It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum

Topics => Politics/Legislation/Elections => Topic started by: Libertas on June 06, 2013, 07:27:16 AM

Title: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 06, 2013, 07:27:16 AM
SkyNet eavesdropping revealed - Yes Mr/Ms Average American, Your Government is Spying On You!  You Are Not Unreasonably Paranoid! (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/06/us/us-secretly-collecting-logs-of-business-calls.html?hp&_r=1&)

Another reason why I like to conclude every text with "Obama is a Fascist Punk!" and a conversation with "Oh, and f**k Obama!"...

Send in your drones, I dare ya!

 ::rockets::

ETA - And here (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,6332.msg71230.html#msg71230) back in July of last year I thought I caught them spying on me!  I guess I was right!

This needs a topic of its own in the proper thread- Pan.

Title: Re: Weisshaupt's Tin Foil Hat Thread
Post by: AlanS on June 06, 2013, 05:02:34 PM
ETA - And here (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,6332.msg71230.html#msg71230) back in July of last year I thought I caught them spying on me!  I guess I was right!



You're probably at the top of their list. ::laughonfloor::
Title: Re: Weisshaupt's Tin Foil Hat Thread
Post by: Pandora on June 06, 2013, 05:11:43 PM
SkyNet eavesdropping revealed - Yes Mr/Ms Average American, Your Government is Spying On You!  You Are Not Unreasonably Paranoid! (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/06/us/us-secretly-collecting-logs-of-business-calls.html?hp&_r=1&)

Another reason why I like to conclude every text with "Obama is a Fascist Punk!" and a conversation with "Oh, and f**k Obama!"...

Send in your drones, I dare ya!

 ::rockets::

ETA - And here (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,6332.msg71230.html#msg71230) back in July of last year I thought I caught them spying on me!  I guess I was right!

"U.S. Is Secretly Collecting Records of Verizon Calls"
Title: Re: Weisshaupt's Tin Foil Hat Thread
Post by: Predator Don on June 06, 2013, 05:12:42 PM
This certainly is no surprise....My brother works in the banking industry and you would not believe the frequency the feds are there...and guess where their prying eyes are gazing.
Title: Re: Weisshaupt's Tin Foil Hat Thread
Post by: Libertas on June 07, 2013, 06:41:52 AM
Was posted in Trap's "Adobe" thread under the Science section, but merits inclusion here as well - Prism (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-06/meet-prism-us-984xn-us-governments-internet-espionage-super-operation)

Fascists everywhere!  Time to get to the rat-killin' yet?   ::whatgives::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed/NSA spying
Post by: Pandora on June 07, 2013, 06:20:43 PM
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/06/07/obama-gives-testy-defense-of-modest-encroachments-on-privacy/ (http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/06/07/obama-gives-testy-defense-of-modest-encroachments-on-privacy/)

... “it’s important to recognize that you can’t have 100 percent security and also then have 100 percent privacy and zero inconvenience.”

I don't recall demanding 100 percent security from any government but I do demand they get their noses out of my privacy.

"Those Who Sacrifice LibertyFor Security Deserve Neither. He who would tradeliberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

This will not end well.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 07, 2013, 06:43:09 PM

PRISM allows the NSA and the FBI to tap directly "into the central servers of nine leading U.S. Internet companies, extracting audio, video, photographs, e-mails, documents and connection logs that enable analysts to track a person’s movements and contacts over time."

Come on buddy, he just wants a little of your privacy.
                                                                                 He'll take the rest.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed/NSA spying
Post by: benb61 on June 07, 2013, 10:04:29 PM
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/06/07/obama-gives-testy-defense-of-modest-encroachments-on-privacy/ (http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/06/07/obama-gives-testy-defense-of-modest-encroachments-on-privacy/)

... “it’s important to recognize that you can’t have 100 percent security and also then have 100 percent privacy and zero inconvenience.”

I don't recall demanding 100 percent security from any government but I do demand they get their noses out of my privacy.

"Those Who Sacrifice LibertyFor Security Deserve Neither. He who would tradeliberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

This will not end well.

When I heard that on the news today I actually shouted at the TV "I never asked for 100% security and if this is the cost I'll protect my self and my family without your intrusions, but you are making that harder too".
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: trapeze on June 07, 2013, 10:57:02 PM
I've seen several pics that show a morph of O'Bongo and GWB that is supposed to impart some higher meaning to the spy scandal or something.

I thought, though, that a better morph would be of O'Bongo and J. Edgar Hoover. Hoover was said to have had the goods on just about anyone and everyone and because of that he was virtually bulletproof. It was all about power and control with Hoover and O'Bongo is very similar in that regard.

So, I've been looking for an online face morphing site where I can create this thing and have, so far, not found one that works. I'd like to do it two different ways. One where both faces are combined...I don't think that that will be very good since most people probably wouldn't figure it out. The second one would be an animated gif file where the pic starts out as O'Bongo and then becomes J. Edgar Hoover. I think that would be pretty good.

I won't feel at all bad or offended if someone more skilled in the graphical arts does this before I find a way to do it.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed/NSA spying
Post by: warpmine on June 08, 2013, 05:23:03 AM
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/06/07/obama-gives-testy-defense-of-modest-encroachments-on-privacy/ (http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/06/07/obama-gives-testy-defense-of-modest-encroachments-on-privacy/)

... “it’s important to recognize that you can’t have 100 percent security and also then have 100 percent privacy and zero inconvenience.”

I don't recall demanding 100 percent security from any government but I do demand they get their noses out of my privacy.

"Those Who Sacrifice LibertyFor Security Deserve Neither. He who would tradeliberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

This will not end well.

When I heard that on the news today I actually shouted at the TV "I never asked for 100% security and if this is the cost I'll protect my self and my family without your intrusions, but you are making that harder too".
Would anybody dare to mention the massive influx of Scuzzlims that he keeps the door wide open for. Of course as is the case with all leftist policy, first, you create the problem then you solve it by usurping liberty. Is anyone really surprised by this? Want to improve security the solution is pretty simple, deport this self proclaimed enemy and most of that security wouldn't be necessary. Yes, it really is that simple. Where can we find these assholes that keep preaching this bullchit concept of culture diversity so that I may hit them over the head with it a few hundred times.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 08, 2013, 08:11:36 AM
When the government that breaches the spirit of the Declaration that established our rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and undermines or outright destroys the Constitution and our rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights...and refuses to peacefully end their oppression...well...we are where the Founders were with the British...and real Patriots are coming up short...and that sickens me like I've never felt before.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed/NSA spying
Post by: Predator Don on June 08, 2013, 08:47:07 AM
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/06/07/obama-gives-testy-defense-of-modest-encroachments-on-privacy/ (http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/06/07/obama-gives-testy-defense-of-modest-encroachments-on-privacy/)

... “it’s important to recognize that you can’t have 100 percent security and also then have 100 percent privacy and zero inconvenience.”

I don't recall demanding 100 percent security from any government but I do demand they get their noses out of my privacy.

"Those Who Sacrifice LibertyFor Security Deserve Neither. He who would tradeliberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

This will not end well.


LOL...I remember the debate in 2006 and Obama was on the other side of it. "Elect me President and I'll end all the bad Bush stuff". Reality is he injected it with steroids.
Title: Allegation of NSA Whistleblower: Petraeus taken down by illegal surveillance
Post by: IronDioPriest on June 08, 2013, 09:15:15 AM
NSA Whistleblower: Obama Took Down General Petraeus By Using Illegal Surveillance (Video) (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/06/nsa-whistleblower-obama-took-down-general-petraeus-by-illegal-surveillance-video/)

William Binney, whistleblower and former NSA crypto-mathematician who served in the agency for decades, said the David Petraeus sex scandal was most likely exposed using illegal surveillance of his email. (video @ link)
Title: Allegation Of NSA Whistleblower: Petraeus Taken Down By Illegal Surveillance
Post by: trapeze on June 08, 2013, 11:34:15 PM
Yeah, this thing keeps getting better and better. I find it immensely funny that when this whole thing (scandalpalooza) kicked off we had it juxtaposed with President Toonces giving his little speech about how no one should listen to people who say that you shouldn't trust the government.

So I was watching "Batman Begins" tonight and this quote kind of stood out:

Quote
Ra's al Ghul: Only a cynical man would call what these people have "lives," Wayne. Crime, despair... this is not how man was supposed to live. The League of Shadows has been a check against human corruption for thousands of years. We sacked Rome, loaded trade ships with plague rats, burned London to the ground. Every time a civilization reaches the pinnacle of its decadence, we return to restore the balance.

Are we there yet?
Title: Re: Allegation Of NSA Whistleblower: Petraeus Taken Down By Illegal Surveillance
Post by: warpmine on June 09, 2013, 09:38:51 AM
Yeah, this thing keeps getting better and better. I find it immensely funny that when this whole thing (scandalpalooza) kicked off we had it juxtaposed with President Toonces giving his little speech about how no one should listen to people who say that you shouldn't trust the government.

So I was watching "Batman Begins" tonight and this quote kind of stood out:

Quote
Ra's al Ghul: Only a cynical man would call what these people have "lives," Wayne. Crime, despair... this is not how man was supposed to live. The League of Shadows has been a check against human corruption for thousands of years. We sacked Rome, loaded trade ships with plague rats, burned London to the ground. Every time a civilization reaches the pinnacle of its decadence, we return to restore the balance.

Are we there yet?
Yes, we're here at the moment. Unfortunately, it's just fantasy. Want something done, we best get to it and proceed.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 09, 2013, 12:32:23 PM
SkyNet eavesdropping revealed - Yes Mr/Ms Average American, Your Government is Spying On You!  You Are Not Unreasonably Paranoid! (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/06/us/us-secretly-collecting-logs-of-business-calls.html?hp&_r=1&)

Another reason why I like to conclude every text with "Obama is a Fascist Punk!" and a conversation with "Oh, and f**k Obama!"...

Send in your drones, I dare ya!

 ::rockets::

ETA - And here (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,6332.msg71230.html#msg71230) back in July of last year I thought I caught them spying on me!  I guess I was right!

This needs a topic of its own in the proper thread- Pan.



WaPo (http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html) - An internal presentation on the Silicon Valley operation, intended for senior analysts in the NSA’s Signals Intelligence Directorate, described the new tool as the most prolific contributor to the President’s Daily Brief, which cited PRISM data in 1,477 articles last year. According to the briefing slides, obtained by The Washington Post, “NSA reporting increasingly relies on PRISM” as its leading source of raw material, accounting for nearly 1 in 7 intelligence reports

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/06/PRISM%204_0.jpg)

Whew, good thing he doesn't read those reports.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Alphabet Soup on June 09, 2013, 01:13:44 PM
I had another interesting exchange with my brother.

When the topic turned to PRISM and the HNIC spying and terrorizing American citizens I shrugged it off. When he insisted on knowing why I wasn't frothing (like he was) I simply said:

"The nigger is gonna do whatever he wants because he is encountering zero resistance from the pubbies. That leaves me to defend my own. I've done nothing wrong - I've only told it like it is - so I have God on my side. The terrorists are smothering under the weight of the data they've collected against the innocents and the chances of them showing up at my door are infinitesimal. Oh, by the way, I've also planned for the fractional disparity."

"Bring it."
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 09, 2013, 01:15:11 PM
And these have no problem with the continued lying either: (http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/06/08/Obama-corruption-spreads-like-a-cancer)

Quote
I thought all those highly specific denials about giving the government "direct access to servers" or creating "back doors" were fishy. 

Sure enough, by Friday evening the New York Times had them all walking back Friday morning's passionate denials and "conceding" they were in on it.

    “The U.S. government does not have direct access or a ‘back door’ to the information stored in our data centers,” Google’s chief executive, Larry Page, and its chief legal officer, David Drummond, said in a statement on Friday. “We provide user data to governments only in accordance with the law.”

    Statements from Microsoft, Yahoo, Facebook, Apple, AOL and Paltalk made the same distinction.

    But instead of adding a back door to their servers, the companies were essentially asked to erect a locked mailbox and give the government the key, people briefed on the negotiations said. Facebook, for instance, built such a system for requesting and sharing the information, they said.

    The data shared in these ways, the people said, is shared after company lawyers have reviewed the FISA request according to company practice. It is not sent automatically or in bulk, and the government does not have full access to company servers. Instead, they said, it is a more secure and efficient way to hand over the data.

