Author Topic: VW helps to victimize itself  (Read 2515 times)

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Offline Libertas

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VW helps to victimize itself
« on: September 21, 2015, 11:19:30 AM »
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/09/21/vw-chief-sorry-after-epa-says-firm-skirted-clean-air-law/

This kind of crap is bound to be encountered more and more...and it is a direct result of paying mindless obedience to the cult of climate fraud!

It is better to close your doors than to cave into these bastards, now they've porked their investors as well as their employees...and all the subs they work with and who knows how many banks and insurance companies etc etc...

Maybe they didn't give enough under the table cash to the right people.
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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2015, 12:43:51 PM »
Another point of view, and be sure to read the comments.

Fox found two whiners complaining about being lied to because the car isn't "clean", but I'm betting most people with one don't give a crap about that and isn't why they bought it.  I'm sorry, (not really) but I'm laughing.  VW obeyed the letter of the "law" because it said the car had to test "clean" ----- and it does.
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Offline richb

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2015, 12:46:43 PM »
The federal government really hates diesel powered cars,  the main reason why there are so few new ones being sold in the good old USA.  VW sells almost all the non luxury ones now,  so they have to be kept in line you know.   Would explain VW being the last to install DEF tanks.   The EPA been going after all aftermarket DEF delete kits lately,  as most diesel users, especially pickup truck owners are annoyed by them.  DEF tanks rob mileage and horsepower to eliminate an insignificant amount of pollution (not even regulated by the EU even).   If the tank is empty,  the computer will not allow the car or truck to even start!     Most parts of the world diesel powers a good portion of the economy cars.  Here in the US they are largely limited to luxury cars and big pickups due to the stupid regs. 

Offline Libertas

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2015, 01:24:36 PM »
Another point of view, and be sure to read the comments.

Fox found two whiners complaining about being lied to because the car isn't "clean", but I'm betting most people with one don't give a crap about that and isn't why they bought it.  I'm sorry, (not really) but I'm laughing.  VW obeyed the letter of the "law" because it said the car had to test "clean" ----- and it does.

I'm inclined to think this has a lot to do with it - "EPA is mostly an agency used to control markets, not pollution."

As most crony capitalists are hand in hand with statists...the comment above is the partner to my quip about missing a payoff.  But tabling the issue of a missed payoff it is easy to see why a bunch of statist clowns would see body-slamming a foreign-owned car maker as a ploy to direct (so they stupidly hope) more business to Obama Motors.  That the EPA slammed VW indicates to me they perhaps were not on the VW payroll to start with...and I doubt VW is the only outfit trying to scam the Fedcoat goons.

I guess I never saw a benefit to a diesel passenger vehicle, especially in this climate, the F350 dual-axel my BIL has is a horse and it works well pushing a snow plow and hauling heavy trailers...but it has to have the engine heater plug connected in winter to keep the block warm.  No doubt there were subsidies and other promo's going on with these passenger diesels and the fart-sniffers who wanted them blindly went about their smugness if it factored at all.

If this mainly affects assclowns in EPA-PsuedoStates like California don't expect me to give a rip!   ::smallestviolin::

It would have been better for VW (or anyone) to avoid this Prog-driven eco-market crap and let domestic crony outfits bungle in it.  If that meant writing off CA sales, so be it!

I think it is funny what they did, but we all know Progs and Fedcoats have NO sense of humor...and will exploit anybody for their own gain no matter what.  Knowing there is a trap is the first step in avoiding it.  I would have chosen not play this game.

As to the emissions crap and performance issues, I know for fact that certain after-market devices can be used to boost horsepower etc, I'm sure the trade off is even worse fuel efficiency, how that affects the emission crap I don't know nor does anybody probably care.  Last I heard nobody was going after these after-market producers...though  that probably is going to happen the deeper we descend into statist tar pits.
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Offline Glock32

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2015, 01:34:04 PM »
I wonder if this is disconnected from the fact that VW's workforce at their Tennessee factory declined to unionize.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2015, 01:46:12 PM »
It probably didn't help VW.

Oh, and btw...

Obama Motors killed 174 people and compared to VW got off light, but Progs value eco-worship and obedience to their bureaucrats above those cronies whose products merely kill a few folks...

