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Offline John Florida

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question
« on: April 27, 2018, 06:57:47 PM »
 Can a metal building be uses as a Faraday cage?
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Re: question
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2018, 07:16:39 PM »
I never heard of a Faraday Cage before, so I had to look it up. Now I know more than I did before. Thanks John!
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: question
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2018, 07:17:03 PM »
A Proper Faraday Cage also has a metal bottom.  But yes a steel building will provide some E&M pulse protection, but gaps, like garage doors , etc may allow some EM to leak through

Offline John Florida

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Re: question
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2018, 08:45:03 PM »
A Proper Faraday Cage also has a metal bottom.  But yes a steel building will provide some E&M pulse protection, but gaps, like garage doors , etc may allow some EM to leak through

 Even if grounded every 24" ? It's on a slab with rods buried in it.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: question
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2018, 08:12:31 AM »
From the interwebs :

Quote
"The reason why it doesn't work is the EMP, especially the ones generated by high altitude nukes, is strong enough to induce currents in metal shells that cause secondary or induced EMP's inside. The longer the conducting path, the larger this current. So large metal buildings, by themselves, will not work. You have to use multiple layers of carefully designed shielding. So a large metal building, with shielded seams, followed by a layer of less conductive but magnetic material like transformer steel or mu-metal, followed by an electrically insulating layer, followed by another conductive shell, followed by less electrically conductive but magnetic material followed by another insulator...followed by another conductive shell...

You get the idea...
Any electrically conductive pass throughs should be avoided at all costs...
Electrical connections, pipes (water, gas, sewer,) signal lines, or RF shielded cable pass throughs should be avoided. Fiber optic line should be o.k. as long as it does not have a conductive shield, which it shouldn't"

Basically its just such a HUGE wave front that you need multiple -completely conductive and completely  attached - layers. and You can't have metalic pipes or wires going into the building - these act as antennas.. and any doors must be grounded to the rest of the structure - ideally on all sides.
 
So  no, your metal building will not qualify as a Faraday cage. But its better than nothing. But Really , and EMP is just so devastating.. its nearly impossible and very, very expensive to prepare for.. and What if the attacking country detonates a second EMP a week or two after the first?

Check out this concrete :  https://www.engadget.com/2016/11/16/spray-on-conductive-concrete-anti-emp-attacks/

Offline John Florida

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Re: question
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2018, 12:02:16 PM »
  Would electronics be damaged if there was no power going through/to them?
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Re: question
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2018, 01:43:26 PM »
  Would electronics be damaged if there was no power going through/to them?

They don't have to be plugged in or on, so, yes.

When next are you coming to NC, and how is Nan?
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Offline John Florida

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Re: question
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2018, 04:09:26 PM »
  Would electronics be damaged if there was no power going through/to them?

They don't have to be plugged in or on, so, yes.

When next are you coming to NC, and how is Nan?

 Nan is doing well the stitches come out next week. We close on the 7th and will be heading north the same day. Should be unloading the trailer on the 8th. Septic system is done passed inpection and buried. The well driller will be done early next week the power company will run the underground next week I forgot to call on thurs. and left him a message on fri. to make sure he runs the 400 amp wire and what day he will do it.

    Gunsmith ready for temp pole?
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Re: question
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2018, 07:55:55 PM »
I could have sworn we talked about Faraday Cages before. First, there's the U-toob video showing how to make one using a metal garbage can and metallic tape. Works well and is large enough to put in radios, laptops, and other electronics.

For smaller stuff like cellphones I use the metal tins that they sell with Christmas cookies and fruitcakes. You can find them in a variety of sizes and shapes. Seal the seam with the metallic tape and you have something that will hopefully survive the blast.

I have one that I keep a spare condenser and voltage regulator for my '37 - she'll be running when everything else is dead as a doornail!


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Re: question
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2018, 09:02:12 PM »
  Would electronics be damaged if there was no power going through/to them?

They don't have to be plugged in or on, so, yes.

When next are you coming to NC, and how is Nan?

 Nan is doing well the stitches come out next week. We close on the 7th and will be heading north the same day. Should be unloading the trailer on the 8th. Septic system is done passed inpection and buried. The well driller will be done early next week the power company will run the underground next week I forgot to call on thurs. and left him a message on fri. to make sure he runs the 400 amp wire and what day he will do it.

    Gunsmith ready for temp pole?

Good on Nan.

Gregg will call you tomorrow about pole and such.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: question
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2018, 08:04:25 AM »
I could have sworn we talked about Faraday Cages before. First, there's the U-toob video showing how to make one using a metal garbage can and metallic tape. Works well and is large enough to put in radios, laptops, and other electronics.

For smaller stuff like cellphones I use the metal tins that they sell with Christmas cookies and fruitcakes. You can find them in a variety of sizes and shapes. Seal the seam with the metallic tape and you have something that will hopefully survive the blast.

I have one that I keep a spare condenser and voltage regulator for my '37 - she'll be running when everything else is dead as a doornail!

The E&M wave front can sometimes be so strong that currents on the outside surface of the cage can induce a new E&M front on the inside surface.  to truely harden against such an event you need multiple layers..  So that trash can in a metal building, and smaller contents inside wrapped in a conductive foil...

The more layers the better.

But remember that two weeks after the first attack, another may come and wipe out the stored stuff and you will probably still have no news at all of what happened, ot why . ...Real EMP attacks are very difficult to  prep for.

One layer is probably enough to survive a Carrington event - depending on intensity and which side of the planet you are on an how long the event lasts.

Offline Libertas

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Re: question
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2018, 02:24:56 PM »
I could have sworn we talked about Faraday Cages before. First, there's the U-toob video showing how to make one using a metal garbage can and metallic tape. Works well and is large enough to put in radios, laptops, and other electronics.

For smaller stuff like cellphones I use the metal tins that they sell with Christmas cookies and fruitcakes. You can find them in a variety of sizes and shapes. Seal the seam with the metallic tape and you have something that will hopefully survive the blast.

I have one that I keep a spare condenser and voltage regulator for my '37 - she'll be running when everything else is dead as a doornail!

The E&M wave front can sometimes be so strong that currents on the outside surface of the cage can induce a new E&M front on the inside surface.  to truely harden against such an event you need multiple layers..  So that trash can in a metal building, and smaller contents inside wrapped in a conductive foil...

The more layers the better.

But remember that two weeks after the first attack, another may come and wipe out the stored stuff and you will probably still have no news at all of what happened, ot why . ...Real EMP attacks are very difficult to  prep for.

One layer is probably enough to survive a Carrington event - depending on intensity and which side of the planet you are on an how long the event lasts.

It's like those Russian Matryoska nesting dolls...just with non-conductive metal and insulation.

Best to keep whatever you have nested, only take what you need out for a moment, return it when done....only way to be sure all is not lost.
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