I'm waiting for a more detailed report on them hoovering credit card data as well.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 09, 2013, 01:39:45 PM

"I'm waiting for a more detailed report on them hoovering credit card data as well."

Ditto that, I think they are sucking it all up then on their curiosity do a key word search.  And one small edit: "the companies were essentially asked to erect a locked mailbox dropbox and give the government the key, people briefed on the negotiations said." ...Instead, they said, it is a more secure and efficient way to hand over the data.  Oh fer sure, you betcha, more efficient, ya.  Let the company sort out the info, why a govt dufass when you can sub it out to a conscientious employee for free.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: trapeze on June 09, 2013, 01:53:08 PM
Whether it is phone data or credit card data it seems that there is absolutely no reason why potentially damaging information about a specific person or persons could not find its way into the hands of one's political (or actual) enemy. It already has with IRS data.

That is the really big deal and no one is going to care about it happening to someone else. It will only hit home when they, themselves, are affected. For instance, we should see quite a bit of backlash against DumbassCare when the fines/taxes are imposed on those without approved health insurance plans.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: trapeze on June 09, 2013, 03:55:58 PM
Whistleblower comes forward.

And he's in communist China hiding out.

Wow...brave and yet stupid.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Glock32 on June 09, 2013, 04:49:12 PM
Even if you were to accept the phony argument that it's no big deal because "if you've got nothing to hide", that defense falls flat on the fact that government databases routinely end up exposing personal information of people through either incompetence or deliberate leaking.

How can anyone trust government to do anything? If the government says it's sunny you damn well better bring an umbrella.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: warpmine on June 09, 2013, 07:19:09 PM
Even if you were to accept the phony argument that it's no big deal because "if you've got nothing to hide", that defense falls flat on the fact that government databases routinely end up exposing personal information of people through either incompetence or deliberate leaking.

How can anyone trust government to do anything? If the government says it's sunny you damn well better bring an umbrella.
Pertaining to this regime, I only trust it f**k up everything that was good and decent.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Alphabet Soup on June 09, 2013, 07:53:59 PM
Whistleblower comes forward.

And he's in communist China hiding out.

Wow...brave and yet stupid.

He's 29 - still an idealistic puppy. I bet he's doing some serious "who really are the bad guys" thinking right about now...
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 09, 2013, 09:36:39 PM

According to Clemons (https://twitter.com/SCClemons/status/343392529913356289), four men sitting near him were discussing an intelligence conference they had just attended, and turned to the topic of the NSA leaks. One said that both the reporter and leaker should be “disappeared,” a term used to describe secret murders and abductions carried out by authoritarian governments. Clemons said on Twitter the suggestion seemed to be “bravado” and a “disturbing joke.” He said that the officials were talking loudly, “almost bragging.”
(https://twitter.com/SCClemons/status/343440037695873024)

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 09, 2013, 09:54:33 PM

Uh Oh, the Fox is in the hen house and the hens are all a twitter.

Breitbart (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/09/Snooping-Concerns-Emerge-Over-Congressional-Blackberries-Serviced-By-Verizon) - “I have grave concerns over the privacy of communications between staff and their member of Congress. All of our communications go through Verizon or ATT to reach our Blackberries." The staffer added, "Through a blanket seizing of these communications, the NSA is permanently intercepting and storing privileged material. This rasies further constitutional issues regarding separation of powers."
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 09, 2013, 10:16:10 PM

Uh Oh, the Fox is in the hen house and the hens are all a twitter.

Breitbart (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/09/Snooping-Concerns-Emerge-Over-Congressional-Blackberries-Serviced-By-Verizon) - “I have grave concerns over the privacy of communications between staff and their member of Congress. All of our communications go through Verizon or ATT to reach our Blackberries." The staffer added, "Through a blanket seizing of these communications, the NSA is permanently intercepting and storing privileged material. This rasies further constitutional issues regarding separation of powers."


Remember, the Gubmint Man refused to answer Congress if it was spying on them.  Gosh, I wonder why?

O/T - We should set up a IAL Lexicon thread, we got some good new ones!

'Soup - "fractional disparity".   ::thumbsup::

Trap - "DumbassCare"   ::thumbsup::

And for anybody getting zapped by prism - "Prism'd"!

And remember, the government could use this data to extort...and hell they don't even have to have anything...just the suggestion they do (or can make something up) could do the trick!

The Untouchables (10/10) Movie CLIP - Here Endeth the Lesson (1987) HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVz211iI26o#ws)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: trapeze on June 10, 2013, 12:55:49 AM
Via the AoS ONT here is a link (http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/how-to-keep-your-communications-private/)f to Legal Insurrection's collection of privacy tools...


Quote
In light of the recent hubbub about the NSA having access to pretty much all your communications, the first question seems to be not “How can they do that?” because let’s face it…they aren’t supposed to.  You know it and I know it.  The question is not even “Do they CARE that they aren’t supposed to be doing this?” because they don’t.  The only real question is “How can I stop them from doing it to me?”

That is what this post is all about–making your communications secure from prying eyes.

We get it, Joe Citizen.  You want your privacy.  You want to be able to talk on the internet without everyone and their mother at the InsertAlphabetAgencyHere looking at it.

You’re mad about the NSA snooping.  You aren’t advocating a violent overthrow of the government.

You’re not running a domestic terrorism group (well, there are those new DHS criteria…).  You’re not even sending around emails
about what a dismal failure President Obama’s administration is (THIS hour, anyway).  You just want to be able to chat with friends, conduct your financial business, and argue with your spouse without Big Daddy Gummint all up in your biz.  Believe it or not, that’s your right.

Harry “Who Cares” Reid may blow it off and say the government’s been “doing that stuff for years,”but we’ve got a news flash for Harry: just because you’ve been doing it a while doesn’t make it any more okay.  Ask Ted Bundy … oh, wait.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Sectionhand on June 10, 2013, 05:47:36 AM
Whistleblower comes forward.

And he's in communist China hiding out.

Wow...brave and yet stupid.

He's 29 - still an idealistic puppy. I bet he's doing some serious "who really are the bad guys" thinking right about now...

There's a lot about this guy's "background" which doesn't pass the smell test .
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 10, 2013, 06:43:21 AM
Via the AoS ONT here is a link (http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/how-to-keep-your-communications-private/)f to Legal Insurrection's collection of privacy tools...


Quote
In light of the recent hubbub about the NSA having access to pretty much all your communications, the first question seems to be not “How can they do that?” because let’s face it…they aren’t supposed to.  You know it and I know it.  The question is not even “Do they CARE that they aren’t supposed to be doing this?” because they don’t.  The only real question is “How can I stop them from doing it to me?”

That is what this post is all about–making your communications secure from prying eyes.

We get it, Joe Citizen.  You want your privacy.  You want to be able to talk on the internet without everyone and their mother at the InsertAlphabetAgencyHere looking at it.

You’re mad about the NSA snooping.  You aren’t advocating a violent overthrow of the government.

You’re not running a domestic terrorism group (well, there are those new DHS criteria…).  You’re not even sending around emails
about what a dismal failure President Obama’s administration is (THIS hour, anyway).  You just want to be able to chat with friends, conduct your financial business, and argue with your spouse without Big Daddy Gummint all up in your biz.  Believe it or not, that’s your right.

Harry “Who Cares” Reid may blow it off and say the government’s been “doing that stuff for years,”but we’ve got a news flash for Harry: just because you’ve been doing it a while doesn’t make it any more okay.  Ask Ted Bundy … oh, wait.


Good link.  We've probably passed the point at which everyone should have been using these tools, but, perhaps later is still better than not.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: RickZ on June 10, 2013, 06:46:54 AM
There's a lot about this guy's "background" which doesn't pass the smell test .

More than a lot is fishy about his background.  95% is fishy.  The holder of a GED who worked as a security guard all of a sudden has a $200K a year tech job?  In Hawaii?  I know America is the Land of Opportunity but sheesh!

From Doug Ross, via GateWayPundit, here's his resume.

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-resume-of-nsa-whistleblower-edward.html (http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-resume-of-nsa-whistleblower-edward.html)

Quote
No, let’s examine the reported resume of Snowden (dates are estimated):

• Raised in Elizabeth City, North Carolina and later moved to Maryland.

• Attended a community college, but never completed his coursework and never graduated from high school.

• 2003-2004: U.S. Army, discharged after training accident

• 2005: NSA, Security Guard, University of Maryland.

• 2006: CIA, IT security.

• 2007-2009: CIA, diplomatic cover, Switzerland.

• 2009-2013: NSA Contractor, Dell and later Booz Allen Hamilton.

• Salary: around $200,000.

What? Seriously? So a guy who never even graduated from high school (he later reportedly earned a G.E.D.) and started his professional career as a security guard, got hired by a couple of defense contractors and — at age 29 — was making $200K a year?

If this story is true, I don't know what's more bizarre: the leak itself or the sheer profligacy of the federal spending machine.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 10, 2013, 06:57:32 AM
Whistleblower comes forward.

And he's in communist China hiding out.

Wow...brave and yet stupid.

He's 29 - still an idealistic puppy. I bet he's doing some serious "who really are the bad guys" thinking right about now...

There's a lot about this guy's "background" which doesn't pass the smell test .

Like what?

Like a contractor for Booz Allen Hamilton and Dell came into this knowledge?

I am thinking he is likely a willing proxy for somebody much higher in the food chain.

Like how he got these documents?

Again, the story line seems very weak, again, likely BS to cover his real source.

Like fleeing to Hong Kong, instead of a better non-extradition treaty nation?

Oh, becuase most of the other non-extradition treaty nations are sh*tholes...like most of Africa.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_countries_have_no_extradition_treaties_with_the_United_States (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_countries_have_no_extradition_treaties_with_the_United_States)

ETA - "If this story is true, I don't know what's more bizarre: the leak itself or the sheer profligacy of the federal spending machine." - RickZ

Yeah, we haven't seen any evidence of profligate spending.

I say this guy was recruited and compensated to do exactly what he did by a big fish upstream.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: RickZ on June 10, 2013, 07:11:34 AM
One interesting comment at Doug Ross:

Quote
This "Edward Snowden" is a snow job. The name is fake, a computer-generated one, with the repeating letters w-d-e. Repeating clusters of letters common in computer-generated names, which is also the thumbprint all over the Sandy Hook hoax. The guy's presentation is rehearsed. He is an actor, and not a very good one.

Don't know how true that is as I've never worked with any random name generating programs.  But I do find it odd that you have EDWard snoWDEn.  My belief in coincidences is fast approaching zero.

I have no idea what the Sandy Hook comment means.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 10, 2013, 11:31:57 AM
One interesting comment at Doug Ross:

Quote
This "Edward Snowden" is a snow job. The name is fake, a computer-generated one, with the repeating letters w-d-e. Repeating clusters of letters common in computer-generated names, which is also the thumbprint all over the Sandy Hook hoax. The guy's presentation is rehearsed. He is an actor, and not a very good one.

Don't know how true that is as I've never worked with any random name generating programs.  But I do find it odd that you have EDWard snoWDEn.  My belief in coincidences is fast approaching zero.

I have no idea what the Sandy Hook comment means.

Fits my theory.

As to the Sandy Hook stuff...I know there is dispute over early reports about an AR, if it was in the school, left in the car...

IW has this about still no report and shady goings on in covering up evidence -

http://www.infowars.com/six-months-on-and-still-no-sandy-hook-report/ (http://www.infowars.com/six-months-on-and-still-no-sandy-hook-report/)

http://www.infowars.com/state-of-connecticut-crafts-special-act-to-hide-sandy-hook-evidence/ (http://www.infowars.com/state-of-connecticut-crafts-special-act-to-hide-sandy-hook-evidence/)

 ::saywhat::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: warpmine on June 10, 2013, 12:29:54 PM
That would be hard covering up this time as far as weapon choice was, we have pics of him with the AR with traditional upper with handle. and hundreds of witnesses. I'm want to see why the mental illness thing never made it to the background check or like everything else, it was secured because he was underage at the time. Seems to me that an individual that has serious anger issues with propensity to do harm to others is a risk for possession of any type of firearm.

