It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => Economy => Topic started by: IronDioPriest on August 05, 2011, 07:56:24 PM
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HT: HotAir...
Breaking: S&P downgrades U.S. to AA+; Update: S&P statement added (http://hotair.com/archives/2011/08/05/breaking-sp-downgrades-u-s-to-aa/)
We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and will remain a contentious and fitful process. We also believe that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration agreed to this week falls short of the amount that we believe is necessary to stabilize the general government debt burden by the middle of the decade…
The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy. Despite this year’s wide-ranging debate, in our view, the differences between political parties have proven to be extraordinarily difficult to bridge, and, as we see it, the resulting agreement fell well short of the comprehensive fiscal consolidation program that some proponents had envisaged until quite recently. Republicans and Democrats have only been able to agree to relatively modest savings on discretionary spending while delegating to the Select Committee decisions on more comprehensive measures. It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options. In addition, the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability…
When comparing the U.S. to sovereigns with ‘AAA’ long-term ratings that we view as relevant peers–Canada, France, Germany, and the U.K.–we also observe, based on our base case scenarios for each, that the trajectory of the U.S.’s net public debt is diverging from the others. Including the U.S., we estimate that these five sovereigns will have net general government debt to GDP ratios this year ranging from 34% (Canada) to 80% (the U.K.), with the U.S. debt burden at 74%. By 2015, we project that their net public debt to GDP ratios will range between 30% (lowest, Canada) and 83% (highest, France), with the U.S. debt burden at 79%. However, in contrast with the U.S., we project that the net public debt burdens of these other sovereigns will begin to decline, either before or by 2015.
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I'm stunned. ::falldownshocked::
OK, not really.
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I never could understand why the country had such a great bond rating to begin with considering that political hacks and their accounting tricks until I realized that these agencies were in fact created by the government for the government to rate treasury notes.
Personlaaly and I think many here will agree, we've already crossed the terminator into banana republic. Just as with the U-3 employment and the inflation numbers being nothing but empty shells the public falls for the misinformation not realizing just how badly the governmet has skewed what was supposed to be economic indicators. ::bashing::
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The political narrative has not been writ.
Will the Pubbies walk out on those granite steps and seize it?
NO!
I can see them reaching for their ankles right now.
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To borrow a post from another thread...
Double triple ugh.
Winning the future.
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video linked @ gatewaypundit....
Former Obama Economic Adviser Gets Chuckle Out of S&P Downgrade: “We’re F**ked” (Video) (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/08/former-obama-economic-advisor-on-sp-downgrade-were-fked/)
Former Obama economic adviser Christina Romer got a chuckle out of the news yesterday that the US credit rating was downgraded for the first time in over a century. She told Bill Maher, “We’re f*cked.” Then they laughed.
[blockquote]BILL MAHER, HOST: So, excuse my language, but we used to do a segment on this show called “How F—ked Are We?”
MAHER: …This, just before we went on the air they said our rating got downgraded.
CHRISTINA ROMER, FORMER CHAIR OF THE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: So, pretty darned f—ked.
[Laughter and applause]
MAHER: Ooh.
ROMER: I’ve been hanging around Tim Geithner too long.[/blockquote]
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Last night I was watching a goofy horror movie called "House II". It was something that I had recalled from years and years ago so I downloaded it and viewed it. What I did not recall was that bill maher had a role in it. He played a slimy record producer bent on seducing the wife of the main character.
He was entirely forgettable in his role and apparently decided that life imitating "art" was good enough for him.
I imagine that he has enough money that he will escape the pain for a few months.
I wish I could be there when his infrastructure fails around him.
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If only the tea partiers would have allowed the repubs to agree to the grand bargain, we wud not be in this mess. ::evil::
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If only the tea partiers would have allowed the repubs to agree to the grand bargain, we wud not be in this mess. ::evil::
Exactly what I've been hearing/reading in certain circles: those hostage-taking, extreeeeemist TEA Party people have ... have ... executed a coup (yeah! that's the ticket!) on our economy and government.
You cannot explain to stoopit; you can only marginalize it.
