Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine

[Libertas]

Perhaps the release of Fogel and the discussions his enjoys have had with counterparts in Russia is beginning to bear fruit...

This is interesting...

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has revealed his strategic plan for ordering the risky Kursk offensive which began last August, and has resulted in Ukraine forces holding hundreds of square kilometers of Russian territory for the past six months.

Zelensky said in comments published Tuesday that he's ready to swap territory with Russia as part of a deal to end the war. He described that if President Trump gets the warring sides to the negotiating table, "We will swap one territory for another."

The Ukrainian leader when asked in The Guardian interview precisely which territories Kiev would demand back, he responded: "I don’t know, we will see. But all our territories are important, there is no priority." Obviously he has the four annexed eastern territories in mind.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/zelensky-wants-swap-land-putin-offers-return-kursk

...but not unexpected.

Putin, however, has been consistent in saying he will never give up Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia.  But while honey-buns Maria makes light of the territory in Kursk held by the "Neo-Nazis"...there is territory held.  I don't see Ukraine giving it up for free, they paid a ton of blood to get it.  So in the end everybody probably retains what they have.  The basis for an end to the war then shifts to other considerations...with NATO being a no-no for Russia...and I don't know what they'd offer to get that guarantee...IMO they'd have to demilitarize contact lines they and their allies have contiguous to Ukraine.

Anyway...be nice to get a ceasefire and some resolution as soon as possible...  Neither of us need this stupid distraction any longer.

[Libertas]

Interesting drone lessons learned FWIW...

https://steelcutter.substack.com/p/drone-warfare-in-cw2

[Libertas]

Whoa!  I think things might be going a little quicker than I thought.  Some talking heads were hopeful of a Ukraine deal by year end...I was leaning towards summer...then these stories just broke out -

SecDef Hegseth in Brussels - https://twitter.com/i/status/1889710026325107022

No way does he say that unless authorized by POTUS, meaning he had a chat with him (likely a NSC call after the Putin-Trump call I am thinking)...this is huge and should resonate well in the Kremlin...maybe not so much in Kyiv, but they'll have to live with the best deal we can get.

The Trump-Putin call -

President Trump: “I just had a lengthy and highly productive phone call with President Vladimir Putin of Russia. We discussed Ukraine, the Middle East, Energy, Artificial Intelligence, the power of the Dollar, and various other subjects. We both reflected on the Great History of our Nations, and the fact that we fought so successfully together in World War II, remembering, that Russia lost tens of millions of people, and we, likewise, lost so many!

We each talked about the strengths of our respective Nations, and the great benefit that we will someday have in working together. But first, as we both agreed, we want to stop the millions of deaths taking place in the War with Russia/Ukraine. President Putin even used my very strong Campaign motto of, “COMMON SENSE.” We both believe very strongly in it. We agreed to work together, very closely, including visiting each other’s Nations.”


“We have also agreed to have our respective teams start negotiations immediately, and we will begin by calling President Zelenskyy, of Ukraine, to inform him of the conversation, something which I will be doing right now. I have asked Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Director of the CIA John Ratcliffe, National Security Advisor Michael Waltz, and Ambassador and Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, to lead the negotiations which, I feel strongly, will be successful.

Millions of people have died in a War that would not have happened if I were President, but it did happen, so it must end. No more lives should be lost! I want to thank President Putin for his time and effort with respect to this call, and for the release, yesterday, of Marc Fogel, a wonderful man that I personally greeted last night at the White House. I believe this effort will lead to a successful conclusion, hopefully soon!”
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2025/02/12/president-trump-outlines-his-phone-call-with-president-vladimir-putin/

This is yuuuuuuge!

Could we have an agreement by Easter? 

[patentlymn]

I have asked Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Director of the CIA John Ratcliffe, National Security Advisor Michael Waltz, and Ambassador and Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, to lead the negotiations which, I feel strongly, will be successful.

What happened to Gen. Kellogg? He has been getting criticized as the wrong guy for the job.

[patentlymn]

The big problem I see with negotiations is Minsk 1 Minsk 2, and Istanbul. Whether right or wrong the west cannot be trusted.
Also some Kiev big shot recently said that Kiev had only 6 months left. If past is prologue, the west would drag out negotiations to rearm Kiev.

