Topic: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale

[Predator Don]

They will more than likely be a victim of gun violence resulting from fast and furious...... or it could be Bush's fault.

[charlesoakwood]

They will more than likely be a victim of gun violence resulting from fast and furious...... or it could be Bush's fault.

Mexican police would have a typically punitive response to such a statement.
One would be fortunate if he could make that telephone call; he'd be fortunate
if  he could breathe.

[Libertas]

That'd make a damn good t-shirt to sport if around these morons though...like on Cinqo de Mayo.

 

[Glock32]

How about a last minute poll on Obamacare?  Supposed to be announced on Thursday.  I don't have a great feeling about it.  I don't think it will be knocked down in its entirety.  It might even be upheld.  I'm sort of wondering if Roberts is turning into another one of those conservative disappointment appointments.

[Weisshaupt]

How about a last minute poll on Obamacare?  Supposed to be announced on Thursday.  I don't have a great feeling about it.  I don't think it will be knocked down in its entirety.  It might even be upheld.  I'm sort of wondering if Roberts is turning into another one of those conservative disappointment appointments.

I am not hopeful.  I will probably have to be medicated after hearing the announcement. I fully expect American Revolution II to start on Thursday. I will not comply with this bill and I am not going to Jail or having my property confiscated  over a $95 fine.. if I am going to jail its going to be for something that deserves jail time.

[BMG]

@Glock:

I'm of the school of thought that thinks that the mandate is toast but everything else is going to be upheld. The court will effectively be punting the bill back to congress then you see, without vacating it. So they will essentially be giving congress a do-over since the monstrosity can't stand without that accursed mandate.

I think that this will be the way the court goes simply as a face-saving device for them. Politically speaking, if they strike it down, as should be done, their image will be tarnished.

And yeah, everybody knows that that should be the furthest thing from their minds - but this isn't a perfect world and I guess I'm cynical. So that's how I see it going down.

[IronDioPriest]

I just don't see how the bill can stand without the mandate. Without the mandate, the whole thing crumbles. Just at first glance, take the prohibition against insurance companies discriminating against "pre-existing conditions" into consideration. There is no possible way to fund that provision without the mandate. It is the only mechanism in ObamaCare that addresses that specific and massive influx of uninsured people into the system. Take away the mandate and keep the pre-existing condition provision, and there will be a flood of people dropping their insurance, and every insurance company in the country will be bankrupt within the month.

It seems to me that if ObamaCare fails, that failure will reside in the political reality that the mandate was crafted as a substitute for the power to level a tax, at a time when such a massive tax increase was politically untenable. If the funding mechanisms for this bill were built on the federal government's power to tax, I think it may have been unstoppable. But that kind of tax increase was never going to happen. In the end, if this falls, in hindsight it will appear that the best the Leftists could do was cram through something that would give their hardcore base a new "hill" to fight for. They've certainly upped the stakes and clarified the issue, if nothing else.

[LadyVirginia]

I think they'll strike down the mandate but leave enough of the rest of it that the libs will know they're on the right path to universal healthcare.

[Glock32]

Take away the mandate and keep the pre-existing condition provision, and there will be a flood of people dropping their insurance, and every insurance company in the country will be bankrupt within the month.

I believe this is one of their primary goals.  Even with the mandate that is a likelihood, because it is crafted in such a way that many people will pay the fine and then get insurance only when they have a need for it (a pre-existing condition, in other words).  Either path leads to the elimination of private health care, enter Uncle Sugar atop his white horse to the rescue.

[Libertas]

Revolution be coming one way or another...

[IronDioPriest]

Take away the mandate and keep the pre-existing condition provision, and there will be a flood of people dropping their insurance, and every insurance company in the country will be bankrupt within the month.

I believe this is one of their primary goals.  Even with the mandate that is a likelihood, because it is crafted in such a way that many people will pay the fine and then get insurance only when they have a need for it (a pre-existing condition, in other words).  Either path leads to the elimination of private health care, enter Uncle Sugar atop his white horse to the rescue.

Indeed. It follows then that in the event the mandate is stricken down leaving the remainder (or at least a hefty chunk of it) in tact, that the Supreme Court is either wittingly or unwittingly doing the Left's bidding. The health care system will be destroyed, people will be without care, and will be made pliable for demands of new taxation to replace the mandate.

[Weisshaupt]

Indeed. It follows then that in the event the mandate is stricken down leaving the remainder (or at least a hefty chunk of it) in tact, that the Supreme Court is either wittingly or unwittingly doing the Left's bidding. The health care system will be destroyed, people will be without care, and will be made pliable for demands of new taxation to replace the mandate.

