Author Topic: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?  (Read 104261 times)

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charlesoakwood

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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #200 on: October 08, 2011, 11:51:29 PM »

Hitler finds out CBS is reporting on Fast & Furious

Hitler finds out CBS is reporting on Operation Fast and Furious



RickZ

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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #201 on: October 09, 2011, 03:26:03 AM »

Hitler finds out CBS is reporting on Fast & Furious

This is a good one, one of the better ones, actually.  The dramatic pause as he takes off his glasses when Hitler finds out he's lost CBS. . . .

"Now, if CBS had reported it. . . . We had our chance to do some serious gun-grabbing and blew it!"

Offline John Florida

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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #202 on: October 09, 2011, 10:02:41 AM »
CO all I can say is ::hat-tip:: ::clapping:: ::bows::
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 11:08:08 AM by John Florida »
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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #203 on: October 09, 2011, 10:27:18 AM »
That's the best "Hitler finds out" I've seen since the Brett Favre one.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #204 on: October 09, 2011, 10:35:43 AM »
Something tells me the gun-grabbing just got easier with Reid employing the nuclear option in the Senate...there isn't some Pelosi Era legislation that stalled in the Senate they will attempt to ram through is there?  They do and civil war is a certainty!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #205 on: October 10, 2011, 07:00:37 AM »
More of Holder's guns show up in cartel enforcer's home...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-atf-guns-20111009,0,6431788.story?track=rss

...wonder how many deaths can be traced back to these...more blood on The Regime's hands!


We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline IronDioPriest

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Issa to Holder: You own Fast & Furious
« Reply #206 on: October 10, 2011, 01:50:33 PM »
Issa's full letter, and HotAir commentary, at HotAir...

Issa to Holder: You own Fast and Furious, champ

...Your letter dated October 7 is deeply disappointing. Instead of pledging all necessary resources to assist the congressional investigation in discovering the truth behind the fundamentally flawed Operation Fast and Furious, your letter instead did little but obfuscate, shift blame, berate, and attempt to change the topic away from the Department’s responsibility in the creation, implementation, and authorization of this reckless program. You claim that, after months of silence, you “must now address these issues” over Fast and Furious because of the harmful discourse of the past few days. Yet, the only major development of these past few days has been the release of multiple documents showing that you and your senior staff had been briefed, on numerous occasions, about Fast and Furious.

Mr. Attorney General, you have made numerous statements about Fast and Furious that have eventually been proven to be untrue. Your lack of trustworthiness while speaking about Fast and Furious has called into question your overall credibility as Attorney General. The time for deflecting blame and obstructing our investigation is over. The time has come for you to come clean to the American public about what you knew about Fast and Furious, when you knew it, and who is going to be held accountable for failing to shut down a program that has already had deadly consequences, and will likely cause more casualties for years to come.

Operation Fast and Furious was the Department’s most significant gun trafficking case. It related to two of your major initiatives – destroying the Mexican cartels and reducing gun violence on both sides of the border. On your watch, it went spectacularly wrong. Whether you realize yet or not, you own Fast and Furious. It is your responsibility.

"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #207 on: October 10, 2011, 02:06:45 PM »
That's gonna leave a mark  ;)

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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #208 on: October 10, 2011, 04:37:56 PM »
How dishonest has the democratic party become?  I guess murder is not an actionable offense. Eric Holder is responsible for the deaths associated with this program.......This is one time "blame Bush" isn't gonna work.

The silence against Holder speaks volumes.
I'm not always engulfed in scandals, but when I am, I make sure I blame others.

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Subpoena Watch: Issa to issue F & F subpoena's today? (10/11/11)
« Reply #209 on: October 11, 2011, 10:40:21 AM »
Issa to subpoena Holder, perhaps today

CBS News reports that Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA), chair of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, will issue a subpoena for Eric Holder to produce in their entirety a series of documents pertaining to Operation Fast and Furious. The subpoena could come as early as today, and push a simmering conflict between the House and the Obama administration onto center stage...