This rare earth talk in kinda silly. They are dispersed and lots of mining is required to get them, not like coal. Then lots of processing is required to concentrate them.  Many years would be required to do this. China has most of the processing.

[patentlymn]

From your link on drones


I said that years ago. Even a hobbyist drone could land on a plane wing (filled with fuel) and ignite thermite.

[Libertas]

I have asked Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Director of the CIA John Ratcliffe, National Security Advisor Michael Waltz, and Ambassador and Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, to lead the negotiations which, I feel strongly, will be successful.

What happened to Gen. Kellogg? He has been getting criticized as the wrong guy for the job.

I think it is obvious...what oh what else could he be doing?

Options -

1) Backchannel activity - the traditional role of such people...  But, with Trump and Putin talking, no need for that, at present...

2) Making sure Z doesn't go off-the-reservation apesh*t-crazy...  With side calls to lunatic Eurotards in NATO, making sure they also don't go full-retard...  Being a military guy (and a hard-ass Paratrooper) seems he is a fine choice for both hotheads!  Looks like this is the winner to me...

[Libertas]

From your link on drones


I said that years ago. Even a hobbyist drone could land on a plane wing (filled with fuel) and ignite thermite.

Sure, but the non-fiber-optic ones can be dispatched with shotguns...  The bigger high-flying types and the field fiber-optic ones are a troublesome item, which is why stuff like directed energy and such are in the works...

Warfare is changing...

Wait till battlefield AI rolls out...   

[patentlymn]

From your link on drones


I said that years ago. Even a hobbyist drone could land on a plane wing (filled with fuel) and ignite thermite.

Sure, but the non-fiber-optic ones can be dispatched with shotguns...  The bigger high-flying types and the field fiber-optic ones are a troublesome item, which is why stuff like directed energy and such are in the works...

Warfare is changing...

Wait till battlefield AI rolls out...   

I was thinking more terrorist activity on a civilian airport. If I was a terrorist even I could do that. If I was a pissed off Palestinian from gaza I might be motivated. With a little bit of AI a drone could recognize an airplane wing. I am ancient white guy not a terrorist

Also, Gen. Kellogg's daughter was doing some work for Ukraine. Maybe helping wounded Ukrainian soldiers or wounded  US soldiers in Ukraine? The Russians might have objected to him. IMO he did not seek out info outside of the DC bubble. He kept repeating silly stuff.


Also Ray McGovern is a nice guy to have on in background. I play youtube via roku.  He tells old war stories from the CIA. Someone maybe Dulles wrote that if the Cubans got trapped on the beaches in Bay of Pigs JFK would have no choice but to send in US air force.  I think ray briefed Reagan daily.

He said that Biden has been fed BS on Ukraine and so was Trump until recently. So Trump has  learning curve and Rubio has very recently been making sense.  Tulsi Gabbard saw through the Iraq WMD BS  and also the Syria fake gas attacks. In her hearing she questioned the wisdom of arming AQ in Syria. As I recall they took down the WTCs.

https://youtu.be/VG-mzAIUqkQ
The Dialogue Works guy has good guests on and is low key. I think he is from middle east but lives maybe in Brazil?

https://youtu.be/VG-mzAIUqkQ
Ray McGovern: Biden vs. Trump: The TRUTH No One Dares to Say!

[Libertas]

From your link on drones


I said that years ago. Even a hobbyist drone could land on a plane wing (filled with fuel) and ignite thermite.

Sure, but the non-fiber-optic ones can be dispatched with shotguns...  The bigger high-flying types and the field fiber-optic ones are a troublesome item, which is why stuff like directed energy and such are in the works...

Warfare is changing...

Wait till battlefield AI rolls out...   

I was thinking more terrorist activity on a civilian airport. If I was a terrorist even I could do that. If I was a pissed off Palestinian from gaza I might be motivated. With a little bit of AI a drone could recognize an airplane wing. I am ancient white guy not a terrorist

Also, Gen. Kellogg's daughter was doing some work for Ukraine. Maybe helping wounded Ukrainian soldiers or wounded  US soldiers in Ukraine? The Russians might have objected to him. IMO he did not seek out info outside of the DC bubble. He kept repeating silly stuff.