Embrace the suck!
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Offline richb

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2015, 03:13:14 PM »
Another point of view, and be sure to read the comments.

Fox found two whiners complaining about being lied to because the car isn't "clean", but I'm betting most people with one don't give a crap about that and isn't why they bought it.  I'm sorry, (not really) but I'm laughing.  VW obeyed the letter of the "law" because it said the car had to test "clean" ----- and it does.

I'm inclined to think this has a lot to do with it - "EPA is mostly an agency used to control markets, not pollution."

As most crony capitalists are hand in hand with statists...the comment above is the partner to my quip about missing a payoff.  But tabling the issue of a missed payoff it is easy to see why a bunch of statist clowns would see body-slamming a foreign-owned car maker as a ploy to direct (so they stupidly hope) more business to Obama Motors.  That the EPA slammed VW indicates to me they perhaps were not on the VW payroll to start with...and I doubt VW is the only outfit trying to scam the Fedcoat goons.

I guess I never saw a benefit to a diesel passenger vehicle, especially in this climate, the F350 dual-axel my BIL has is a horse and it works well pushing a snow plow and hauling heavy trailers...but it has to have the engine heater plug connected in winter to keep the block warm.  No doubt there were subsidies and other promo's going on with these passenger diesels and the fart-sniffers who wanted them blindly went about their smugness if it factored at all.

If this mainly affects assclowns in EPA-PsuedoStates like California don't expect me to give a rip!   ::smallestviolin::

It would have been better for VW (or anyone) to avoid this Prog-driven eco-market crap and let domestic crony outfits bungle in it.  If that meant writing off CA sales, so be it!

I think it is funny what they did, but we all know Progs and Fedcoats have NO sense of humor...and will exploit anybody for their own gain no matter what.  Knowing there is a trap is the first step in avoiding it.  I would have chosen not play this game.

As to the emissions crap and performance issues, I know for fact that certain after-market devices can be used to boost horsepower etc, I'm sure the trade off is even worse fuel efficiency, how that affects the emission crap I don't know nor does anybody probably care.  Last I heard nobody was going after these after-market producers...though  that probably is going to happen the deeper we descend into statist tar pits.



The EPA has been going after aftermarket producers quite a bit lately.   Several have paid millions in fines and some are now out of business as a result.  Its still legal to remove emissions equipment for off road racing,  but nothing else anymore.    So many kits are sold as race only, off road, wink wink.   

The DEF tank is something that would have never otherwise been added to diesel vehicles but by government edict.   The DEF fluid is used to inject unburned particulates back into the combustion chamber to burn them up.    It robs from the engine,  horsepower and decreases mileage (by quite a bit in some vehicles),  so in many ways,  it probably doesn't actually decrease emissions because your burning more fuel overall, and getting less power, and some as a result will buy a bigger engine to cope.   Its one of those "it sounds like it helps" but in reality is bullsh*t.

It also decreases the advantages of owning and operating a diesel vehicle.   You lose mileage,  you lose power.    It increases engine complexity (diesels being more simple then gas)  for buyers,  which increases maintenance and repair costs.  The emission equipment is well known for it unreliability (even on new vehicles) and high cost of repairs.  It may not be a big deal for the first owner of a diesel truck (under warranty),  but when that truck is 15 years old and on its third owner, its going to be a big deal,  as it will be a big repair bill for the person least likely to be able to afford it.   So between the high costs of repairs and the basically unknown results of 15 years of burning the particulates in the engine,  the diesel engine may lose its well known longevity. 

So a delete DEF kit may be the most economical choice for many buyers.   They get the horsepower and mileage back, and you don't have the engine ruined by emissions equipment.

Its part of the government war on older vehicles (5-20 year old vehicles that is) and the people unwilling to go deeply in debt to be driving a new car all the time. They have a problem now that the average car doesn't rust away by its 5th birthday anymore and that a ten year old car is often got many good years left on it.  So it's add this bullsh*t equipment that makes it cost too much to keep that old truck. 

Keep in mind,  over the last 30 years,  the pollution from cars has decreased by 97%.  The average 2010 car pollutes 97% less then the average 1975 car.  In some ways a huge success.  HOWEVER all the low hanging fruit is long gone, and that last 3% is going to be the most expensive to try to remove.    But the government wants it anyway,  even though it doesn't really do anything.   Keep in mind when they say they will reduce emissions by 30%.   That 30% is a fraction of what is really 3%.   Economically stupid to bankrupt everyone trying to get it.

