It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => Economy => Topic started by: radioman on August 02, 2011, 09:43:15 AM
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It's clear that there is not a whole lot we can do to turn this country around,
so the best thing we can do now is move into a 'protect our assets' mode of operation.
I would hope that there are a lot of smart people on this site that maybe we can build a list of the different types of asset investments ranked by government vulneralbility.
IOW,
I want to find places to start putting my assets that have the most protection FROM our government instead of just ROI. Maybe we can form a think tank to look at all the different investment vehicles and rank them starting with the best protection to the worst protection.
It won't be long before the government starts looking to grab our assets to continue their crazy addiction to spending other people's money. In that case, I want my assets to be hidden and protected as well as possible.
I've always considered land/property to be good, but the government will eventually raise the taxes on property to the point that they will be able to confiscate your property, not to mention imminent domain capture.
So, guys and gals, you better start getting your assets in order now because it won't be long. Just saying....
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You've just identified the one issue that's driving me crazy with worry and indecision.
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me too! That's why I would like the smartest of us to start ranking and listing all the investment possibilities in order to protect us from the government. I think that we need to worry more about what the government will do to our assets rather than looking at interest rate returns etc....
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I would say that vehicles like 401k are likely to be targeted first. For the public good, of course. Other socialist coups have done so, and some of our own bastard Democrats have spoken it aloud, which is always the first step to manifesting their goals. They test the water with a statement, and wait.
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I would say that vehicles like 401k are likely to be targeted first. For the public good, of course. Other socialist coups have done so, and some of our own bastard Democrats have spoken it aloud, which is always the first step to manifesting their goals. They test the water with a statement, and wait.
This is the kind of information we need to compile into a complete list and ranked.
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Pension funds like 401(k) & 403(b)'s are vulnerable, I've suspended my contributions until I can get a better read on where we're headed.
Other assets will be targeted by stressed budgets, I could see escheatment laws streamlined to make it easier for states to grab dormant accounts, perhaps even defining "dormant" to a ridiculously short period of inactivity. This would place just about every traditional investment and banking account in jeopardy.
Property is good but we've all seen eminent domain abused and broadened and proglodytes love to keep telling you what you can & cannot do in your own home/property...I have to problem pulling a trigger to protect me and mine! Still, the larger the property the harder it will be for them to raid incrementally.
Vehicles continue to look ripe for attack via eco-nazi regs and psychotic cafe standards. Maybe owning some horses makes sense!
Valuables (government issued gold) has been confiscated before, could be again),..I recommend bullion and staying away from the federal crap!
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Historically, if the new government survives, preservation will only be achieved by finding a way to be a complement to the new system or expatriation.
Time is running out for an instantaneous polarity shift therefore wealth and independence will continue to be eroded as we are witnessing regardless which party is in control. They will go for the softest targets first as IDP suggested and what they cannot appropriate they will partner with. Property owners will not have the independence they do today but may become the administrators of said property along the lines of "rent controlled" property is in NY.
On the other hand, if you can afford it, there is always Switzerland.
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I can't afford Switzerland.
I can afford lead.
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I can't afford Switzerland.
I can afford lead.
Even if I could, bullsht to that; I'm not leaving the place to them.
Bullion. *sigh*
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Again, we need to start brain storming to figure out what assets are the safest looking into the future.
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Real property is what Libertas is suggesting. Not just land, but horses/livestock and .... bullion.
Radioman, is what you're looking for a stock/bond/mutual fund type solution?
I just had to turn Rush off; he's jip-ing Duh Wun. Can't stand to listen.
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So, you don't like the Swiss? ::speechless:: hmmmm
Not just land, but horses/livestock and .... bullion.
Livestock is an asset only to those who are accomplished in animal husbandry, trust me.
If you are still interested, JF's WTSHTF suggestions are a good start.
Annual 1980 dollar cost of horse upkeep, for the knowledgeable, 1K feed and hay, 1K+ vet. This does not include proper shelter, paddock, fence, and water. There are reasons horses have always been the transportation of the upper class. Of course, a good horse and tack will always identify you as superior.
Radioman, is what you're looking for a stock/bond/mutual fund type solution?
My inclination is to spread the wealth, if one or two miss then, hopefully, the third will continue to provide growth.
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My inclination is to spread the wealth, if one or two miss then, hopefully, the third will continue to provide growth.
Unh hunh. You did notice radioman was asking for specifics, right?
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I'm interested in the investment that provides me with the BEST protection from the government.
We should be able to identify and rank all the investment types and vehicles per the best insulation from the government.
Whether that is mutual funds, bonds, CDs, savings accounts, real estate, metals, coins, horses, . . . . . .
They all have a risk factor regarding the government. Questions is: which one provides me with the best safety?
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My inclination is to spread the wealth, if one or two miss then, hopefully, the third will continue to provide growth.