Also Ray McGovern is a nice guy to have on in background. I play youtube via roku.  He tells old war stories from the CIA. Someone maybe Dulles wrote that if the Cubans got trapped on the beaches in Bay of Pigs JFK would have no choice but to send in US air force.  I think ray briefed Reagan daily.

He said that Biden has been fed BS on Ukraine and so was Trump until recently. So Trump has  learning curve and Rubio has very recently been making sense.  Tulsi Gabbard saw through the Iraq WMD BS  and also the Syria fake gas attacks. In her hearing she questioned the wisdom of arming AQ in Syria. As I recall they took down the WTCs.

https://youtu.be/VG-mzAIUqkQ
The Dialogue Works guy has good guests on and is low key. I think he is from middle east but lives maybe in Brazil?

https://youtu.be/VG-mzAIUqkQ
Ray McGovern: Biden vs. Trump: The TRUTH No One Dares to Say!

Well, the pissed off Fake Nation terrorist you describe is an idiot...dipsh*t needs to be pissed at his people being so retarded as to accept leadership by Hamas and worshipping at the altar of Iblis inspired terrorism and death...

PS-Your links are the same not different.

[Libertas]

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraine-faces-population-replacement-third-world-migrants-after-war

Well, that's gonna suck for everybody...

And for this...as suspected...controlling Z is going to be a harder task than negotiating with the Russians...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/kremlin-confirms-putin-trump-summit-way-zelensky-warns-against-cutting-ukrainians-out

...little bastard better realize he needs to follow our lead, or we'll just be a complete non-participant and let the little sh*t dangle on his own...

He is NOT going to get his way on all things...and as we see in the first link, the nation the survivors are going to inherit is going to be a basket case...he'd be fortunate to have the Euro's be their security blanket because he's not getting US or NATO protection...it's Euro's or nothing...

[patentlymn]

Others have said that the US cannot negotiate with the EU and Ukr and hammer out a  position and THEN negotiate with Russia as our position would be locked in

Also it seems that the US govt is acting diplomatically for the first time in a long time and it works.

[patentlymn]

This guy is pro Russian (I think) and snarky. He is longer than normal but talks fast. He sums up the recent changes.
In short the US ignores the EU and tells them to pay more.

https://youtu.be/7GKap1PIkkI
Plot Twist: TRUMP Wants RUSSIA On His Side And Discards The EU

Also Steve Witkoff is said to be  good negotiator. Some recent US statement appears to be very different from previous.

[patentlymn]

Trump said they called Zelensky to "inform him" of the contents of the call with Putin.

This is a very late negotiation. The early terms years ago basically were
1. Kiev  treats the Donbass at least s well as Rome. Ottomans, and Mongols treated their vassals
2. Kiev does not join a military alliance.

Kiev refused because they are crazy.

[Libertas]

Trump said they called Zelensky to "inform him" of the contents of the call with Putin.

This is a very late negotiation. The early terms years ago basically were
1. Kiev  treats the Donbass at least s well as Rome. Ottomans, and Mongols treated their vassals
2. Kiev does not join a military alliance.

Kiev refused because they are crazy.

So Kyiv could demand tribute from Donbas?  They are crazy to pass that up!

I think they got to take some brides and local princes as hostage/servants for a time too...   

[patentlymn]

Trump said they called Zelensky to "inform him" of the contents of the call with Putin.

This is a very late negotiation. The early terms years ago basically were
1. Kiev  treats the Donbass at least s well as Rome. Ottomans, and Mongols treated their vassals
2. Kiev does not join a military alliance.

Kiev refused because they are crazy.

So Kyiv could demand tribute from Donbas?  They are crazy to pass that up!

I think they got to take some brides and local princes as hostage/servants for a time too...   

Yes. Like DC extracts tribute from the rest of US. I read that most of GDP in Ukr came from Donbass. kiev would rather kill them or drive off the people and workers.

Alex of Duran said Kellogg's job was to distract EU and Kiev while the real talks were going on. Rubio said his "delegation" would talk to Zelensky in Munich.

[patentlymn]

The US did not say that EU could not help Kiev but that US would not. EU is broke.

https://x.com/kajakallas/status/1890050522331128136
We shouldn't take anything off the table before the negotiations have even started.

It is clear that any deal behind our backs will not work.
You need the Europeans, you need the Ukrainians.