Offline Libertas

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2015, 07:48:35 AM »
Another point of view, and be sure to read the comments.

Fox found two whiners complaining about being lied to because the car isn't "clean", but I'm betting most people with one don't give a crap about that and isn't why they bought it.  I'm sorry, (not really) but I'm laughing.  VW obeyed the letter of the "law" because it said the car had to test "clean" ----- and it does.

I'm inclined to think this has a lot to do with it - "EPA is mostly an agency used to control markets, not pollution."

As most crony capitalists are hand in hand with statists...the comment above is the partner to my quip about missing a payoff.  But tabling the issue of a missed payoff it is easy to see why a bunch of statist clowns would see body-slamming a foreign-owned car maker as a ploy to direct (so they stupidly hope) more business to Obama Motors.  That the EPA slammed VW indicates to me they perhaps were not on the VW payroll to start with...and I doubt VW is the only outfit trying to scam the Fedcoat goons.

I guess I never saw a benefit to a diesel passenger vehicle, especially in this climate, the F350 dual-axel my BIL has is a horse and it works well pushing a snow plow and hauling heavy trailers...but it has to have the engine heater plug connected in winter to keep the block warm.  No doubt there were subsidies and other promo's going on with these passenger diesels and the fart-sniffers who wanted them blindly went about their smugness if it factored at all.

If this mainly affects assclowns in EPA-PsuedoStates like California don't expect me to give a rip!   ::smallestviolin::

It would have been better for VW (or anyone) to avoid this Prog-driven eco-market crap and let domestic crony outfits bungle in it.  If that meant writing off CA sales, so be it!

I think it is funny what they did, but we all know Progs and Fedcoats have NO sense of humor...and will exploit anybody for their own gain no matter what.  Knowing there is a trap is the first step in avoiding it.  I would have chosen not play this game.

As to the emissions crap and performance issues, I know for fact that certain after-market devices can be used to boost horsepower etc, I'm sure the trade off is even worse fuel efficiency, how that affects the emission crap I don't know nor does anybody probably care.  Last I heard nobody was going after these after-market producers...though  that probably is going to happen the deeper we descend into statist tar pits.



The EPA has been going after aftermarket producers quite a bit lately.   Several have paid millions in fines and some are now out of business as a result.  Its still legal to remove emissions equipment for off road racing,  but nothing else anymore.    So many kits are sold as race only, off road, wink wink.   

The DEF tank is something that would have never otherwise been added to diesel vehicles but by government edict.   The DEF fluid is used to inject unburned particulates back into the combustion chamber to burn them up.    It robs from the engine,  horsepower and decreases mileage (by quite a bit in some vehicles),  so in many ways,  it probably doesn't actually decrease emissions because your burning more fuel overall, and getting less power, and some as a result will buy a bigger engine to cope.   Its one of those "it sounds like it helps" but in reality is bullsh*t.

It also decreases the advantages of owning and operating a diesel vehicle.   You lose mileage,  you lose power.    It increases engine complexity (diesels being more simple then gas)  for buyers,  which increases maintenance and repair costs.  The emission equipment is well known for it unreliability (even on new vehicles) and high cost of repairs.  It may not be a big deal for the first owner of a diesel truck (under warranty),  but when that truck is 15 years old and on its third owner, its going to be a big deal,  as it will be a big repair bill for the person least likely to be able to afford it.   So between the high costs of repairs and the basically unknown results of 15 years of burning the particulates in the engine,  the diesel engine may lose its well known longevity. 

So a delete DEF kit may be the most economical choice for many buyers.   They get the horsepower and mileage back, and you don't have the engine ruined by emissions equipment.

Its part of the government war on older vehicles (5-20 year old vehicles that is) and the people unwilling to go deeply in debt to be driving a new car all the time. They have a problem now that the average car doesn't rust away by its 5th birthday anymore and that a ten year old car is often got many good years left on it.  So it's add this bullsh*t equipment that makes it cost too much to keep that old truck. 

