Author Topic: -Education: A Walk On The Wild Side  (Read 1189 times)

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Offline jpatrickham

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-Education: A Walk On The Wild Side
« on: September 14, 2011, 11:32:38 AM »
Wednesday, 14 September 2011 05:08 Bruce Deitrick Price


Quote
   
"Feeling brave? Got a cast-iron stomach? Not offended by decadence? Well, come with me and we’ll go for a stroll in the dangerous part of town, where society’s bad boys hang out. Yes, I’m talking about education.  

One metaphor works best for this whole disturbing field, and that’s CSI. Imagine a really big crime scene, chaotic and messy, filled with walking wounded, people who can’t read or count, their brains empty, their thoughts incoherent.

What happened here? We need to figure out whodunit and why? A wife stages the death of her husband for the insurance; that’s an easy one. Public education, the crime scene we are entering, has hundreds of major suspects, their deeds spread over many decades, the evidence murky, mostly hidden from view. All we know for dead certain is that millions of Americans have been victims of a crime wave.

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In 1955 Rudolf Flesch wrote a bestseller titled “Why Johnny Can’t Read.” To a large degree, Flesch triggered the reading wars and homeschooling. Good reading is so basic, so necessary for even the most elementary education. And it’s so easy to test; you put a newspaper in front of a child and say, read this. Then you know everything, possibly much more than you want to know. One of the most common scenes in America since 1935 is the illiteracy epiphany. Oh my God, our kid can’t read! Is he brain-damaged? What was our sin?

Flesch explained the whole thing. Nothing complicated. The public schools had stopped using phonics (kids learn the alphabet and the sounds that the letters stand for). Public school officials were forcing children to memorize words as graphic designs, as we memorize the Nike logo, currency symbols, or UN flags. Disciplined children with exceptional memories can possibly read with sight-words. Ordinary kids are destroyed. By fourth grade they might learn only a few hundred sight-words. But not with automaticity. Mostly, such kids just fumble and guess.

All right, so the top educators (i.e., professors of education and superintendents) really goofed. They launched an untested, unproven method, first called Look-say (and many other aliases). At the time you might have concluded all this was an innocent mistake. They meant well. But after Flesch explained the misadventure in 150 lucid pages and everyone knew the score, an odd thing happened. The Education Establishment went to the mattresses for Whole Word. According to them, Flesch was a crazed malcontent, a rat. Our elite educators (at Harvard's Graduate School of Education and such places) were going to make kids learn to read sight-words or die trying. Not the educators. It was the kids who would die trying."


http://www.rightsidenews.com/2011091414493/life-and-science/health-and-education/education-a-walk-on-the-wild-side.html?

A Walk On The Wild Side ::guitar::
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 11:37:36 AM by jpatrickham »

Online Pandora

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Re: -Education: A Walk On The Wild Side
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2011, 05:17:22 PM »
The issue of the education establishment not teaching kids to read is one of my hot buttons.

The kid doesn't learn his letters and the sounds made both singly and in combinations and that kid will not be able to sound out/figure out any word he hasn't learned by sight.  A couple of generations have already been ruined by this deliberate social-engineering scheme; not only do they not know how to read and pronounce words, too many don't want to know.

 ::gaah::    ::angry::
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Offline jpatrickham

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Re: -Education: A Walk On The Wild Side
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2011, 05:57:21 PM »
Quote from: Pandora link=topic=2900.msg32514#msg 32514 date=1316038642
The issue of the education establishment not teaching kids to read is one of my hot buttons.

The kid doesn't learn his letters and the sounds made both singly and in combinations and that kid will not be able to sound out/figure out any word he hasn't learned by sight.  A couple of generations have already been ruined by this deliberate social-engineering scheme; not only do they not know how to read and pronounce words, too many don't want to know.

 ::gaah::    ::angry::



I remember a time when a Teacher garnered all our respect. To be a Teacher was one who sacrificed themselves for service in helping cultivate young minds. We all wished they could somehow earn a decent wage. Now Teachers are all about there Union affiliation, and just helping themselves. One place for sure, Unions have no place!

Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: -Education: A Walk On The Wild Side
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2011, 12:41:21 AM »
Just heard on the way home from work that 2011 SAT scores are the lowest ever..
Just a headline on the news on the radio

Don't know if it needs further qualification

Offline jpatrickham

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Re: -Education: A Walk On The Wild Side
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2011, 09:46:32 AM »
Maxine Waters is Right: Obama’s Jobs Plan Stinks

By James V. Lacy

Quote
"Of California’s 12.1 percent unemployed, not many of them are teachers. Thanks to their powerful public employee union, teachers here are doing well, pulling down above-average wages and excessive pension rights so generous that taxpayers really cannot afford them. Their clout contributes mightily to our state government’s perpetual debt crisis, itself a huge drag on the economy in general. Of California's unemployed, almost 35 percent are young people in the recent high school graduate age category. Three years into Barrack Obama’s presidency, about half of young black males are unemployed in California. More than 21 percent of all black Californians are unemployed. Where is their hope in Obama’s jobs plan?"


Quote
"The national jobs plan Obama outlined this week is pretty simple: hire more teachers...."


http://www.exposeobama.com/2011/09/15/maxine-waters-is-right-obamas-jobs-plan-stinks/

I truly believe Barack Obama is all about Barack Obama. He is A Political and A Radical Extremist, brought up to be just that. He is about padding his base, Unions, Ethnic Minorities, Political Left Extremists, and even more shocking the U.N. with undeveloped Third World Countries. Ultimate Goal? Who knows, Emperor Of The United Nations. Lets face it, crazier thing has happened, and Barack Obama, isn't who we thought he was.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 09:54:20 AM by jpatrickham »

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: -Education: A Walk On The Wild Side
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2011, 11:18:40 AM »
The issue of the education establishment not teaching kids to read is one of my hot buttons.

The kid doesn't learn his letters and the sounds made both singly and in combinations and that kid will not be able to sound out/figure out any word he hasn't learned by sight.  A couple of generations have already been ruined by this deliberate social-engineering scheme; not only do they not know how to read and pronounce words, too many don't want to know.

 ::gaah::    ::angry::


Most kids can learn to read and at the appropriate time are eager to read.  Unfortunately, kids learning to read seems to be a big mystery to people.  It's really simple but the education establishment makes it really boring and tedious.  I became a good reader not by any effort on behalf of my teachers but because I discovered a world through books.  When I was taught it was some sort of weird combo of whole word and phonics.  Honestly, I didn't get the phonics until I'd discover the joy of books and began to see words had patterns.

Three of my 4 kids were late in picking up the reading and not because I was homeschooling them.  I used an excellent book called Learn to read in 100 Easy Lessons.  !00% phonics.  I think it was a combination of developmentally not being ready and also not being interested in a book when life around them was way more interesting (they weren't confined to an institution for hours on end.  The world was in front of them and way more interesting.  My kids were always popular playmates which I attributed to having active imaginations).

I did the phonics with the 3 at the appropriate age (6-7) and they could parrot back what they were supposed to but for the life of them they were totally uninterested in reading.  I'd buy them the easy readers and they act like they didn't know what "cat" was!  And when I'd finally get them to read the stupid book they'd make no effort to move on.  Fortunately, I only experienced the frustration with my oldest because I did a lot of reading about the subject and came to understand that some children take longer than others.  Confident that they had the basics of phonics I relaxed.  (I'm sure they would have been labeled as slow learners in school.  We did our school lessons verbally for the 1 st three years --they weren't stupid and understood what I taught and could do math).

