Author Topic: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...  (Read 5606 times)

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Offline IronDioPriest

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Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« on: November 14, 2011, 07:49:48 PM »
... I'm thinking we need to be done with Herman Cain now. (video linked @ HotAir...)

Quote
You won’t believe me until you click play but this is much worse than Perry’s brain lock at the debate last week. Perry lost his train of thought; Cain doesn’t have a train at all here, to the point where he needs confirmation from the interviewer of what Obama’s position on Libya actually was... the first two minutes or so are pure agony. The board actually took pity on him, I think, by not following up. Imagine if they’d asked his opinion on Obama’s decision to ignore the War Powers Act.

And that still only barely qualifies as the worst answer he gave today. Here’s what he told them when asked, predictably enough, about Scott Walker’s righteous crusade against public employee unions:

Article and video @ HotAir.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline AlanS

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2011, 07:56:57 PM »
I'll take him before Mitt or gNewt ANY fricken day.............
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."

Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2011, 08:03:16 PM »

More of that "get the best minds together" and "solve the problem".
Didn't think so before but HE'S SELLING BOOKS!

It's time for him to join Bachmann, Huntsmann, Santorum, and
Paul and leave.

charlesoakwood

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2011, 08:05:17 PM »
I'll take him before Mitt or gNewt ANY fricken day.............

One can't make a good decision unless he possesses a basis
from which to make that decision.  He's got no basis.

Offline Damn_Lucky

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2011, 08:24:59 PM »
I'll let it play out a little more 'cause right now I'll take his worst day to ObaMao's best.
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves - Edward R. Murrow

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2011, 10:11:54 PM »
And that still only barely qualifies as the worst answer he gave today. Here’s what he told them when asked, predictably enough, about Scott Walker’s righteous crusade against public employee unions

1) We have no better alternative.
2) This is why we have Cabinet Positions and CEOs have VPs, CIO, CFOs etc

The real question is Cain smart enough to hire the right people to advise him and humble enough to listen?

I stand by my original assertion. If we can't get someone who at least will tow the Tea Party line, then we might as well leave Obama to lie in the bed he made.
Romney IS a Democrat. There isn't a point in switching the vile blatant socialist with the guy the Dems want in so they can blame all of their policy failures on "conservatives"  ( or a liberal pretending to be conservative just so he can fill this role)

Will Romney demand fiscal  responsibility? Entitlement Reform? Anything radical enough to change the course or even slow it? Hell, he can't even push Obamacare repeal because he is its God Parent.

The world financial crisis is still building, and these jokers will keep kicking the can down the road, but I will be very surprised if that can can be kicked for another 9 years. I wouldn't even give it 5.

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2011, 10:41:10 PM »
I don't think Cain has any interest in being President. It's taken me months of observation - and even staunch defense of him - to come to that disappointing conclusion. I don't know what he's doing or why he's doing it, but I don't think he was ever serious about getting the nomination.

This is the 5th or 6th high-profile time that someone has asked him a policy question that was met with the same thing: head rears back, eyes go to the ceiling and roll, he repeats the phrase or words, sits there with a blank look on his face, and then fakes an answer that makes him look ridiculous.

If he's not prepared to discuss Obama's response to Libya, he's simply not prepared - period. It is indicative of a complete lack of interest or responsibility regarding the job he's supposedly seeking.

I've gone from supporting him, to defending him, to remaining on the sidelines to see if he would right the ship, to saying outright - we need one of the others to step up.

Is he smart enough to surround himself with the right people? I present Mark Block for your examination.


"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2011, 10:48:20 PM »
Devastating. I hadn't seen this before. Getting pissed off and yelling at people because they don't buy him telling them that he didn't say what he just said.

Herman Cain...WTF?
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2011, 10:52:02 PM »
I don't think Cain has any interest in being President.

Odd. To me that is a feature, not a bug.  No one who actually wants that power should under any circumstances be allowed to have it. That goes double given  the economic circumstances, because it means you are both power hungry AND insane.    



Is he smart enough to surround himself with the right people? I present Mark Block for your examination.

Yes. I phrased it as a question largely for that reason.

But again, I see a pretty narrow field of choices here, and I can only pick the best of what is available, even if what is available is entirely crap. Romney is not "better" than Cain. A better chance of success in  the race against Obama? Sure.  I am still not seeing how that helps.

Say Cain won and the worst expectations of him are true. Does that really put us worse off than were were are now?  Where we would be with RINO Romney "professional scapegoat for the Left" in the office?