Unh hunh. You did notice radioman was asking for specifics, right?
Speaking specifically about safe investing and government taking at any time is touchy, in today's environment predicting the weather is less difficult. Before this is over we are going to have a government with values different than today, either way it goes.
The three areas I was referring was: real property - on the downside it's rental -on the upside it will keep up with inflation (if you do, do diligence), conservative investment vehicles such as Vanguard, and real money.
What are your specifics?
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My inclination is to spread the wealth, if one or two miss then, hopefully, the third will continue to provide growth.
Unh hunh. You did notice radioman was asking for specifics, right?
Speaking specifically about safe investing and government taking at any time is touchy, in today's environment predicting the weather is less difficult. Before this is over we are going to have a government with values different than today, either way it goes.
The three areas I was referring was: real property - on the downside it's rental -on the upside it will keep up with inflation (if you do, do diligence), conservative investment vehicles such as Vanguard, and real money.
What are your specifics?
If I had any, I'd be sure to contribute. I'm firmly in the "I have no clue and I'm worried to death about it" category, as I stated previously.
The best I can offer is beans, bullets and band-aids. Oh, and now, beef.
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In all seriousness, I can easily imagine a scenario in which lead, brass, and gunpowder are more highly valued than gold.
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My inclination is to spread the wealth, if one or two miss then, hopefully, the third will continue to provide growth.
Unh hunh. You did notice radioman was asking for specifics, right?
Speaking specifically about safe investing and government taking at any time is touchy, in today's environment predicting the weather is less difficult. Before this is over we are going to have a government with values different than today, either way it goes.
The three areas I was referring was: real property - on the downside it's rental -on the upside it will keep up with inflation (if you do, do diligence), conservative investment vehicles such as Vanguard, and real money.
What are your specifics?
Well,
what we do know is that the government is going to start raiding the assets from those that have assets because the government is broke.
Each type of investment has its pros and cons as to how vulnerable they are to government confiscation or undue regulation.
Real Estate - Rental property is good during times of inflation but the government may force too high a property tax burden, may impose regulations on landlords that might make it impossible to see any income of any value. Who knows? Imminent domain may seize your property so that the guv can collect higher taxes.
Mutual funds/401s/iras/ - tax burden going in and out - government may start a program where they manage your funds for you whether you want them to or not....
Banks/CDs - bank closures, bankruptcies, I don't know what all can go wrong here...someone mentioned inactive account seizures...
Gold and silver - the guv will want to track who has what ....
Guv may take all your assets when you die.....charge excessively high taxes to those that inherit....
What about LLCs, and other forms of accounts to protect assets? Trust funds, etc...??
I guess I'm hoping that some experts can come on here and advise us where the best place to hide our assets.
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My inclination is to spread the wealth, if one or two miss then, hopefully, the third will continue to provide growth.
Unh hunh. You did notice radioman was asking for specifics, right?
Speaking specifically about safe investing and government taking at any time is touchy, in today's environment predicting the weather is less difficult. Before this is over we are going to have a government with values different than today, either way it goes.
The three areas I was referring was: real property - on the downside it's rental -on the upside it will keep up with inflation (if you do, do diligence), conservative investment vehicles such as Vanguard, and real money.
What are your specifics?
Well,
what we do know is that the government is going to start raiding the assets from those that have assets because the government is broke.
Each type of investment has its pros and cons as to how vulnerable they are to government confiscation or undue regulation.
Real Estate - Rental property is good during times of inflation but the government may force too high a property tax burden, may impose regulations on landlords that might make it impossible to see any income of any value. Who knows? Imminent domain may seize your property so that the guv can collect higher taxes.
Mutual funds/401s/iras/ - tax burden going in and out - government may start a program where they manage your funds for you whether you want them to or not....
Banks/CDs - bank closures, bankruptcies, I don't know what all can go wrong here...someone mentioned inactive account seizures...
Gold and silver - the guv will want to track who has what ....
Guv may take all your assets when you die.....charge excessively high taxes to those that inherit....
What about LLCs, and other forms of accounts to protect assets? Trust funds, etc...??
I guess I'm hoping that some experts can come on here and advise us where the best place to hide our assets.
One of my "hobbies" today is exploring the opportunity to buy other currency. As the dollar slips, other currency becomes attractive. Now, I am a babe in this, checking currency, but it could be a safehaven of sorts.
I also keep some cash in hand and silver. I'll hoard anything silver. The coin may become worthless, but the metal will not.
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One of my "hobbies" today is exploring the opportunity to buy other currency. As the dollar slips, other currency becomes attractive. Now, I am a babe in this, checking currency, but it could be a safehaven of sorts.
One of the guys who works offshore here has about $300 in Iraqi Dinars. He hasn't gotten much on his return yet, but he's still optimistic.