...The subpoena will be an unmistakable escalation between Issa and the Obama administration, but the blame for that falls directly onto Holder’s narrow shoulders.  Instead of cooperating with Issa’s probe, Holder sent a letter last Friday practically daring Issa to subpoena the documents and his aides.  Issa returned fire yesterday with a detailed broadside listing all of the mischaracterizations and misrepresentations given by Holder and the DoJ, ending with the admonition that Holder “own[ s] Fast and Furious” no matter how much he tries to duck the consequences...

More @ HotAir...
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #210 on: October 11, 2011, 11:12:06 AM »

The shredder's smokin',  the burn bag's burnin', and the delete button's goin' by Pavlov's rat.


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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #211 on: October 11, 2011, 11:13:17 AM »
Hopefully...rail, tar & feathers soon to follow!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #212 on: October 11, 2011, 11:27:32 AM »
Hopefully...rail, tar & feathers soon to follow!

To the highest level.


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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #213 on: October 11, 2011, 11:53:37 AM »
Now, now, now; let's not be hasty.  According to some, Operation Wide Receiver under Gonzales is equally culpable you know::)
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

charlesoakwood

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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #214 on: October 11, 2011, 12:16:38 PM »


Wide receiver?


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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #215 on: October 11, 2011, 01:10:31 PM »
Here:

Quote
Meanwhile, confidential sources have told The Outdoor Wire about Operation Wide Receiver, another ATF/Justice Department investigation gone bad.

Mounted approximately five years ago out of the Tucson office, Wide Receiver may have actually been the template used -with equally inept results- by the now-infamous Phoenix operations.

In Operation Wide Receiver, Tucson agents allowed the sales of more than 500 firearms to known straw purchasers. Like Gunrunner/Fast and Furious, the operation apparently backfired.

Some firearms in Wide Receive were equipped with RFID tracking devices. In Wide Receiver, it seems the illegal purchasers seemed more than slightly knowledgeable of the way the ATF and how to take their aerial and electronic tracking procedures down.

Knowing the time aloft numbers for virtually all planes used in government surveillance, the buyers had a simple method of getting their purchases across the border undetected. They simply drove four-hour loops around the area.

As surveillance planes were forced to return to base for re-fueling, the smugglers simply turned and sprinted their cargo across the border.

The RFID tags also turned out to be problematic.

Rather than making large enough holes for the tags to be laid out inside weapons, agents force-fit them into the rifles.

That cramming caused the antennae to be folded, reducing the effective range of the tags. And an already short battery life (36-48 hours maximum) meant that should purchasers allow the firearms to sit, the tracking devices eliminated themselves.

This sounds like something out of "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight" but it's not.

To date, Wide Receiver hasn't really amounted to much in the way of interdiction, enforcement or prosecution, despite the huge amounts of surveillance video and audio evidence collected and the millions of dollars expended.

To date, sources tell us the only charges filed in the ongoing investigation are for falsifying Form 4473s. Not much of a return on an investigation that consumed millions of dollars in man-hours and money and placed the lives of law-abiding firearms dealers and their families in jeopardy.

Additionally, we have seen documents proving the Justice Department is not only aware of Wide Receiver, they're having problems with material witnesses and confidential informants who are concerned about the overall investigation and their personal safety.

I don't the guy and I'm not familiar with his website.  What I suspect is this ^^ is what the left is ramping up to use to deflect from F&F in the usual "Bush did it too" deflection because the attention directed to this came from a leftist.
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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #216 on: October 11, 2011, 01:41:18 PM »
The "This is just like Wide Receiver" defense has gotten a pretty thorough thrashing since it was tried, even in the MSM. I don't think that dog'll hunt. It was coordinated with the Mexican government. Guns were tracked. Border patrol agents didn't die.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #217 on: October 11, 2011, 01:46:04 PM »
The "This is just like Wide Receiver" defense has gotten a pretty thorough thrashing since it was tried, even in the MSM. I don't think that dog'll hunt. It was coordinated with the Mexican government. Guns were tracked. Border patrol agents didn't die.

Yes, border agents didn't die or we'd certainly have heard.  Tell me more, please.  Some of us must have missed the MSM's trashing coverage, at least I did.
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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #218 on: October 11, 2011, 02:01:23 PM »
The "This is just like Wide Receiver" defense has gotten a pretty thorough thrashing since it was tried, even in the MSM. I don't think that dog'll hunt. It was coordinated with the Mexican government. Guns were tracked. Border patrol agents didn't die.