Anyway, the oldest finally caught on to reading after I gave her a book that captured her imagination. From then on there was no stopping her.  The next one at 8 did the same thing to me. But I just kept handing her books. (We're regulars at the library).  I again bought her the level one, easy readers, and with my prompting she'd get through them.  But it was like pulling teeth. So eventually, I left her alone, satisfied that she had the basics and when she was ready she'd do it.  When she turned 8 she wasn't reading anything; 6 months later she was reading LOTR and undrstanding what she read.  The last one did the same thing, only she dragged it out to age 9 (we'd finished the 100 lessons and I'd say what's this sound and she look at me as if she'd never heard it) And even then I wasn't too sure she was really reading.  But she'd carried books around with her and say she was reading.  But then for some reason at 9 1/2 she decided she wanted to read the Narnia books.  Then Harry Potter. She's always reading now.  I have to tell her to stop reading and go do other things sometimes!  I'm beginning to think that my kids weren't challenged by the age appropriate designated readers and were not interested in reading until they found a reason to be engaged.

Then there's the one we all joke about.  The one daughter I say I have no idea how she learned to read. We didn't do more than 15-20 lessons in  the 100 lessons book and somehow she picked it up on her own around age 7.   I remember when she was 9 or 10 trying to figure out exactly how it happened.  I have no idea.  She's not much of a fiction reader.  She devours all sorts of books--in English, French, Greek and Latin. Because I spent so much time with the others she likes to joke that he mom didn't teach her and she had to do it on her own.

I know so many people who HATE to read. I can't help but think that they were forced into it when they were not developmentally ready and on top of that forced to read some pretty boring stuff.  Which reminds me of how I ticked off a teacher in 6th grade once.  The teacher had set up a reading competition of sorts (I doubt that would be allowed today) and whoever read the most would win and get their name in the school paper.  Two thinks I like--a good competition and reading.  I won naturally but not before aggravating the teacher.  Halfway through the competition she informed me that I was supposed to be reading the books she had in the classroom shelves and not just the books from the library (which were more interesting to me).  So I read all the classroom books and then went back to my preferred library books. I was probably reading at the high school level at that point.

Some of my friends tell me they haven't read a book since they were in school.  My husband hasn't read a book since he graduated decades ago.



 ::rant::

(more than you'd ever want to know but like Pan it sets me off--I have friends who were always so proud their kids were "reading" at 4 or 5 but I discovered the kids had no reading comprehension and to this day they don't read unless they have to. And don't even get me started on grammar!)
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Re: -Education: A Walk On The Wild Side
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2011, 11:47:39 AM »
Quote
Some of my friends tell me they haven't read a book since they were in school.  My husband hasn't read a book since he graduated decades ago.

I feel almost guilty if I indulge in a book that is anything but technical. I have a shelf full of books that I bought intending to read but life keeps find a way to push to the back.

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: -Education: A Walk On The Wild Side
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2011, 11:54:45 AM »
Quote
Some of my friends tell me they haven't read a book since they were in school.  My husband hasn't read a book since he graduated decades ago.

I feel almost guilty if I indulge in a book that is anything but technical. I have a shelf full of books that I bought intending to read but life keeps find a way to push to the back.

But at least you bought some and have good intentions. You do value reading.   I'm talking about people who have no such inclinations.


edit:

rereading what I wrote I see I could have come off as rather arrogant as if I know all about reading.  But in fact I feel exactly the opposite--if I can get my kids to read then anyone can do it.  Schools make it too complicated with their drills and scope and sequence crap.  Teach the basics sounds of letters and give 'em something that engages their imagination and they'll want to read!

And Pan made a good point--many don't even want to know how to read. Much like this stuff I've hear that's speculated about whether kids need cursive, or grammar, or math or learning a foreign language etc etc because they can get computers to do it for them.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 12:19:55 PM by LadyVirginia »
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Offline jpatrickham

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Re: -Education: A Walk On The Wild Side
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2011, 01:31:08 PM »
Quote
Some of my friends tell me they haven't read a book since they were in school.  My husband hasn't read a book since he graduated decades ago.

I feel almost guilty if I indulge in a book that is anything but technical. I have a shelf full of books that I bought intending to read but life keeps find a way to push to the back.

