Topic: PRISM and Fed spying

[Pandora]

Considering just the IRS alone, leaving aside the others for a moment, is enough to make me irate about what they've done to people with the information they collect.  Connecting some way-back dots, just consider anew the derogatory information that was released about "Joe the Plumber" after his unfortunate encounter with Obongo.

You don't have to be guilty of anything but to just catch the attention of the Feds to have them target you -- and then comb through what they've collected to reduce your life to rubble.

[Libertas]

Sometimes I like to snuff fascists, just for fun, no matter the little letter after their name, no matter what out-of-control alphabet soup government agency they belong to, or what they think they got elected or appointed to, just because I can.  I take unto myself the ultimate power these fascists think they can wrest away from a free people without consequence.

Again, this is said all in fun, of course.

 

[Glock32]

Had this guy gone through "official" whistle blower channels, what would have happened to him would have been exactly what he claims to have heard NSA associates saying about the then-unknown leak: "he should be disappeared"

Part of the reason people seem to be having difficulty seeing this issue with proper clarity is because they have unknowingly digested the fallacious premise that government has "compelling interests" of its very own. Yes, I know it asserts that it does, and certainly behaves as though it does, but it really doesn't. Its "interests" are clearly spelled out for it in the Constitution; its interests are what we tell it its interests are. Not the other way around.

[charlesoakwood]

But with PRISM it's now so much easier.  Just type in Joe the Plumber and all the cross references are there.
...linking to article and image earlier referenced (the image won't come up here - it's a Windows live img whatever that is) - http://ace.mu.nu/archives/340785.php - It's illuminating to this conversation.

"What a nice picture! The analytical engine has arranged everyone neatly, picking out clusters of individuals and also showing both peripheral individuals and-more intriguingly-people who seem to bridge various groups in ways that might perhaps be relevant to national security. Look at that person right in the middle there. Zoom in if you wish. He seems to bridge several groups in an unusual (though perhaps not unique) way. His name is Paul Revere."

[Libertas]

When the weepy Carrot-Faced Boner calls Snowden a traitor, look out.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/06/house-speaker-john-boehner-nsa-leaker-a-traitor/

When Al Franken says all is well, look out.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/06/10/franken-very-well-aware-of-nsa-tracking-phone-records/

When "The Clapper" jokes  “Some of you expressed surprise that I showed up—so many emails to read!”, look out.

http://www.govexec.com/federal-news/fedblog/2013/06/banqueters-and-spying-news-bombshell/64598/?oref=river

When 56% of the people in your nation and morons, look out.

When 45% of the people in your nation comprise the lunatic fringe...lock and load!

http://www.people-press.org/2013/06/10/majority-views-nsa-phone-tracking-as-acceptable-anti-terror-tactic/

When most Repubs and Indys think all is well...you better be able to shoot 360 degrees!!

[trapeze]

Meta data notwithstanding...

The fact of the matter is that the NSA can listen in on any phone conversation that they want.

The NSA can record text messaging at will.

The NSA can record any and all of our internet activity whenever they want.

The NSA can record any and all emails.

The notion that the NSA is supposed to perform the above activities ONLY with the permission of a member of the court is quaint.

[Glock32]

So a majority are a-ok with what the NSA is doing?  That just convinces me more than ever that there will be no stopping this train wreck just in the nick of time. No, we're going to have full blown Soviet style tyranny here. The population of this country deserves nothing better. I guess slavery is the natural state of man after all.

[trapeze]

I would say that today, even with what we have discovered...even though the story is "in the news," a majority are completely ignorant of the story altogether. They could tell you about the latest episode of "Dancing With The Stars" but they have no idea at all about what the NSA is, what they do and why.

Low

Intelligence

Voters

[Predator Don]

Since the whistleblower is considered a traitor and it appears our gov't has no intentions of ending the attack on our Constitutional rights....I really see only one answer and I don't like it or wait and watch.....

 Ole ben was correct. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." I gave up part of my liberty after 911. Like Trap so eloquently stated, I know I trusted GWB  in regards to our safety and believed it necessary to "be safe". I was wrong. So alphabet agencies popped up, ironically, because of the political correct stance "not to profile". So now, we still have the attacks, the deaths and a gov't who has its nose so far up my ass it knows what I just ate.

IMO, there are two scenarios. Scenario #1: We will suffer a major terrorist attack, possibly multiple attacks and My(our) world will be turned upside down, not from the destruction from an attack, but from what my gov't will throw on the people. Who knows what life in America will be like after a major attack. Scenario #2: Is the one I don't like. I think all here know what it is and I don't like it because I don't want to take the first shot. John Boehner is proof the ballot box is not the answer.