 

Offline BMG

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2011, 10:57:05 PM »
As I mentioned in a different thread (it's quite applicable here to so I'll just cut & paste the darn thing):

So far we have Cain, Gingrich and Romney to choose from. IMO Cain is still the best conservative candidate in this race (even with all his policy gaffs - and no, the trumped up sexual harassment scandal doesn't impact my opinion of him one bit), followed by Gingrich and Romney isn't even on that list. Don't get me wrong - I'll still vote for any of these three over Obama...but then, I'd also vote for a moldy ham sandwich before I'd vote for Obama. The trouble with Newt is the guy has a long history of turning against conservatism so he's barely even on this list as well, which leaves Cain simply by default.
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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2011, 11:07:17 PM »
I just can no longer continue to make excuses for the guy. That's me - my opinion, and I'm sharing it. I respect others, and just disagree.

It pains me. You can find me supporting and defending Cain in post after post here, at Hot Air, Gateway Pundit, AoSHQ, and RedState. I'm not doing it anymore.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2011, 11:10:34 PM »
Devastating. I hadn't seen this before. Getting pissed off and yelling at people because they don't buy him telling them that he didn't say what he just said.

Herman Cain...WTF?

The Video  is a n Either/Or fallacy...   Refusing to  exclude the  possibility of using precautions  isn't the same thing as advocating or saying that you will use them.  Maybe I sympathize because I am prone to loosing my cool ( and that is the main reason I can't run for office)  but yeah, refusing to see the distinction might be a bit frustrating- especially when faced  with a hypothetical in which you don't have enough details to actually make a decision.  

Yes, its "un-presidential" to loose your cool, even for a few seconds.  But you don't need to yell to have it happen. Obama snarks all of the time in a really really childish way even when he isn't making middle finger jokes.  Besides, at this point we need someone pissed off in that office, if for no other reason that to to cause constant irritation to our ruling class.  

I know I am being somewhat  flippant, but in reality there is just about nothing political that can be done now to avert the economic disaster, and even mitigation will have only a small effect in the current political climate, and the sea change we needed?  Yeah, that didn't happen.

  We are electing the person who will hold the hot potato and be blamed. We have never had an election with lower stakes. Obamacare and every other bit of government intrusion is about to be repealed en-mass by a  lack of fund to enforce them.  I don't think it makes a bit of difference if Obama or Romney is in charge when that happens.. The government will be forced to become more tyrannical because the population will be in open revolt, and it may be better if it is our side that has the most incentive to fight, vs  being obedient  and complacent because we think "our tribe" is nominally in charge. 

 

« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 11:35:50 PM by Weisshaupt »

Offline BMG

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2011, 11:14:17 PM »
Oh, not that I'm trying to say otherwise Priest. I'm feeling pretty let down by him right about now myself. If there was a better alternative I'd take it - but right now, he's the only real conservative in the race...that's my only point. I LOVE a lot of the stuff that Newt says...but the trouble is he doesn't walk the walk - he only talks the talk...at least that's the way he has been in the past. Pulling the trigger for him now is tough to do since in doing so I have no idea if the day after he gets elected he won't be sitting on a couch with Nazi Pelosi yucking it up and supporting global warming...

...and well, voting for Romney is nearly as good as voting for Obama...
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
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charlesoakwood

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2011, 11:21:26 PM »

Bachmann -  represents Mn very well

Cain - has proved himself a man who doesn't know. [Everybody here knows what was/is going on in Libya and what Obama did at least enough to bs through that question]  IDP for President!

Gingrich - is an undisciplined pol (read:dangerous). He has a beautiful brain but it's adulterated.

Huntsman - people are actually saying he may be the viable man

Paul - could do wonders for the Fed and Treasury but he will not be the nominee

Perry - has fallen from grace

Romney - is a Democrat

Santorum - pretentious juvenile, a GOP party man

Pick your partner


Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2011, 11:34:10 PM »

Bachmann -  represents Mn very well

Cain - has proved himself a man who doesn't know. [Everybody here knows what was/is going on in Libya and what Obama did at least enough to bs through that question]  IDP for President!

Gingrich - is an undisciplined pol (read:dangerous). He has a beautiful brain but it's adulterated.

Huntsman - people are actually saying he may be the viable man

Paul - could do wonders for the Fed and Treasury but he will not be the nominee

Perry - has fallen from grace

Romney - is a Democrat

Santorum - pretentious juvenile, a GOP party man

Pick your partner



Yep. 

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2011, 11:57:30 PM »
I just can no longer continue to make excuses for the guy. That's me - my opinion, and I'm sharing it. I respect others, and just disagree.