Next up, his mother. Didn't she know her son having a firearm or two be a problem for someone with anger problems. They said he was angry at the father and parents in general for divorce so why go out an kill indiscriminately after you've offed your parents and brother. Chances are, he's the sole reason the separation came about, but we'll have to wait to see if court willing to release reasoning for divorce.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 10, 2013, 02:59:53 PM

Backgrounder:
                          Wired (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1); 03.15.12, 7:24 PM - Rather than Bibles, prophets, and worshippers, this temple will be filled with servers, computer intelligence experts, and armed guards. And instead of listening for words flowing down from heaven, these newcomers will be secretly capturing, storing, and analyzing vast quantities of words and images hurtling through the world’s telecommunications networks. In the little town of Bluffdale, Big Love and Big Brother have become uneasy neighbors
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 10, 2013, 08:01:49 PM
Spontaneous mass outbreak of arson...burn the sumbich down.

Would the Sons of Liberty of Yore do any less in their day?
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 10, 2013, 08:10:44 PM
Dude pulled another Claude Rains?

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/u-whistleblower-drops-sight-faces-legal-battle-192837160.html (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/u-whistleblower-drops-sight-faces-legal-battle-192837160.html)

James (Syphilis) Clapper, the director of national intelligence, told NBC that the Fleaks Federal Government spy programs on its citizens "violate a sacred trust for this country. The damage that these revelations incur do to the people and the Constitution is are huge catastrophic.  The citizens of the United States have every right, nay, the duty, to end this madness by any means necessary!"

FIFY fothermucker!
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: warpmine on June 10, 2013, 08:45:53 PM
"I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things ... I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded," Snowden told the Guardian, which published the video interview with him, dated June 6, on its website.
1) You don't have to live in this society at all, you can go somewhere else.
and
2) You may not have a choice in the matter, your life means as much to Onegroid as the pos he disposed of in Yemen with drone strike.

I'm personally split on this action. Was it heroic or betrayal?

I hate what our government has morphed into.
I hate traitors.
I love it when somebody gives Obama a black eye.
WTF was he put into a position where he could do this?

I suppose all in all, i couldn't give a rat's sh*t at this point what happens as everything she does is an affront to God. Baby murdering, sexual deviancy, Satan worshipping socialists that care more about how I don't live to their expectations than protecting me from the Muslim horde they keep shipping over from Sandniggerdom.

My response to the US government is, wait for it........

 ::effu::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: ChrstnHsbndFthr on June 10, 2013, 11:21:34 PM
I was split on this too. Now I am convinced that although this man may have thought he did right, he did not. There are methods that can be actual whistle blower routes if you believe something is illegal. You are not required to do it. What he did damaged intelligence collection. ALL THREE branches were involved in the oversight.  I am still open to new information, but with what I know now, this young man may have unwittingly betrayed his country.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 10, 2013, 11:39:44 PM
I was split on this too. Now I am convinced that although this man may have thought he did right, he did not. There are methods that can be actual whistle blower routes if you believe something is illegal. You are not required to do it. What he did damaged intelligence collection. ALL THREE branches were involved in the oversight.  I am still open to new information, but with what I know now, this young man may have unwittingly betrayed his country.
ChrstnHsbndFthr, your thoughts catalyzed mine. I'm not attempting to rebut you, just express what's come together. Thanks.
 
I must go with, there's too much intelligence collection and the collectors are evil.
It's none of their business. Collecting any information on law abiding US citizens is corrupt and un-American, it facilitates nothing but their political agenda.  They are virtually ransacking our personal possessions and papers.  And their new defense -
if you're not doing anything wrong why do you care, Is police state 101.  They can take their little computers and direct them toward Iran, China, Russia and other dedicated enemies or they can go to hell.

Furthermore, going through allied nations computers is no less than violating their sovereignty without the boots.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: IronDioPriest on June 10, 2013, 11:43:43 PM
The fact that all three branches were involved in erecting a system whereby personal privacy has been essentially destroyed gives me no cause to find moral fault with this young man.

Government has no moral authority. It should, but it does not. Legally, Snowden may or may not have been in the wrong. Morally - barring the introduction of new evidence - I think he is potentially the greatest hero of our time.

A country where Barack Hussein Obama is free and Edward Snowden's liberty is in question is a country with no justice, government run amok, and laws subject to the whims of men, with no tether to principle.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 11, 2013, 12:06:50 AM

All you need is love. Yat da dat ta da

Candidate Obama debates President Obama on Government Surveillance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BmdovYztH8#ws)

Ya, a whole lotta love for that sumbich.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: ChrstnHsbndFthr on June 11, 2013, 12:21:16 AM
Knowledge is not evil, in and of itself. The issue as I see it is preserving the knowledge so it can be looked into later, IF the courts grant that it is necessary, as properly defined in the constitution.  If that is being done, within constitutional limits, what complaint do I have that overcomes law?  The rule of law is important, and the constitution the highest of laws of men. What right does any single man have to put himself above that law? None, to my way of thinking. That would make him Obama. He opposed Obama on this. I am slightly uncomfortable that Ron Paul is supporting this young man, but RP is not wrong on EVERYTHING....just mostly.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Predator Don on June 11, 2013, 12:58:06 AM
I don't consider recording everything I say as knowledge. It reminds me of commerce clause abuse to do your bidding and finding a judge to find it constitutional.

There is no "limit" here. It is an unlimited recording program. If this type of abuse can be even considered constitutional, then there are no rules.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: warpmine on June 11, 2013, 04:36:39 AM
I was split on this too. Now I am convinced that although this man may have thought he did right, he did not. There are methods that can be actual whistle blower routes if you believe something is illegal. You are not required to do it. What he did damaged intelligence collection. ALL THREE branches were involved in the oversight.  I am still open to new information, but with what I know now, this young man may have unwittingly betrayed his country.
.....and all three branches failed at the main goal of the constitution which is to protect our rights. Did you fail to understand that simple charge form the Founding Fathers?

BTW, I might be in that group. As of late , my country has betrayed me and everything else it stood for in the Constitution. You of all people should understand that God is supreme, not the state.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Sectionhand on June 11, 2013, 06:06:47 AM
The fact that all three branches were involved in erecting a system whereby personal privacy has been essentially destroyed ...

Add Obamacare to that ... forcibly taking our personal medical records and placing them in a central government data base . It's ALL about control !
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 11, 2013, 06:35:14 AM
Knowledge is not evil, in and of itself. The issue as I see it is preserving the knowledge so it can be looked into later, IF the courts grant that it is necessary, as properly defined in the constitution.  If that is being done, within constitutional limits, what complaint do I have that overcomes law?  The rule of law is important, and the constitution the highest of laws of men. What right does any single man have to put himself above that law? None, to my way of thinking. That would make him Obama. He opposed Obama on this. I am slightly uncomfortable that Ron Paul is supporting this young man, but RP is not wrong on EVERYTHING....just mostly.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Where is the probable cause, and what is it, regarding each and every one of us, to collect and store the data that they are?  Where are the Warrants with our names on them as specified in the 4th Amendment?   And this gross -- GROSS -- violation of "the right of the people" is deemed necessary for *our* security, when they invite into our country and our government, and succor and cosset, the very ones by whom we are threatened? 

Now you want to accuse Snowdon of putting himself above the law, when what Warpmine states is THE issue:  all three branches of government colluded to violate the Constitution -- and don't talk to me about the law -- and the privacy of each and every one of us?

Oh hell no.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 11, 2013, 07:14:00 AM
What would have happened to Snowden if he tried to come forward using the system?  Maybe nothing, but his information would have never seen the light of day.  he would never have been allowed to enter a congressional hearing.  Under the Patriot Act and succeeding acts he would have been detained indefinitely.  I still say he is the voice for someone higher up the food chain, perhaps the only higher echelon mover interested in protecting the people and their rights within the confines of the constitution.  Let us for arguments sake Snowden did break the law, fine, if breaking the law to defend a higher principle embedded in our most sacred law is the only way to have a chance at saving the whole then that is a crime worth doing time for.  The real crimes are being done to us every minute of every day and with little outcry...and the guilty are still at it.  Couch it in terms of right and wrong, moral and immoral, evil and righteous...the conclusion is the same...government right now is wrong, immoral and evil.  Fight it or don't fight it, there is no middle ground.

New info here, ZH has Booz Allan and its ties to the Carlyle Group...a who's who of movers and shakers...Big Government types...the kind of Pubbies that do business with their Big Government counterparts in the DemonRat pack...give us the kind of bloated bureaucracy and intrusiveness that gives every Obamite a major jones to assault those on their enemy lists.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-10/911-prismgate-how-carlyle-group-lbod-worlds-secrets (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-10/911-prismgate-how-carlyle-group-lbod-worlds-secrets)

Isn't it swell to see Big Govt crony capitalists and Big Govt pol's working hand-in-hand to undermine our freedom and liberty?  Doesn't that just fill your heart with patriots pride?!

I'm pretty sure that swelling feeling I am experiencing is pure righteous rage!!!

You?!
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: IronDioPriest on June 11, 2013, 07:20:59 AM
Knowledge is not evil, in and of itself. The issue as I see it is preserving the knowledge so it can be looked into later, IF the courts grant that it is necessary, as properly defined in the constitution.  If that is being done, within constitutional limits, what complaint do I have that overcomes law?  The rule of law is important, and the constitution the highest of laws of men. What right does any single man have to put himself above that law? None, to my way of thinking. That would make him Obama. He opposed Obama on this. I am slightly uncomfortable that Ron Paul is supporting this young man, but RP is not wrong on EVERYTHING....just mostly.

You seem to be saying that collecting this kind of data is not equivalent to using it, am I right? If so, I give you this graphic illustration and its explanation to highlight why I think you're wrong...

Quote
So What Can You Find Out With Metadata?

A lot more than you think. Your social and financial interactions and internet activity pretty much define your personal world.

And if the British had been a bit more savvy in ye olde social networke theory and had a rudimentary analytical engine (or perhaps a team of mentats), it would have been dead simple to identify a Mr. Paul Revere as a critical person among the colonial rabble rousers.

And by rounding up a handful of other nodal pre-traitors they could have nipped the whole insurrection in the bud.

(http://ace.mu.nu/Windows-Live-Writer/Overnight-Open-Threa_EF13/revere-network-reduced_snip_4.png)


What a nice picture! The analytical engine has arranged everyone neatly, picking out clusters of individuals and also showing both peripheral individuals and-more intriguingly-people who seem to bridge various groups in ways that might perhaps be relevant to national security. Look at that person right in the middle there. Zoom in if you wish. He seems to bridge several groups in an unusual (though perhaps not unique) way. His name is Paul Revere.

Once again, I remind you that I know nothing of Mr Revere, or his conversations, or his habits or beliefs, his writings (if he has any) or his personal life. All I know is this bit of metadata, based on membership in some organizations. And yet my analytical engine, on the basis of absolutely the most elementary of operations in Social Networke Analysis, seems to have picked him out of our 254 names as being of unusual interest.

...At the present time, alas, the technology required to automatically collect the required information is beyond our capacity. But I say again, if a mere scribe such as I-one who knows nearly nothing-can use the very simplest of these methods to pick the name of a traitor like Paul Revere from those of two hundred and fifty four other men, using nothing but a list of memberships and a portable calculating engine, then just think what weapons we might wield in the defense of liberty one or two centuries from now.

CHF, we do not have the obligation to obey laws that are not just, moral, or constitutional. Our obligations as chartered by our Declaration of Independence insist that it is our duty to resist, not obey.

Unless new evidence comes to light, Snowden resisted tyranny. That is just.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 11, 2013, 08:11:20 AM
Eye on the ball:

A senior U.S. intelligence official on Monday said there were no plans to scrap the programs that, despite the backlash, continue to receive widespread if cautious support within Congress. The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive security issue. (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130611/DA6RDBKO2.html)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 11, 2013, 08:16:21 AM
Big Govt boys of all stripes rallying around each other...

..time to surround them and lop all the heads off these snakes!
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 11, 2013, 08:39:22 AM
A concise summary (http://takimag.com/article/the_week_that_perished_june_10_takimag/print#axzz2VhYRwh99) (if this has been posted elsewhere, mea culpa):

"Last Wednesday, the Guardian published a formerly top-secret court order from April requiring telecommunications giant Verizon to fork over to the National Security Administration “all call detail records or ‘telephony metadata’ created by Verizon for communications between the United States and abroad” as well as all calls “wholly within the United States, including local telephone calls” for a three-month period. Verizon hosts approximately 100 million customers who generate about a billion calls daily, all of which was being vacuumed up into government databases. (Former NSA employee gone rogue William Binney has told the Associated Press that the agency gathers records on up to three billion calls daily.)

