Author Topic: CPAC subcontext  (Read 1095 times)

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Online Pandora

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CPAC subcontext
« on: February 17, 2012, 12:55:42 PM »
Apparently, there was some goings-on that were not reported, nor discussed until just recently; attire and sexual conduct.

CPAC: Not Quite Like the Media Matters Communications Room. But Still, Grow Up.

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More than a few of the twenty and thirty somethings who go to CPAC seem to treat it like an extension of their college days doing their best to hook up before passing out. It’s not the majority to be sure, but it is a noticeable minority.

In Defense of Tina Korbe and Women Who Want to Look Like Women

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Last weekend, Hot Air’s Tina Korbe and Ed Morrissey sat down for an on-camera interview with presidential hopeful Rick Santorum. Stacy McCain, a blogger, saw the video and took the opportunity to attack Tina not for the questions she asked, but for what she was wearing.

CPAC: The Jersey Shore-ification Of Our Young People — UPDATED

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Women, if you’re at a conference where you’re learning to be a future politician or wish to succeed in the business of politics, dress the part. No, you don’t have to be in a business suit with pearls. However, modesty is a minimum.

When You’re in Bed with Dogs Don’t Be Surprised if You Pick Up a Few Fleas

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CPAC has been infiltrated on so many levels — by the anarcho-capitalists, the stealth Jihadists, and now the misogynists. Yet GOProud isn’t welcome.

It’s time to forget about CPAC. There are plenty of other opportunities for activists to network and hear speakers.

Boyoboyoboy!

"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

charlesoakwood

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2012, 02:01:12 PM »

Quote
Quote
In Defense of Tina Korbe and Women Who Want to Look Like Women

Last weekend, Hot Air’s Tina Korbe and Ed Morrissey sat down for an on-camera interview with presidential hopeful Rick Santorum. Stacy McCain, a blogger, saw the video and took the opportunity to attack Tina not for the questions she asked, but for what she was wearing.

In our society of no right or wrong we witness professional women, see Fox News Channel, who dress more like whores or cocktail waitresses than traditional professionals.  And men being primal animals should be expected to respond accordingly.

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 03:14:28 PM »
Re; attire and appearance, I may depart from what may turn out to be the norm here. I am far more concerned with behavior than appearance. I'm more concerned about people abandoning traditional morals and behavior - which  I do understand fashion is a part - I just don't think it is as crucial a part as behavior.

As someone who had hair down to my belt and wore hoop earrings until I was 41 years old, and who sports a large tattoo on each upper arm, I am very familiar with being judged by my appearance. I used to make a game out of shattering people's expectations that I was just a dirtbag based on how I looked. It usually took about ten seconds of conversation. I grew out of that game and the appearance, and of course I understand first impressions, as well as the value of generalization. But now I blend.

Still, I am far more concerned with stories of CPAC attendees lining up for condoms to attend the after-party meat market than I am about stories of chicks in short skirts or tight tops. Fashion always changes, and always outrages earlier generations. I know that fashion can be taken to immodest extremes, and that fashion can only devolve so far before everybody's walking around nude. But I don't worry about the conservative brand being taken less seriously because young people in the movement don't adhere to traditional fashion. I'd be more concerned about young conservatives up-and-coming in the movement who may be placing themselves in compromising positions that could come back to haunt them.

BTW, Tina Korbe is a very beautiful woman. I like her thighs just fine.

 ::pimp::

"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 03:27:49 PM »

Opinion from the other side of the hill is there is a direct ratio between flesh exposed,
body parts expressed (sweater girl) and condoms purchased.
                                                                                      ::pimp::


"I am very familiar with being judged by my appearance."  Exactly,  this isn't the entertainment business
they are in the business of changing the world.  What in the hell are they thinking?

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 03:43:22 PM »
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I'd be more concerned about young conservatives up-and-coming in the movement who may be placing themselves in compromising positions that could come back to haunt them.