But at least you bought some and have good intentions. You do value reading.   I'm talking about people who have no such inclinations.


edit:

rereading what I wrote I see I could have come off as rather arrogant as if I know all about reading.  But in fact I feel exactly the opposite--if I can get my kids to read then anyone can do it.  Schools make it too complicated with their drills and scope and sequence crap.  Teach the basics sounds of letters and give 'em something that engages their imagination and they'll want to read!

And Pan made a good point--many don't even want to know how to read. Much like this stuff I've hear that's speculated about whether kids need cursive, or grammar, or math or learning a foreign language etc etc because they can get computers to do it for them.


Reading is the best thing I do. I wasn't able to finish College but, I feel I have completed my education with acquired knowledge. I own over a thousand books, and I don't plan on getting a kindle anytime soon. Once Kindles and there competitors have cornered the market, what happens to books? Can't wording be changed, and misquoted? Couldn't Liberals change truth into propaganda? Give me old dirty dusty books, copyrighted, and everything. Just think, how many times has the Bible been interpreted?   

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: -Education: A Walk On The Wild Side
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2011, 01:57:57 PM »
I did go to college.  It was to kill time...and I was a good student...

My education is ongoing, helped along by constantly reading, homeschooling my kids and sending them off to Hillsdale.  I wish I'd had the education my two Hillsdale grads had.


"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

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Re: -Education: A Walk On The Wild Side
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2011, 02:24:27 PM »
Nothing you wrote sounds arrogant to me, LV, just that you know what happened with your own kids.

Gunsmith is a bit dyslexic and didn't really learn how to read, and enjoy it, until his early thirties.  I was reading Ann Rice's books at the time and he got interested in the stories enough to make the effort.  At that time, I mentioned to his sister what he was reading, and she looked at me, shocked, and said "G_________'s reading?!"

The school system not only didn't teach him how to compensate for the dyslexia, they insulted his intelligence (his words) by handing him comic books, and retarded his learning other subjects because they kept yanking him out of class into "special ed" to do so.

I keep hearing "the experts" opine about "minority" children who are not reading or testing at grade level because the material is not "culturally compatible", as if because sloops, yachts and polo ponies are not part of their life experiences, such things introduced through reading books is "oppressive". 

My mother always had a book going, but she never read to me and it didn't matter -- I learned how to read and love it very early. 
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

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Re: -Education: A Walk On The Wild Side
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2011, 02:33:45 PM »
BTW LadyVirginia, I don't see anything arrogant about what you wrote.

It spiked a memory of us kids growing up. There were five of us and we all learned differently. My oldest brother was a genius (~162) with a photographic mind. Acquiring knowledge for him was so easy that he was consequently bored and constantly in trouble. A voracious reader, he left us several bookshelves of paperback books. I like to think that I inherited my love of books from him (unfortunately I didn't inherit his IQ!)

My younger brother and sister, on the other hand, didn't care for books much at all. I never saw either one of them with a book until they were in high school when my brother discovered Tolkin and LOTR. Ever since then he has loved books.

Apparently nothing ever struck that responsive chord in my sister and I don't think that there is a single book in her house.

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: -Education: A Walk On The Wild Side
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2011, 02:36:34 PM »

I keep hearing "the experts" opine about "minority" children who are not reading or testing at grade level because the material is not "culturally compatible", as if because sloops, yachts and polo ponies are not part of their life experiences, such things introduced through reading books is "oppressive". 



I remember reading an article by a so-called expert who gave the example of a question from a test that she believed proved her point.  The question asked the child to pair the word "cup" with an appropriate match.  The answer was saucer.  The author suggested that poor kids don't grow up having tea in cups and saucers and thus wouldn't know the answer.

That was probably 20 years ago but it stuck with me because rather than dumbing down expectations to what the kid might know I wondered why the woman wasn't interested in getting kids up to speed?  And teaching what they need to know to be fully functioning and engaged adults.  But we know the answer to that don't we.  It serves these education bureaubots purposes.  Plus I think they all secretly look down on the population they claim to want to help.


"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."