On Thursday it was revealed that fellow telecom titans AT&T and Sprint, as well as credit-card companies, are also part of the massive surveillance initiative. It was subsequently disclosed that the recent three-month order affecting Verizon has been part of an ongoing NSA policy that has been renewed every quarter for the past seven years. Verizon officials declined to comment because they are under a gag order.

Although the court order covered only the calls’ “metadata” rather than the calls themselves, its has already been alleged that NSA officials eavesdrop on American citizens, sometimes for fun (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5987804&page=1#.UbcmyZwqjew).

The follow-up punch came on Thursday with the revelation that the NSA has been tapping into user data from nine of the world’s largest tech corporations. The formerly top-secret program, code-named PRISM, allegedly started in December 2007 when Microsoft—who are running an ad campaign with the tagline “Your privacy is our priority”—signed on, followed in order by Yahoo!, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, YouTube, Skype, AOL, and Apple. (To its credit, Twitter has reportedly refused to join the herd.) The program gives the federal government access to users’ audio, video, chats, photographs, social-network details, and email. It has resulted in nearly 80,000 intelligence reports.

One by one, the companies allegedly involved in the PRISM program denied any knowledge of its existence, presumably for legal reasons. It remains unclear whether PRISM allowed the NSA direct access to the companies’ servers—as was initially reported—or whether they were obtaining information that companies provided to them as a result of specific requests.

On Thursday, scrotum-faced Director of National Intelligence James Clapper deemed the PRISM leak to be “reprehensible,” claiming the program was designed to “protect our nation from a wide variety of threats,” which presumably doesn’t include the threat of the federal government using technology to track its own citizens like a psychopathic stalker. Jeremy Bash, chief of staff to former CIA Director Leon Panetta, defended the program’s breadth thusly: “If you’re looking for a needle in the haystack, you need a haystack.” We are left to assume that so-called “terrorists” are needles, while everyone else is merely hay.

US Senators seemed to shrug, yawn, and wonder what the fuss was all about. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) bemoaned America’s “culture of leaks” while offering a passive-aggressive “We’re always open to changes, but that doesn’t mean that there will be any.” Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) said “This is nothing particularly new.” Lindsey Graham (R-SC) assured Americans that “We don’t have anything to worry about,” adding, “I’m a Verizon customer. It doesn’t bother me one bit for the NSA to have my phone number.” And Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) awoke from his slumber to say that “Everyone should just calm down.”

On Friday, Barack Obama, whose administration has prosecuted more alleged leakers than all his predecessors combined, claimed that “every member of Congress has been briefed” on the telephone surveillance program, which according to some members of Congress is not true. Obama added, “In the abstract you can complain about Big Brother and how this is a program run amok, but when you actually look at the details, I think we’ve struck the right balance.” Last month Obama delivered a commencement address at Ohio State University that included the following admonition:

    Unfortunately you’ve grown up hearing voices that incessantly warn of government as nothing more than some separate, sinister entity that’s at the root of all of our problems. Some of these same voices do their best to gum up the works. They’ll warn that tyranny is always lurking just around the corner. You should reject these voices.

... The public has now been informed that we’re all merely fleas under a huge federal magnifying glass. Every breath we take, every move we make, they’re watching us. Welcome to the Panopticon, whether you like it or not. It’s not as if you have a choice in the matter, at least not in this “democracy.” More and more it becomes evident that “hate speech” is whatever the government hates and that “terrorism” is whatever scares the powers that be."

H/T American Digest

Make sure to click on that "sometimes for fun" link.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: RickZ on June 11, 2013, 09:40:13 AM
I was split on this too. Now I am convinced that although this man may have thought he did right, he did not. There are methods that can be actual whistle blower routes if you believe something is illegal. You are not required to do it. What he did damaged intelligence collection. ALL THREE branches were involved in the oversight.  I am still open to new information, but with what I know now, this young man may have unwittingly betrayed his country.

I disagree with the bolded.  Remember, Eric the Red is in charge of the DoJ.  Besides, this administration goes after whistle blowers who say anything against the Admin but are more than willing to leak info the Admin finds useful.  I do feel Snowden was placed in a moral zugzwang position with tough no-win choices.

Here's my $.02:  Snowden broke the law for supposedly good reasons.  I'm happy he did, but he broke the law.  He should be charged and let a jury decide, not Holder or Obama.

There's too much precedent being set by the Admin as it is and not prosecuting Snowden sets a really bad 'National Security leaks are okay' precedent.  Obviously, this solution sucks, but if we are to believe in the Rule of Law, not the Rule of Men, then he must be charged and go to trial.  Standing on principle has a cost, which is why Congress has no principles.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 11, 2013, 09:47:31 AM
He broke the law put in place to protect the Feds in their lawbreaking and violations of our Constitutional protections?  That law?

Pu-leeze.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: ChrstnHsbndFthr on June 11, 2013, 10:04:55 AM
Be aware that he did NOT stand on principle. He ran. To an enemy country.(China) And we do not know where he is today. He has made himself a public target for people who desire information, by stating that he knows a lot about every NSA, CIA, and military officer. He speaks well. He thinks poorly, if he intended to help Americans. 

Also, the issue of the data is debatable. This is not really about reading your emails. It is about access to the garbage dump of data. It can be accessed later with a court order. The court order is allowed even to search your home. What is the difference here except information put out in the public is LESS intrusive?

I do see this from two sides. There is much here that makes me uncomfortable. But,  I do desire us to prevent future 9-11's. I do desire us to catch people like the Boston-Chechen bombers. This is not easy to just say government cannot look at all. It has to be allowed, as ANY evidence can be retrieved, after a judge signs off.

Consider the alternatives. None are good. There does come a point we must be more concerned about putting honorable men in office. Yes, reduce all their power. But, government does not wield the sword in vain. Some power is necessary.  Let us just carefully define the limits to the power, thoughtfully, while making sure only decent men are allowed to hold power at all.  I say this all the while acknowledging that the current lot should not have the power to give a parking ticket, with their ethics.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 11, 2013, 10:15:41 AM
Be aware that he did NOT stand on principle. He ran. To an enemy country.(China) And we do not know where he is today. He has made himself a public target for people who desire information, by stating that he knows a lot about every NSA, CIA, and military officer. He speaks well. He thinks poorly, if he intended to help Americans.

He ran because he knows his name is now Mudd.  

Quote
Also, the issue of the data is debatable. This is not really about reading your emails. It is about access to the garbage dump of data. It can be accessed later with a court order. The court order is allowed even to search your home. What is the difference here except information put out in the public is LESS intrusive?

This is about them accessing anything and everything as they damn well please -- and do not tell me they are not reading emails when I posted a link describing how they listened in and passed around salacious phone recordings -- and doing with it as they damn well please.

It is NOT their information, it's ours.

Quote
I do see this from two sides. There is much here that makes me uncomfortable. But,  I do desire us to prevent future 9-11's. I do desire us to catch people like the Boston-Chechen bombers.


Yeah, that worked out well, considering what they've been doing was in place and they either missed it or ignored it.

Quote
This is not easy to just say government cannot look at all. It has to be allowed, as ANY evidence can be retrieved, after a judge signs off.

What judge?  What court?  You're trying to tell us they collect the "metadata" and the go get a warrant to look at pieces of their collection?  I was born at night, CHF, but not last night.

Quote
Consider the alternatives. None are good. There does come a point we must be more concerned about putting honorable men in office. Yes, reduce all their power. But, government does not wield the sword in vain. Some power is necessary.  Let us just carefully define the limits to the power, thoughtfully, while making sure only decent men are allowed to hold power at all.  I say this all the while acknowledging that the current lot should not have the power to give a parking ticket, with their ethics.

No, no "lot" should have this kind of power.  The Founders warned against entrusting government with this kind of sweeping authority, warned us against expecting "ethical" from government, and wrote the Constitution to limit the very excess of authority they've appropriated for themselves in spite of it.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: AmericanPatriot on June 11, 2013, 10:42:13 AM
I fear my government more than any camel screwing muzzy.
The court they have to go to for warrants is the secret FISA court.

That's the one that enabled the PRISM program.

Time after time they had info to foil plots that didn't involve spying on every one of us.

From the Russian warnings about the Marathon Bombers to the 20th 911 hijacker.

They dropped the ball every time.
Probably on purpose.

Yet they sexually abuse 7 year old girls and 80 year old cancer stricken grandmas. They go after Tea Party and freedom lovers to suppress by fear.

Snowden is a hero
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: trapeze on June 11, 2013, 10:57:03 AM
*Note: In the following opinion the terms "us" and "we" do not include liberals, leftists, centrists, RINOs, moderates, most so-called independents and all others who would be included in the category of "low intelligence voters."

This situation, or something like it, has been going on since the early days of post 9/11 and there was no leaker, no Edward Snowden, no person of "conscience" willing to come forward and put their own freedom in jeopardy to shine a light on it. Why do you suppose that was? (Note: Bradley Manning is excluded from this discussion for reasons that I will not go into at this time)

I think that most of us, those who invest any amount of time at all pondering such things, were "aware" that the NSA was probably collecting anything that it could with its vast array of listening and monitoring capabilities. I think that we knew this subconsciously and yet chose to not consciously dwell on it. It was a seemingly benign tumor that we were willing to mostly ignore. Okay, a benign tumor is not a very accurate analogy...I'm not sure what would be but let's, for the sake of argument look at this a little more closely.

We were willing to ignore it because 1) we saw the "necessity" of it post-WTC/Pentagon attacks and 2) as we were "aware" of it we were also seeing the benefits of it in zero attacks on the homeland plus 3) we were somewhat reassured in the system's benevolence in the hands of GWB...someone that most of us thought we could trust. Now, suddenly, we are very consciously aware of it and we don't like it at all. Again, why?

The reason that I am uncomfortable, actually antagonistic, toward this domestic spying situation is that I do not like and do not trust the people who are in charge of it. And with good reason. I do not trust BO. I never have and I think that it is safe to say that no one on this forum has ever trusted him, either. He is a thug and he has, since his early days in Chicago, always been a thug. Nevertheless, I still had some degree of confidence in the mechanisms of the state, those systems put in place by different administrations and congresses over the last several decades. I believed that this large mass of people were more good than bad and that since they were governed, ultimately, by the Constitution that they would be relatively trustworthy in looking after my interests. I knew that there would be some "bad" people in various places but I believed that the vast majority of civil servants being "good" people would be an adequate safeguard against the machinations of the others. I was wrong.

That fantasy that I was invested in may have never existed or, if it ever did, was corrupted at some point in the past. Perhaps I was taken in by the term "civil servant" into believing that that was actually their function...that they served the greater good of society. I don't know. I do know that my son works for the federal government in the armed forces and I know that he is not corrupt and I assume that most of his fellow soldiers are not corrupt and perhaps that helped me to stay in this fantasy longer than I otherwise would have. I don't know.

At any rate, I no longer have any faith in the federal (and most other forms of) government. The reasons have been accumulating at a breathtaking pace...

- The Secret Service scandal
- The IRS scandal
- The Benghazi scandal
- The EPA scandal
- The State Department scandal
- The Department of Justice scandal
- The GSA scandal (remember that one?)
- The NSA scandal
- The comprehensive immigration bill
- The Sebelius influence peddling scandal
- The HHS insider trading scandal

Incredibly, there may be one or two that I have left out and the day isn't over so (hard to believe, but) conceivably a new scandal could emerge at any moment.

What a difference four years and a new president can make. I (and I'm speaking for myself here) used to more or less trust the government and now I don't. I knew that the feds were more or less spying on me before and I didn't care all that much about it. Now I know that they are spying on me and because they have proven their hostility and malevolence toward me due to my religious and political beliefs I am very much concerned. I have become antagonistic toward government at pretty much all levels because I no longer trust them.

I don't trust them to keep me safe anymore. This feeling was more than borne out with the attack in Boston but there is also the non-enforcement of border security. The government has had over a decade to secure our borders and they have not done it. There is absolutely no way that this is an accident or some sort of oversight. They have purposefully left our border wide open to anyone who cares to enter our country. Our government has purposefully ignored the very real threat of islam and of (potentially) all muslims. The government purposefully looks the other way regarding domestic muslims regardless of what they say and how they behave.

I look at this situation as something like being forced to hang around with a bi-polar drunk who is in possession of a very powerful handgun. The guy has the power of life/death over me and I am not in a position of being able to escape his presence, disarm him or render him harmless. Instead I am forced to co-exist with him knowing that any moment he could squeeze of a round or two and if the gun happens to be pointing at me, well, that's just too bad. That's actually a much better analogy than the benign tumor thing.