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Seems every talking head on the tube is quoting S&P as saying "they should have made a deal" the talking heads lie. S&P is saying you need to balance the budget and not only are you not doing that you are exacerbating the problem and their is no appearance of resolution.
So, the herd continues it's stampede to the cliff.
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"It's the TEA Party's fault!" according to this post, written elsewhere.
There is blame for both sides in accumulating the debt but it was the Tea Party that caused the brinkmanship on raising the ceiling. Because the Republicans wouldn't include revenues in the solution we couldn't get to the $4 billion cut in the deficit that would have prevented the downgrade. Obama offered a bipartisan plan to do that and Boehner turned it down. It included cuts in social security and medicare, not just stopping tax loopholes and subsidies. If you don't believe me, see what the person who was behind the downgrade at AS&P said.
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/05/video-man-behind-downgrade-decision/ (http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/05/video-man-behind-downgrade-decision/)
COOPER: What could the United States have done to have avoided this?
CHAMBERS: Well, I think it could have done a few things. The first thing it could have done is to have raised the debt ceiling in a timely matter, so that much of this debate had been avoided to begin with, as it had done 60 or 70 times since 1960 without much debate. So that's point number one. And point number two is it could have come up with a fiscal plan similar, for example, to the Bowles-Simpson commission, which was bipartisan. Although it did not have a supermajority vote, it did have a majority vote and came up with a number of sensible recommendations. ??You could envision other recommendations, but that would have been a start.
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I think that there's plenty of blame to go around. ??This is a problem that's been a long time in the making, well over this administration and the prior administration. It's a matter of the medium- and long-term budget position of the United States that needs to be brought under control, not the immediate fiscal position. It's one that centers on entitlements and it's entitlement reform or having matching revenues to pay for those entitlements that's at the crux of the matter.
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/05/video-man-behind-downgrade-decision/ (http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/05/video-man-behind-downgrade-decision/)
Here's what I find interestingly flabbergasting: the TEA Party and fiscal conservatives have been saying for some time government needs to be made smaller - the whole point behind the TEA Party is Taxed Enough Already -- and that SS/Medicare/Medicaid needs to go away in a manner that doesn't kill seniors.
For decades, Democrats have been scaring seniors with the idea that "Republicans want to take away your Social Security", but as they said it from one side of their mouths, the other side was passing legislation to tax "benefits" and otherwise whittle them away.
It seems like just yesterday, the Left was screaming about Paul Ryan's "Roadmap" pushing grandma off the cliff, when those 55 and older would not have been adversely affected AT ALL.
Now, NOW, where's the first place they want cuts? SS and Medicare - notice nothing about Medicaid, that would also cut into their base; nothing about alllll the other alphabet agencies (I'd dearly love to personally hand out pink slips to every single person working at the EPA); nothing about foreign aid; nothing about grants and other give-aways.
And I'll bet you dollars to donuts come election time, they will AGAIN paint the Republicans and the TEA Party as complicit in gutting SS/Medicare.
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The pass a trillion dollar slush-fund stimulus that did nothing, and then ObamaCare, adding trillions to the deficit. then we hit the debt ceiling and expect that even though those programs were passed with no new tax revenue to underpin them, that the emergency of the debt-ceiling and default should compel government to raise taxes to cover it.
And then they want to blame the f**king Tea Party?
f**k them. Come and get some, bastards.
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"It's the TEA Party's fault!" according to this post, written elsewhere.
There is blame for both sides in accumulating the debt but it was the Tea Party that caused the brinkmanship on raising the ceiling. Because the Republicans wouldn't include revenues in the solution we couldn't get to the $4 billion cut in the deficit that would have prevented the downgrade. Obama offered a bipartisan plan to do that and Boehner turned it down. It included cuts in social security and medicare, not just stopping tax loopholes and subsidies. If you don't believe me, see what the person who was behind the downgrade at AS&P said.
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/05/video-man-behind-downgrade-decision/ (http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/05/video-man-behind-downgrade-decision/)
COOPER: What could the United States have done to have avoided this?