Guess either one ends America as I know it....Not that it hasn't already ended.

[IronDioPriest]

Obama has kicked the door open for complete hostility of government toward political opposition.

If this regime used this data mining to learn of a Jihadi plot to blow up an American city, and the destruction of that city would further advance this regime's political agenda, does anyone here feel confident that this regime would in fact step in and stop the attack? Does anyone question whether this regime would allow the attack to occur in an attempt to bring about a desired political outcome?

Tsarnaev.

If this regime used this data mining to learn of a concerted political opposition that had the potential to severely damage its agenda, does anyone here feel confident that this regime would stay its hand, and not use the data against its opposition? Does anyone question whether this regime would use this data to turn government against its opposition?

IRS.

I may be off track, or I may be spot-on. I don't know, and neither does anyone else here. That fact alone should cause us all to consider how we view this revelation of domestic spying and data-mining.

Look at the chart I posted earlier from AoSHQ, showing how "meta-data" showing the intersections and connections between people and groups would have singled out Paul Revere as a threat to the British crown.

Who questions whether King George would have used such data had it been available?

This data will not be used to prevent terrorism. Ultimately, it will be used to protect the regime that seizes power with the will to use the data to keep that power. This data is not being collected to prevent Jihadi attacks. It is being collected to prevent the toppling of a Socialist US regime.

[Glock32]

If this regime used this data mining to learn of a concerted political opposition that had the potential to severely damage its agenda, does anyone here feel confident that this regime would stay its hand, and not use the data against its opposition? Does anyone question whether this regime would use this data to turn government against its opposition?

How far are we from them just launching a Hellfire missile from a drone, and then the official story citing an unfortunate gas leak that caused an explosion when someone flipped a light switch? And I ask this with a straight face because I can plausibly see them doing such things.

I may be off track, or I may be spot-on. I don't know, and neither does anyone else here. That fact alone should cause us all to consider how we view this revelation of domestic spying and data-mining.

Exactly.

Look at the chart I posted earlier from AoSHQ, showing how "meta-data" showing the intersections and connections between people and groups would have singled out Paul Revere as a threat to the British crown.

Today they would just call him a terrorist and that would be good enough for everyone. They'd even be thanked for keeping us safe.

[charlesoakwood]

"Rather than relying on tables, we can make a picture of the relationship between the groups, using the number of shared members as an index of the strength of the link between the seditious groups. Here’s what that looks like."



"And, of course, we can also do that for the links between the people, using our 254x254 “Person by Person” table. Here is what that looks like."

http://kieranhealy.org/files/misc/revere-network-reduced.png

The above link is too big for this page; however, if you can download it
it is a history lesson in itself besides being illustrative of how collecting addresses can convict you.

(Fixed broken link; IDP)

[Pandora]

"Responding to reporters’ questions about the National Security Agency’s massive surveillance efforts, Graham argued that the U.S. government once censored mail.

“In World War II, the mentality of the public was that our whole way of life was at risk, we’re all in. We censored the mail. When you wrote a letter overseas, it got censored. When a letter was written back from the battlefield to home, they looked at what was in the letter to make sure they were not tipping off the enemy,” he said. “If I thought censoring the mail was necessary, I would suggest it, but I don’t think it is.”

Graham also said the “First Amendment right to speak is sacrosanct, but it has limits.” He added that Americans should be more willing to give up certain civil liberties in dangerous times to prevent terrorist attacks."

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/11/lindsey-graham-on-domestic-surveillance-if-i-thought-censoring-the-mail-was-necessary-i-would-suggest-it/?corder=asc#comments

He's a liar.  The only thing he holds sacrosanct is his goddam power and position.

After today's hits, I'm beside myself.

[charlesoakwood]

We did censor foreign correspondence and we probably censored selected domestic correspondence. We also aggressively killed the enemy, young and old, man, woman and child. We were whole heatedly killing them all.  We ain't doin that now Limpsey.

A thing about multiplying matrices is that the order matters. It is not like multiplying two numbers. If instead of multiplying A(AT) we put the transposed matrix first, and do AT(A), then we get a different result. This time, the result is a 7x7 “Organization by Organization” matrix, where the numbers in the cells represent how many people each organization has in common. Here’s what that looks like. Because it is small we can see the whole table.

