Author Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine  (Read 247783 times)

0 Members and 901 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline patentlymn

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5892
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2600 on: January 13, 2025, 10:46:50 AM »


Heard that Ukr tried to attack the Turkstream pipeline with 8 drones but they got shot down. Attack was  in Russian part of pipeline at a compressor station. First they end gas transit to EU through Ukraine.

How to make friends and influence people.
Turkstream feeds
Turkey: The primary recipient and transit hub for TurkStream. One of the two lines supplies natural gas directly to Turkey's domestic market.

European Countries (via the second pipeline):

    Bulgaria: A major entry point for gas flowing into Europe from TurkStream.
    Serbia: Receives gas from TurkStream via the Balkan Stream (an extension of the pipeline).
    Hungary: Receives gas through connections further along the network.
    North Macedonia: Also benefits from the pipeline infrastructure.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline patentlymn

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5892
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2601 on: January 13, 2025, 10:55:35 AM »


Yes that Ukr RU pattern  is interesting. 1.6 m Ukr to Poland makes sense.. I knew that lots of people went from Ukr to  RU. But why move from RU to a country at war with a crappy economy? I have seen several videos from people who did not like the SMO who moved from RU to Georgia. I recall some guy who makes ancient musical instruments moved from RU to Armenia. Business people who export to the west from RU were hit by sanctions.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline patentlymn

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5892
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2602 on: January 13, 2025, 12:00:36 PM »

Some Slovak MPs flew to Russia to discuss possible Russian gas supplies after Ukr cot off transit. Poland refused over flight so they took a long route.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline patentlymn

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5892
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2603 on: January 13, 2025, 01:37:07 PM »



I saw that Ukr hit some oil or fuel storage sites in Russia. That makes military sense.

I keep noticing the spiteful nature of the Kiev faction. It often seems that their actions are driven by hate rather than a desire for wealth, land, power or other normal goals. None of this comes from Russian govt sources.

The Roman and Ottoman empires lasted so long because they were greedy and practical. Messing with ruled people's language,, religion, and culture caused trouble which interfered with their goal of extracting wealth and miking the conquered people.  I have noticed that Kiev messes with all three with no real gains to themselves.

I recently saw that Ukr had used 6 himars to hit a market in Donetsk City. The himars have to be operated by US personnel either active duty or on contract. There is no military purpose in that.

 Ukr had been hitting markets on Donetsk  City with artillery since 2014. I recall Kiev personnel being asked on video long ago why they are doing that. They said they wanted to drive 'Russians' from their sacred land. I am not sure of the difference between so called Ukrainians and so called Russians but they are both been on the  land in Ukraine for hundreds of years.

Kiev reported on some resident who remained behind when Russians withdrew as he was loyal to the Kiev faction. They reported they threw him in prison because he had carried a ballot box to earn some money when the Russians were there.

Kiev reported on some laws they passed to punish collaborators, either prison terms or labor gangs, when the retook their territories.Then they followed this with an announcement that collaborators were entitled to  due process..  .There is no special law for teachers but social media posts indicate a real hatred for teachers as they teach from the Russian curriculum not the constantly revised Ukrainian curriculum.

Some people  in the Russian controlled areas traded dairy products for Russian dry goods. Kiev considered this collaboration. Russians withdrew from Bucha early on. The mayor announced a "cleansing operation" and many civilians were found arranged along the road many shot in the head. Kiev blamed the Russians. That was reported by the MSM but later the MSM backed off. A french reporter  said he saw the Kiev troops arranging bodies along the road (for visual effect). Over a year or two later I saw a video from one of the Kiev troops showing them arranging the bodies using ropes looped around their feet.




When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline patentlymn

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5892
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2604 on: January 13, 2025, 08:09:57 PM »
Note sure  if this is accurate. Why would a sniper share this video?

https://t.me/beboandfriends/240376
🇺🇦🇷🇺??🚨 Ukrainian sniper kills civilians evacuating an area.

You can literally see that these are older people carrying their stuff in bags.