CHAMBERS: Well, I think it could have done a few things. The first thing it could have done is to have raised the debt ceiling in a timely matter, so that much of this debate had been avoided to begin with, as it had done 60 or 70 times since 1960 without much debate. So that's point number one. And point number two is it could have come up with a fiscal plan similar, for example, to the Bowles-Simpson commission, which was bipartisan. Although it did not have a supermajority vote, it did have a majority vote and came up with a number of sensible recommendations. ??You could envision other recommendations, but that would have been a start.
...
I think that there's plenty of blame to go around. ??This is a problem that's been a long time in the making, well over this administration and the prior administration. It's a matter of the medium- and long-term budget position of the United States that needs to be brought under control, not the immediate fiscal position. It's one that centers on entitlements and it's entitlement reform or having matching revenues to pay for those entitlements that's at the crux of the matter.
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/05/video-man-behind-downgrade-decision/ (http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/05/video-man-behind-downgrade-decision/)
Here's what I find interestingly flabbergasting: the TEA Party and fiscal conservatives have been saying for some time government needs to be made smaller - the whole point behind the TEA Party is Taxed Enough Already -- and that SS/Medicare/Medicaid needs to go away in a manner that doesn't kill seniors.
For decades, Democrats have been scaring seniors with the idea that "Republicans want to take away your Social Security", but as they said it from one side of their mouths, the other side was passing legislation to tax "benefits" and otherwise whittle them away.
It seems like just yesterday, the Left was screaming about Paul Ryan's "Roadmap" pushing grandma off the cliff, when those 55 and older would not have been adversely affected AT ALL.
Now, NOW, where's the first place they want cuts? SS and Medicare - notice nothing about Medicaid, that would also cut into their base; nothing about alllll the other alphabet agencies (I'd dearly love to personally hand out pink slips to every single person working at the EPA); nothing about foreign aid; nothing about grants and other give-aways.
And I'll bet you dollars to donuts come election time, they will AGAIN paint the Republicans and the TEA Party as complicit in gutting SS/Medicare.
Spot On.
It will be time to fight disinformation with information. AARP is going to fight to remain fully funded.
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Seems every talking head on the tube is quoting S&P as saying "they should have made a deal" the talking heads lie. S&P is saying you need to balance the budget and not only are you not doing that you are exacerbating the problem and their is no appearance of resolution.
So, the herd continues it's stampede to the cliff.
The really funny question being asked by every news outlet is ; "Why did S&P do this ?" Well fer Chrast's Sake ! Where the hell have these people been ? The "whys" have been staring us in the face for several fvcking years !
It was only a matter of time . Sometimes the news media's even dumber than Congress .
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“The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that.
So there is zero probability of default”
said [Alan] Greenspan on NBC’s Meet the Press
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“The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that.
So there is zero probability of default”
said [Alan] Greenspan on NBC’s Meet the Press
Oy. Another financial genius.
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The emerging tactic from the Left - blaming this on the Tea Party - is unconscionable; evil. I hate these Leftist bastards with a passion that will sooner or later be unquenchable.
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I hate when I am right. This was a foregone conclusion. Too bad all the wrong targets will be blamed and all the right ones shouted down by Keynesian fools who got us into this mess.
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Link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8687496/We-face-recession-without-shock-absorbers-as-Berlin-loses-patience-with-the-eurozone.html)
Germany still fails to understand the logic of monetary union: that (Teutonic) surplus states have a duty to boost demand in order to offset austerity in (Latin) deficit states until equilibrium is restored. Instead, Berlin is imposing a 1930s Gold Standard formula of deflation decrees through the EU machinery, with the burden of adjustment falling on debtor states. ::hysterical::
Ambrose Pritchard POS
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Yeah, that is hilarious.
The idea that government can gin up demand and the doctrine of too big to fail need to be expunged from mainstream thought or there is nowhere to go but into global fiscal/financial hell.
And now we're the King of Debtor states...
Don't forget to properly thank a proglodyte for this mess!
;)
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A "tweet" from Stu, producer of the Glenn Beck show...