I believe that what the Snowden guy did was technically illegal but I don't think it was wrong. Unlike Manning, there is no evidence that he has put anyone's life in jeopardy. That may turn out to not be true but as things stand now it is. I believe that if the Snowden guy hadn't come forward then someone else would have done some kind of a document dump that would have accomplished the same thing. I hope so, anyway.

Arguably, the government can not be trusted with this kind of power. Not this government and not this administration. Maybe GWB could be trusted but he is gone. Moreover, as has been argued by others, there is more than enough recent evidence to support the notion that the government is not morally and ethically neutral but is instead immoral and unethical. There is, to paraphrase a wealthy immoral moron, no controlling moral authority. There is most definitely a controlling legal authority but it uses the legal system as a cudgel to punish its perceived enemies. The government is no longer deserving of the responsibility of protecting all of its citizens.

Not that it makes any difference. I have to be realistic and know that there is absolutely zero chance of the federal government ever giving up this power and going back to the way things were, returning to a constitutional mind set.

It's hard to admit it but we are pretty much screwed now forever. We are trapped in what used to be called a dystopian future. It's the present, it's now and there is no way, short of a very violent revolution, that we are going to return to what was and what is supposed to be.

There is, though, always resistance such as it is...

Brazil (9/10) Movie CLIP - Harry Wastes Central Services (1985) HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olXUIcb80N0#ws)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 11, 2013, 11:14:25 AM
He broke the law put in place to protect the Feds in their lawbreaking and violations of our Constitutional protections?  That law?

Pu-leeze.

He broke Obama's Law but he obeyed the Constitution;
whether he did right or wrong depends on one's allegiance.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 11, 2013, 11:16:57 AM
Considering just the IRS alone, leaving aside the others for a moment, is enough to make me irate about what they've done to people with the information they collect.  Connecting some way-back dots, just consider anew the derogatory information that was released about "Joe the Plumber" after his unfortunate encounter with Obongo.

You don't have to be guilty of anything but to just catch the attention of the Feds to have them target you -- and then comb through what they've collected to reduce your life to rubble.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 11, 2013, 11:33:22 AM
Sometimes I like to snuff fascists, just for fun, no matter the little letter after their name, no matter what out-of-control alphabet soup government agency they belong to, or what they think they got elected or appointed to, just because I can.  I take unto myself the ultimate power these fascists think they can wrest away from a free people without consequence.

Again, this is said all in fun, of course.

 ;)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Glock32 on June 11, 2013, 11:36:19 AM
Had this guy gone through "official" whistle blower channels, what would have happened to him would have been exactly what he claims to have heard NSA associates saying about the then-unknown leak: "he should be disappeared"

Part of the reason people seem to be having difficulty seeing this issue with proper clarity is because they have unknowingly digested the fallacious premise that government has "compelling interests" of its very own. Yes, I know it asserts that it does, and certainly behaves as though it does, but it really doesn't. Its "interests" are clearly spelled out for it in the Constitution; its interests are what we tell it its interests are. Not the other way around.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 11, 2013, 11:37:06 AM

But with PRISM it's now so much easier.  Just type in Joe the Plumber and all the cross references are there.
...linking to article and image earlier referenced (the image won't come up here - it's a Windows live img whatever that is) - http://ace.mu.nu/archives/340785.php (http://ace.mu.nu/archives/340785.php) - It's illuminating to this conversation.

"What a nice picture! The analytical engine has arranged everyone neatly, picking out clusters of individuals and also showing both peripheral individuals and-more intriguingly-people who seem to bridge various groups in ways that might perhaps be relevant to national security. Look at that person right in the middle there. Zoom in if you wish. He seems to bridge several groups in an unusual (though perhaps not unique) way. His name is Paul Revere."
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 11, 2013, 11:43:33 AM
When the weepy Carrot-Faced Boner calls Snowden a traitor, look out.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/06/house-speaker-john-boehner-nsa-leaker-a-traitor/ (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/06/house-speaker-john-boehner-nsa-leaker-a-traitor/)

When Al Franken says all is well, look out.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/06/10/franken-very-well-aware-of-nsa-tracking-phone-records/ (http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/06/10/franken-very-well-aware-of-nsa-tracking-phone-records/)

When "The Clapper" jokes  “Some of you expressed surprise that I showed up—so many emails to read!”, look out.

http://www.govexec.com/federal-news/fedblog/2013/06/banqueters-and-spying-news-bombshell/64598/?oref=river (http://www.govexec.com/federal-news/fedblog/2013/06/banqueters-and-spying-news-bombshell/64598/?oref=river)

When 56% of the people in your nation and morons, look out.

When 45% of the people in your nation comprise the lunatic fringe...lock and load!

http://www.people-press.org/2013/06/10/majority-views-nsa-phone-tracking-as-acceptable-anti-terror-tactic/ (http://www.people-press.org/2013/06/10/majority-views-nsa-phone-tracking-as-acceptable-anti-terror-tactic/)

When most Repubs and Indys think all is well...you better be able to shoot 360 degrees!!
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: trapeze on June 11, 2013, 11:58:50 AM
Meta data notwithstanding...

The fact of the matter is that the NSA can listen in on any phone conversation that they want.

The NSA can record text messaging at will.

The NSA can record any and all of our internet activity whenever they want.

The NSA can record any and all emails.

The notion that the NSA is supposed to perform the above activities ONLY with the permission of a member of the court is quaint.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Glock32 on June 11, 2013, 12:26:10 PM
So a majority are a-ok with what the NSA is doing?  That just convinces me more than ever that there will be no stopping this train wreck just in the nick of time. No, we're going to have full blown Soviet style tyranny here. The population of this country deserves nothing better. I guess slavery is the natural state of man after all.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: trapeze on June 11, 2013, 12:53:53 PM
I would say that today, even with what we have discovered...even though the story is "in the news," a majority are completely ignorant of the story altogether. They could tell you about the latest episode of "Dancing With The Stars" but they have no idea at all about what the NSA is, what they do and why.

Low

Intelligence

Voters



Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Predator Don on June 11, 2013, 01:57:33 PM

Since the whistleblower is considered a traitor and it appears our gov't has no intentions of ending the attack on our Constitutional rights....I really see only one answer and I don't like it or wait and watch.....

 Ole ben was correct. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." I gave up part of my liberty after 911. Like Trap so eloquently stated, I know I trusted GWB  in regards to our safety and believed it necessary to "be safe". I was wrong. So alphabet agencies popped up, ironically, because of the political correct stance "not to profile". So now, we still have the attacks, the deaths and a gov't who has its nose so far up my ass it knows what I just ate.

IMO, there are two scenarios. Scenario #1: We will suffer a major terrorist attack, possibly multiple attacks and My(our) world will be turned upside down, not from the destruction from an attack, but from what my gov't will throw on the people. Who knows what life in America will be like after a major attack. Scenario #2: Is the one I don't like. I think all here know what it is and I don't like it because I don't want to take the first shot. John Boehner is proof the ballot box is not the answer.

Guess either one ends America as I know it....Not that it hasn't already ended.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: IronDioPriest on June 11, 2013, 02:22:37 PM
Obama has kicked the door open for complete hostility of government toward political opposition.

If this regime used this data mining to learn of a Jihadi plot to blow up an American city, and the destruction of that city would further advance this regime's political agenda, does anyone here feel confident that this regime would in fact step in and stop the attack? Does anyone question whether this regime would allow the attack to occur in an attempt to bring about a desired political outcome?

Tsarnaev.

If this regime used this data mining to learn of a concerted political opposition that had the potential to severely damage its agenda, does anyone here feel confident that this regime would stay its hand, and not use the data against its opposition? Does anyone question whether this regime would use this data to turn government against its opposition?

IRS.

I may be off track, or I may be spot-on. I don't know, and neither does anyone else here. That fact alone should cause us all to consider how we view this revelation of domestic spying and data-mining.

Look at the chart I posted earlier from AoSHQ, showing how "meta-data" showing the intersections and connections between people and groups would have singled out Paul Revere as a threat to the British crown.

Who questions whether King George would have used such data had it been available?

This data will not be used to prevent terrorism. Ultimately, it will be used to protect the regime that seizes power with the will to use the data to keep that power. This data is not being collected to prevent Jihadi attacks. It is being collected to prevent the toppling of a Socialist US regime.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Glock32 on June 11, 2013, 02:51:07 PM
If this regime used this data mining to learn of a concerted political opposition that had the potential to severely damage its agenda, does anyone here feel confident that this regime would stay its hand, and not use the data against its opposition? Does anyone question whether this regime would use this data to turn government against its opposition?

How far are we from them just launching a Hellfire missile from a drone, and then the official story citing an unfortunate gas leak that caused an explosion when someone flipped a light switch? And I ask this with a straight face because I can plausibly see them doing such things.

Quote
I may be off track, or I may be spot-on. I don't know, and neither does anyone else here. That fact alone should cause us all to consider how we view this revelation of domestic spying and data-mining.

Exactly.

Quote
Look at the chart I posted earlier from AoSHQ, showing how "meta-data" showing the intersections and connections between people and groups would have singled out Paul Revere as a threat to the British crown.

Today they would just call him a terrorist and that would be good enough for everyone. They'd even be thanked for keeping us safe.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 11, 2013, 04:23:51 PM
"Rather than relying on tables, we can make a picture of the relationship between the groups, using the number of shared members as an index of the strength of the link between the seditious groups. Here’s what that looks like."

(http://kieranhealy.org/files/misc/group-view.png)

"And, of course, we can also do that for the links between the people, using our 254x254 “Person by Person” table. Here is what that looks like."

http://kieranhealy.org/files/misc/revere-network-reduced.png (http://kieranhealy.org/files/misc/revere-network-reduced.png)

The above link is too big for this page; however, if you can download it
it is a history lesson in itself besides being illustrative of how collecting addresses can convict you.

(Fixed broken link; IDP)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 11, 2013, 05:07:01 PM
"Responding to reporters’ questions about the National Security Agency’s massive surveillance efforts, Graham argued that the U.S. government once censored mail.

“In World War II, the mentality of the public was that our whole way of life was at risk, we’re all in. We censored the mail. When you wrote a letter overseas, it got censored. When a letter was written back from the battlefield to home, they looked at what was in the letter to make sure they were not tipping off the enemy,” he said. “If I thought censoring the mail was necessary, I would suggest it, but I don’t think it is.”

Graham also said the “First Amendment right to speak is sacrosanct, but it has limits.” He added that Americans should be more willing to give up certain civil liberties in dangerous times to prevent terrorist attacks."

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/11/lindsey-graham-on-domestic-surveillance-if-i-thought-censoring-the-mail-was-necessary-i-would-suggest-it/?corder=asc#comments (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/11/lindsey-graham-on-domestic-surveillance-if-i-thought-censoring-the-mail-was-necessary-i-would-suggest-it/?corder=asc#comments)

He's a liar.  The only thing he holds sacrosanct is his goddam power and position.

After today's hits, I'm beside myself.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 11, 2013, 05:25:22 PM
We did censor foreign correspondence and we probably censored selected domestic correspondence. We also aggressively killed the enemy, young and old, man, woman and child. We were whole heatedly killing them all.  We ain't doin that now Limpsey.

A thing about multiplying matrices is that the order matters. It is not like multiplying two numbers. If instead of multiplying A(AT) we put the transposed matrix first, and do AT(A), then we get a different result. This time, the result is a 7x7 “Organization by Organization” matrix, where the numbers in the cells represent how many people each organization has in common. Here’s what that looks like. Because it is small we can see the whole table.

1           StAndrewsLodge LoyalNine NorthCaucus LongRoomClub TeaParty Bostoncommittee LondonEnemies
2 StAndrewsLodge     -          1             3                      2                 3               0                        5
3 LoyalNine              1          -              5                      0                 5               0                        8
4 NorthCaucus         3          5             -                       8                15              11                     20
5 LongRoomClu b     2          0             8                      -                  1                5                        5
6 TeaParty               3          5            15                     1                  -                5                      10
7 BostonCommittee  0          0            11                      5                  5               -                       14
8 LondonEnemies     5          8            20                      5                10              14                       -

Again, interesting! (I beg to venture.) Instead of seeing how (and which) people are linked by their shared membership in organizations, we see which organizations are linked through the people that belong to them both. People are linked through the groups they belong to. Groups are linked through the people they share. This is the “duality of persons and groups” in the title of Mr Breiger’s article.
 
http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-find-paul-revere/ (http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-find-paul-revere/)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 11, 2013, 07:17:23 PM
I fear my government more than any camel screwing muzzy.
The court they have to go to for warrants is the secret FISA court.

