Author Topic: More copper thievery  (Read 5694 times)

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Offline michelleo

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More copper thievery
« on: June 08, 2011, 12:22:16 PM »
 In our area we've had a rash of thefts in public parks and private residences of the copper bell backflow devices on sprinkler systems as well as sprinkler heads and brass vases found in cemetaries holding flowers on grave sites.  The new normal.

All it takes is a daily perusing of drudge to see the country is going to crap.  We're already starting to see marauding mobs, copper thievery everywhere, even 4 yr olds on school buses aren't safe.  How long before we start to see homemade Mad Max tanks roaming our streets?!

Offline rickl

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2011, 10:07:21 PM »
I saw a headline on Drudge the other day about a train derailing because thieves stole the steel rails off the track.  I didn't read the article so I don't know where that happened.

Welcome to the Third World.  Before long we'll no longer have electricity because the scavengers will have ripped the wires out of our houses to sell for scrap.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
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Offline Pandora

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2011, 11:31:26 PM »
The Obama/Soros plan comes together, the sonsabtches.  True statement:  Obama is here to see over our decline.  Well, he and they can miss my azz.

Mine might be one of the first Mad Max tanks if I think that's what we'll need.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline trapeze

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2011, 11:33:55 PM »
I saw a headline on Drudge the other day about a train derailing because thieves stole the steel rails off the track.  I didn't read the article so I don't know where that happened.

Welcome to the Third World.  Before long we'll no longer have electricity because the scavengers will have ripped the wires out of our houses to sell for scrap.

The easiest residential target for copper thieves are air conditioners. You go to work and when you come home there is nothing left but a concrete pad where the air conditioner used to be. The thieves back a truck up to the unit, turn off the electricity to it and then use bolt cutters on the copper tubing and power line. Then they hoist it into the truck bed for a quick ride to the nearest empty lot. Once there they rip the thing apart - discarding the steel and keeping the copper and aluminum coil that wraps around it. Huge environmental mess: Loss of refrigerant (if you think that's a big deal) and a small pool of oil on the ground. Plus the steel and the compressor.

I can't figure on anyone taking steel, though. The price of steel is crappy. You have to be able to literally steal tons of steel to get anything for it. If you have to drive any distance at all to get rid of it, you use up your profit in gasoline. But thieves are stupid so who knows?

The big ticket metals are copper, aluminum and brass. Most are easily stolen. Especially from construction sites (there aren't many of those but they do still exist)...wiring, pipe and plumbing fixtures. Door hardware is mostly brass but since these are usually locked after installation it's harder to steal them.

Obamanomics. Gotta love it.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2011, 11:45:34 PM »
Who's buying stolen copper?
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline trapeze

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2011, 01:14:29 AM »
Who's buying stolen copper?

Scrap metal brokers do not (in most cases) ask where it comes from. After it's in their hands for a few hours it is usually untraceable. In some cases they will ask for some kind of written "proof" of origin. This can be just about any hand written document (receipt) that supposedly was issued to the thief by the person he obtained the metal from. It's also a handy fake document to have on hand if the thief is pulled over by law enforcement on the way to the scrap metal broker.

Legitimate scrap metal sellers will purchase their goods from electricians, plumbers, locksmiths and heating and air-conditioning companies (to name the most common sources) before selling it to a broker. Thieves will get their stuff from any available source (as noted in previous post).

In the past, metal thieves have tended to be drug addicts who are looking for a cheap and (relatively easy) way to score more drugs. Ripping the guts out of construction sites after hours and on weekends is easier and safer than armed robbery or burglary. Today, though, the wonders of Obamanomics is making everyday life begin to resemble Les Miserables and desperate people resort to unscrupulous methods to make ends meet. Imagine how crazy things will get if and when unemployment rises further and/or a depression sets in.