@STU_GBP STU BURGUIERE
I love the left's talking point battle between "S&P is crazy! Made huge error" and "this is Tea Party downgrade!" Can't be both.
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S&P cuts Fannie and Freddie credit rating (http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/sp-cuts-fannie-and-freddie-credit-rating)
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R.S. McCain said, if you had bought gold the first day A.Weiner criticized Glenn Beck for hawking gold you would be up 42%.
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Re: Left meme on S&P, the meme is all that matters, pesky little things like truth, consistency, logic...those things are for losers!
As for F/F, they should all be rated T for Toxic (or Turd)...
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...or T/T
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O'Bama toady Warren Buffett gets downgraded, too.
LINK (http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/08/08/berkshire-other-insurers-get-negative-tag-from-sp/)
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Heh.
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And since the stock market is going down fast enough and there is still more room for further credit rating downgrades...BO is getting ready to make a statement in a few minutes.
Get your broker on the phone right now.
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And in news you won't see the MFM cover:
Ohio's credit rating gets upgraded by the S&P. (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/08/governor-kasich-explains-how-he-did-it-ohio-credit-rating-was-just-upgraded-by-sp-video/)
How do you suppose that happened?
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And in news you won't see the MFM cover:
Ohio's credit rating gets upgraded by the S&P. (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/08/governor-kasich-explains-how-he-did-it-ohio-credit-rating-was-just-upgraded-by-sp-video/)
How do you suppose that happened?
Kasich.
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And where is Bachmann in all of this?
Positioned to give primary voters a real choice. (http://biggovernment.com/jpollak/2011/08/08/bachmanns-debt-ceiling-stance-strengthens-gop-for-2012/#more-310564)
One thing you won't be able to say this go round is that all of the choices during the Republican primary suck. Last time we had a truly sucky field (don't even pretend that Thompson was ever viable the way he behaved) but this time it is going to be different. This time it's the Democrats who have the truly sucky field, a field of one.
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And it appears that more than one will make it to the front row.
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The Rick "I'm going to announce any minute now" Perry thing is getting a wee bit tiresome, though.
Thompson played that game and it turned out to be quite anti-climactic...the whole reluctant candidate thing.
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A lot of people are getting antsy. Maybe a traditional Labor Day announcement.
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Obamakov's blather was tiresome, predictable, sickening and pathetic...in short, typical.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-08-08-14-08-19 (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-08-08-14-08-19)
Not even AP, normally reliably stupid, is stupid enough to parrot Obammy's stupid line about Buffett!
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/08/08/berkshire-other-insurers-get-negative-tag-from-sp/ (http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/08/08/berkshire-other-insurers-get-negative-tag-from-sp/)
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According to Duh Wun, the downgrade is NOT because it is doubted whether we can pay our bills -- NO!! -- it's because of our "politics". Oh, and the world still considers us as having a AAA rating.
He's .... unreal.
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And since the stock market is going down fast enough and there is still more room for further credit rating downgrades...BO is getting ready to make a statement in a few minutes.
Get your broker on the phone right now.
Stymie waiting to address the press today : " Jeez , I don't want to do this ! What am I gonna say ? Holy Sh*t ! This is the same speech I gave last week ! Fer Chrissake ... Anybody got some weed ? "
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The Rick "I'm going to announce any minute now" Perry thing is getting a wee bit tiresome, though.
Thompson played that game and it turned out to be quite anti-climactic...the whole reluctant candidate thing.
Link (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60884.html)
Rick Perry intends to use a speech in South Carolina Saturday to make clear that he's running for president, POLITICO has learned.
According to two sources familiar with the plan, the Texas governor will remove any doubt about his White House intentions during his appearance at a RedState conference in Charleston.
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The S&P needs a kick in the ass as well. They graded all those subprime mortgages as AAA, I was reminded today.
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Judge Napolitano is saying the govt. had been negotiating w/ S&P and the rest and they lost the negotiations with S&P and they are pitssed. The govt is still in negotiations w/the rest.
