Author Topic: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot  (Read 2348 times)

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Online Pandora

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Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« on: August 25, 2012, 07:37:59 AM »
This is too good not to share.

Quote
Driving is not a right. You can have your privilege taken away by the state at any time for violations. If it was a right you could not like voting. If it is a right would not fees and taxes against the law? It is not in the constitution as a right and if you had no money the government does not give you a car or pay your insurance or tags for you. Legally if it was a right they would.

You have the right to freedom to travel and move about but it does not say a car is it. You are free to come and go on your feet or a bicycle or public transport.

Have at it.
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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2012, 08:26:36 AM »
What the hell is this?
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2012, 08:28:26 AM »
It's one voter's opinion, from the intarwebs, aka my local forum.

What's wrong, IDP?
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2012, 08:45:11 AM »
This is too good not to share.

Quote
Driving is not a right. You can have your privilege taken away by the state at any time for violations. If it was a right you could not like voting. If it is a right would not fees and taxes against the law? It is not in the constitution as a right and if you had no money the government does not give you a car or pay your insurance or tags for you. Legally if it was a right they would.

You have the right to freedom to travel and move about but it does not say a car is it. You are free to come and go on your feet or a bicycle or public transport.

Have at it.

Don't know Pan, this doesn't quite rise to blithering idiot quality for me. Just run of the mill,  post American,  public school educated nonsense .

The  invocation of the Constitution is absurd

Quote
Amendment IX :The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X:The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

A "right"  does not need to be enumerated in the Constitution to be a "right".

As to  his point, I think it would be more accurate to say that I don't have a right to drive a car on public roads. I have a right to own and drive a car all I want on my own property - without a license or plates.  A "Right" does not preclude reasonable bounds either - you rights end where another's begin.  Your right to yell "Fire" ends when its endangers or harms others. Likewise, your "right" to drive a car ends when you endanger others. A License is the common  way of trying to ensure that a person behind the wheel is responsible enough to be there and not cause damage.

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2012, 08:52:35 AM »
Quote
As to  his point, I think it would be more accurate to say that I don't have a right to drive a car on public roads. I have a right to own and drive a car all I want on my own property - without a license or plates.  A "Right" does not preclude reasonable bounds either - you rights end where another's begin.  Your right to yell "Fire" ends when its endangers or harms others. Likewise, your "right" to drive a car ends when you endanger others. A License is the common  way of trying to ensure that a person behind the wheel is responsible enough to be there and not cause damage.

Driving is a right, not a privilege and I'm not gonna leave it to the government to decide what rights I have and I don't.  We are taxed in too many innumerable ways for the damn roads to buy into the government's little myth.  You may just as well apply your licensing rationale to the Second Amendment, if that was the case, for no other reason than "A "right"  does not need to be enumerated in the Constitution to be a "right", as you wrote.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline radioman

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2012, 09:04:09 AM »
Of course we didn't have cars back when the constitution was written, and they spelled out our 'rights', so, I wonder, I suppose that the citizens had a 'right' to own and ride a horse. Did the government require a riders license, horse registration, horse inspection, and liability insurance back then?

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2012, 09:15:51 AM »
Of course we didn't have cars back when the constitution was written, and they spelled out our 'rights', so, I wonder, I suppose that the citizens had a 'right' to own and ride a horse. Did the government require a riders license, horse registration, horse inspection, and liability insurance back then?

No, there was none of that required for horses and buckboards, but I figure you wrote that tongue-in-cheek anyway.

As for the Constitution, it did not spell out our rights, radioman; it set up the Federal government, authorized 18 duties and responsibilities, and included the Bill of Rights as an added and emphasized "DO NOT TOUCH" with an Amendment that said "and this is not an inclusive list".

The Constitution is not a list of what we may do; it's a list of what the Feds must and cannot.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2012, 09:17:05 AM »
Quote
Don't know Pan, this doesn't quite rise to blithering idiot quality for me. Just run of the mill,  post American,  public school educated nonsense .

