It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => Economy => Topic started by: Weisshaupt on August 07, 2012, 04:32:57 PM
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http://www.smartmoney.com/borrow/student-loans/grandmas-new-financial-problem-college-debt-1344292084111/ (http://www.smartmoney.com/borrow/student-loans/grandmas-new-financial-problem-college-debt-1344292084111/)
Couldn't have happened to a nicer generation. Its been obvious that SS was going to Ponzi the second the Boomers were born, but still they did nothing. No, instead they increased the benefits.
But since you are taking SS as payment now, how about I default on my taxes and the Fed takes it out of my future SS benefits? I crack myself up.
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Pick a fight with a man too old to fight and...
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Pick a fight with a man too old to fight and...
He shoots you.
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Pick a fight with a man too old to fight and...
He shoots you.
Damn skippy. That goes for women as well.
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You read the comments at ZH and one cannot mistake the hatred the younger generation feels toward the aging hippie generation, the former feels fully robbed by the latter.
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You read the comments at ZH and one cannot mistake the hatred the younger generation feels toward the aging hippie generation, the former feels fully robbed by the latter.
Fully justified, in my opinion, but they're mad for some of the wrong reasons.
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You read the comments at ZH and one cannot mistake the hatred the younger generation feels toward the aging hippie generation, the former feels fully robbed by the latter.
Fully justified, in my opinion, but they're mad for some of the wrong reasons.
Yes, they often forget proper target recognition and lump all old folks into the greedy hippie slacker crowd.
Makes we wonder how happy some of the more rabid ones will be once/if they reach a certain age... ::)
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They grew up in a world where everything was for them.
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This is good, The Ben Bernanke plan ensures the dollar gets beaten into the dirt...
Doh! (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/bernanke-just-guaranteed-student-loan-bubble-will-be-next-financial-stability-issue?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+zerohedge%2Ffeed+%28zero+hedge+-+on+a+long+enough+timeline%2C+the+survival+rate+for+everyone+drops+to+zero%29)
The days of the dollar winning by default are running out...
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Yes, they often forget proper target recognition and lump all old folks into the greedy hippie slacker crowd.
Makes we wonder how happy some of the more rabid ones will be once/if they reach a certain age... ::)
I met too many of the older generation at Tea Parties - they still wanted to keep their SS and Medicare - after all , "they paid for it"
No, you allowed the government to steal it Bernie Maidoff style and now you want to force your kids and grandkids ( and kids and grandkids of people you don't even know) to replace the funds you lost.
The older generation, conservative and liberal, was sold on the safety net and they don't understand that its those programs that are and continue to be the problem.
My very conservative Stepdad even said FDR was a great President, for putting these things in place. He also asserted that FDR was't power hungry at all. I asked how many Presidents had served 4 terms and prompted the American people to pass an amendment preventing that from happening again.
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Yes, they often forget proper target recognition and lump all old folks into the greedy hippie slacker crowd.
Makes we wonder how happy some of the more rabid ones will be once/if they reach a certain age... ::)
I met too many of the older generation at Tea Parties - they still wanted to keep their SS and Medicare - after all , "they paid for it"
No, you allowed the government to steal it Bernie Maidoff style and now you want to force your kids and grandkids ( and kids and grandkids of people you don't even know) to replace the funds you lost.
The older generation, conservative and liberal, was sold on the safety net and they don't understand that its those programs that are and continue to be the problem.
My very conservative Stepdad even said FDR was a great President, for putting these things in place. He also asserted that FDR was't power hungry at all. I asked how many Presidents had served 4 terms and prompted the American people to pass an amendment preventing that from happening again.
Yeah, and these same folks think we're crazy because we don't buy the Ponzai scheme and don't want to screw over future generations, think we're extreme because we see FDR for the progressive/socialist tyrant he was and think we're insane by looking to fend for ourselves and foreswear gubmint handouts...
Down is up, wrong is right and isn't it such a nice day?!