It pains me. You can find me supporting and defending Cain in post after post here, at Hot Air, Gateway Pundit, AoSHQ, and RedState. I'm not doing it anymore.

As Zoe said in Serenity. "I don't disagree on any particular point sir."  You are right, Cain has major issues. He is no Savior and there isn't a Savior in the bunch.  Now what?

This thing is going kaboom soon, and its a sure bet  that

1) The current state of affairs under Obama will look like a paradise in comparison 
2) The government will have to become more authoritarian just to keep order  - putting those negative connotations and label on the party in power while setting precedent to keep doing what they did ( Notice any similarity with Bush and Obama's policies?)   
3)whoever holds office during the collapse will be voted out  and party voted in will be able to push for "special crisis powers"  to fix the mess the last President gave us

The real question is - which party do you want voted for  in stage 3?  If Obama gets 4 more years, point 1 becomes moot because I think there is a really good chance this comes down in that time-frame. The Dems own it all. They have to be the ones clamping down, without the benefit of the doubt conservatives usually give a GOP President ( Patriot act,  )  and then Conservatives will be the ones called upon to pick up the pieces without having the conservative message   muddied by another compassionate conservative RINO in chief representing the cause.

The more I look at this, the more I  think its best to just sit tight, concentrating on winning  our local and state elections and stop worrying about the Fed.  The Huns, Visigoths,and Vandals of fiat money and entitlements are coming and it really doesn't matter much who rules when they get here.



 

Offline rickl

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2011, 01:26:12 AM »
The commenter foxmarks at Neo-Neocon had a great comment the other day:

Quote
foxmarks Says:
November 13th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
I haven’t lost hope. I acknowledge mathematics. Yes, the people know how to provide bountiful food, safe shelter and myriad entertainments. But the takers have been promised too much, and the makers have used too much leverage to provide for both themselves and the parasite factions.

A collapse is inevitable. Only Paul is talking about shrinking government and taking leverage out of the system at a level that might lead to an orderly restructuring. Instead, we will have The Great Repricing. We can make the same bounty in terms of tons and calories and gallons. But the dollar value relationships between them will be much different. Anyone who thinks in terms of GDP is using a dollar-based measure and not seeing the problem. All the factions who think they are owed so much will have a hard reckoning.

So I am looking for the candidate who might help those angry taker factions to see that the world is different now and they’re up for some austerity and hard work. A candidate who has significance outside politics and into culture. The economic picture after the Repricing will be determined more by the culture, what people are willing to do and what they’re willing to do it for. Value is subjective.

Romney is a finance guy, the old guard. He would attempt to assert the old pricing on the new world. His life has been built on leverage. And culturally, he is ruling class. Who is he going to inspire? T. Coddington Voorhees doesn’t need our help.

Obama is the Great Society guy. He thinks hard work is optional. The post-Repricing society will be better if we can hang the collapse solidly on our socialist factions. With Barry, the collapse is more violent as he rages against fate, but we get to the sunshine faster.

Paul is the one who gets the economics right, but he’s not suitable as CinC in the real world, nor does he offer any help in appeasing the suffering during the period of instability and repricing. Although at least he wouldn’t unleash the troops on the people (unlike Perry, who seems eager to squash somebody).

Santorum is a non-factor. So, if anyone has sympathy for my scenario, out of Bachmann, Cain and Gingrich, who can best preside over urban riots and temporary shortages of food and fuel? Which of those three is most likely to respect the Constitution and not make excuses for violating it?

Now that's an interesting way to look at our choice, isn't it?
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Offline trapeze

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2011, 01:44:51 AM »
Late to this particular party but here goes...

The summary by Charles is more or less equivalent to my own opinion on the matter.

One of these candidates is going to be our nominee.

There will be no write-in or draft Palin nonsense.

Eliminate the obvious deadwood: Huntsman. Bachmann. Santorum. All gone after NH at the latest.

Paul will stay in it all the way to the convention. He doesn't have the sense or the grace to get out of the race and will maybe get somewhere between one and ten delegates.

Romney will stay in it all the way to the convention because a) it's his turn and b) he has the money. More on him below.

Perry will be in it through South Carolina or maybe Nevada depending on how he finishes in Iowa and New Hampshire. I'm not writing him off because as unlikely as it looks now he is still a viable Not Romney. But he could be finished without a strong showing in IA and NH.