Yes, border agents didn't die or we'd certainly have heard.  Tell me more, please.  Some of us must have missed the MSM's trashing coverage, at least I did.

Here's some key differences I found at Human Events...

1. Wide Receiver was less than one-quarter the size of Fast and Furious, involving about 500 guns.  About 450 guns made it across the border into Mexico.  Not only was Fast and Furious much larger, but it was only one of several gun walking operations launched by the Obama Administration.  In fact, intrepid CBS reporter Sharyl Attkisson says she has “found allegations of gun walking in at least 10 cities in five states.”

2. Unlike the Obama Administration programs, there actually was a serious attempt made to track the Wide Receiver weapons.  Some of them were fitted with radio tracking devices.  The cartel gun buyers figured out how to defeat the tracking system by driving around in circles, until the tracking planes ran out of fuel and were forced to return to base.  Also, some of the tracking devices were damaged when ATF agents improperly inserted them into the guns.

By contrast, one of the signature features of Obama gun walking is that absolutely no effort to track the guns was ever in place.  ATF agents have testified they were expressly ordered to stand down when they tried to follow the cartel straw purchasers.  Whatever mistakes were made in Operation Wide Receiver, there’s no way to argue that Operation Fast and Furious was not much worse… because they should have learned from what happened in Wide Receiver.

3. And by “they” I mean “Special Agent In Charge Bill Newell.”  That’s right – the same Phoenix ATF supervisor who became famous during the investigation of Fast and Furious was involved with Operation Wide Receiver.  He’s also the ATF agent that originally told Congress that he mentioned gun walking in a roundabout way to his old buddy Kevin O’Reilly of the White House national security staff, who he communicates with maybe three or four times a year… only to be exposed as a liar when the same document dump that put AG Holder in jeopardy of perjury charges revealed a constant stream of emails between Newell and O’Reilly, lasting over a month. 

4. Operation Wide Receiver was, by all accounts, shut down after its weapons dropped off the grid, and the ATF realized it had blundered.  Operation Fast and Furious was only shut down because two of its weapons were discovered at the scene of U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry’s murder.  According to congressional testimony, the Terry shooting - along with the mistaken suspicion that Tucson mass murderer Jared Loughner might have been packing a Fast and Furious gun – panicked top ATF brass into halting its gun walking operations.

5. The Obama Justice Department cobbled together significant inter-agency co-operation for its huge gun walking programs.  As Kurt Hofmann of the Gun Rights Examiner notes, “At this point, we don’t seem to have any evidence that earlier ‘gunwalking’ involved the FBI, the DEA, DHS, the State Department, the IRS, and even the White House Security Council.”

6. And, of course, there was no massive cover-up of Wide Receiver.  No senior Administration officials committed perjury to distance themselves from it.  The ATF was not exactly advertising the existence of the operation, or its unhappy conclusion, but that’s very different from the thick stone wall Obama and his people tried to build around their far larger and deadlier operations.

In fact, a confidential informant named Mike Detty, who participated in Wide Receiver as a gun dealer, specifically told David Codrea of the Gun Rights Examiner that the Bush Administration was not involved in the earlier gun walking program...

...In summary, Operation Wide Receiver was a small-scale botched sting operation, in which a foolish, but faintly plausible, plan to track straw gun buyers to their criminal customers went terribly wrong.  The Obama Administration used this disaster as a template, radically increased its scale, and turned it into something else altogether.

Far from letting the Obama Administration “off the hook” because “Bush did it too,” an understanding of the full Operation Wide Receiver story makes the Obama scandal worse.

"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #219 on: October 11, 2011, 02:10:33 PM »
Thanks, IDP.  What you've written here about the RFID chips was included in what I'd posted; much of the rest I didn't know.  You write that Human Events reported on it, and I know Attkisson was making the rounds until lately, but I'm concerned that Gun Rights Examiner is not quite the MSM and therefore the information was not widely enough disseminated for the left to not nevertheless blur the extreme differences between the two many operations.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"