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Judge Napolitano is saying the govt. had been negotiating w/ S&P and the rest and they lost the negotiations with S&P and they are pitssed. The govt is still in negotiations w/the rest.
These things are negotiated? What the hell does this government rightfully have with which to bargain? Nothing belongs to these people, and they have nothing they don't first steal!
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http://www.gallup.com/poll/148874/Obama-Job-Approval-Higher-States.aspx (http://www.gallup.com/poll/148874/Obama-Job-Approval-Higher-States.aspx)
Residents of 16 states and the District of Columbia gave President Obama approval ratings of 50% or higher during the first half of 2011,...
...
Obama's support is greatest in the East, with 8 of his 10 highest approval ratings occurring in states located in the Northeast or Mid-Atlantic region of the country. The 2 non-Eastern states ranking among the 10 highest are Obama's home states of Hawaii and Illinois. ...
ME 50%
MA 57%
CT 60%
PA 48%
VA 46%
TN 40%
NC 47%
SC 43%
GA 48%
FL 47%
AL 38%
MS 45%
LA 45%
TX 40%
NM 46%
CO 44%
WA 50%
MN 52%
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It is so damned disheartening to see MN on that list.
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It's not necessarily bad being on the list but ya'll could knock it down a couple or three points.
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The knockdown is coming, just wait for it...
FYI - More analysis of the batsh*t-crazy proglodytes and the S&P downgrade -
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/273907/obama-makes-history-our-aaa-credit-editors#. (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/273907/obama-makes-history-our-aaa-credit-editors#.)
Oh, and don't be surprised to see more rating agency action while Duh Wun & the DemonRats continue to do and say all the wrong things...
Ignorance is correctable, stupid is forever...
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Santelli - "We’d be BBB without the tea party!"
Or worse!!!
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/08/rick-santelli-goes-off-wed-be-bbb-without-tea-party-video/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/08/rick-santelli-goes-off-wed-be-bbb-without-tea-party-video/)
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We have a party who prey on the ignorance of Americans. Is there any doubt today this is a calculated, articulate plan to, as obama has said in the past, knock the United States down a peg or two? This is purposeful destruction of wealth.
So the Tea party is gonna take the brunt of the viciousness known as liberalism....get ready for more magazine covers degrading Tea partiers. Get ready for more hateful rhetoric.
Me, i've had it. When I hear idiots i'm taking them to task. I won't go into details, but I ran into an idiot as I was buying some dinner to go last nite. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but i refuse to tolerate stupidity.
I'm beyond angry.
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I hear and agree Don. I've been getting more vocal than usual with casual contacts lately. My tolerance of stupid has always been low, but it's getting lower!
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I hear and agree Don. I've been getting more vocal than usual with casual contacts lately. My tolerance of stupid has always been low, but it's getting lower!
Because I have a business in my hometown, I've attempted to be lowkey in regards to politics. But you know what, no more. Actually, there is so much political talk among my older patrons it has become easier. I live in a consrvative town and i cannot find anyone with any age on them who support obama. Normally, it is someone young who buys into the obama rhetoric who needs to hear the truth. It's what happened to me last nite.
We have become the stupid nation.
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Because I have a business in my hometown, I've attempted to be lowkey in regards to politics. But you know what, no more.
That is where I was 2 years ago.. I just won't put up with it in conversation anymore for the sake of "civility" - if they wanted civility they shouldn't have a loaded government pointed at my head.
However, I did remove the anti-Obama bumper stickers from the Car.. the left is becoming so unhinged I can't afford to advertise to the loons
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I hear and agree Don. I've been getting more vocal than usual with casual contacts lately. My tolerance of stupid has always been low, but it's getting lower!
Because I have a business in my hometown, I've attempted to be lowkey in regards to politics. But you know what, no more. Actually, there is so much political talk among my older patrons it has become easier. I live in a consrvative town and i cannot find anyone with any age on them who support obama. Normally, it is someone young who buys into the obama rhetoric who needs to hear the truth. It's what happened to me last nite.
We have become the stupid nation.
I think that's generally true.