That's the one that enabled the PRISM program.


Time after time they had info to foil plots that didn't involve spying on every one of us.

From the Russian warnings about the Marathon Bombers to the 20th 911 hijacker.

They dropped the ball every time.
Probably on purpose.

Yet they sexually abuse 7 year old girls and 80 year old cancer stricken grandmas. They go after Tea Party and freedom lovers to suppress by fear.

Snowden is a hero

Quote
SHOCKER: FISA Court Surveillance Rejections Extremely Rare. “The FISC has declined just 11 of the more than 33,900 surveillance requests made by the government in 33 years, the Wall Street Journal reported Sunday. That’s a rate of .03 percent, which raises questions about just how much judicial oversight is actually being provided.”

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/170506/ (http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/170506/)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 11, 2013, 09:33:55 PM

US News (http://www.usnews.com/news/newsgram/articles/2013/06/11/nine-companies-tied-to-prism-obama-will-be-smacked-with-class-action-lawsuit-wednesday) - Nine Companies Tied to PRISM, Obama Will Be Smacked With Class-Action Lawsuit Wednesday
AOL, Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, PalTalk, Skype, Yahoo! and Youtube will be named in the suit, attorney says

[Larry] Klayman told U.S. News he will file a second class-action lawsuit Wednesday in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia targeting government officials and each of the nine companies listed in a leaked National Security Agency slideshow as participants in the government's PRISM program.

...the lawsuit against Verizon, which also names as defendants President Barack Obama, Attorney General Eric Holder, NSA director Keith Alexander and federal judge Roger Vinson, the FISA court judge who approved the leaked April order.
...

This should go far, about as far as one of Darrel Issa's shows.

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: IronDioPriest on June 11, 2013, 10:36:07 PM

This should go far, about as far as one of Darrel Issa's shows.


Yup. And if for some reason the suit results in what appears will be accountability... well, there's always the final stop-gap: John Roberts.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: trapeze on June 12, 2013, 01:07:57 AM
Incredibly, there may be one or two that I have left out and the day isn't over so (hard to believe, but) conceivably a new scandal could emerge at any moment.

I can't believe I forgot to mention:

- The "Fast & Furious" scandal (Holder)
- The Gibson Guitar raid (Fish & Wildlife Service)
- Pigford (USDA)
- Solyndra, et al green energy boondoggles (Energy Dept)
- GM/Chrysler theft of bondholders/shareholder/retirees equity plus forced dealership closures
- Failure to investigate/prosecute New Black Panthers (Holder)
- Fake email accounts (EPA & others)
- Unauthorized military action in Libya (State Dept & Toonces)

And I'm probably still missing one or two but this will have to do for now.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 12, 2013, 07:36:10 AM

This should go far, about as far as one of Darrel Issa's shows.


Yup. And if for some reason the suit results in what appears will be accountability... well, there's always the final stop-gap: John Roberts.

That flip-flop on ObamaCare and fanciful penalty-tax rewrite pretty much proves when push comes to shove the PTBs got some pretty damning stuff on little Johnny!

In the end there is only one way to secure our liberty, the Founders gave us the tools and the example.   ;)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: trapeze on June 12, 2013, 09:28:18 AM
Whoa...one more State Department scandal: Blocking investigation into four dead Hondurans. (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/state_death_puzzle_DEPZ3ToAeUUxlhL2djtrkK)

HRC had been very busy in that whole coverup thing. Remember when she worked on the Watergate committee?

Quote
WASHINGTON — A top State Department official stymied investigators trying to get to the bottom of four killings in Honduras involving DEA agents and local police — yet another revelation from internal memos leaked by a whistleblower claiming a pattern of coverups.

The incident ended in the deaths of two pregnant women and two men last year, after Honduran national police opened fire from a State Department-owned helicopter on a small boat.

Honduran police said drugs were involved, but locals said the boat was full of fishermen. The killings were referenced in a whistleblower memo obtained by The Post.

Lots of dead people with this admin.

I guess that you could also add

- The killing of an American with a drone

to the list but I don't see anything wrong with killing jihadi scum in a war zone even if they happen to hold an American passport. Hard cheese for you, jihadi.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: IronDioPriest on June 12, 2013, 09:46:00 AM
We have to stop thinking of scandal as something that will harm the electoral prospects of Democrats. Obama has proved that scandal can be managed and overcome through denial, obfuscation, stalling, shamelessness, and a complicit media.

None of this State Dept sh*t or any of the rest of the Obama scandals will touch Hillary's prospects for 2016, I promise.

Look at the list Trap compiled. The man and his regime would already be hanging or removed from office if there was any hope for either. He was elected in spite of many of those scandals occurring before the 2012 election. They sold guns illegally to Mexican drug cartels who are responsible for 70,000 civilian deaths and counting, and still, they were returned to power.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: RickZ on June 12, 2013, 09:46:21 AM
I guess that you could also add

- The killing of an American with a drone

to the list but I don't see anything wrong with killing jihadi scum in a war zone even if they happen to hold an American passport. Hard cheese for you, jihadi.

While I agree with the 'adios, motherfukcer' sentiment, killing Americans without trial and sentencing sets a very bad precedent.

This Administration lives for slippery slopes.  I'm sure Mooch thinks that's a ski resort.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: RickZ on June 12, 2013, 09:49:27 AM
They sold guns illegally to Mexican drug cartels who are responsible for 70,000 civilian deaths and counting, and still, they were returned to power.

Wait, what?  I've heard numbers of around 3-5,000 for the F&F guns.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 12, 2013, 10:00:59 AM
They sold guns illegally to Mexican drug cartels who are responsible for 70,000 civilian deaths and counting, and still, they were returned to power.

Wait, what?  I've heard numbers of around 3-5,000 for the F&F guns.

I think IDP was referring to deaths caused by the cartels, not the deaths from the F&F guns.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: IronDioPriest on June 12, 2013, 10:14:34 AM
They sold guns illegally to Mexican drug cartels who are responsible for 70,000 civilian deaths and counting, and still, they were returned to power.

Wait, what?  I've heard numbers of around 3-5,000 for the F&F guns.

I think IDP was referring to deaths caused by the cartels, not the deaths from the F&F guns.

^^^
That
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Glock32 on June 12, 2013, 11:02:26 AM
We have to stop thinking of scandal as something that will harm the electoral prospects of Democrats. Obama has proved that scandal can be managed and overcome through denial, obfuscation, stalling, shamelessness, and a complicit media.

None of this State Dept sh*t or any of the rest of the Obama scandals will touch Hillary's prospects for 2016, I promise.

Look at the list Trap compiled. The man and his regime would already be hanging or removed from office if there was any hope for either. He was elected in spite of many of those scandals occurring before the 2012 election. They sold guns illegally to Mexican drug cartels who are responsible for 70,000 civilian deaths and counting, and still, they were returned to power.

You are right about this. And what's more, I interpret it as a form of divine punishment. "Why can't we have a king like the other nations?" Well, now you've got one. Be careful what you wish for.

Barnhardt has an interesting 2 part piece up on cowardice and how it lies at the heart of pretty much every other sinful act, and she refers back to Bonhoeffer (she knows he was a Lutheran right?) arguing that a failure to act is also itself a sinful act. The people of this country have been complicit in moral and ethical degradation of the civilization, most infamously in the sanctioned murder of the unborn, and God is no longer "(shedding) His Grace on Thee".

So we have injustice after injustice never being remedied, doing no damage to those who are responsible for them, because fundamentally we have become a culture in which Justice is an impossibility.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 12, 2013, 12:16:02 PM
I'm sure the pUbbies will change the dynamic...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57588830/nsa-director-to-get-a-public-grilling-in-the-senate/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57588830/nsa-director-to-get-a-public-grilling-in-the-senate/)

 ::saywhat::

...oh wait, I meant perpetuate after some pissing and moaning!

 ::unknowncomic::


"We have to stop thinking of scandal as something that will harm the electoral prospects of Democrats. Obama has proved that scandal can be managed and overcome through denial, obfuscation, stalling, shamelessness, and a complicit media."

Casus belli.

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 12, 2013, 01:28:55 PM
There is still time.

TIMELINE (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/watergate/timeline.html)


1971
[blockquote] June 13 - The New York Times begins publishing the Pentagon Papers - the Defense Department's secret history of the Vietnam War. The Washington Post will begin publishing the papers later that same week.

September 3 - The White House "plumbers" unit - named for their orders to plug leaks in the administration - burglarizes a psychiatrist's office to find files on Daniel Ellsberg, the former defense analyst who leaked the Pentagon Papers.[/blockquote]
1972
[blockquote] June 17 - Five men, one of whom says he used to work for the CIA, are arrested at 2:30 a.m. trying to bug the offices of the Democratic National Committee at the Watergate hotel and office complex. Post Story

June 19 - A GOP security aide is among the Watergate burglars, The Washington Post reports. Former attorney general John Mitchell, head of the Nixon reelection campaign, denies any link to the operation. Post Story

August 1 - A $25,000 cashier's check, apparently earmarked for the Nixon campaign, wound up in the bank account of a Watergate burglar, The Washington Post reports. Post Story

September 29 - John Mitchell, while serving as attorney general, controlled a secret Republican fund used to finance widespread intelligence-gathering operations against the Democrats, The Post reports. Post Story

October 10 - FBI agents establish that the Watergate break-in stems from [weasel John Dean checking on his girlfriend Moe's illicit activity, Oh Moe, why can't you be true?] a massive campaign of political spying and sabotage conducted on behalf of the Nixon reelection effort, The Post reports. Post Story

November 7 - Nixon is reelected in one of the largest landslides in American political history, taking more than 60 percent of the vote and crushing the Democratic nominee, Sen. George McGovern of South Dakota. Post Story[/blockquote]
1973
[blockquote] January 30 - Former Nixon aides G. Gordon Liddy and James W. McCord Jr. are convicted of conspiracy, burglary and wiretapping in the Watergate incident. Five other men plead guilty, but mysteries remain. Post Story

April 30 - Nixon's top White House staffers, H.R. Haldeman and John Ehrlichman, and Attorney General Richard Kleindienst resign over the scandal. White House counsel John Dean is fired.Post Story

May 18 - The Senate Watergate Committee begins its nationally televised hearings. Attorney General-designate Elliot Richardson taps former solicitor general Archibald Cox as the Justice Department's special prosecutor for Watergate. Post Story | Post Analysis

June 3 - John Dean has told Watergate investigators that he discussed the Watergate cover-up with President Nixon at least 35 times, The Post reports. Post Story

June 13 - Watergate prosecutors find a memo addressed to John Ehrlichman describing in detail the plans to burglarize the office of Pentagon Papers defendant Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist, The Post reports. Post Story

July 13 - Alexander Butterfield, former presidential appointments secretary, reveals in congressional testimony that since 1971 Nixon had recorded all conversations and telephone calls in his offices. Post Story

July 18 - Nixon reportedly orders the White House taping system disconnected.

July 23 - Nixon refuses to turn over the presidential tape recordings to the Senate Watergate Committee or the special prosecutor.Post Story

October 20 - Saturday Night Massacre: Nixon fires Archibald Cox and abolishes the office of the special prosecutor. Attorney General Richardson and Deputy Attorney General William D. Ruckelshaus resign. Pressure for impeachment mounts in Congress. Post Story

November 17 - Nixon declares, "I'm not a crook," maintaining his innocence in the Watergate case. Post Story

December 7 - The White House can't explain an 18 ½-minute gap in one of the subpoenaed tapes. Chief of Staff Alexander Haig says one theory is that "some sinister force" erased the segment. Post Story
[/blockquote]
1974
[blockquote] April 30 - The White House releases more than 1,200 pages of edited transcripts of the Nixon tapes to the House Judiciary Committee, but the committee insists that the tapes themselves must be turned over. Post Story

July 24 - The Supreme Court rules unanimously that Nixon must turn over the tape recordings of 64 White House conversations, rejecting the president's claims of executive privilege. Post Story

July 27 - House Judiciary Committee passes the first of three articles of impeachment, charging obstruction of justice.