Yes.  That's the concern, but think about the steps that often take unwitting young folks from point A to The Haunting.

I hate to sound like an old fogey, but it often does start with attire, and sexist, it is more often with females.  Young ladies who want to be taken seriously will find it more difficult if they're wearing skirts up to there and shirts cut down to there, if for no other reason that it distracts the male of the species from properly focusing his attention.  A more modest style of dress does not have to be unfashionable or unattractive, but it does convey a soberer demeanor and influences not just the way other people interact with you, it affects your own attitude.  Do you not carry/conduct yourself a little bit differently when you're wearing a coat and tie than when you're clad in jeans and a tee shirt?  Do you not find yourself treated a bit differently by folks who don't know you as well?

Young women who put "it" out there (fashion) are more likely to find themselves having sent the wrong signals, resulting in -- I'm going old fogey again -- compromising positions, "the after-party meat-market", which may lead to "The Haunting".

I see I went the long way around in an attempt to demonstrate this equation:  dress>attitude>behavior>outcome.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 04:36:41 PM »
Quote
I am far more concerned with behavior than appearance. I'm more concerned about people abandoning traditional morals and behavior - which  I do understand fashion is a part - I just don't think it is as crucial a part as behavior.

It is behavior that Eric from Red State addressed, specifically that of the young men, calling many of them out as cads.  (I linked to his post in the thread-starter.)

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I am not even sure that there is a solution to the problem. But we should not think it is anything but a problem. It is not every young man, but there are many. They risk dragging the whole affair down to some bawdy, rowdy distraction. They risk embarrassing themselves and the conservative movement. They risk the perception premised on their own actions that conservative men of a certain age think that good manners and decorum around women of the same age is unneeded or unwanted.

This is not to say CPAC cannot and should not be fun. This is not to say that CPAC cannot and should not be a party. But it is to say that I hope the college groups bussing in students next year, the out of college set there to network, and CPAC itself encourage behavior we all too often don’t talk about anymore in our society — the behavior of gentlemen. Eat, drink, smoke, be merry, but be chivalrous too. There really is, regardless of your age, no need to play the cad at CPAC to score points with conservative ladies.

Conservatives should, first and foremost, want to conserve the basics and good behavior should remain a basic characteristic of the conservative movement. As conservatives, we believe in self-government. With that belief comes the duty of personal responsibility. We should accept that duty as the opportunity to do what is right, not as license to behave like fools.

It really is time to embrace again the concept of growing the hell up.

And Melissa Clothier addressed the young ladies -- also linked.

"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 05:08:39 PM »
Quote
I'd be more concerned about young conservatives up-and-coming in the movement who may be placing themselves in compromising positions that could come back to haunt them.

Yes.  That's the concern, but think about the steps that often take unwitting young folks from point A to The Haunting.

I hate to sound like an old fogey, but it often does start with attire, and sexist, it is more often with females.  Young ladies who want to be taken seriously will find it more difficult if they're wearing skirts up to there and shirts cut down to there, if for no other reason that it distracts the male of the species from properly focusing his attention.  A more modest style of dress does not have to be unfashionable or unattractive, but it does convey a soberer demeanor and influences not just the way other people interact with you, it affects your own attitude.  Do you not carry/conduct yourself a little bit differently when you're wearing a coat and tie than when you're clad in jeans and a tee shirt?  Do you not find yourself treated a bit differently by folks who don't know you as well?

Young women who put "it" out there (fashion) are more likely to find themselves having sent the wrong signals, resulting in -- I'm going old fogey again -- compromising positions, "the after-party meat-market", which may lead to "The Haunting".

I see I went the long way around in an attempt to demonstrate this equation:  dress>attitude>behavior>outcome.