Just last month at the wedding reception of my niece, a great uncle on her mothers side is a professor/diplomat who spends a lot of time in the Middle-East (mostly around Lebanon) and he never has anything nice to say about democrats and especially Obama and his merry band of miscreants. One of her aunts made mention years ago about looking out for this guy. It was then that we knew she and her hubby were democrats, one of the few who are of my generation that we know about, but even they are not touting it. So when this great uncle showed up we knew we'd hear him rail against the youth and their uneducated immature attraction to the pretender on the throne. Kinda nice to be relegated to smiling and nodding. Being the elder statesman nobody dared challenge him. He's an independent fella and I half suspect he's doing some freelance work overseas...
But by in large, most of the people I come across who actually profess admiration for that fool in the White House are younger. But there are some middle aged ex-hippies and old fart FDR types still sporting Obama, Kerry, & Wellstone bumper stickers around this town! And the Universities are still crawling with leftist faculty and students. Quite annoying to come across.
:P
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... they shouldn't have a loaded government pointed at my head.
Precisely. Past two years I have come firmly to the "politics is personal" way of thinking. I won't do business with an Oppressive if I know they are; I'm not helping them in any way. I don't get around much socially, but I definitely avoid the "ferny" places because I know who the clientele is and I don't want to truck with them.
The defacto head of campaigning for Republicans in the county told me in '06 that Amnesty would certainly be passed and wasn't disturbed by that, is a giant Mitt fan (she's a Mormon too) and I've heard her call Bachmann stupid, so I keep my distance because I've no patience with RINOs either. Closer to 11/12, I'll get out for individual candidates, but she'll get bupkis in terms of volunteer help or money.
Many people in this county, and country, loooove government and hate people. I used to try to explain that government is nothing more than people you hate having a go at you through the force of law and a loaded gun. They don't get it and I'm done.
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I hear and agree Don. I've been getting more vocal than usual with casual contacts lately. My tolerance of stupid has always been low, but it's getting lower!
Because I have a business in my hometown, I've attempted to be lowkey in regards to politics. But you know what, no more. Actually, there is so much political talk among my older patrons it has become easier. I live in a consrvative town and i cannot find anyone with any age on them who support obama. Normally, it is someone young who buys into the obama rhetoric who needs to hear the truth. It's what happened to me last nite.
We have become the stupid nation.
I may have mentioned last fall that I had been been working on the campaign of a local guy running for the state senate. Well he won and I went to his victory celebration. While there I ran into one of the directors of our company.
He didn't recognize me at first and I could see the gears turning as he struggled to figure out why I was there. He had no idea that I was a conservative because while I am a good listener, and I don't necessarily correct false impressions, I try not to tip my hand in the workplace.
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I don't want to necessarily tip my hand...but I am comtiplating getting a t shirt reading "danger, Hobbit".
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Many people in this county, and country, loooove government and hate people. I used to try to explain that government is nothing more than people you hate having a go at you through the force of law and a loaded gun. They don't get it and I'm done.
I read a quote recently, on here maybe, that went something like "the positivity with which one regards government is directly proportional to the disdain with which one regards his fellow man".
That's what all the statists have in common, a belief in the stupidity of others to the extent that they (who are always part of the exception, mind you) should be able to dictate the behavior of, and the choices available to, those others.
It's fundamentally un-American, and I resent the hell out of them for it.
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I don't want to necessarily tip my hand...but I am comtiplating getting a t shirt reading "danger, Hobbit".
::laughonfloor::
I lol'd; I admit it.
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Many people in this county, and country, loooove government and hate people. I used to try to explain that government is nothing more than people you hate having a go at you through the force of law and a loaded gun. They don't get it and I'm done.
I read a quote recently, on here maybe, that went something like "the positivity with which one regards government is directly proportional to the disdain with which one regards his fellow man".
That's what all the statists have in common, a belief in the stupidity of others to the extent that they (who are always part of the exception, mind you) should be able to dictate the behavior of, and the choices available to, those others.
It's fundamentally un-American, and I resent the hell out of them for it.
That Teresa Guilarducci (sp?) tomato. Perfect example.