?? Ukrainians celebrate and brag about it.

comments

The fourth person was holding a Ak i would say but the rest was elderly people with bags

In an ukrainien Channeles they confirm that it was ukrainian elderly who got evacuated by russian forces and that it was the GUR who shot them
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 67914
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2605 on: January 14, 2025, 08:06:35 AM »
Stuff usually gets nasty before it ends...there are those types on all sides...and they know their time is ending...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline patentlymn

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5892
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2606 on: January 14, 2025, 12:26:07 PM »
Stuff usually gets nasty before it ends...there are those types on all sides...and they know their time is ending...

This war has social media. Very early on I watched lots. The Russians asked what got into their Slavic cousins. The Kiev faction said the Russians were subhumans and almost a different race.

Someone said they visited a town in Russia and said every person in the room had at least on Ukrainian grandparent. That is an anecdote and not scientific but the two sides view each other differently.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline patentlymn

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5892
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2607 on: January 14, 2025, 01:51:01 PM »


https://t.me/ukraine_watch/35517
🔵 Europe has begun purchasing record volumes of gas from Russia, Berliner Zeitung reports. 

"Europe is buying record volumes of Russian liquefied natural gas. Unlike the U.S., Russian LNG has not yet been sanctioned by the EU. As a result, exports are reaching record levels,"
the German newspaper states. 

According to the publication, Russia plans to triple its LNG exports to Europe by 2035
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline patentlymn

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5892
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2608 on: January 14, 2025, 04:18:12 PM »


I kept hearing Kiev faction people saying they were genetically distinct from Russians and Russians said they were all the same.
So I asked ChatGPT. It gave a long history. Also I asked about the population of the current Ukraine over time. As I suspected, the population was low in the past prior to industrialization and modern agriculture and also grew and dropped over time prior to that due to wars.

    Ethnic Ukrainians often trace their ancestry to the Eastern Slavic tribes that formed the Kievan Rus state (9th–13th centuries) and other populations in the region.
    Ethnic identity, however, is cultural and social rather than solely biological, and includes individuals who have assimilated into Ukrainian culture over generations.
   National and Ethnic Identity: Self-identification plays a significant role. Someone may identify as ethnically Ukrainian regardless of mixed ancestry if they embrace Ukrainian culture, language, and traditions.

population
Early Modern Period

    Cossack Era (~16th–18th centuries): Population growth accelerated as the Zaporozhian Cossacks established settlements, especially in the southern steppes.
    Russian Empire Control (~18th–19th centuries): The region's population grew significantly due to agricultural expansion, industrialization, and migration policies encouraging settlement by ethnic Russians, Germans, Jews, and others.

19th and Early 20th Century

    19th Century: The population grew steadily due to improved agricultural methods and the absence of major conflicts. By 1900, Ukraine's population reached around 29 million.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline patentlymn

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5892
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2609 on: January 14, 2025, 04:18:46 PM »




major cities in Ukraine

Mariupol
was officially established on September 29, 1778, during the Russian Empire's expansion into the southern territories. It was founded by Greek settlers who were relocated from the Crimean Peninsula by order of Catherine the Great after the Russo-Turkish War (1768–1774).

Kharkiv (also spelled Kharkov in Russian) was established in 1654 as a fortress settlement in the eastern part of what is now Ukraine. The city was founded during the period of expansion of the Tsardom of Russia to protect against incursions by Crimean Tatars and other forces.

Odesa (also spelled Odessa in Russian) was officially established on September 2, 1794, by order of Catherine the Great, Empress of Russia. The city was founded on the site of an earlier settlement known as Khadjibey, which had been under Ottoman control before being annexed by the Russian Empire following the Russo-Turkish War (1787–1792).

By the mid-19th century, it was the empire’s fourth-largest city and a major gateway for trade, particularly grain exports.

Kyiv (often spelled Kiev in older sources) is one of the oldest cities in Eastern Europe, with its establishment traditionally dated to 482 CE. Its exact founding date is based on legend and historical tradition rather than precise archaeological evidence.

Lviv (historically known as Lwów in Polish, Lemberg in German, and Lvov in Russian) was officially founded in 1256 by King Daniel of Galicia (Danylo Halytskyi), a ruler of the medieval Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia.