::facepalm::
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Yes, they often forget proper target recognition and lump all old folks into the greedy hippie slacker crowd.
Makes we wonder how happy some of the more rabid ones will be once/if they reach a certain age... ::)
I met too many of the older generation at Tea Parties - they still wanted to keep their SS and Medicare - after all , "they paid for it"
No, you allowed the government to steal it Bernie Maidoff style and now you want to force your kids and grandkids ( and kids and grandkids of people you don't even know) to replace the funds you lost.
The older generation, conservative and liberal, was sold on the safety net and they don't understand that its those programs that are and continue to be the problem.
My very conservative Stepdad even said FDR was a great President, for putting these things in place. He also asserted that FDR was't power hungry at all. I asked how many Presidents had served 4 terms and prompted the American people to pass an amendment preventing that from happening again.
This sounds like my otherwise reliably Republican father. He and my older brother had many the heated debate over what a POS FDR was.
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I didn't understand why my Grandfather loathed FDR so much, but I didn't question him, I just accepted it. Not till I started hearing Reagan speak did I understand. Then I realized I had a lot more in common with my Grandfather than I had previously thought, which up till then consisted of a love for fishing and sweets.
::thumbsup::
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I met too many of the older generation at Tea Parties - they still wanted to keep their SS and Medicare - after all , "they paid for it"
No, you allowed the government to steal
We didn't allow sh*t, there was no more an option then than
there is now. How are you doing with that telling Obama to
go kiss himself? Correct, not one iota. Don't come for my
corn pone; there won't be a fight.
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I met too many of the older generation at Tea Parties - they still wanted to keep their SS and Medicare - after all , "they paid for it"
No, you allowed the government to steal
We didn't allow sh*t, there was no more an option then than
there is now. How are you doing with that telling Obama to
go kiss himself? Correct, not one iota. Don't come for my
corn pone; there won't be a fight.
In defense of the older ones, Weisshaupt, Charles has a point.
My parents have been voting Republican for all their lives, even living in the Dem cesspool that has almost always been NJ. We were fed good Italian-style food, and well, but there wasn't a lot of soda or junk. My mother had an orange juice rule -- only in the morning -- which meant that the last two ounces always went sour.
They've taken one big vacation, to Hawaii, for which they paid by my mother stashing house money in her purse every week. One. Never bought a new car; my father was a mechanic and he found good used ones and kept them running. None of their three children went to college, but they paid for three modest weddings (alright, two; my younger sister was a bitch) and lent house down-payment money for two of three -- for which I doubt they ever were repaid -- and co-signed the loan for my brother's tavern. My mother worked most of her life, much of my childhood and until she was sixty-two. And she snuck to me a thousand dollars to tide me over one of the worst times of my single-twenty's life. Neither of them went to college -- my father got a GED while in the military because he quit high school right before graduation over the issue of a Sharkskin suit for the prom. His father died while he was in Korea and he's still pissed off at the Red Cross over the donuts and coffee issue, and because they were less than no help getting him home for the funeral.
They took in mom's mother when my uncle, the alcoholic and ne'er-do-well died, and she lived with them for ten years and they saw to her, aside from what the SS/Medicare money, that had been taken from her pay all of her working life, bought.
They were able to save a little and invest a little. A little, despite my Mother being a squirreler. The FICA/SS/Medicare money deducted from the pay of both my parents could and would have gone toward paying for their retirement, but they had no choice in that. And of the SS checks they get, taxes are deducted still, and the govenment changed the accounting on that right before she retired to a calculation based on the last twenty quarters of one's working life instead of one based on the whole of one's working life.
I'm sure there are many elders for which means-testing would mean no change in their "life-style" because they all did well and are reputed to be the wealthiest amongst us. I'm equally as sure there are many like my parents from whom the government stole their independence.
