Topic: I Call B.S. on Amish Girl's Accidental Death

[BigAlSouth]

From the Assoc. Press:
Sheriff: Ohio man cleaning gun killed Amish girl

FREDERICKSBURG, Ohio (AP) -- A man cleaning his muzzle-loading rifle shot the gun into the air, accidentally killing a 15-year-old Amish girl driving a horse-drawn buggy more than a mile away, a sheriff said Tuesday.

Rachel Yoder was shot in the head Thursday night while traveling to her home in Wayne County, between Columbus and Akron. She had attended a Christmas party for employees, most of them under 18 years old, at an Amish produce farm and was riding home alone when she was shot, Wayne County sheriff's Capt. Douglas Hunter said.

So, if I understand the story, some guy cleaning a muzzle load, black powder rifle ( which shoots a round ball, I presume) fires the gun into the air and kills a girl 1.5 miles away.

Unbelievable. Literally. I don't buy it for a minute.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BUGGY_SHOOTING_DEATH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-12-20-17-50-11

Check Mythbusters Episode:

Bullets fired into the air maintain their lethal capability when they eventually fall back down.

busted / plausible / confirmed

In the case of a bullet fired at a precisely vertical angle (something extremely difficult for a human being to duplicate), the bullet would tumble, lose its spin, and fall at a much slower speed due to terminal velocity and is therefore rendered less than lethal on impact. However, if a bullet is fired upward at a non-vertical angle (a far more probable possibility), it will maintain its spin and will reach a high enough speed to be lethal on impact. Because of this potentiality, firing a gun into the air is illegal in most states, and even in the states that it is legal, it is not recommended by the police. Also the MythBusters were able to identify two people who had been injured by falling bullets, one of them fatally injured. To date, this is the only myth to receive all three ratings at the same time.

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode50

Is the local sheriff trying to falsely calm the Amish community?

[charlesoakwood]

If falling bullets were that lethal there would be a
lot more dead muslims.

[IronDioPriest]

If falling bullets were that lethal there would be a
lot more dead muslims.

Maybe that's why they wear the turbans.

[Sectionhand]

It depends on the actual trajectory but in my experience it's doubtful that a black powder charge would have carried ball ammo that far unless he was using more than the recommended load .

[Libertas]

We don't know the angle of the rifle at the time of discharge, but judging the victim was a mile or so away away, depending on the powder load, it either had to be angled slightly off vertical or more toward horizon and the victim to maintain lethal velocity...the former could be an accident, the latter less so.  No mention of the relationship of the shooter and the victim or if the Sheriff knew either.  Might have to chock this up as a "may never really know" kinda thing, but an accident could still be a possibility.  The odds involved in making an accident such as this have to be pretty steep though.

 

[Damn_Lucky]

If falling bullets were that lethal there would be a
lot more dead muslims.

Maybe that's why they wear the turbans.

 

[Delnorin]

My question is... how do we know it was 1.5 miles away?  We taking the word of the guy that shot the gun?

I'm wondering if he wasn't 50 yards away and then ran home and started working on his story.

[John Florida]

  How far will a black powder rifle go before it falls? And what the hell angle was he shooting at to get 1 1/2 miles and have enough power left to kill a person/ This just doesn't pass the smell test.

[BigAlSouth]

Post a theory.

Del's right. One article said that a neighbor heard him fire the rifle about the time that the girl was supposedly shot.

I would like to know the extent of her head wound. At first, family thought she fell out of the buggy on her head.

[Delnorin]

  How far will a black powder rifle go before it falls? And what the hell angle was he shooting at to get 1 1/2 miles and have enough power left to kill a person/ This just doesn't pass the smell test.

I agree.  Fire it straight/level and it will hit the ground in like 200 yards.... so you aim up a little bit to get it further.

Up a little more to get it to 500 yards.... further still to get to 1000 yards.

I can't see a musket doing anything other than giving you a bruise at 1.5 miles.. if it's even possible at all to go that far in the first place.

[charlesoakwood]

Ah, a musket.  Wouldn't the weight of the bullet affect the distance
it could travel?  Don't most black powder rifles shoot heavy bullets?
In the pictures those things look close to a 1/2 inch in diameter.  It
would take a lot of black powder to propel a 1/2 inch in diameter lead
ball 1.5 miles.

Dwipe knows all things black powder. 
Something he actually knows and he's
not here to tell us.

[Sectionhand]

Ah, a musket.  Wouldn't the weight of the bullet affect the distance
it could travel?  Don't most black powder rifles shoot heavy bullets?
In the pictures those things look close to a 1/2 inch in diameter.  It
would take a lot of black powder to propel a 1/2 inch in diameter lead
ball 1.5 miles.

Dwipe knows all things black powder.  
Something he actually knows and he's
not here to tell us.

Muzzle loading rifles come in a variety of calibers ; .32 , .36 , .38 , .45 , .50 , etc. The shape of the bullet ( conical or pointed ) as well as the amount of powder will determine the range . At a level shooting position with a normal powder charge the "drop" would put the projectile on the ground at no more than about 500 yds . To get maximum range the shooter would have to aim at about 45 degrees . Also no experienced Muzzle Loader would use a charge greater than recommended for fear of a breach failure ( explosion ) . There are instances from the Civil War in which men were merely knocked down by "spent" rounds of .58 caliber fired from 700 - 800 yds. Although a spent round to the head can quite possibly kill without entering the skull . I'm very doubtful though about the 1.5 mile distance mentioned above .

[Libertas]

Don't know muzzle-loaders at all, but what you all say sounds reasonable, it is one improbable shot even if from just a mile (1760 yards).  It's starting to sound like this is a BS story.  If you knew the nature and extent of the wound and the weight of the bullet and size of the charge used you would think it would come down to mathematics as to what is/is not possible given the distance, positions and conditions.

[warpmine]

Generally, when you clean your rifle, it's after you've done some shooting. If you can see where I'm going with this....how is discharging a muzzle loader considered cleaning? Am I missing something or has the sun dulled my senses.

[Sectionhand]

Generally, when you clean your rifle, it's after you've done some shooting. If you can see where I'm going with this....how is discharging a muzzle loader considered cleaning? Am I missing something or has the sun dulled my senses.

There's nothing at all wrong with your senses .

[Libertas]

Gotta clean that ball out of there, eh?

 

So at the very least he should be charged with negligent discharge or something, right?

There is obviously more to this story that isn't being told...

[Sectionhand]

Gotta clean that ball out of there, eh?

 

So at the very least he should be charged with negligent discharge or something, right?

Bill Clinton already tried that defense .

[John Florida]

Gotta clean that ball out of there, eh?

 

So at the very least he should be charged with negligent discharge or something, right?

Bill Clinton already tried that defense .

 OH MY!

[Libertas]

 

SH is on a roll!