Archaeological evidence suggests that the area of modern-day Lviv was inhabited long before its official founding, with Slavic tribes settling there as early as the 5th and 6th centuries.

By the 14th century, Lviv became part of the Kingdom of Poland after the collapse of the Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia.
Under Polish rule, it flourished as a major trading hub and gained a multicultural character, with Poles, Ruthenians (Ukrainians), Jews, Armenians, and Germans contributing to its development.

In 1772, following the First Partition of Poland, Lviv (then Lemberg) became part of the Austrian Empire and later Austria-Hungary.
It remained a cultural and political center, particularly for Ukrainians and Poles, throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries.

Dnipro (formerly known as Dnipropetrovsk) was established in 1776 as a fortress called Katerynoslav (in honor of Catherine the Great of Russia).

    The area where Dnipro stands had been inhabited for centuries, with ancient settlements dating back to Scythian times.
    In the 18th century, as the Russian Empire sought to expand and consolidate its control over the Black Sea region, the city was founded as a military and administrative outpost.

    Initially, it was a small fortress meant to protect the southern borders of the empire and serve as a center for agricultural and commercial activity.
    Its location on the Dnipro River allowed it to become a strategic trading hub, further bolstering its growth.

    In 1802, the city was renamed Ekaterinoslav (or Yekaterinoslav), in honor of Empress Catherine the Great.

Donetsk was officially established in 1869 as a small settlement around the Yuzivka Iron Works (also known as the Yuzivka Plant), a major coal mining and industrial enterprise founded by the Welsh industrialist John Hughes. The settlement quickly grew into a key industrial city in the Russian Empire due to the discovery of rich coal deposits in the region.

The area where Donetsk is located had been inhabited by Cossacks and other groups long before its industrial founding.

Zaporizhzhia
was established by the Cossacks, though its formal foundation as a city occurred in the late 18th century. Initially, the area around modern Zaporizhzhia was a stronghold of the Zaporizhian Cossacks, who lived there in the 16th and 17th centuries. The Cossacks built fortifications called "sichs" on the islands in the Dnieper River, with the most famous one being the Zaporizhian Sich.

In 1770, the settlement that would later become Zaporizhzhia was officially founded as a fortress and administrative center by the Russian Empire. It was part of Catherine the Great's effort to strengthen Russian control over the southern territories of Ukraine and integrate them into the empire.

Kryvyi Rih was founded in 1775 as a small Cossack settlement. The establishment of the town is attributed to the expansion of Russian imperial control over the Ukrainian territory during the reign of Catherine the Great. It began as a settlement near the rich iron ore deposits found in the region.

The area around Kryvyi Rih had been inhabited by Cossacks, and its strategic location near valuable natural resources made it an attractive place for settlement. However, it wasn't until the late 18th century that the settlement began to grow significantly, initially due to its role in mining and metallurgy. Over time, the city's industrial development turned Kryvyi Rih into one of Ukraine's largest and most important industrial centers.






When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline patentlymn

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5892
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2610 on: January 14, 2025, 04:25:49 PM »

are ukrainians nd Russins gentically distinct
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT

Ukrainians and Russians are closely related genetically, as both groups belong to the East Slavic branch of the larger Indo-European language family. Historically, both Ukrainians and Russians share common ancestry from the medieval East Slavic peoples who lived in the region of Kievan Rus', an early medieval state that laid the foundations for modern-day Ukraine, Russia, and Belarus.

Genetically, both populations share a significant amount of overlap, particularly in terms of Y-chromosome (paternal lineage) and mitochondrial DNA (maternal lineage). However, over the centuries, the populations of Ukraine and Russia have developed some regional genetic distinctions due to factors like geographical isolation, different historical influences, and interaction with other neighboring ethnic groups.

For example, Ukrainians in western Ukraine may have more genetic influence from Central European groups due to historical connections with Poland and Austria-Hungary, while Ukrainians in the east, near Russia, may share more genetic similarities with Russians.