Same brain-dead blithering idiot that swore I made up the word "fungible" and poohed-poohed my dictionary source.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2012, 09:54:04 AM »
Driving is a right, not a privilege and I'm not gonna leave it to the government to decide what rights I have and I don't.  We are taxed in too many innumerable ways for the damn roads to buy into the government's little myth.  You may just as well apply your licensing rationale to the Second Amendment, if that was the case, for no other reason than "A "right"  does not need to be enumerated in the Constitution to be a "right", as you wrote.

There are two definitions of a "Right" - the liberal one, in which a commodity is provided to everyone at the expense of others, and the conservative one, which is usually a cost-free declaration that you may pursue a particular course of action without interference and  at your own expense.

The typical conservative/libertarian view is that   govt can only prohibit and punish actions that harm others -a concept known as "negative law" .  The opposite end of the spectrum is "Positive law", in which  the govt laws mandate certain behavior - things you  <must>  do  to produce  desired "beneficial" societal outcomes-  Robert's decision handed that power to the liberals in spades.

In the conservative view You don't have the right to use your liberty  in such a way that it endangers the "Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness" of others.  You have a right to own a gun. You don't have a right to use one recklessly, and we (in theory) deprive people of that right when they show they will abuse it (say a felon) , or if we feel that they are (more) likely to abuse it (insane).

Libertarians tend to prefer laws that punish only real, identifiable harm. Hence they fell drug use should be legal - even if it increases the possibility that an addicted drug user will commit crimes to feed their habit.  They feel we must wait till there is an identifiable victim before the govt can step in.  However, that means someone may have died during a drug related robbery attempt, so most conservatives favor a "middle ground" further over on the spectrum toward "positive law" -  where the probability of bad results is in included in the calculations of if an activity is considered illegal.  Its an attempt to regulate behavior deemed likely to result in harm to others - "legal endangerment" is the embodiment of this concept .  Consequently, your freedom of speech doesn't include a right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater,  your 2nd amendment right doesn't allow you to fire your gun in the air in a crowded city ( or at all in some places) , and your right to "free movement"  doesn't allow a blind person to get behind  the wheel of a car.

The potential for abuse is there because you are relying on someone's vision and determination of what is "likely" to cause harm- just as positive law relies on someone's view of "what is best for society"  A driver's license is a way to determine who is "likely" to cause harm - the blind, known drunks with DUIs, etc.  Likewise, the requirement for liability insurance  is to protect others in the case that a person who WAS  issued a license has a bad day - a second order protection of the rights of others.

Just because something is a "Right", doesn't mean it can't be restricted to protect the rights of others (especially at the State or local level) , and that is all  the licensing system is supposed to be doing.  Of course, as Radioman pointed out, at other times we (being our govt and system for determining such things) decided the potential harm did not warrant a licensing system  - partly because Horse drawn speeds were more limited, roads were poor and traffic was less.

This difference is really the main dispute between conservatism and libertarianism - and why I typically identify as Conservative and not libertarian.  I do believe that the govt should engage in restricting behavior likely to cause harm, and accept the tradeoff that in certain circumstances a right may be restricted unfairly and for no reason.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2012, 09:57:06 AM »
Quote
Don't know Pan, this doesn't quite rise to blithering idiot quality for me. Just run of the mill,  post American,  public school educated nonsense .

Same brain-dead blithering idiot that swore I made up the word "fungible" and poohed-poohed my dictionary source.

Well you didn't mention that.  Yes, that is blithering idiot quality.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2012, 10:06:08 AM »
With blitering idiots being turned out by state run indoctrination camps it is no wonder the constitution has been so perverted. If people do not care to truly educate themselves on our Founding and the men who led it, the meaning of the Declaration of Independence, the meaning of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the principles of real Federalism...it is because they were taught the meaning of words is fungible so it is no wonder their interpretation of original intent is made fungible!  The state education camps cater to the lowest common denominator, we are merely witnessing the bitter fruits of that harvest.  Time for reaping.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Glock32

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2012, 10:22:37 AM »
The only fix for this species of moron is to find out what her particular ox is, and then gore it. It's a trait that goes hand in hand with being an Oblivion, the inability to conceptualize things unless they can be directly felt and experienced by oneself.

The anti-smoking crusaders of the early 90s probably never thought the same mentality (and most importantly, the same sledgehammer they had just entrusted the government with) would ever be used in new crusades against such things as table salt, fatty foods, and 32 ounce soft drinks.