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One of my "hobbies" today is exploring the opportunity to buy other currency. As the dollar slips, other currency becomes attractive. Now, I am a babe in this, checking currency, but it could be a safehaven of sorts.
One of the guys who works offshore here has about $300 in Iraqi Dinars. He hasn't gotten much on his return yet, but he's still optimistic.
::hysterical::
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My inclination is to spread the wealth, if one or two miss then, hopefully, the third will continue to provide growth.
Unh hunh. You did notice radioman was asking for specifics, right?
Speaking specifically about safe investing and government taking at any time is touchy, in today's environment predicting the weather is less difficult. Before this is over we are going to have a government with values different than today, either way it goes.
The three areas I was referring was: real property - on the downside it's rental -on the upside it will keep up with inflation (if you do, do diligence), conservative investment vehicles such as Vanguard, and real money.
What are your specifics?
Well,
what we do know is that the government is going to start raiding the assets from those that have assets because the government is broke.
Each type of investment has its pros and cons as to how vulnerable they are to government confiscation or undue regulation.
Real Estate - Rental property is good during times of inflation but the government may force too high a property tax burden, may impose regulations on landlords that might make it impossible to see any income of any value. Who knows? Imminent domain may seize your property so that the guv can collect higher taxes.
Mutual funds/401s/iras/ - tax burden going in and out - government may start a program where they manage your funds for you whether you want them to or not....
Banks/CDs - bank closures, bankruptcies, I don't know what all can go wrong here...someone mentioned inactive account seizures...
Gold and silver - the guv will want to track who has what ....
Guv may take all your assets when you die.....charge excessively high taxes to those that inherit....
What about LLCs, and other forms of accounts to protect assets? Trust funds, etc...??
I guess I'm hoping that some experts can come on here and advise us where the best place to hide our assets.
One of my "hobbies" today is exploring the opportunity to buy other currency. As the dollar slips, other currency becomes attractive. Now, I am a babe in this, checking currency, but it could be a safehaven of sorts.
I also keep some cash in hand and silver. I'll hoard anything silver. The coin may become worthless, but the metal will not.
Chickens and eggs will become trade goods.
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Thought you were going to say rabbits.
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Thought you were going to say rabbits.
Please. Don't get him started on the rabbits .......
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Livestock, you know.
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Livestock, you know.
Yah, I know. Unlike *some*, he knows the drill so likely no long learning curve. As though the majority of us wouldn't get there in time either.
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::bigmooning::
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::bigmooning::
We prolly seen more of your *alleged* butt this week than Nan did.
And the above comment about learning curve was a compliment, face brut. ::kissface::
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::bigmooning::
We prolly seen more of your *alleged* butt this week than Nan did.
And the above comment about learning curve was a compliment, face brut. ::kissface::
::grouphug::
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One of my "hobbies" today is exploring the opportunity to buy other currency. As the dollar slips, other currency becomes attractive. Now, I am a babe in this, checking currency, but it could be a safehaven of sorts.
One of the guys who works offshore here has about $300 in Iraqi Dinars. He hasn't gotten much on his return yet, but he's still optimistic.
Ive heard of people buying the new Iraqi currency. Some call it a scam but I'm not sure. Iraqs debt has been forgiven by most countries and they are sitting on black gold. 300.00 probably got him 250,000 dinar...LOL
Never know...Their currency gets accepted, other countries dinar is worth much more than the dollar. can't be any worse than guying 300.00 worth of lottery tickets.
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To answer Radioman's question, well we've already described some of the risks of various assets, all I can say is be prepared to move fast to protect what you have. I would think land, especially rural land, would be the last thing anybody attempts to confiscate. Liquidate riskier holdings before they tank or are prone to confiscation, hide what you have. Eventually everything should be with you and not somewhere else. Then it comes down to protecting what you have. Obviously these steps involve a ton of details. I'm not sure how detailed it has to be being as everyones situation might be different, but the bottom line is keep what you have by any means necessary. If IRA's or 401(k)'s look like they could be raided, pull the plug. The latter can be folded into the former and then it can be pulled out early, you'll take a tax hit but better risking that than risking all. This is the type of thinking people have to used to. Bank ratings are worthless too. You have to look for warning signs in your community-other banks failing, experiencing runs, drawing heavily on Fed reserves, reducing staff, etc. People have to question everything they are in and everything they see. Geez, I guess I am describing a process much like going Galt. Not a bad model to copy though!
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There will be no safe paper asset. A Paper asset relies on Law to be protected, and the people making the laws will be able to take anything they want on paper.
Hence you 401K is easy pickings-- a big pile of money, held in the hands of a 3rd party, who is easily bullied by if not in cahoots with, those making the demands.