In summary, while Ukrainians and Russians are genetically similar due to their shared ancestry, there are some regional differences that have developed over time. These distinctions are relatively small in the context of overall genetic similarity. Language, culture, and history have played a more significant role in shaping the identity of each group.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 67914
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2611 on: January 15, 2025, 08:27:04 AM »
Switzerland and Serbia have both offered to host a potential meeting between President-elect Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin, following recent discussions about the possibility of such talks.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/switzerland-serbia-offer-host-trump-putin-ukraine-peace-talks

The end is nearing...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 67914
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2612 on: January 15, 2025, 01:16:10 PM »
Minister Lavrov reminded that President Vladimir Putin is open for talks with Trump, and Moscow wants to hear Trump’s view on Ukraine when he takes office.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/01/winds-peace-russian-foreign-minister-lavrov-praises-trump/
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 67914
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2613 on: January 15, 2025, 01:34:30 PM »
Meanwhile...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraine-again-plunged-darkness-after-huge-tit-tat-aerial-strikes

Over the next several days I expected a lot more kinetic activity...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline patentlymn

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5892
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2614 on: January 15, 2025, 02:55:31 PM »
The MSM says that RU wants to take over Ukraine and some say also other countries.
What is going to likely happen is that Russia will take over some oblasts where the majority or even a great majority of people want to be part of Russia and where Kiev has announced nasty plans for the inhabitants. Kiev wants most of the people there gone.  I included two maps to give a rough split in the country.

 Earlier on this could have been settled before the SMO by agreeing not to join NATO and to not  interfere with their language, religion, and culture. Now the  only way for that to happen is for RU to win on the battle field.  How is that worth maybe 500K Ukr dead?  Also in Feb 2022 US told RU we refused to rule out putting nuclear missiles in Ukraine.

Years ago Quebec wanted some language rights. There was not civil war. Imagine an alternative history where Ottawa punished speaking French. Then Montreal revolts and Ottawa  waged war on the Montreal faction in a civil war with the US backing Ottawa and France backing Montreal.  Then Ottawa creates a sect of the Catholic church and starts arresting Catholic priests and taking over churches in areas they control. Then Ottawa starts  removing every trace of French history and influence. That version is just too STUPID  to believe. 



Here is the 2010 presidential election results map
The parts in blue had their president run out of the country in the US backed 2014 coup. They were not happy about it.



update
In the Ukr speaking areas RU was the language used in the big cities and professions. Ukr was the language of earth and home as it was their native language most often.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2025, 03:00:17 PM by patentlymn »
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline patentlymn

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5892
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2615 on: January 15, 2025, 03:09:43 PM »



Early on in the SMO and before RU tried to get countries on their side or at least neutral.  A lot of their activities can be explained that way. Now Kiev is increasingly acting out of spite against RU and harming other countries. They recently shut off RU gas transit harming other countries. They recently tried attacking a compressor station on the Turkstream pipeline. That would have hurt many other countries. Sure it would reduce RU revenue some but what about the other countries?

If I was a resident of those countries I would be pissed off.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 67914
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2616 on: January 16, 2025, 08:13:35 AM »
Might makes right and squatting works...

But IDGAF...the war will end...one way or another...that's all that matters, rest is all BS...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 67914
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2617 on: January 16, 2025, 08:29:08 AM »
Speaking of BS...

https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/turkey-confirms-key-gas-pipeline-was-attacked-after-kremlin-accused-united-states

America bad, give bad missiles to Uke neo-nazis, waaaaa!

 ::creepycryingbaby::

Whatever...

You whack Uke power plants and whine about return fire?  New to this war stuff?   ::hysterical::

As I said, both sides will be kinetically inclined until a deal is made...get used to it...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline patentlymn

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5892
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2618 on: January 16, 2025, 11:59:40 AM »

Hurting RU is one thing. Harming a half dozen other countries that you want support from is another thing.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 67914
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2619 on: January 16, 2025, 01:16:26 PM »
They hate Russia too...should have no problem with it...

Don't like it?  Throw your leadership in the trash can!

Frankly, I don't give a damn...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.