over" if police didn't assume all weapons carried by citizens is bad and did more to promote legal carry by citizens and incorporated their rights as a support to law enforcement in getting the bad guys.  As it is bad guys are being passed over all the time and the police are primarily a reaction to crime not a deterent of, so if we are left with a few bad guys getting a pass to ensure we are all not harassed for exercising our rights then that is the way it will be.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.