Author Topic: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating  (Read 6746 times)

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Online IronDioPriest

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S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« on: August 05, 2011, 07:56:24 PM »
HT: HotAir...

Breaking: S&P downgrades U.S. to AA+; Update: S&P statement added

    We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and will remain a contentious and fitful process. We also believe that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration agreed to this week falls short of the amount that we believe is necessary to stabilize the general government debt burden by the middle of the decade…

    The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy. Despite this year’s wide-ranging debate, in our view, the differences between political parties have proven to be extraordinarily difficult to bridge, and, as we see it, the resulting agreement fell well short of the comprehensive fiscal consolidation program that some proponents had envisaged until quite recently. Republicans and Democrats have only been able to agree to relatively modest savings on discretionary spending while delegating to the Select Committee decisions on more comprehensive measures. It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options. In addition, the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability…

    When comparing the U.S. to sovereigns with ‘AAA’ long-term ratings that we view as relevant peers–Canada, France, Germany, and the U.K.–we also observe, based on our base case scenarios for each, that the trajectory of the U.S.’s net public debt is diverging from the others. Including the U.S., we estimate that these five sovereigns will have net general government debt to GDP ratios this year ranging from 34% (Canada) to 80% (the U.K.), with the U.S. debt burden at 74%. By 2015, we project that their net public debt to GDP ratios will range between 30% (lowest, Canada) and 83% (highest, France), with the U.S. debt burden at 79%. However, in contrast with the U.S., we project that the net public debt burdens of these other sovereigns will begin to decline, either before or by 2015.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 08:00:52 PM by IronDioPriest »
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline rickl

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2011, 08:36:15 PM »
I'm stunned.   ::falldownshocked::

OK, not really.
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Offline warpmine

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2011, 09:18:50 PM »
I never could understand why the country had such a great bond rating to begin with considering that political hacks and their accounting tricks until I realized that these agencies were in fact created by the government for the government to rate treasury notes.

Personlaaly and I think many here will agree, we've already crossed  the terminator into banana republic. Just as with the U-3 employment and the inflation numbers being nothing but empty shells the public falls for the misinformation not realizing just how badly the governmet has skewed what was supposed to be economic indicators. ::bashing::
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charlesoakwood

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2011, 10:22:29 PM »

The political narrative has not been writ.
Will the Pubbies walk out on those granite steps and seize it?
NO!

I can see them reaching for their ankles right now.

Online ToddF

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2011, 06:03:06 AM »
To borrow a post from another thread...

Double triple ugh.


Winning the future.

Online IronDioPriest

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(Video) Maher & former Obama adviser Romer think S&P downgrade is a hoot.
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2011, 09:15:43 AM »
video linked @ gatewaypundit....

Former Obama Economic Adviser Gets Chuckle Out of S&P Downgrade: “We’re F**ked” (Video)

Former Obama economic adviser Christina Romer got a chuckle out of the news yesterday that the US credit rating was downgraded for the first time in over a century. She told Bill Maher, “We’re f*cked.” Then they laughed.
[blockquote]BILL MAHER, HOST: So, excuse my language, but we used to do a segment on this show called “How F—ked Are We?”

MAHER: …This, just before we went on the air they said our rating got downgraded.

CHRISTINA ROMER, FORMER CHAIR OF THE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: So, pretty darned f—ked.

[Laughter and applause]

MAHER: Ooh.

ROMER: I’ve been hanging around Tim Geithner too long.[/blockquote]
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2011, 10:33:08 AM »
Last night I was watching a goofy horror movie called "House II". It was something that I had recalled from years and years ago so I downloaded it and viewed it. What I did not recall was that bill maher had a role in it. He played a slimy record producer bent on seducing the wife of the main character.

He was entirely forgettable in his role and apparently decided that life imitating "art" was good enough for him.

I imagine that he has enough money that he will escape the pain for a few months.

I wish I could be there when his infrastructure fails around him.

Offline radioman

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2011, 10:52:02 AM »
If only the tea partiers would have allowed the repubs to agree to the grand bargain, we wud not be in this mess.  ::evil::
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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2011, 12:06:53 PM »
If only the tea partiers would have allowed the repubs to agree to the grand bargain, we wud not be in this mess.  ::evil::

Exactly what I've been hearing/reading in certain circles:  those hostage-taking, extreeeeemist TEA Party people have ... have ... executed a coup (yeah! that's the ticket!) on our economy and government.