Gunsmith and I are in a position to do what we can for them, but they'll take very little, and I doubt we could cover my Mother's second bout with cancer without putting us all in the poorhouse. (Too bad there wasn't an insurance policy they could have, and would have bought, instead of being left to the tender mercies of Medicare bureaucrats.) As it is, we helped my brother over his recent health troubles with a tide-over for his auto-repair business until he went back to work too soon.
I'm eleven years older than Gunsmith and I won't be signing up for my government "benefits" at the given age because we have the luxury, for now, of my piggy-backing on what we pay for his/our medical insurance, but once he's done or dead, so will I be. Unless something changes.
TMI, probably.
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I met too many of the older generation at Tea Parties - they still wanted to keep their SS and Medicare - after all , "they paid for it"
No, you allowed the government to steal
We didn't allow sh*t, there was no more an option then than
there is now. How are you doing with that telling Obama to
go kiss himself? Correct, not one iota. Don't come for my
corn pone; there won't be a fight.
I agree that there was no more chance to change it than than there is now.. because the older generation DIDN'T WANT and STILL DOESN'T WANT to give up the benefits that the younger generation will never see. As for telling Obama to shove off, I have spent my entire life savings preparing to resist him. I plan to give up a 6 figure job so he can't get tax revenue. I fully plan to die bleeding out in my driveway rather than to submit to Obama care. How many people in the older generation ever even TALKED about doing anything, much less those things, to resist SS, Medicare, or Welfare? There was no chance, because there was no will to resist - The older generation being bought and paid for by promises to rob my generation and my children's generation. That is where your Corn Pone is coming from. I don't have to come for it. I am the source of it, and I simply am no longer going to supply it. Of course that is all for my own sanity, because I feel duty bound to resist such tyranny, violently if required. Something that the Boomers obviously didn't have the guts or the will to do.
My solitary actions will of course mean diddly squat in the big picture. A single raindrop will not bring the flood. But even if I did nothing, those benefits can't be paid- because the economy can't grow at a pace required to provide the promised revenue - just like every other public pension system in the US- SS/Medicare were over-promised, with Obamacare adding even more fuel to the fire. . You may get paid your full due, but you won't be able to buy a single tin of cat food, much less corn pone, with it.
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They were able to save a little and invest a little. A little, despite my Mother being a squirreler. The FICA/SS/Medicare money deducted from the pay of both my parents could and would have gone toward paying for their retirement, but they had no choice in that.
No, they had the same choice that I am faced with. To accept it, or to resist by refusing to pay it. There are no doubt certain individuals who "got it" - and responded however they thought best for themselves and their families. I am not second-guessing your parents decisions. Maybe, in the end, I won't be able to go through with it either. My point is that many in the older generation, here at the bitter end of the road, still think they are owed SS, and still think the program is a good idea- even ones that are supposedly "conservative." They simply don't care that an ever increasing amount is being stolen from me -both via FICA and via inflation caused by the debt- so I can't save for my own retirement. I better not live to old age, because at 1% and with rigged markets you can't SAVE.. Any generation who would claim they had a right to retire on the backs of the next generation while denying the next generation any possibility of ever retiring at all, don't deserve the time of day, much less my hard earned labor.
I'm sure there are many elders for which means-testing would mean no change in their "life-style" because they all did well and are reputed to be the wealthiest amongst us. I'm equally as sure there are many like my parents from whom the government stole their independence.
The older generation has had another 20-40 years of a decent economy (primarily fueled by debt on future generations) to amass wealth, that I will never see. They aren't reputedly the wealthiest- they ARE the wealthiest. (http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/11/07/the-rising-age-gap-in-economic-well-being/)
Yes, its the sin of stereotyping- I am talking about groups and group behavior in aggregate. Obviously individual results will vary, and I am not without sympathy for individuals, who, for whatever reason, had their independence stolen. However, as soon as I hear they are still all for pointing a gun at my head to keep themselves on the gravy train, my sympathy evaporates, and sadly that has been the vast majority of those I talk to over 60. If I live that long, my family will be worse off than your parents. What sort of medical care will even be available after the disaster that is Obamacare? Because of the crisis, I can't even pretend to save for retirement- when we are too old to hunt and garden and carry on subsistence living, we will die. Its going to be the third world for me and my children. Your parents refuse to let you help because they want you to have more blood in your own veins, and I will want the same for my children. At least your parents have access to things now, while expensive, won't even be choices on the table for me or mine, even if the money was there.