You need things to have and to hold. If you are prepping that is food, energy production, shelter, security/firearms, toiletries, transportation, bullion and yes a pile of fiat cash. . If you have money left over, then bullion is still your best bet. Also, don't consider this an opportunity to "get rich". Being rich in the future will be living as you do now. Your goal at this point should probably be preservation.
I do not believe, gold, silver, copper, platinum, etc are in a "bubble" - they are accurately reflecting the state of the world fiat currency market. Yes, you CAN invest in the currency of other countries. China is even allowing you to keep accounts in Chinese currency if you use their branches in America.. problem is those banks are under American control ( Argentina took deposit is in American Dollars and forced the depositors to accept the local revalued currency in exchange) - but right now other currencies are just as unstable- added to the fact that trade is now so interconnected that even "secure" fiat will be shaky. If the dollar tanks, the U.S demand on the Market disappears, and that takes a lot of revenue off of the tables of foreign companies as well. Money is a symbol of value - and the less value people trade, the less the money is worth. It really is that simple. So some holdings in various foreign currencies is probably a good idea. And its probably a good idea to have those holding in cash, and in your possession . (and no a Bank deposit box is NOT in your possession)
In the end Gold, Silver and other metals will be worth "something" and be seen as a reliable symbol of value (i.e. money) - however the government might make them illegal to own - forcing you to a black market to use them. What is important to remember is that gold and Silver are just shiny rocks. Silver has industrial uses - which make up 90% of the demand. Silver WILL loose value as production slows. Gold has really no uses, and is the more reliable barometer. Both silver an gol, however, have been used as money in the past. If and when they are again recognized as "money" their value will increase on that basis. There will probably be a panic/bubble (I don't think we see it yet) where prices will go stupid.but that will be because other mediums of exchange ( fiat) have gone stupid in the other direction. This will be a good time to cash out some holding and pay down any debts you might have. After the panic buying stops, gold and silver will find a new level, and will probably buy slightly more than they cost in 1990's dollars. (around $3-5 1990 dollar purchasing value for an oz silver, about $200-300 oz gold) Of course what is available for purchase and at what price may change dramatically because how much is produced and how much is demanded will be dramatically different from 1990, and its hard to see if demand will fall the same amount as production . Housing will probably be very cheap. Fuel and Food very expensive.
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I can't argue with much of that!
The real shape the future will take can vary from bad to unthinkable, depending upon the variables and your own intelligence, knowledge, experience and point of view. That it will be less than what we have now seems a given. It is not pleasant thinking about the darker impulses of humanity, but it is unavoidable when assessing risks to your person and property. Getting your mind to accept worst case scenarios is half the battle in preparing for an uncertain future.
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Getting your mind to accept worst case scenarios is half the battle in preparing for an uncertain future.
My mind is having no trouble what so ever. It's my significant other that's the battle.
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Also, don't consider this an opportunity to "get rich". Being rich in the future will be living as you do now.
That cannot be emphasized enough, and it was more or less what Ticker Forum commenter Josecitomadera was saying here. (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,2342.0.html)
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Getting your mind to accept worst case scenarios is half the battle in preparing for an uncertain future.
My mind is having no trouble what so ever. It's my significant other that's the battle.
Yup. You can't just hammer away with arguments no matter how well reasoned and passionate...convincing those close to us can be tough, don't want to trigger the force field...you have to be patient. I suck at patience, hope you fare better!
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Getting your mind to accept worst case scenarios is half the battle in preparing for an uncertain future.
My mind is having no trouble what so ever. It's my significant other that's the battle.
I am so lucky I didn't have that battle. Have you tried "Its a Vacation Home!", "I want to go Green hon, lets get a Solar System and lessen our Carbon Footprint", "we should have extra food on hand, that way when its about to expire we can give it to the poor", "I think we need a greenhouse so we can eat healthy food and not that poisoned stuff they sell in those corporate supermarkets!" "hey wouldn't it be great to buy a new truck and use it to go ATVing?" - a lot of prep can be explained away as you doing well and wanting to do whats best for others and the planet. Michelle and I are Neo-Hippies.
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Getting your mind to accept worst case scenarios is half the battle in preparing for an uncertain future.
My mind is having no trouble what so ever. It's my significant other that's the battle.
I am so lucky I didn't have that battle. Have you tried "Its a Vacation Home!", "I want to go Green hon, lets get a Solar System and lessen our Carbon Footprint", "we should have extra food on hand, that way when its about to expire we can give it to the poor", "I think we need a greenhouse so we can eat healthy food and not that poisoned stuff they sell in those corporate supermarkets!" "hey wouldn't it be great to buy a new truck and use it to go ATVing?" - a lot of prep can be explained away as you doing well and wanting to do whats best for others and the planet. Michelle and I are Neo-Hippies.
Something,(a new hobby) like camping, the family can enjoy and be a learning experience for the children. Fundamental prep may also quietly occur in the attic, garage, or crawl space.