Morons like this will never get it, until it's some aspect of their own lives being declared officially unacceptable.
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Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2012, 10:48:43 AM »
“The unexamined life is not worth living”

I especially appreciate the certainty with which she relinquishes her rights. I remember her type from the long ago time of my school years. Always eager to demonstrate how well she could conform to the rules; always apprehensive about pleasing her superiors. Not enough to merely be a sheeple - she is the type who scolds others for their alleged improprieties.

"Mary was a little lamb..."

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2012, 11:12:59 AM »
Driving is a right, not a privilege and I'm not gonna leave it to the government to decide what rights I have and I don't.  We are taxed in too many innumerable ways for the damn roads to buy into the government's little myth.  You may just as well apply your licensing rationale to the Second Amendment, if that was the case, for no other reason than "A "right"  does not need to be enumerated in the Constitution to be a "right", as you wrote.

There are two definitions of a "Right" - the liberal one, in which a commodity is provided to everyone at the expense of others, and the conservative one, which is usually a cost-free declaration that you may pursue a particular course of action without interference and  at your own expense.

The typical conservative/libertarian view is that   govt can only prohibit and punish actions that harm others -a concept known as "negative law" .  The opposite end of the spectrum is "Positive law", in which  the govt laws mandate certain behavior - things you  <must>  do  to produce  desired "beneficial" societal outcomes-  Robert's decision handed that power to the liberals in spades.

In the conservative view You don't have the right to use your liberty  in such a way that it endangers the "Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness" of others.  You have a right to own a gun. You don't have a right to use one recklessly, and we (in theory) deprive people of that right when they show they will abuse it (say a felon) , or if we feel that they are (more) likely to abuse it (insane).

Libertarians tend to prefer laws that punish only real, identifiable harm. Hence they fell drug use should be legal - even if it increases the possibility that an addicted drug user will commit crimes to feed their habit.  They feel we must wait till there is an identifiable victim before the govt can step in.  However, that means someone may have died during a drug related robbery attempt, so most conservatives favor a "middle ground" further over on the spectrum toward "positive law" -  where the probability of bad results is in included in the calculations of if an activity is considered illegal.  Its an attempt to regulate behavior deemed likely to result in harm to others - "legal endangerment" is the embodiment of this concept .  Consequently, your freedom of speech doesn't include a right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater,  your 2nd amendment right doesn't allow you to fire your gun in the air in a crowded city ( or at all in some places) , and your right to "free movement"  doesn't allow a blind person to get behind  the wheel of a car.

The potential for abuse is there because you are relying on someone's vision and determination of what is "likely" to cause harm- just as positive law relies on someone's view of "what is best for society"  A driver's license is a way to determine who is "likely" to cause harm - the blind, known drunks with DUIs, etc.  Likewise, the requirement for liability insurance  is to protect others in the case that a person who WAS  issued a license has a bad day - a second order protection of the rights of others.

Just because something is a "Right", doesn't mean it can't be restricted to protect the rights of others (especially at the State or local level) , and that is all  the licensing system is supposed to be doing.  Of course, as Radioman pointed out, at other times we (being our govt and system for determining such things) decided the potential harm did not warrant a licensing system  - partly because Horse drawn speeds were more limited, roads were poor and traffic was less.

This difference is really the main dispute between conservatism and libertarianism - and why I typically identify as Conservative and not libertarian.  I do believe that the govt should engage in restricting behavior likely to cause harm, and accept the tradeoff that in certain circumstances a right may be restricted unfairly and for no reason.

Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree about this then.  If you're going to be leaving it to the government to decide what possible way my exercise of my rights *might* infringe on the rights of others because some is "likely to cause harm", you go right on as they restrict your rights "for the common good"; I passed that point some time ago.
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charlesoakwood

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2012, 12:05:07 PM »
Quote
A License is the common  way of trying to ensure that a person behind the wheel is responsible enough to be there and not cause damage.

A license is tax, a fee, a means of enriching the bureaucratic coffers
ensuring their perpetuation.  What kind of test does is one required
to pass in order to receive a license?  A written test, that has no
practical application what so ever.  The driving test, well, it does
confirm that one knows the pedals and mirror.


Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2012, 01:50:29 PM »
Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree about this then.  If you're going to be leaving it to the government to decide what possible way my exercise of my rights *might* infringe on the rights of others because some is "likely to cause harm", you go right on as they restrict your rights "for the common good"; I passed that point some time ago.

Idealism is fine, but Pragmatism ( and we both despise the term as used by liberals) is sometimes required. A blind person should have the same rights as everyone else, but I think we can all agree it would be dangerous to put that person behind the wheel of a car (at least with current tech) Are you saying we should let legally blind people drive until they kill themselves or others and then punish them? Who are we to say what a blind person can and can't reasonably do? Do we have the right to determine a "safe speed" on roads? To prosecute someone for drinking and driving, even though they have caused no injuries or death? At what point can the community over-ride the bad judgement of others for their own safety and self-defense?

The Founders intended local governments ( and not the Fed) to make such decisions, and hoped that reasonable people representing a reasonable constituency would value freedom enough to not take this process too far. And if they did, that you could pick up and move to a "more sane" community elsewhere. Obviously the Kindergarten Left  want to subordinate all individuality to make "people safe" and to make them "do the right thing."  Quite  frankly, I think there should be places they let them do that- and they are welcome to them.  Problem is, they are unwilling to leave us any places where sane people can live without their childish crap.

Child Labor laws, OSHA standards/laws  regarding factory safety, etc have saved lives, but doing so of course comes at a cost- both in freedom and in regulatory compliance.    We we look long enough I am sure we will find similar laws which you don't want gone, because it would allow dangerous behavior. If such things were decided at a community , or even state level, individuals  would all have at least 50 choices, each with its own trade-offs. - Incubators and labs where different things could be tried. 

Ultimately it always comes down to "If Men were Angels, we would need no government." The Founders attempted to create governments and a culture that would do only the minimum required ( the minimum being determined by our elected assemblies) to create reasonable ( reasonable again being determined by the assemblies) provisions to  protect everyone's rights.  To CO's point, there is no saying that the process we create actually helps, vs hinders.  the TSA certainly isn't stopping any terrorists.  Taking away an elderly person's license because they can't pass an eye exam might very well save lives - especially since that person is using property we all have in common - the public roads.

I think a happy medium exists, but it exists at different points for different people. Certain behaviors are "too risky" , and others are not, but  "public safety"  requires that line to be drawn somewhere. The problem is the Liberals insist on using their line everywhere- and that line is pegged at the far end of the totalitarian Positive Law scale.

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2012, 02:11:29 PM »
It's one voter's opinion, from the intarwebs, aka my local forum.

What's wrong, IDP?

Nothing wrong with your post Pan. It was just such blathering idiocy that I was curious as to the origin, sans a link.
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- Thomas Jefferson

Offline John Florida

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2012, 03:16:52 PM »
It's one voter's opinion, from the intarwebs, aka my local forum.

What's wrong, IDP?


  Which idiot said that?
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Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2012, 03:19:15 PM »
It's one voter's opinion, from the intarwebs, aka my local forum.

What's wrong, IDP?


  Which idiot said that?

Mary Mary, quite contrary.

Offline ChrstnHsbndFthr

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Re: Let's mock the brain-dead blithering idiot
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2012, 04:30:36 PM »
I see this as an interesting discussion. In truth, I have no issue with the blind man driving. If he can drive without hurting someone as well as I can, why not?  The issue we have is the prejudgment. The assumption that he will hurt someone. Let us assume a technological device is invented that allows him by sound or other mechanism to "see" as well as I do. Should our laws preemptively deny him the right to drive? Bear in mind that my right to travel, which is not enumerated, but I believe is contained under the 9th amendment, allows me freedom of assembly, freedom of worship, the second amendment, the first amendment, etc. If I cannot travel, I cannot worship, buy a gun, assemble with other political junkies, speak my mind at a public function, etc. 

So how much POWER are we willing to give up to government to say what if such and such happens? Therefore we pass all sorts of laws which limit our freedom and often protect no one.  Is this a good thing, to me as a conservative? No, I do not think so.  I know an entire society that functioned on about 613 laws. Why must we have more than any single man could even READ in a lifetime, much less memorize and obey?
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