I acknowledge that entire dynamic, and don't discount it entirely or even mostly. I get everything you're saying and in general, agree in principle if not entirely in how I would apply the standard. "Clothes make the man", they say, and that is a good bit of wisdom. Even I at my ripe young age of 49 am recognizing some "old fogeyness" settling in, and find it to be a thing of value on balance, so I definitely hear ya. I guess I'm just saying that rather than looking at attire and drawing the conclusion that if it may send the wrong signal that it should be avoided, I look at it and allow for the person's actions to speak louder than their clothes. I place more importance on the actions, and if they're in line, then the dress becomes inconsequential to me - up to a point, obviously. And I don't know exactly where that point is, but I think I'd know it if I saw it.

Regarding my conduct when I wear a suit and tie, and the treatment of others - absolutely. Without a doubt, you put on a coat and tie, and you stand a little straighter, act a little more refined, dignified, etc - and people generally treat you accordingly. It's a nice feeling. But I can also say this: I hate the ever-loving guts out of a coat and tie. I avoid them whenever and wherever possible. I bring casual clothes with me to weddings and funerals, and the very first moment I believe it's appropriate to get out of the monkey suit, I do. Sometimes that moment doesn't arrive, sometimes it arrives but not until late into the event - sometimes it arrives between the church and the reception hall and I've had a chance to get a lay of the land, as it were. It all depends.

But suffice it to say, I've never been one who goes too much for formality. I can gladly accommodate the requirements of a given situation. But that's how I view them - requirements. I wear a suit because it is expected, and to do otherwise would be inappropriate and disrespectful - not because I want to feel like I look refined.

Which (this is total stream of consciousness, hope you don't mind) brings me back to CPAC and expectations for attire. Whether the attire expectations were "Black Tie", "Business Formal", "Business Casual", "Comfortable Attire", or "Come-as-you-are" would have a significant bearing in my mind as to what is or is not appropriate attire. Without knowing, I would guess that an event like CPAC would either be "Business Casual" or "Business Formal". Taking Tina Korbe's outfit as an example, I think she would reasonably fit into either category. I'm pretty certain the dress code was not "mid-calf or lower". Current fashion trends allow for leeway. I don't think that she should expect that if she shows her thighs in a shorter skirt, that she will not be taken seriously, as long as what she wore fits the dress code. Placing an additional burden on her to choose more modestly because she is a conservative woman is a standard that I don't feel comfortable expecting from her, unless her subsequent actions were to indicate that the skirt > attitude > behavior > outcome.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 05:09:57 PM »
Quote
I am far more concerned with behavior than appearance. I'm more concerned about people abandoning traditional morals and behavior - which  I do understand fashion is a part - I just don't think it is as crucial a part as behavior.

It is behavior that Eric from Red State addressed, specifically that of the young men, calling many of them out as cads.  (I linked to his post in the thread-starter.)

Quote
I am not even sure that there is a solution to the problem. But we should not think it is anything but a problem. It is not every young man, but there are many. They risk dragging the whole affair down to some bawdy, rowdy distraction. They risk embarrassing themselves and the conservative movement. They risk the perception premised on their own actions that conservative men of a certain age think that good manners and decorum around women of the same age is unneeded or unwanted.

This is not to say CPAC cannot and should not be fun. This is not to say that CPAC cannot and should not be a party. But it is to say that I hope the college groups bussing in students next year, the out of college set there to network, and CPAC itself encourage behavior we all too often don’t talk about anymore in our society — the behavior of gentlemen. Eat, drink, smoke, be merry, but be chivalrous too. There really is, regardless of your age, no need to play the cad at CPAC to score points with conservative ladies.

Conservatives should, first and foremost, want to conserve the basics and good behavior should remain a basic characteristic of the conservative movement. As conservatives, we believe in self-government. With that belief comes the duty of personal responsibility. We should accept that duty as the opportunity to do what is right, not as license to behave like fools.

It really is time to embrace again the concept of growing the hell up.

And Melissa Clothier addressed the young ladies -- also linked.