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I absolutely see it from your/our point of view as well, my friend. There has been very little proper justice for too many for too long.
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There ain't no justice in this life.
There are 56 million folks on Medicare today (no SS, no medicare)
the ranks of those folks, who happen to include all Viet Nam vets,
is growing by 10,000 a day. These folks are your potential allies
by your words they are your enemy. Why do you insist on making
so many enemies who would otherwise be your ally?
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There ain't no justice in this life.
So that is an excuse to be the agent of injustice?
There are 56 million folks on Medicare today (no SS, no medicare)
the ranks of those folks, who happen to include all Viet Nam vets,
is growing by 10,000 a day. These folks are your potential allies
by your words they are your enemy. Why do you insist on making
so many enemies who would otherwise be your ally?
How can they be allies if they think that I should be slaving away so they can have a retirement I never will?
To me, they sound like they wish to be my slave masters, and that they have no problem with using the govt as a whip against their fellow citizens, as long as it benefits them. Sorry CO, but people who wish to be slave masters are no Allies of mine, and cannot be. You you don't understand slavery is wrong, then you can't fight for freedom, you only fight to be the master instead of the slave. Such people cannot be trusted, and you certainly can't have them watching your back, as the first thing they will do upon beating the other would-be slave masters, is attempt to shackle you as your enemy would have done.
The money is gone. It can only be had by whipping the younger generation, and depriving them of the chance to retire at all. Those who don't understand that, are as bad and as evil as those we fight.
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My parents just recently became eligible for SS. I am encouraging them to get what they can while they can, because this entire house of cards is near the end. Their earnings were stolen for their entire lives, and I say get as much of it back as possible.
But I also share Weisshaupt's sentiment. I have encountered some old people who have said they don't care if my generation is subject to 90% income tax if that's what it takes for their SS payments. Yeah thanks. I guess they already had their shot at the ranch house, the 2.3 kids and the Labrador, so screw everyone behind 'em. For my own part, not once in my life have I ever even considered the possibility that I will ever see a dime of Social Security. I've known it was a pyramid scheme since my first job at 16. They should just combine it with income tax, because that's all the hell it is.
I would probably not have such inconsistent opinions on SS if there was anything to indicate that life as we know it is going to keep chugging along. If we weren't about to careen over the fiscal cliff, I'd say we should dismantle SS in a controlled manner. Anyone at or above a certain age should be eligible to receive what they were promised, since that promise (putting aside the question of why did people choose to believe in it) profoundly affected the way people prepared for their later years and they are now in no position to do otherwise. Anyone below that age should just accept that they're never getting any of what they paid back, but are now free to do with their own earnings as they see fit.
But that's never happening, and the end is near, so I say "smoke 'em if you've got 'em".
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My parents just recently became eligible for SS. I am encouraging them to get what they can while they can, because this entire house of cards is near the end. Their earnings were stolen for their entire lives, and I say get as much of it back as possible....
I would probably not have such inconsistent opinions on SS if there was anything to indicate that life as we know it is going to keep chugging along.
I don't think this is inconsistent at all, and mirrors my sentiments exactly. Everyone here should be doing anything they can to legally get on the dole and get their OWN MONEY back before this thing goes kablooie. I also wish there was time to fix this in a controlled manner. There isn't, and neither party in Washington is going to try - because too many entitled seniors would complain- even f it was just means testing. However, I see a huge difference between "smoking if you got em" and advocating, voting for and continuing to hold a gun to someone's head to get more. There is something fundamentally immoral about anyone who thinks that they can consume more than what they consume, or who even wants to take wealth from someone who doesn't offer it up voluntarily. If the younger generation says No to generational theft, where the older generation did not, I can't see that the older generation has any right to complain. They knew it was wrong and participated anyway.