Keep in mind,  over the last 30 years,  the pollution from cars has decreased by 97%.  The average 2010 car pollutes 97% less then the average 1975 car.  In some ways a huge success.  HOWEVER all the low hanging fruit is long gone, and that last 3% is going to be the most expensive to try to remove.    But the government wants it anyway,  even though it doesn't really do anything.   Keep in mind when they say they will reduce emissions by 30%.   That 30% is a fraction of what is really 3%.   Economically stupid to bankrupt everyone trying to get it.

Excellent info Rich.  I'm soooo tired of that  " 'it sounds like it helps' but in reality is bullsh*t." bullsh*t!!!  And this insanely uneconomic chase after fractional particulates is the SAME effing stupid tack they took with coal--fired plants!  You simply cannot scrub out anymore!  But after they could go no further with that they switched to ending coal at the source.  These effing psychotic eco-terrorists never stop...and nobody ever pushed their BS back down their throats...which probably disappoints and pisses me off even more.

Seeing crap like this just makes it hard to refute in any meaningful way that we are indeed completely porked!
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Offline Libertas

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2015, 11:51:13 AM »
Oh, and thanks to ZH, some evidence to support my earlier comment about payoffs...



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-22/dear-volkswagen-was-your-biggest-mistake
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Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2015, 07:17:12 PM »
I went to a local neighborhood car show weekend before last. I love old cars but there was one point where I was behind an old Plymouth that was burning so rich that my clothes and hair stunk of raw gasoline for a full day.

Anyone who drove cars built in the late 70's remembers engine run-on or dieseling that would occur when you turned off the ignition but the engine kept running (sort-of). So I applauded the efforts of car manufacturers to make cleaner burning products. But I remember learning the instrumental lesson that "given half a chance the government can even F up a marble". Idiotic, impractical rules imposed by an iron hand invariably resulted in Rube Goldberg-like mechanisms that barely did anything to "fix the problem" but did result in unreliable and finicky engines.

I still recall gutting emission controls from cars - but that was before I got smart and re-registered all my vehicles to a county where they don't do emissions testing.

 ::devil::

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2015, 07:31:41 PM »
Quote
Anyone who drove cars built in the late 70's remembers engine run-on or dieseling that would occur when you turned off the ignition but the engine kept running (sort-of).

Yep.  IIRC, that's called pre-ignition because it replicates the process that starts the engine.
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Offline Glock32

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2015, 07:19:16 PM »
On another note, it's interesting reading comments sections on German news sites (use Google Translate) and how aghast they are that their cars would be called out by the American EPA.  They just assumed that their enviro moonbattery was clearly superior to the philistine Americans'.
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Offline richb

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2015, 05:03:19 PM »
On another note, it's interesting reading comments sections on German news sites (use Google Translate) and how aghast they are that their cars would be called out by the American EPA.  They just assumed that their enviro moonbattery was clearly superior to the philistine Americans'.

When it comes to diesel cars,  they aren't even in the running.

There are plenty of diesel vehicles sold worldwide that could be sold here,  but the USA has some very weird rules about diesels,  enough to not make it worthwhile.   If it's not worthwhile to get a model passed in the USA, one of the biggest new car markets,  the rules are entirely to blame.

Mazda (skyactiv) for example has diesels in many of its models,  but none are offered in the US.   They claim they will someday offer them here,  but its been years, and they still aren't here.   I imagine this "scandal" will lead to a quiet press release that they will stop trying to bring them here.  A pity, since they are a fine product that would increase their cars appeal. 

To be frank,  I think it criminal on the part of the government that they made it so VW had to "cheat" in order to bring a model to the US that buyers would want.

To be honest,  I didn't think a major company like VW would have the balls to even try to cheat.   My opinion of VW increased,  well until they started up the back pedaling.    They actually put their buyers ahead of the government.

Oh,  and by the way, it wasn't the EPA that caught the cheating.   They were falling for it until an outside green group clued them into it.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 05:11:36 PM by richb »

Offline Glock32

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2015, 06:47:58 PM »
I bought a new VW back in April, though not a diesel.  I really like the car.  My first car was also a VW.  I like that they had the nuts to do this, claiming the rules only said a vehicle must test at certain levels.