Yes, I agree totally. CPAC should not resemble a frat party or Jersey Shore. People should behave themselves.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Online Pandora

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 05:27:00 PM »
Quote
Taking Tina Korbe's outfit as an example, I think she would reasonably fit into either category. I'm pretty certain the dress code was not "mid-calf or lower". Current fashion trends allow for leeway. I don't think that she should expect that if she shows her thighs in a shorter skirt, that she will not be taken seriously, as long as what she wore fits the dress code. Placing an additional burden on her to choose more modestly because she is a conservative woman is a standard that I don't feel comfortable expecting from her, unless her subsequent actions were to indicate that the skirt > attitude > behavior > outcome.

I agree that the dress-code there was not longer-skirt required, yes, there is leeway as far as hemlines, however ...

... and you probably knew there would be one ..  ;)

.... although I didn't see the vid, it was written that Tina, while sitting, gave her hemline a tug.  That's a sign I recognize, as a woman, that she was a tad bit uncomfortable showing that much thigh, however much or little it was.  So, I'm not placing any burden on her (she did that herself), nor seeking to additionally burden conservative women; I'm voicing the opinion that many young women of all stripes need to dial it back regarding their attire.  Or the relatively little of it.  Many times it gives the wrong first impression and sometimes that's all there is; first becomes lasting.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

charlesoakwood

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2012, 05:32:24 PM »

Judging from condom sales the impression was exact.

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2012, 05:43:54 PM »
Btw, I wasn't always 58 and I had my "hawt" days, but not at work or for business encounters.  Even as a young attractive woman, I recognized "appropriate" as regards context.

Gunsmith and I got married in our living room; I wore a nice blouse and skirt (just above the knee) ensemble and he wore a very nice denim shirt and jeans.  And a ponytail.  And a tiny, tiny ear stud.  The 'tail is long gone, the stud remains, and he has come to acknowledge that the attire of many of the young women at work makes him uncomfortable.  And he's younger than you, IDP.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2012, 06:13:00 PM »
Btw, I wasn't always 58 and I had my "hawt" days, but not at work or for business encounters.  Even as a young attractive woman, I recognized "appropriate" as regards context.

Gunsmith and I got married in our living room; I wore a nice blouse and skirt (just above the knee) ensemble and he wore a very nice denim shirt and jeans.  And a ponytail.  And a tiny, tiny ear stud.  The 'tail is long gone, the stud remains, and he has come to acknowledge that the attire of many of the young women at work makes him uncomfortable.  And he's younger than you, IDP.

Rawr! (just funnin ya)

"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson


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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2012, 06:38:40 PM »
Yeah, rawr, ha ha.   ::saywhat::

I don't believe the term applies if one marries the contents of the cradle one robs.    ::evilbat::
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2012, 06:59:15 PM »
Yeah, rawr, ha ha.   ::saywhat::

I don't believe the term applies if one marries the contents of the cradle one robs.    ::evilbat::

 ::falldownshocked::
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2012, 07:10:29 PM »
  ::pimp::

 ::rolllaughing::

I do believe I've "shocked the laity".
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2012, 08:07:07 PM »
OK I checked out the vid of Tina Korbe. That reminded me of a joke:

Quote
A guy meets a cute chick and set about seducing her.
"Would you sleep with me for a million Dollars?" he asks.
She looks him over and thinks a bit, "Yea, probably"
"Would you sleep with me for a hundred Dollars?"
"What kind of girl do you take me for? she exclaims.
"Oh, I think we both know what sort of girl you are, now we're just haggling over the price".

They invented the word "propriety" for a good reason. Correct or appropriate behavior. The proper time & place. This ol fart partied too. But I've always tried to conduct myself with style. Gettin crazy when the circumstances warranted, showing class when it mattered, staying frosty when I needed to be sharp. Proper time & place, kiddies, proper time & place.

Oh, and the 'rappers'? Just embarrassing.

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Re: CPAC subcontext
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2012, 12:14:05 PM »
"if for no other reason that it distracts the male of the species from properly focusing his attention."

Yeah, I'll fess up, I can be distracted!

 ;D
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.