You cannot explain to stoopit; you can only marginalize it.
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charlesoakwood

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2011, 12:48:07 PM »

Seems every talking head on the tube is quoting S&P as saying "they should have made a deal" the talking heads lie.  S&P is saying you need to balance the budget and not only are you not doing that you are exacerbating the problem and their is no appearance of resolution.

So, the herd continues it's stampede to the cliff.


Online Pandora

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2011, 01:12:02 PM »
"It's the TEA Party's fault!" according to this post, written elsewhere.

Quote
There is blame for both sides in accumulating the debt but it was the Tea Party that caused the brinkmanship on raising the ceiling.  Because the Republicans wouldn't include revenues in the solution we couldn't get to the $4 billion cut in the deficit that would have prevented the downgrade.  Obama offered a bipartisan plan to do that and Boehner turned it down.  It included cuts in social security and medicare, not just stopping tax loopholes and subsidies.  If you don't believe me, see what the person who was behind the downgrade at AS&P said.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/05/video-man-behind-downgrade-decision/

COOPER: What could the United States have done to have avoided this?
 
CHAMBERS: Well, I think it could have done a few things. The first thing it could have done is to have raised the debt ceiling in a timely matter, so that much of this debate had been avoided to begin with, as it had done 60 or 70 times since 1960 without much debate. So that's point number one. And point number two is it could have come up with a fiscal plan similar, for example, to the Bowles-Simpson commission, which was bipartisan. Although it did not have a supermajority vote, it did have a majority vote and came up with a number of sensible recommendations. ??You could envision other recommendations, but that would have been a start.
...
I think that there's plenty of blame to go around. ??This is a problem that's been a long time in the making, well over this administration and the prior administration. It's a matter of the medium- and long-term budget position of the United States that needs to be brought under control, not the immediate fiscal position. It's one that centers on entitlements and it's entitlement reform or having matching revenues to pay for those entitlements that's at the crux of the matter.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/05/video-man-behind-downgrade-decision/

Here's what I find interestingly flabbergasting:  the TEA Party and fiscal conservatives have been saying for some time government needs to be made smaller - the whole point behind the TEA Party is Taxed Enough Already -- and that SS/Medicare/Medicaid needs to go away in a manner that doesn't kill seniors.

For decades, Democrats have been scaring seniors with the idea that "Republicans want to take away your Social Security", but as they said it from one side of their mouths, the other side was passing legislation to tax "benefits" and otherwise whittle them away.

It seems like just yesterday, the Left was screaming about Paul Ryan's "Roadmap" pushing grandma off the cliff, when those 55 and older would not have been adversely affected AT ALL.

Now, NOW, where's the first place they want cuts?  SS and Medicare - notice nothing about Medicaid, that would also cut into their base; nothing about alllll the other alphabet agencies (I'd dearly love to personally hand out pink slips to every single person working at the EPA); nothing about foreign aid; nothing about grants and other give-aways.

And I'll bet you dollars to donuts come election time, they will AGAIN paint the Republicans and the TEA Party as complicit in gutting SS/Medicare.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2011, 01:24:24 PM »
The pass a trillion dollar slush-fund stimulus that did nothing, and then ObamaCare, adding trillions to the deficit. then we hit the debt ceiling and expect that even though those programs were passed with no new tax revenue to underpin them, that the emergency of the debt-ceiling and default should compel government to raise taxes to cover it.

And then they want to blame the f**king Tea Party?

f**k them. Come and get some, bastards.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 01:41:40 PM »
"It's the TEA Party's fault!" according to this post, written elsewhere.

Quote
There is blame for both sides in accumulating the debt but it was the Tea Party that caused the brinkmanship on raising the ceiling.  Because the Republicans wouldn't include revenues in the solution we couldn't get to the $4 billion cut in the deficit that would have prevented the downgrade.  Obama offered a bipartisan plan to do that and Boehner turned it down.  It included cuts in social security and medicare, not just stopping tax loopholes and subsidies.  If you don't believe me, see what the person who was behind the downgrade at AS&P said.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/05/video-man-behind-downgrade-decision/

COOPER: What could the United States have done to have avoided this?
 