A bit of anecdotal history: I remember the gas shortages of the late 1970's being particularly bad for thievery. Gasoline prices had risen to well over 250% since the previous decade and had done so inside of only a year or two (thanks President Carter!). This was a big financial shock to a lot of people and some of them began to do strange and unusual things. Drive offs, where someone would fill their tank, drop the nozzle on the ground and speed off without paying, were the most common. Siphoning was pretty common, too. I remember one story where a fairly sophisticated van would pull up over the fill caps for the underground tanks, lower a hose into them from a trap door in the van and then pump the gas up into 55 gallon drums. Even the people who ran gas stations would steal gas by "rounding." Rounding was a scheme where the attendant would fill his own tank at the end of the business day by taking anywhere from a half a gallon to nine tenths of a gallon from each pump. This was possible because of the way that the old gas pumps recorded the gas. Each pump had a (mechanical) digital readout much like the odometer in cars that recorded the total gas used. The attendant would have to take a reading on it at the end of the day. Usually they would only be required to record to the nearest gallon but the meter measured down to the tenth of a gallon. So, if the meter read 0 tenths the attendant could pump out 9 more tenths of a gallon and still record the same (whole) number. Particularly greedy attendants would shut pumps off during the day as soon as they saw a zero tenths reading. Depending on the number of pumps at the station a rounding thief could pull in anywhere between 10 or 20 gallons of gas. Then there were the attendants who took advantage of the odd/even day rationing of the Carter years. During those miserable times you could only purchase gas for your car if your license plate matched the calendar day number. On top of that gas stations had quotas that limited the total number of gallons they could sell each day. A rationing thief would shut down his station early, leaving several hundred gallons for him to sell to friends and special customers. The rationing thief would charge a few extra bucks per person (under the table) to fill cars "by appointment." A lot of people would gladly pay the bribe to avoid the nuisance of the long lines during the odd/even day rationing period.

Ahh, the Carter years. What bliss.





A gas station would open and immediately a line would form. The quota would usually be something like three or four thousand gallons. That would mean 150 to 200 cars could fill up at 20 gallons a tank. So one of the attendants would begin to walk down the line of cars counting them off until they thought they had enough to make the quota and then they would hang a sign on the rear of the last car in their count that read, "LAST CAR." Fist fights would sometimes break out at the pumps and in the lines, especially when people would try to cut in line. It was just like the Soviet Union except it was America.





People just couldn't wait to vote for Reagan.

And that's the big problem for so many libs today (one in particular whose name we don't mention because he's such an ass, for example), they are just too young to remember the misery of the Carter years. Double digit inflation, ridiculously high priced gasoline, crazy mortgage rates, super high unemployment, the American hostages held in Iran, etc.

Remember the Misery Index?

It was the sum of the unemployment rate and the rate of inflation.

Quote
During the Presidential campaign of 1976, Democratic candidate Jimmy Carter made frequent references to the Misery Index, which by the summer of 1976 was at 13.57%. Carter stated that no man responsible for giving a country a misery index that high had a right to even ask to be President. Carter won the 1976 election. However, by 1980, when President Carter was running for re-election against Ronald Reagan, the Misery Index had reached an all-time high of 21.98%. Carter lost the election to Reagan.

Our current misery index is just over 12% but that is only because of the Fed doing everything it can to keep inflation at bay. They won't be able to hold it back too much longer. Then the baby libs will start squealing because they have never known such a thing in their lifetimes.

Libs who are forty and younger have never known pain such as was experienced by adults during the Carter years. That's because they were either in diapers or not born yet. They have grown up and reached adulthood during the post Reagan golden age of prosperity. Well, two Bushes, a Clinton and an Obama have finally killed that golden egg laying goose and we are about to be truly in the sh*ts. Another term for President Dumbass will push us over the edge and that will be that. It will be a tough enough job for anyone to fix the mess we are in now. Only a true fiscal conservative has a chance to set things back to the way they need to be. And even then, the young will be paying for it forever.

BONUS!!!