1           StAndrewsLodge LoyalNine NorthCaucus LongRoomClub TeaParty Bostoncommittee LondonEnemies
2 StAndrewsLodge     -          1             3                      2                 3               0                        5
3 LoyalNine              1          -              5                      0                 5               0                        8
4 NorthCaucus         3          5             -                       8                15              11                     20
5 LongRoomClu b     2          0             8                      -                  1                5                        5
6 TeaParty               3          5            15                     1                  -                5                      10
7 BostonCommittee  0          0            11                      5                  5               -                       14
8 LondonEnemies     5          8            20                      5                10              14                       -

Again, interesting! (I beg to venture.) Instead of seeing how (and which) people are linked by their shared membership in organizations, we see which organizations are linked through the people that belong to them both. People are linked through the groups they belong to. Groups are linked through the people they share. This is the “duality of persons and groups” in the title of Mr Breiger’s article.
 
http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-find-paul-revere/

[Pandora]

I fear my government more than any camel screwing muzzy.
The court they have to go to for warrants is the secret FISA court.

That's the one that enabled the PRISM program.

Time after time they had info to foil plots that didn't involve spying on every one of us.

From the Russian warnings about the Marathon Bombers to the 20th 911 hijacker.

They dropped the ball every time.
Probably on purpose.

Yet they sexually abuse 7 year old girls and 80 year old cancer stricken grandmas. They go after Tea Party and freedom lovers to suppress by fear.

Snowden is a hero

SHOCKER: FISA Court Surveillance Rejections Extremely Rare. “The FISC has declined just 11 of the more than 33,900 surveillance requests made by the government in 33 years, the Wall Street Journal reported Sunday. That’s a rate of .03 percent, which raises questions about just how much judicial oversight is actually being provided.”

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/170506/

[charlesoakwood]

US News - Nine Companies Tied to PRISM, Obama Will Be Smacked With Class-Action Lawsuit Wednesday
AOL, Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, PalTalk, Skype, Yahoo! and Youtube will be named in the suit, attorney says

[Larry] Klayman told U.S. News he will file a second class-action lawsuit Wednesday in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia targeting government officials and each of the nine companies listed in a leaked National Security Agency slideshow as participants in the government's PRISM program.

...the lawsuit against Verizon, which also names as defendants President Barack Obama, Attorney General Eric Holder, NSA director Keith Alexander and federal judge Roger Vinson, the FISA court judge who approved the leaked April order.
...

This should go far, about as far as one of Darrel Issa's shows.

[IronDioPriest]

This should go far, about as far as one of Darrel Issa's shows.

Yup. And if for some reason the suit results in what appears will be accountability... well, there's always the final stop-gap: John Roberts.

[trapeze]

Incredibly, there may be one or two that I have left out and the day isn't over so (hard to believe, but) conceivably a new scandal could emerge at any moment.

I can't believe I forgot to mention:

- The "Fast & Furious" scandal (Holder)
- The Gibson Guitar raid (Fish & Wildlife Service)
- Pigford (USDA)
- Solyndra, et al green energy boondoggles (Energy Dept)
- GM/Chrysler theft of bondholders/shareholder/retirees equity plus forced dealership closures
- Failure to investigate/prosecute New Black Panthers (Holder)
- Fake email accounts (EPA & others)
- Unauthorized military action in Libya (State Dept & Toonces)

And I'm probably still missing one or two but this will have to do for now.

[Libertas]

This should go far, about as far as one of Darrel Issa's shows.

Yup. And if for some reason the suit results in what appears will be accountability... well, there's always the final stop-gap: John Roberts.

That flip-flop on ObamaCare and fanciful penalty-tax rewrite pretty much proves when push comes to shove the PTBs got some pretty damning stuff on little Johnny!

In the end there is only one way to secure our liberty, the Founders gave us the tools and the example.   

[trapeze]

Whoa...one more State Department scandal: Blocking investigation into four dead Hondurans.

HRC had been very busy in that whole coverup thing. Remember when she worked on the Watergate committee?

WASHINGTON — A top State Department official stymied investigators trying to get to the bottom of four killings in Honduras involving DEA agents and local police — yet another revelation from internal memos leaked by a whistleblower claiming a pattern of coverups.

The incident ended in the deaths of two pregnant women and two men last year, after Honduran national police opened fire from a State Department-owned helicopter on a small boat.

Honduran police said drugs were involved, but locals said the boat was full of fishermen. The killings were referenced in a whistleblower memo obtained by The Post.

Lots of dead people with this admin.

I guess that you could also add

- The killing of an American with a drone

to the list but I don't see anything wrong with killing jihadi scum in a war zone even if they happen to hold an American passport. Hard cheese for you, jihadi.