CHAMBERS: Well, I think it could have done a few things. The first thing it could have done is to have raised the debt ceiling in a timely matter, so that much of this debate had been avoided to begin with, as it had done 60 or 70 times since 1960 without much debate. So that's point number one. And point number two is it could have come up with a fiscal plan similar, for example, to the Bowles-Simpson commission, which was bipartisan. Although it did not have a supermajority vote, it did have a majority vote and came up with a number of sensible recommendations. ??You could envision other recommendations, but that would have been a start.
...
I think that there's plenty of blame to go around. ??This is a problem that's been a long time in the making, well over this administration and the prior administration. It's a matter of the medium- and long-term budget position of the United States that needs to be brought under control, not the immediate fiscal position. It's one that centers on entitlements and it's entitlement reform or having matching revenues to pay for those entitlements that's at the crux of the matter.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/05/video-man-behind-downgrade-decision/

Here's what I find interestingly flabbergasting:  the TEA Party and fiscal conservatives have been saying for some time government needs to be made smaller - the whole point behind the TEA Party is Taxed Enough Already -- and that SS/Medicare/Medicaid needs to go away in a manner that doesn't kill seniors.

For decades, Democrats have been scaring seniors with the idea that "Republicans want to take away your Social Security", but as they said it from one side of their mouths, the other side was passing legislation to tax "benefits" and otherwise whittle them away.

It seems like just yesterday, the Left was screaming about Paul Ryan's "Roadmap" pushing grandma off the cliff, when those 55 and older would not have been adversely affected AT ALL.

Now, NOW, where's the first place they want cuts?  SS and Medicare - notice nothing about Medicaid, that would also cut into their base; nothing about alllll the other alphabet agencies (I'd dearly love to personally hand out pink slips to every single person working at the EPA); nothing about foreign aid; nothing about grants and other give-aways.

And I'll bet you dollars to donuts come election time, they will AGAIN paint the Republicans and the TEA Party as complicit in gutting SS/Medicare.

Spot On.

It will be time to fight disinformation with information.   AARP is going to fight to remain fully funded.



Offline Sectionhand

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2011, 02:13:07 PM »

Seems every talking head on the tube is quoting S&P as saying "they should have made a deal" the talking heads lie.  S&P is saying you need to balance the budget and not only are you not doing that you are exacerbating the problem and their is no appearance of resolution.

So, the herd continues it's stampede to the cliff.



The really funny question being asked by every news outlet is ; "Why did S&P do this ?"  Well fer Chrast's Sake ! Where the hell have these people been ? The "whys" have been staring us in the face for several fvcking years !
It was only a matter of time . Sometimes the news media's even dumber than Congress .

charlesoakwood

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2011, 04:41:06 PM »

“The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that.
So there is zero probability of default”

                                                               said [Alan] Greenspan on NBC’s Meet the Press


Online Pandora

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2011, 05:24:43 PM »

“The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that.
So there is zero probability of default”

                                                               said [Alan] Greenspan on NBC’s Meet the Press



Oy.  Another financial genius.
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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2011, 07:12:40 PM »
The emerging tactic from the Left - blaming this on the Tea Party - is unconscionable; evil. I hate these Leftist bastards with a passion that will sooner or later be unquenchable.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2011, 07:21:21 PM »
I hate when I am right.  This was a foregone conclusion.  Too bad all the wrong targets will be blamed and all the right ones shouted down by Keynesian fools who got us into this mess.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2011, 10:20:32 PM »

Link            

Germany still fails to understand the logic of monetary union: that (Teutonic) surplus states have a duty to boost demand in order to offset austerity in (Latin) deficit states until equilibrium is restored. Instead, Berlin is imposing a 1930s Gold Standard formula of deflation decrees through the EU machinery, with the burden of adjustment falling on debtor states.    ::hysterical::

Ambrose Pritchard POS






Offline Libertas

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Re: S & P Downgrades US Credit Rating
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2011, 06:36:06 AM »
Yeah, that is hilarious.

The idea that government can gin up demand and the doctrine of too big to fail need to be expunged from mainstream thought or there is nowhere to go but into global fiscal/financial hell.

And now we're the King of Debtor states...

Don't forget to properly thank a proglodyte for this mess!

 ;)
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.