Three select songs from The Kinks "Low Budget" album. This outstanding album came out in 1979 and was a pretty obvious statement about life during the Carter years. "A Gallon Of Gas" compared the difficulty (and expense) of obtaining a full tank to buying drugs:

A Gallon Of Gas

The title song, "Low Budget" reflected the reality of high inflation, the scarcity of decent jobs and having to make do with less:

The kinks low budget

Finally, "Catch Me Now I'm Falling" about America's impotence on the national stage under Carter:

The Kinks - Catch Me Now I'm Falling

This is a great album with, sadly, historical importance and relevance to today's administration.

« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 02:23:36 AM by trapeze »
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Pandora

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2011, 01:39:49 AM »
People are driving off without paying here and have been for a little while now.  If the attendant doesn't know you, you pay first, then pump.  Also, there have been reports of what trap has stated; vans with floor-doors pulling over the tank-covers and filling on-board 55 gallon drums.

I imagine it will get worse, much worse, before long.  The thefts mostly will not be paper money, they'll be commodities; grocery trucks, gas and propane tankers and such being hijacked.

Watch yourselves while traversing parking lots with full grocery carts and while loading into vehicles and when leaving drug and liquor stores.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2011, 01:56:53 AM »
Yep, the times they are a changin'

Liberalism always brings out the best in people. Every. Single. Time.

In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

charlesoakwood

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2011, 02:36:22 AM »

Include in that list of Carter favorites the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and the breaking of our security treaty with them.  Instead of honoring the treaty and assisting them he chose the firm stance of boycotting the Olympics in protest. grrRuff


Offline trapeze

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2011, 03:05:36 AM »

Include in that list of Carter favorites the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and the breaking of our security treaty with them.  Instead of honoring the treaty and assisting them he chose the firm stance of boycotting the Olympics in protest. grrRuff



Yeah, there was a lot of stuff that Carter sacrificed on his own personal alter of "human rights."

In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2011, 06:55:00 AM »
I remember when you were limited to ten gallons per fill-up. One enterprising "entrepreneur" (not a store employee) would walk down the line, collecting the money from the customers, and then take off.
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Offline rickl

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2011, 07:05:05 AM »
I've heard about air conditioner theft, and while I've never heard of it happening in my area I figure it's only a matter of time.

I've thought about having a small chain link fence installed around my outdoor unit.  I imagine it would have to have a gate on one side for service or replacement.  Would that be enough to protect it, or could thieves lift it out vertically? 
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Offline AlanS

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2011, 10:20:13 AM »
Trap, as much as I hate Carter and despised the Carter years), I'm going to have to disagree with you. The long lines and no gas were because of the Arab oil embargo in '73. During Carter, we had gas, it just cost out the wazoo.

The reason I remember it so well, was my dad had a gas station at the time. The oil embargo (along with a couple other factors) pretty much ran him into bankruptcy from which he never recovered.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 11:24:05 AM by AlanS »
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2011, 03:26:18 PM »
I remember during the Carter years one of my babysitters telling me that her husband got beat up one night when he happen to go out to his car for something one night and discovered a guy siphoning the gas out of his work truck.


My mom claims she never waited in a line for gas back then...she says she went after everyone was at work. I don't remember my folks having a problem getting gas. But I do remember them hating Carter with a vengence.


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Offline trapeze

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2011, 03:39:43 PM »
Trap, as much as I hate Carter and despised the Carter years), I'm going to have to disagree with you. The long lines and no gas were because of the Arab oil embargo in '73. During Carter, we had gas, it just cost out the wazoo.

The reason I remember it so well, was my dad had a gas station at the time. The oil embargo (along with a couple other factors) pretty much ran him into bankruptcy from which he never recovered.

The reason that I remember it so well is that it happened just as I described in Houston. Perhaps some parts of the country were immune but the pics that I posted all came from a search for "1979 Energy Crisis" And that first pic shows the rear end of a 1976 Datsun pickup.