Extract from my doorstep ahead of @nato
 Defence Ministers meeting ?

https://x.com/kajakallas/status/1889800055303049695
Ukraine's independence and territorial integrity are unconditional.

Our priority must now be strengthening Ukraine and providing robust security guarantees.

In any negotiation, Europe must have a central role.

Our Weimar+ statement ?



https://youtu.be/VWbsM7JmX4I?t=1488

[Libertas]

Trump said they called Zelensky to "inform him" of the contents of the call with Putin.

This is a very late negotiation. The early terms years ago basically were
1. Kiev  treats the Donbass at least s well as Rome. Ottomans, and Mongols treated their vassals
2. Kiev does not join a military alliance.

Kiev refused because they are crazy.

So Kyiv could demand tribute from Donbas?  They are crazy to pass that up!

I think they got to take some brides and local princes as hostage/servants for a time too...   

Yes. Like DC extracts tribute from the rest of US. I read that most of GDP in Ukr came from Donbass. kiev would rather kill them or drive off the people and workers.

Alex of Duran said Kellogg's job was to distract EU and Kiev while the real talks were going on. Rubio said his "delegation" would talk to Zelensky in Munich.

I believe I've mentioned this is about resources more than once..  So, it was option #2 I outlined as expected... 

[Libertas]

The US did not say that EU could not help Kiev but that US would not. EU is broke.

https://x.com/kajakallas/status/1890050522331128136
We shouldn't take anything off the table before the negotiations have even started.

It is clear that any deal behind our backs will not work.
You need the Europeans, you need the Ukrainians.

Extract from my doorstep ahead of @nato
 Defence Ministers meeting ?

https://x.com/kajakallas/status/1889800055303049695
Ukraine's independence and territorial integrity are unconditional.

Our priority must now be strengthening Ukraine and providing robust security guarantees.

In any negotiation, Europe must have a central role.

Our Weimar+ statement ?



https://youtu.be/VWbsM7JmX4I?t=1488

Right, wrong or indifferent for the Euro or Uke view, I don't care...they have no choice but to follow Trump's decision...I mean what are the Euro's going to do?  Piss & moan or exit NATO?  What will Z do?  Get cut loose and beg to Vlad? 

 

As for this...while I do not discount the highly likely possibility Z is compromised nine ways to Sunday...

Retired Russian Armed Forces Intelligence Colonel Anatoly Matviychuk has come out swinging in the lead-up to the Munich Security Conference, saying the U.S. has compromising information on Zelensky that will force him to compromise, namely, that he has possibly embezzled large amounts of money from the funds sent to Ukraine for its defense against Russia.

In an interview with MK, the retired colonel said that President Trump “has long had a grudge against Zelensky,” since the head of the Kyiv regime supported his persecution and passed on compromising information about him to the previous U.S. administration under Biden.

“Today, Trump is skillfully dealing with everyone who once spoke out against him,” Matviychuk noted.

“Among them are Zelensky and Yermak. I am sure that Trump has more than enough dirt on them.”

These may have to do with the embezzlement of money.

“It is not surprising that it has now become clear that about 100 billion dollars have sunk into oblivion,” the intelligence officer noted.

“I believe that in fact the U.S. knows very well where these billions ended up…”

Matviychuk claims the money ended up in Zelensky’s Spanish, Italian and British real estate. However, he also went after Zelensky’s wife.

“In addition, the million-dollar expenses of the First Lady of Ukraine, Elena Zelenskaya, in European boutiques have been well calculated,” the expert added.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/retired-russian-colonel-claims-trump-has-dirt-zelensky-will-force-him-compromise

...I am at a loss as to why any Russian would say this...be allowed to say this...so publicly at this time...  To me it would feed into those who say (certainly with some merit) that Russia is seeking to interfere in Ukrainian politics yet again.  IMO they would have been better off keeping their mouths shut.  I have to believe Putin is not happy with this mouthy retired Colonel.

Anyway...  Moving on...

I find this more relevant...

(Via AP) – […] In his first comments to journalists since Trump held individual calls first with Putin and then Zelenskyy, the Ukrainian leader conceded that it was “not very pleasant” that the American president spoke first to Putin. But he said the main issue was to “not allow everything to go according to Putin’s plan.”

“We cannot accept it, as an independent country, any agreements (made) without us,” Zelenskyy said as he visited a nuclear power plant in western Ukraine.