August 8 - Richard Nixon becomes the first U.S. president to resign. Vice President Gerald R. Ford assumes the country's highest office. He will later pardon Nixon of all charges related to the Watergate case. Post Story[/blockquote
 
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 12, 2013, 02:28:51 PM
That is so 1970's!
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 13, 2013, 06:56:07 AM
Keystone cops...good at snooping, bad at bagging...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/12/us-usa-security-snowden-hunt-idUSBRE95B1A220130612 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/12/us-usa-security-snowden-hunt-idUSBRE95B1A220130612)

And this?

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/picture-shows-edward-snowden-2002-pulling-down-pants-photo-195217802.html (http://news.yahoo.com/photos/picture-shows-edward-snowden-2002-pulling-down-pants-photo-195217802.html)

Really?  That's all ya got?

 ::hysterical::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 13, 2013, 06:58:40 AM
Nice tooky.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 13, 2013, 08:06:15 AM
Y'all really need to read all of this (http://pjmedia.com/andrewmccarthy/2013/06/12/congressman-sensenbrenner-is-wrong-on-patriot-act-records/?singlepage=true):

".... To get business records under the Patriot Act, the FBI would not have to prove anything to the court; as with a pen-register, however, the executive branch would have to make solemn representations that the information was sought for a legitimate purpose – viz., that there were reasonable grounds to believe the records sought were relevant to a national security investigation (i.e., either to obtain foreign intelligence or protect against terrorism or foreign spying).

Nevertheless, Rep. Sensenbrenner writes:

    To obtain a business records order like the one the administration obtained, the Patriot Act requires the government to prove to a special federal court, known as a (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA)) court, that it is complying with specific guidelines set by the attorney general and that the information sought is relevant to an authorized investigation. Intentionally targeting US citizens is prohibited.

This is wrong in every particular. The government is not required to prove anything to the FISA court. This was the crux of the debate. If the government had to prove anything to the FISA court, that would mean the FISA court, rather than the executive branch, would have the final say on who could be investigated and what records could be scrutinized.

The government – as the statute says in language that was argued over endlessly – must provide the court with “a statement of facts showing there are reasonable grounds to believe that [the records sought] are relevant to an authorized investigation.” But the statute does not empower the court to second-guess that statement of facts. If the bill had granted this kind of judicial intrusion into executive responsibilities, the national security right would not have supported it, and it would never have been enacted. Instead, the statute provides that if the government makes the stipulated representations, the court must sign the order.

Furthermore, the government need not “prove” to the FISA court “that it is complying with specific guidelines set by the attorney general,” as Sensenbrenner asserts. Instead, guidelines from the attorney general regarding the retention and dissemination of the information sought must be set forth in the application. The executive branch must follow them, and there is no reason to believe agents are not doing so. But there is no requirement to prove to the FISA court that the government is complying. Again, it is a solemn representation, not a proof requirement.

Finally, it is simply not the case, as Sensenbrenner claims, that “intentionally targeting US citizens is prohibited.”"
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 13, 2013, 11:22:37 AM
NSA Snooping Excludes Mosques, Missed Boston Bombers (http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/061213-659753-all-intrusive-obama-terror-dragnet-excludes-mosques.htm)

I know, shocka!, right?
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 13, 2013, 11:40:29 AM
I remember the Patriot Act discussion and it was apparent then the proper application would fall to mortals in the Admin in power...I guess people never thought complete moonbat nucking futs would ever be the ones making these calls...

 ::)

Enough guilt to spread around on that score...but arguing now the authorization is working properly and American liberty is not at risk is an outright lie.

Oh, and as for that mosque crap...figures...I am shocked at my lack of shock...

Perhaps we all need to establish some mosques, takkiya mosques that is...   

Damn, what a sorry-assed place ObamaAmerica has become...
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Glock32 on June 13, 2013, 11:51:33 AM
I swear, I just don't know if it's fixable. Part of me says that the America created by the Founders was uniquely the product of a frontier society. Small population and a lot of land per person, far removed from seats of power. They were basically a stem cutting from Europe, and now the cutting has grown into a huge tree itself. But now there's no frontier left, not on this planet at least.

The early Americans were self-selected for highly independent personalities who resented the stifling authoritarianism and collectivization of old Europe (not just the monarchy, but feudalistic relics like guilds too), and they rolled the dice to risk coming to a new continent just for the chance to get away from that suffocating control over everything.

Now we are the victims of their success. The American population now is basically the same as the Europe those early colonists left behind. I don't know where the quote came from, but it's incredibly accurate: adversity makes men, prosperity makes monsters.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Predator Don on June 13, 2013, 12:44:28 PM
NSA Snooping Excludes Mosques, Missed Boston Bombers (http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/061213-659753-all-intrusive-obama-terror-dragnet-excludes-mosques.htm)

I know, shocka!, right?


No different than grandma patted down as the towelhead is ushered thru. How stupid is this country.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 13, 2013, 01:03:42 PM

Rand Paul, on the senate floor, likened NSA "going from phone to phone" to the British
"going house to house" and called it unconstitutional.  Wonder if Peter Jennings is going to play that clip tonight?
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: RickZ on June 13, 2013, 02:58:46 PM

Rand Paul, on the senate floor, likened NSA "going from phone to phone" to the British
"going house to house" and called it unconstitutional.  Wonder if Peter Jennings is going to play that clip tonight?


Thank gawd that prikc's dead, so I'd have to say, 'No'.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: ChrstnHsbndFthr on June 13, 2013, 10:24:33 PM
Hmmm



Rand Paul, on the senate floor, likened NSA "going from phone to phone" to the British
"going house to house" and called it unconstitutional.  Wonder if Peter Jennings is going to play that clip tonight?

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 15, 2013, 10:26:34 AM

US News (http://www.usnews.com/news/newsgram/articles/2013/06/11/nine-companies-tied-to-prism-obama-will-be-smacked-with-class-action-lawsuit-wednesday) - Nine Companies Tied to PRISM, Obama Will Be Smacked With Class-Action Lawsuit Wednesday
AOL, Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, PalTalk, Skype, Yahoo! and Youtube will be named in the suit, attorney says
...
...

Facebook released information defending itself, Microsoft did also.
It's amazing how few persons information was released.


Facebook: For the months ending December 31, 2012, the total number of user-data requests Facebook received from any and all government entities in the U.S. (including local, state, and federal, and including criminal and national security-related requests) – was between 9,000 and 10,000.

Microsoft: ...for the last six months of 2012 it received between 6,000 and 7,000 criminal and national security warrants, subpoenas and orders affecting between 31,000 and 32,000 consumer accounts, ...
   
Face book requests, 1,666.666 user-data requests per month and
Microsoft consumer accounts "affected", 5,166.666. Nothing to see here, 
no fishing, nothing fishy at all.


Link (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-15/internet-companies-begin-revealing-extent-government-snooping)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 16, 2013, 07:44:14 PM
And the asswipes in the Senate have more pressing matters to attend to than to sit around and listen to classified briefings about government spying on Americans....probably because they want and like government spying on Americans.

These people are by definition not Americans.

Isn't it time they were all classified as enemy combatants?

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/305765-senators-skip-classified-briefing-on-nsa-snooping-to-catch-flights-home#ixzz2WHh6qpXb (http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/305765-senators-skip-classified-briefing-on-nsa-snooping-to-catch-flights-home#ixzz2WHh6qpXb)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 16, 2013, 08:36:25 PM

Start with the one's that didn't show up for the briefing.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: trapeze on June 16, 2013, 10:56:03 PM
Time to throw another State Department sex scandal (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/06/the-hits-keep-coming-obama-state-dept-accused-of-covering-up-another-sex-scandal/) on the barbie...


Quote
Kerry Howard says she was bullied, harassed and forced to resign after she exposed US Consul General Donald Moore’s alleged security-threatening shenanigans in the Naples, Italy, office.

As the post’s community-liaison officer, Howard was charged with keeping workplace peace and advising higher-ups on the state of morale, but when she revealed allegations about her boss, State Department officials swept it under the rug, according to an Equal Employment Opportunity complaint she filed with the department’s Office of Civil Rights.

“It’s cover-up after cover-up. It’s absolutely hideous,” she told The Post. “When our diplomats disrespect the Italians by hiring and firing them because they have seen too much — or use them for ‘sex-ercise’ — we have to question why we have diplomats abroad at taxpayer expense.”
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 17, 2013, 02:05:42 AM
Time to throw another State Department sex scandal (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/06/the-hits-keep-coming-obama-state-dept-accused-of-covering-up-another-sex-scandal/) on the barbie...


Quote
Kerry Howard says she was bullied, harassed and forced to resign after she exposed US Consul General Donald Moore’s alleged security-threatening shenanigans in the Naples, Italy, office.

As the post’s community-liaison officer, Howard was charged with keeping workplace peace and advising higher-ups on the state of morale, but when she revealed allegations about her boss, State Department officials swept it under the rug, according to an Equal Employment Opportunity complaint she filed with the department’s Office of Civil Rights.

“It’s cover-up after cover-up. It’s absolutely hideous,” she told The Post. “When our diplomats disrespect the Italians by hiring and firing them because they have seen too much — or use them for ‘sex-ercise’ — we have to question why we have diplomats abroad at taxpayer expense.”
And they called Reagan the Teflon president, oh, that's right, the media was out to get him.

NY Post (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/staten_island/new_state_shock_HPvwttBZGMt4KOuO57zPeP) - The soap opera in Italy unfolded in the fall of 2010, when Moore became the Naples consul general after serving in the same capacity at the US Embassy in Port au Prince, Haiti. As a senior foreign-service officer, Moore could make as much as $179,700 a year, State Department data says.
...
Howard detailed the alleged affair in certified letters to members of Congress, including California Sens. Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer, in December, said Howard’s lawyer, Lawrence Kelly.

“More and more intimate details of their relationship became common knowledge,” Howard wrote, adding that the staffer became pregnant and wanted to keep the baby, but that Moore insisted she get an abortion.

“She informed anyone within earshot that she had had the abortion and had her tubes tied at his instruction,” Howard wrote. “Morale continued to sink as this soap opera played out in our workplace on a daily basis.”

ETA:
       Wasn't Bill Clinton Ambassador to Haiti in 2010?



Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 17, 2013, 06:55:51 AM
"As the post’s community-liaison officer, Howard was charged with keeping workplace peace and advising higher-ups on the state of morale,"

Well, there is another problem right there.

Not only do we have too much government, the government we do have is intentionally filled with hacks and cronies...so little wonder it is ineffective, wasteful and degenerate.

BOT - "The NSA yesterday declined to comment to CNET. A representative said Nadler was not immediately available."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-16/nsa-admits-warrantless-wiretapping-according-house-judiciary-committee-member (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-16/nsa-admits-warrantless-wiretapping-according-house-judiciary-committee-member)

The "any analyst can do it" understanding is in agreement with what Snowden said.

In other news, Darth Cheney says Snowden is likely a traitor and a spy for China.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2013/0616/Dick-Cheney-Edward-Snowden-a-traitor-who-likely-spied-for-China-video (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2013/0616/Dick-Cheney-Edward-Snowden-a-traitor-who-likely-spied-for-China-video)

Last I heard Liz is supporting daddy.  I guess Dick and Liz can KMA!

In a related story...China is asking...well, asking is not the right word, probably more like "Hey, bitch (Obama), wtf?!"!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/17/us-usa-security-china-idUSBRE95G06R20130617 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/17/us-usa-security-china-idUSBRE95G06R20130617)

Too much drama...all of it bad.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: trapeze on June 17, 2013, 09:54:39 AM
For the record, I do now believe that Snowden is a traitor and is acting traitorously. I believe, based on his statements, actions and documents released that he is working against the best interests of the United States and is providing aid and comfort to our enemies.

That said, I also believe that the Dumbass administration has thoroughly corrupted the NSA, CIA, FBI and IRS to serve its own ends rather than those of the country.

In other words, I believe that what Snowden is doing is completely wrong but I also believe that he is doing it because the Dumbass administration is not being held accountable (by anyone) for its very obvious transgressions. Sort of the ultimate "two wrongs don't make a right" argument.

In a just world both parties would be horsewhipped in public.

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Predator Don on June 17, 2013, 10:51:35 AM
For the record, I do now believe that Snowden is a traitor and is acting traitorously. I believe that, based on his statements, actions and documents released that he is working against the best interests of the United States and is providing aid and comfort to our enemies.

That said, I also believe that the Dumbass administration has thoroughly corrupted the NSA, CIA, FBI and IRS to serve its own ends rather than those of the country.