Now, to be fair, I didn't check images for the 1973 Energy Crisis but I did just now and, yes, some of them are the same but the 76 Datsun pickup pic has to be from 1979. Also if you go to the linked article at the beginning of my long ass post you will find this:

Quote
The Jimmy Carter administration began a phased deregulation of oil prices on April 5, 1979, when the average price of crude oil was US$15.85 per barrel (42 US gallons). Over the next 12 months the price of crude oil rose to $39.50 per barrel (its all time highest real price until March 7, 2008.)[8] Deregulating domestic oil price controls allowed domestic U.S. oil output to rise sharply from the large Prudhoe Bay fields, while oil imports fell sharply. Hence, long lines appeared at gas stations, as they had six years earlier during the 1973 oil crisis.

All I can say is that I was in Houston in 1979 and we had odd/even days with quotas and long ass lines.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

charlesoakwood

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2011, 03:43:24 PM »

The price almost doubled.
There was also every other day based on you license plate.  I'm certain of those two things.
I worked night shift and by virtue of that and a 30 gallon tank managed to keep topped off.

 

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2011, 08:45:18 PM »
On the copper thefts: I had heard that copper prices had tanked due to the construction business being depressed. If they were only getting like .02 on the dollar before, I wonder what they're getting now?

On the gas crisis, I remember it well. We had lots of shortages. One way around it for me and a few enterprising individuals was to buy gas from the marina and transfer it to our cars. Since my summer job was fuel jockey at the marina it was a perfect fit  ;D

Offline John Florida

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2011, 09:09:25 PM »
 I was selling Buick and Opels in 73. People were trading big cars in for pennies on the dollar and paying over list for Opels. It was a disgrace.I had only been in the business for 9 months and the place went from 11 salesmen down to 3 I was one of them.

  I was only married 10 months then and was scared to death because Nan was pregnant with our first.I stayed at work for every hour the place was open which was 9AM till 9 PM Mon/Fri and 9 Am to 6 PM for months and months to support them.

 
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Offline Libertas

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2011, 07:47:30 AM »
I remember gas lines, but I recall that it was fairly easy to predict the best times to go to certain stations, once you knew their schedule for topping off their underground tanks.  The few I frequented the most had tankers top them off at night, so if I got there right away in the morning when they opened up (most stations were not 24/7 back in the day!) I could top off without much waiting, if at all.  And making sure all your gas cans were topped off in case you ran low before getting to a station was done.  I remember more than one occassion where I was on fumes and needed a couple gallons out of the can to make it!  We had one neighborhood station where we knew an employee who told us when their tanker came in, so we could get cars up there, that helped too.  And people learned a little about logistics too, no back and forth stuff, errands were scheduled like bus runs so there was not any wasted fuel.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: More copper thievery
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2011, 09:00:10 AM »
WRBL story from this week on a church which had its air conditioners stripped of copper. Several hundred bucks worth of copper for many thousands of dollars of damage.

Quote
“Even if insurance does cover it, the deductible takes away a lot of food and stuff that we could give to the people in the community, so it devastates a congregation like us,” said Reverend Harper.

Reverend Harper said if insurance does cover the damage, it looks like the church would still have to pay a four to $5,000 deductible.

In Shreveport, LA the authorities made arrests this week...

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Webster sheriff’s investigators have arrested four more people in connection with a multi-parish copper theft ring targeting oil and gas locations.



The individual thefts, which number in the hundreds, total more than $315,000 in stolen copper wire. Shane Nipper, who confessed his involvement to authorities, reportedly sold the copper for scrap and netted $30,000 to $40,000.

Comprehensive NYTs article from February:

Quote
From Hawaii to Florida, thieves have electrocuted themselves and caused electrical and telephone failures and street light blackouts. Many municipalities, which have been hard hit by budget deficits, have been unable to afford repairs.

Highways in some states have remained darkened for months. In California, where copper wire theft appears to be most rampant, according to law enforcement officials, Little League baseball fields have gone dark because the wiring was stolen from the lights.




In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.