While Trump was noncommittal on Wednesday, he offered some reassurances on Thursday when asked by reporters whether Ukrainians would have a seat at the table in U.S. negotiations with Russia. “Of course they would,” Trump said. “I mean, they’re part of it. We would have Ukraine, we have Russia, and we’ll have other people involved too.”

During the conversation with Trump on Wednesday, Zelenskyy said, the U.S. president told him he wanted to speak to both the Russian and Ukrainian leaders at the same time.

“He never mentioned in a conversation that Putin and Russia was a priority. We, today, trust these words. For us it is very important to preserve the support of the United States of America,” Zelenskyy said. (read more)

NATO, the U.K and the European Commission are not happy that President Trump and Russian President Putin may end up framing the terms of a peace deal that ends the war in Ukraine. The EU, the U.K, Blackrock and JP Morgan are expecting financial gains; President Trump dismissing their claims and efforts while simultaneously demanding surety for any further U.S. funding has left the EU very angry.


[…] “Ukraine, Europe and the United States should work on this together. TOGETHER,” Poland’s Prime Minister Donald Tusk wrote Wednesday on social media. EU foreign affairs chief Kaja Kallas said: “It is clear that any deal behind our backs will not work. You need the Europeans. You need the Ukrainians.”

Others balked at Trump’s overtures and poured cold water on his upbeat outlook.

“Just as Putin has no intention of stopping hostilities even during potential talks, we must maintain Western unity and increase support … to Ukraine, and political and economic pressure on Russia,” Estonian Foreign Minister Margus Tsahkna said. “Our actions must show that we are not changing course.”  (read more)

The non-pretending reality is that the United States was in a proxy war against Russia, with the EU and NATO toeing the line as participants, essentially a western alliance with the Biden administration controlling everything.  The U.S. State Department, USAID and the CIA were organizing all of the efforts inside Ukraine.  Zelenskyy was following the orders and instructions of others.

Suddenly, President Trump begins extracting the U.S from the proxy war.  Without the U.S. remaining involved, Ukraine has nothing.  The EU and NATO group understand this, and yet they must pretend a proxy war -with their participation- was not the reality.

In a related action, President Trump signed an Executive Order [SEE HERE] outlining that anyone from the State Department or CIA who attempts to retain their involvement in Ukraine and subsequently defies the expressed change in approach by President Trump, will be removed from their position.

XO – […] “All officers or employees charged with implementing the foreign policy of the United States must under Article II do so under the direction and authority of the President. Failure to faithfully implement the President’s policy is grounds for professional discipline, including separation.  The personnel procedures of executive departments and agencies (agencies) charged with implementing the President’s foreign policy must therefore provide an effective and efficient means for ensuring that officers and employees faithfully implement the President’s policies.”  [excerpt, sec 2 – link]

President Trump cannot address the proxy war, until he first removes the people who were conducting it.  Hence, the executive order.

President Trump signed this executive order yesterday, the same day he had the telephone call with President Putin.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2025/02/13/after-eu-apoplexy-zelenskyy-now-changes-tone-and-says-ukraine-must-be-involved-in-peace-plan/

The US & Euro war-mongers and profiteers in the DeepState and Globalist cabals are getting kicked aside...and as outlined previously Trump envisions security arrangements for Ukraine that fall primarily on the Euro's from the West's perspective with the immensely significant caveat that we will NOT be extending Article 5 protection! 

Naturally I love it...  Hope it comes to pass!   

[patentlymn]

Kiev trashes bout when they realize they are losing. people have wondered how they will do this now. These people are crazy.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-chernobyl-zelenskyy-71d781dbd66754d0a548edd388f3447a
A drone pierced the outer shell of Ukraine’s Chernobyl nuclear plant. Radiation levels are normal

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/14/world/europe/chernobyl-drone-ukraine-russia-nuclear.html
Russian Drone Damages Radiation Shield at Chernobyl, Ukraine Says
President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine called the damage “significant” but said there were no signs of radiation leaks. A Kremlin spokesman denied that Russia had carried out the strike.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/14/europe/russia-ukraine-drones-chernobyl-intl-hnk/index.html
Ukraine says Russia drone attack hits Chernobyl nuclear plant, radiation levels normal