Cain is getting a lot of support from Limbaugh and Levin for reasons I cannot fathom. On the one hand I know that they do not like the Clarence Thomas style of smears that have come his way. I don't either. And I don't believe them to be credible. But, that said, over the last two to three weeks I have had the exact same shift in attitude toward Cain that IDP has chronicled. I reluctantly overlooked the "right of return" gaffe but it did raise my awareness toward this problem. I was further annoyed by the "abortion" gaffe. There isn't any point in listing them all...we know them... Cain is not exhibiting the behavior and temperament of a serious candidate. That this is now evident to political geeks (like us) means that it will be evident to the rest of the base before the IA caucuses. Cain has enough money to make it through the first two or three primaries but that will be it. Limbaugh called out Bachmann and I have to wonder just how much longer he can carry Cain's water. Can't be too much longer.

There is a damned good reason that most of the field consists of Not Romneys. Romney, as pointed out above, isn't a conservative and calling him a RINO is being extremely generous. Romney is a liberal technocrat. He will sell himself as a better manager of big government than BO and, if he is the nominee, that will probably be enough to win. He is, as pointed out elsewhere, our Dukakis. Since I would vote for anyone who is nominated to oppose BO I will vote for him. Dutifully. Just like I dutifully voted for McAsshole the last go round. Because I have to tell my children and grandchildren that I did everything in my power to oppose BO.

Which leaves Gingrich*. Gingrich has well documented problems, most of them listed in the above posts. Gingrich is, like Romeny, a technocrat. He is not a conservative in the vein of Reagan. He does not see a real problem with the bloated size of the federal government but rather sees it as an opportunity to step in a do a better job of managing it. His history more than verifies this. I see him as a Romney Lite. A more astute Romney. More of a fighter than Romney. Of all of the candidates, I have to admit, I look forward most to Gingrich facing BO head to head just because he would intellectually eviscerate BO in the same manner that he did Scott Pelley last Saturday night.

I see the field right now as Romney, Perry, Cain and Gingrich. I believe, barring something very odd, it will be one of these four who will be our nominee. I just don't see how one of the others rises up to win at this point.

I also believe that any of these can beat BO. BO sucks. Everyone knows it although there are a great number of squishes who will not publicly admit it. BO makes Carter look wise and thoughtful. I honestly do not know how BO isn't defeated by anyone after his tour de force of incompetence.

So...where does that leave us?

If one of these yahoos is elected, what then?

It comes back to Congress at that point. I hate to put our national salvation in the hands of Congress but that's really what it will come down to. And there is some recent precedent for it. The Class of 1994 was truly amazing. They rose to the occasion and fulfilled the Contract With America and then proceeded to reform welfare, balance the budget and create a budget surplus (even though the MFM gave Clinton the credit for it).

If we end up with a weak president (from a conservative point of view) then there is a very strong incentive for Congress to rise up and lead in his place. A weak president will sign whatever legislation the Congress sends his way.

That puts the real trick in electing an even more conservative Congress than we have now. Not easy to do but at least there we have options.

In the presidential field our options are pretty bleak.


*Does kind of make you think of Pawlenty and what might have been.


(and welcome back, rickl)
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 01:59:22 AM by trapeze »
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2011, 02:00:59 AM »
Quote
So, if anyone has sympathy for my scenario, out of Bachmann, Cain and Gingrich, who can best preside over urban riots and temporary shortages of food and fuel? Which of those three is most likely to respect the Constitution and not make excuses for violating it?

Bachman votes for the Patriot Act which is the groundwork  government control
Newt is too smart by half and sees government as the solution. He's a technocrat.

Cain just doesn't seem to have it

Offline trapeze

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Re: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2011, 02:09:51 AM »
But, yeah, Cain isn't serious. He is already an embarrassment to me. I can't support someone who knows less about just about every major and minor issue than I do.

(I quit listening to Sean Hannity and Bill "Ted Baxter" O'Reilly for the same reason...I know more than they do and therefore I can't learn anything from them. Not bragging, that's just the way it is.)

I don't know how someone can be as successful as Cain has been in life and perform so incredibly poorly in this campaign. It is mind boggling. Cain has a very impressive resume and, unlike BO, it appears to be earned rather than donated by way of affirmative action and PC pity.

Seriously, how hard can it be to pick up a book or two and bone up on foreign policy? How tough is it to hire a political consultant to coach you on this stuff so that you don't make an ass of yourself? It's not as if he can't afford it.

Truly puzzling.

Cain has the appearance of being a decent person. I want to like him. I want to support him.

But I can't.

He has squandered my initial trust and benefit of the doubt. I just don't see where it goes from here.

Pity.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.