And you're right, the rest of the world embraced diesel passenger cars a long time ago.  VW has models that get 80+ miles per gallon.  The treehuggers have imposed rules that are often at odds with each other.  One example is the battle between fuel efficiency and emissions.  I think there was a version of the Honda CRX in the early 90s or late 80s that was getting around 50 miles per gallon, but when new emissions rules went into effect they could no longer import that model.  Seems like it was called the Honda CRX HF or something like that.
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Offline richb

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2015, 12:58:59 AM »
My cousin's step kid has a diesel Jetta TDI and he thinks its great.   He drives for his job, and gets great mileage with it.    He is still defending it,  making fun of Prius owners which made me laugh.   But to be honest,  his diesel Jetta is more "green" then a Prius.   

And yup the "goals" are at odds with each other.   Safety equipment added over the last decade have added over 500 pounds of new weight,  one of the reasons why mileage hasn't been going up.   The weight has cancelled out all the technology gains in fuel efficiencies,  so it leveled out for the most part.

Offline warpmine

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2015, 12:30:37 PM »
Another point of view, and be sure to read the comments.

Fox found two whiners complaining about being lied to because the car isn't "clean", but I'm betting most people with one don't give a crap about that and isn't why they bought it.  I'm sorry, (not really) but I'm laughing.  VW obeyed the letter of the "law" because it said the car had to test "clean" ----- and it does.

I'm inclined to think this has a lot to do with it - "EPA is mostly an agency used to control markets, not pollution."

As most crony capitalists are hand in hand with statists...the comment above is the partner to my quip about missing a payoff.  But tabling the issue of a missed payoff it is easy to see why a bunch of statist clowns would see body-slamming a foreign-owned car maker as a ploy to direct (so they stupidly hope) more business to Obama Motors.  That the EPA slammed VW indicates to me they perhaps were not on the VW payroll to start with...and I doubt VW is the only outfit trying to scam the Fedcoat goons.

I guess I never saw a benefit to a diesel passenger vehicle, especially in this climate, the F350 dual-axel my BIL has is a horse and it works well pushing a snow plow and hauling heavy trailers...but it has to have the engine heater plug connected in winter to keep the block warm.  No doubt there were subsidies and other promo's going on with these passenger diesels and the fart-sniffers who wanted them blindly went about their smugness if it factored at all.

If this mainly affects assclowns in EPA-PsuedoStates like California don't expect me to give a rip!   ::smallestviolin::

It would have been better for VW (or anyone) to avoid this Prog-driven eco-market crap and let domestic crony outfits bungle in it.  If that meant writing off CA sales, so be it!

I think it is funny what they did, but we all know Progs and Fedcoats have NO sense of humor...and will exploit anybody for their own gain no matter what.  Knowing there is a trap is the first step in avoiding it.  I would have chosen not play this game.

As to the emissions crap and performance issues, I know for fact that certain after-market devices can be used to boost horsepower etc, I'm sure the trade off is even worse fuel efficiency, how that affects the emission crap I don't know nor does anybody probably care.  Last I heard nobody was going after these after-market producers...though  that probably is going to happen the deeper we descend into statist tar pits.
Most vile is the fact of the matter is the Obama fedcoats play this f**king "letter of the law" game all the time with nary a progtard word so I'm with you "F" them and their holier than thou attitude.
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Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2015, 06:43:08 PM »
Great News, America! John Edward's law firm (yes. THAT John Edwards) has filed the first money grab civil litigation against VW America to punish that damn lyin' cheatin' and stealing Kraut Car Company!

Quote
Edwards Kirby, a national law practice led by former U.S. Senator John Edwards and David Kirby, has filed a class action complaint against Volkswagen for fraudulent conduct on behalf of plaintiffs in North Carolina.

See: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/25/nc-edwards-kirby-idUSnBw255804a+100+BSW20150925

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2015, 07:52:04 PM »
Quote
..... on behalf of plaintiffs in North Carolina.

Quote
... The lead plaintiff in the suit, Donald Kevin Vinson of Highland, North Carolina ...

Anywhere near Chapel Hill?  ::snort::
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Offline Libertas

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Re: VW helps to victimize itself
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2015, 12:22:36 PM »
Sounds about right for carcass-feeder outfits...

Won't this cut into Breck Girls sexploitation fun?
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