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The Ryan plan offered a transition out of generational theft, he was excoriated by the left and stabbed in the back by his so-called own, let's hope as Veep he can be the point man to whip those congresscritters in line on a whole range of issues. That should be the plan anyway...we shall see.
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The Ryan plan offered a transition out of generational theft, he was excoriated by the left and stabbed in the back by his so-called own, let's hope as Veep he can be the point man to whip those congresscritters in line on a whole range of issues. That should be the plan anyway...we shall see.
In the middle of the night that exact thought slid right between the lobes.
Rush has said that Romney's tough the question is how will he apply it.
This is a positive indication.
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Wolf Blitzer demanding the poodle recognize that the Boomers won't be affected by Ryan's Plan. (http://hotair.com/archives/2012/08/13/video-lifelike-talking-points-robot-doesnt-like-being-reminded-that-ryans-medicare-plan-wont-affect-seniors/)
After all, Ryan's plan is only chance Boomer Wolf Blitzer, age 64, will get any Social Security at all. The boomers already proved themselves willing to sell out future generations. Ryan is pretty damn smart to bet on them doing it again.
UPDATE: Ah, it was all a plot to get more people in debt so they could forgive the loans and make them Democrat voters for life. (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/08/culture-of-corruption-il-state-workers-forced-to-attend-pelosi-jackson-dinner-on-taxpayer-dime/)
Rev. Jackson also encouraged the government employees to load first-generation and low-income college students up with student loan debt — because Democrats in Congress, he allegedly promised, would eventually pass laws to forgive that debt later." Those people will continue to vote Democratic,” Jackson Sr. said, according to the whistle-blower
Open Admission of the Cloward-Piven agenda. Death is too good for them. They need to be locked in a box in a swamp and given nothing but water till they die of starvation, all the while listening the audio-book version of the Federalist over and over.
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Hmm...
Seems like you're letting them off too easy though Weisshaupt. What's up with that?! ::pokeineye:: ;D
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53% would rather raise taxes to pay for SS (http://news.yahoo.com/ap-gfk-poll-raise-taxes-save-social-security-142704918.html?_esi=1)
15% of the population is over 65, and the other 38% are too young, stupid or liberal to care they will never get a dime, but want to raise their taxes anyway lest an elderly parent becomes their sole responsibility to care for.
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We are a nation of stupid. Like raising taxes will "solve" the SS mess. I had to explain this to a set of my grandparents. We have a spending problem, raising taxes won't solve your fear of losing SS, your leader will just run the debt higher and spend the money in some other "compassionate" venue.
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The effect of Boomers on SSI (http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-recession-and-social-security.html)
[quote]Here, we note that there is a distinct spike in disabled workers receiving Social Security disability benefits at Age 50, regardless of each year's economic climate. Here, we earlier found that this corresponds to the Social Security Administration's policy of not seriously challenging the disability claims of workers Age 50 or older.....
Altogether then, we estimate that some 695,228 individuals, above and beyond the numbers that might be considered to be normal, have filed for and received Social Security disability insurance benefits in response to the Great Recession in the years from 2008 through 2011. We also note that the timing of the increase in the disability rolls would correspond to when many of these individuals would have exhausted their unemployment benefits, suggesting that going on disability became an alternative to seeking gainful employment for these individuals.
And that's a big reason why Social Security's Disability Insurance Trust Fund is now projected to be fully depleted in less than four years time.[/quote]
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qErL_5ejCHY/UDvaHBkzS2I/AAAAAAAAF6g/9Rb-bdP6cKM/s1600/za-age-distribution-ss-disabled-workers-2005-2011.png)
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Obamacare death panels were going to take care of this pesky problem.