Ultimately the States don't have to do a dang thing on Obamacare, immigration or anything else. .  The States will start forming Citizen militias and basically tell the Fed to shove it, just as the Fed just told Az. In the Federalist that was exactly how the Founders felt that States should react to overreach by the Fed- as a rallying point and alternative government for their citizens.   Tell your citizens that until the government removes its edicts to fund Medicare,  starts enforcing immigration law, or whatever that they will NO CO-OPERATE with any Federal Seizure of property for income tax due. Tell your police force that they will not allow them to be tried in a federal court.  Shut down all federal agencies in the State and send the employees packing.  We are reaching the South's "make me" moment. Obama likes to compare himself to Lincoln - and this is why - he WANTS a civil war. He wants to wipe away the constitution or at least leave the Union shattered.   And at this point folks, he has succeeded. I will never live  peacefully with a liberal neighbor, I will never help them with anything and I will be cussing them out to their faces till the day they die.

Az should just announce it will no longer prosecute anyone for the murder of an illegal alien (murder comes under State law)- and claim they have as much right to not enforce certain laws as the President does.  and form a militia under control of the governor.  It would take care of their illegal alien problem over-nignt and ultimately without armed force being used ( National Guard or Military)  Obama can't make them do a damn thing. Like the Catholic Hospitals you just need to keep doing what you were doing, and then make them use the heavy handed tactic of storming buildings and shooting at families to make you stop. Force their hand before they are ready- after this stunt by Obama   there can be no doubt that they are trying to force a conflict. Its time to give them one.  Make them shoot at women and children. Make them explain why Illegals are being hunted by Vigilantes because the Fed refuses to take them into custody and remove them from AZ..

[charlesoakwood]

Didn't Roberts write Az?  He's writing Obama.
There could be a deal.  It could be a bad deal.

[Libertas]

Kennedy wrote AZ as instructed by Roberts.  Roberts is assumed to be writing ObamaCare ruling.

I am inclined to think like Weisshaupt, time to force the weak sisters out and settle these issues more definitively.  Shirking from a confrontation doesn't avoid a confrontation, it merely postpones it and ensures your enemy consolidates deeper and makes your losses greater when the crap does hit the fan.  Pretending otherwise is folly.  Time for a general and widespread rebellion against the federal beast which has destroyed just about every tenent this nation was founded upon.  That may wash with some folk, sure as hell doesn't wash with me.

[Glock32]

At this point I am willing to embrace almost anything that would weaken the Federal government: asteroids, alien invasion (the little green men kind), anything. It is a malignant cancer that has clearly exceeded its mandate. The statists argue that is nonsense, because after all we still have the trappings of a representative republic; that is no defense, because they have simply and cynically wagered that they can get away with consistent overstepping and abuse because each particular thing in itself doesn't immediately effect that many people. If you compress all these oversteps over the past century or so into a single act, you really see the magnitude of it all. But hey, we still get to participate in a rigged game every couple of years so I guess all of this has been done with our consent eh? Nonsense.

To echo Weisshaupt's point, if I were the governor and legislature of Arizona I'd be issuing a few edicts of my own. I would instruct all state agencies to immediately and henceforth stop enforcing ALL federal laws and regulations. The feds depend on the states to perform the actual implementation of a lot of their bullsh*t, so stop doing it for them. Right now I think lots of us are just waiting for some state somewhere to start showing some balls. It would immediately become like Texas attracting defenders from other states, like the famous Volunteers from TN.

[Libertas]

I agree G.

Check this out, backup for Brewer's argument that the Fed's told her and her state to eff off  -

http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/26/obama-terminates-287g-immigration-enforcement-program-anyone-home/

Until there is widespread open defiance of all Federal overreach, until states and their people take charge of themselves...the Federal power will only increase day after day.

I am despondent that so many of my countrymen are so tolerant of this much interference into every single aspect of our lives.

We should be revolting already.

Instead I find myself revolted by indifference and inaction.

[Sectionhand]

Interesting that 287-g is still in effect in Texas and New Mexico . This was a blatant and nakedly punitive swipe at Az. and should be considered illegal .

[Sectionhand]

Take away the mandate and keep the pre-existing condition provision, and there will be a flood of people dropping their insurance, and every insurance company in the country will be bankrupt within the month.

I believe this is one of their primary goals.  Even with the mandate that is a likelihood, because it is crafted in such a way that many people will pay the fine and then get insurance only when they have a need for it (a pre-existing condition, in other words).  Either path leads to the elimination of private health care, enter Uncle Sugar atop his white horse to the rescue.

Personally , I think the pre-existing condition provision stinks to high heaven purely from the standpoint that it's unfair to the insurance companies . It's demanding a whole lot of something for little or nothing . Aside from that , I'm hopeful that the mandate is declared unconstitutional since it's what's holding this over-stuffed monstrosity up .

[Weisshaupt]

Personally , I think the pre-existing condition provision stinks to high heaven purely from the standpoint that it's unfair to the insurance companies . It's demanding a whole lot of something for little or nothing . Aside from that , I'm hopeful that the mandate is declared unconstitutional since it's what's holding this over-stuffed monstrosity up .

That provision means you are NOT purchasing "insurance", as insurance insures against unforeseen events.
That provision makes this a co-op with mandatory participation in which we all agree to pay the Health care bills as a group, in violation of our right of conscience, our right of association,and our right to property. These people deserve no mercy. Especially when they dare call this "insurance"

[IronDioPriest]

It hasn't been "insurance" for a long time.

Jason Lewis was talkng about this just last night.