In other words, I believe that what Snowden is doing is completely wrong but I also believe that he is doing it because the Dumbass administration is not being held accountable (by anyone) for its very obvious transgressions. Sort of the ultimate "two wrongs don't make a right" argument.

In a just world both parties would be horsewhipped in public.



Out corrupting the corrupt. Probably steaming the Obama corruption machine.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: RickZ on June 17, 2013, 11:00:34 AM
I still stand by my comment made 6 days ago.

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,8428.msg100518.html#msg100518 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,8428.msg100518.html#msg100518)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 17, 2013, 11:30:05 AM
I still stand by my comment made 6 days ago.

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,8428.msg100518.html#msg100518 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,8428.msg100518.html#msg100518)

I would normally agree with you 100%, but...

...the last thing the Regime and the alphabetsoupagencies want is Snowden alive and chatty in a courtroom...plus, any courtroom would be Federal and sealed from any and all public view...but I don't think it will happen...this guy is going to wind up dead by US hands or eventually dead at foreign hands once they suck what they can out of him...I think this dude is dead man walking.

http://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-nsa-murder-jail-asylum-obama-leaker-guardian-glenn-greenwald-2013-6 (http://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-nsa-murder-jail-asylum-obama-leaker-guardian-glenn-greenwald-2013-6)

ETA - Another link:  http://www.zerohedge.com/node/475336 (http://www.zerohedge.com/node/475336)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 17, 2013, 12:04:31 PM
I read this as a much broader brush.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/reviews/opinion/item/15719-aldous-huxley-and-nsa-leaker-snowden (http://www.thenewamerican.com/reviews/opinion/item/15719-aldous-huxley-and-nsa-leaker-snowden)

Aldous Huxley and NSA Leaker Edward Snowden

“In 1931, when Brave New World was being written, I was convinced that there was still plenty of time,” wrote Aldous Huxley in 1958 in Brave New World Revisited. “The completely organized society, the scientific caste system, the abolition of free will by methodical conditioning, the servitude made acceptable by regular doses of chemically induced happiness, the orthodoxies drummed in by nightly courses of sleep-teaching — these things were coming all right, but not in my time, not even in the time of my grandchildren.”

Huxley saw the process of passing from “one extreme to the other,” from a basically uncontrolled society to ”the much too orderly Brave New World where perfect efficiency left no room for freedom or personal initiative,” coming faster than he had imagined in 1931.

Stating that technology had reduced the long interval he anticipated between an unregimented society and the crushing of individuality and personal uniqueness by an all-pervading state, Huxley warned that “modern technology has led to the concentration of economic and political power, and to the development of a society controlled (ruthlessly in the totalitarian states, politely and inconspicuously in the democracies) by Big Business and Big Government.”

On how individuals have been affected by technological advances and the expansion of state monitoring and control, Huxley quoted psychologist-philosopher Dr. Erich Fromm.

“Our contemporary society, in spite of its material, intellectual and political progress, is increasingly less conducive to mental health, and tends to undermine the inner security, happiness, reason and the capacity for love in the individual; it tends to turn him into an automaton who pays for his human failure with increasing mental sickness, and with despair hidden under a frantic drive for work and so-called pleasure,” wrote Fromm.

Under these conditions, stated Fromm, “let us beware” of “defining mental hygiene as the prevention of symptoms.” Neurotic “symptoms as such are not our enemy, but our friend; where there are symptoms there is conflict, and conflict always indicates that the forces of life which strive for integration and happiness are still fighting.”

In others words, asserted Huxley, “The really hopeless victims of mental illness are to be found among those who appear to be normal.”

Many are viewed as “normal,” said Fromm, “because they are so well adjusted to our mode of existence, because their human voice has been silenced so early in their lives, that they do not even struggle or suffer symptoms as the neurotic does.”

Explained Huxley: “They are normal not in what may be called the absolute sense of the word; they are normal only in relation to a profoundly abnormal society. Their perfect adjustment to that abnormal society is a measure of their mental illness. These millions of abnormally normal people, living without fuss in a society to which, if they were fully human beings, they ought not to be adjusted, still cherish ‘the illusion of individuality,’ but in fact they have been to a great extent 'deindividualized.’ Their conformity is developing into something like uniformity. But (as Fromm wrote) ‘uniformity and freedom are incompatible. Uniformity and mental health are incompatible too.… Man is not made to be an automaton, and if he becomes one, the basis for mental health is destroyed.’”

Huxley’s warning in 1958 was straightforward: “The Will to Order can make tyrants out of those who merely aspire to clear up a mess. The beauty of tidiness is used as a justification for despotism.”

Ralph R. Reiland is an associate professor of economics and the B. Kenneth Simon professor of free enterprise at Robert Morris University in Pittsburgh.


Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Glock32 on June 17, 2013, 12:50:55 PM
Interesting quotes from Huxley.  I've always had an interest in the different depictions of dystopian futures and how fanciful or plausible they are. Huxley's and Orwell's are often mentioned in the same discussion, and of the two I find Huxley's the more disturbing precisely because of how superficially benign it is. One way I heard the distinction described is "in Orwell's 1984 people don't read books because they are aggressively censored; in Huxley's Brave New World people don't read books because no one has any desire to."

That dumbed down incuriousness is closer to the mark with respect to our modern reality.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 17, 2013, 01:48:06 PM
Quote
“They are normal not in what may be called the absolute sense of the word; they are normal only in relation to a profoundly abnormal society. Their perfect adjustment to that abnormal society is a measure of their mental illness. These millions of abnormally normal people, living without fuss in a society to which, if they were fully human beings, they ought not to be adjusted, still cherish ‘the illusion of individuality,’ but in fact they have been to a great extent 'deindividualized.’ Their conformity is developing into something like uniformity. But (as Fromm wrote) ‘uniformity and freedom are incompatible. Uniformity and mental health are incompatible too.… Man is not made to be an automaton, and if he becomes one, the basis for mental health is destroyed.’”

Absolutely.

We are not a bunch of maladjusted misfits, "they" are driving us insane.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 17, 2013, 08:47:41 PM
Let there be no doubt a new generation of slavishly devoted fascists are prepared to carry the all-consuming flame of tyranny forward...

http://www.campusreform.org/blog/?ID=4796 (http://www.campusreform.org/blog/?ID=4796)

Domestic enemies self-identifying without fear of retribution.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 18, 2013, 01:31:57 AM

Ah, those wacky Libertarians.

Tap It: The NSA Slow Jam (featuring @goremy) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SegAoSpHJck#ws)

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 19, 2013, 07:28:54 AM
Nothing to see here, move your ass along!

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/06/nsa-friggin-beer-video/66360/ (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/06/nsa-friggin-beer-video/66360/)

Yeah, that wasn't nefarious at all...

 ::rockets::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 20, 2013, 07:32:54 PM

The only one that didn't roll over was Louie
and it appears they are going to keep him in
a box.
[blockquote] Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/20/fisa-court-nsa-without-warrant) - Revealed: the top secret rules that allow NSA to use US data without a warrant
...
However, alongside those provisions, the Fisa court-approved policies allow the NSA to:

• Keep data that could potentially contain details of US persons for up to five years;

• Retain and make use of "inadvertently acquired" domestic communications if they contain usable intelligence, information on criminal activity, threat of harm to people or property, are encrypted, or are believed to contain any information relevant to cybersecurity;

• Preserve "foreign intelligence information" contained within attorney-client communications;

• Access the content of communications gathered from "U.S. based machine-s-" or phone numbers in order to establish if targets are located in the US, for the purposes of ceasing further surveillance.[/blockquote]   
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 20, 2013, 10:34:32 PM

 “They went after (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/20/bush-era-nsa-whistleblower-makes-most-explosive-allegations-yet-about-true-extent-of-govt-surveillance/)...high-ranking military officers; they went after members of Congress, both Senate and the House, especially on the intelligence committees and on the armed services committees and some of the–and judicial,” Tice told Peter B. Collins on Boiling Frog Post News.

He went on: “But they went after other ones, too. They went after lawyers and law firms. All kinds of–heaps of lawyers and law firms. They went after judges. One of the judges is now sitting on the Supreme Court that I had his wiretap information in my hand.

http://redtape.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/20/19061109-lawyers-eye-nsa-data-as-treasure-trove-for-evidence-in-murder-divorce-cases?lite (http://redtape.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/20/19061109-lawyers-eye-nsa-data-as-treasure-trove-for-evidence-in-murder-divorce-cases?lite)


You people at the NSA, y'all own the world and y'all are doing a piss poor job operating it.  You myopic geeks are worse than bureacrats, let the politicians go free and allow us the Republic to revive itself.  OK?

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 21, 2013, 12:31:57 PM
A government that can and will do anything it wants to do and the people let it happen is no longer a government I want any part of.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 23, 2013, 02:41:01 PM
Ecuador via Russia, Cuba & Venezuela?

Ecuadorean Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino, visiting Vietnam, tweeted: "The Government of Ecuador has received an asylum request from Edward J. #Snowden."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/23/us-usa-security-flight-idUSBRE95M02H20130623 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/23/us-usa-security-flight-idUSBRE95M02H20130623)

Every spook and assassin on the payroll and every freelance killer on the planet looking for a fat payday or going to be flocking to this guy like vultures.

On the plus side these economies should get a short-term boost with all that travel and hotel action...not to mention the bar tabs and hooker fees.

ETA - Plans changed, something spooked him, still in Russia, and Russia is not reacting kindly to US demands.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/24/us-usa-security-flight-idUSBRE95M02H20130624 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/24/us-usa-security-flight-idUSBRE95M02H20130624)

Regime thugs threatening other countries to knuckle under to their demands...

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/former-nsa-contractor-snowden-leaves-hong-kong-moscow-080843121.html (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/former-nsa-contractor-snowden-leaves-hong-kong-moscow-080843121.html)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 25, 2013, 07:21:09 AM
Russia tells Obama Regime to piss off.  Cool, we hate being the only ones doing that.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_SNOWDEN_DIPLOMACY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-06-25-06-16-54 (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_SNOWDEN_DIPLOMACY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-06-25-06-16-54)

Heard on the radio that they think the ChiCom's hacked into everything Snowden had on laptops and drives...maybe, maybe not...then again, who's fault would it be anyway?  Why is it that nobody is asking the pertinent question - "Why does a guy have to leave the country to tell the truth?", right?

Apparently Russia wants to keep Snowden close at hand.  I'm sure that'll drive the Obongo Regime even more crazy.

http://www.zerohedge.com/node/475660 (http://www.zerohedge.com/node/475660)

 ::popcorn::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 25, 2013, 11:05:45 AM
Ecuador via Russia, Cuba & Venezuela?

Ecuadorean Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino, visiting Vietnam, tweeted: "The Government of Ecuador has received an asylum request from Edward J. #Snowden."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/23/us-usa-security-flight-idUSBRE95M02H20130623 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/23/us-usa-security-flight-idUSBRE95M02H20130623)

Every spook and assassin on the payroll and every freelance killer on the planet looking for a fat payday or going to be flocking to this guy like vultures.

On the plus side these economies should get a short-term boost with all that travel and hotel action...not to mention the bar tabs and hooker fees.

ETA - Plans changed, something spooked him, still in Russia, and Russia is not reacting kindly to US demands.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/24/us-usa-security-flight-idUSBRE95M02H20130624 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/24/us-usa-security-flight-idUSBRE95M02H20130624)

Regime thugs threatening other countries to knuckle under to their demands...

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/former-nsa-contractor-snowden-leaves-hong-kong-moscow-080843121.html (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/former-nsa-contractor-snowden-leaves-hong-kong-moscow-080843121.html)

He did a good thing bringing awareness of the NSA and what it's doing to US citizens to public consciousness.

It's a confusing tale, he shouldn't have had to leave the country.
Leaving the country being necessary he shouldn't have gone to an
adversarial nation.  Probability: the only persons giving him aid and
comfort to do the right thing was bad company. And that's a
shame.

ETA: "In other words, Russia is now willing and eager to "force" Snowden to make a faux pas just so it has every reason to end up with the 30 year old in a dark, sound proof room. And just like that Obama's headaches are set to become much, much worse."

From the beginning the administration has screwed up and done nothing but push Snowden further into the arms of villains while agitating and annoying at least and at best giving contrary world powers another lever against us. FOOLS.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 25, 2013, 11:08:55 AM
He couldn't go to an ally (presupposing we even have any these days) because he'd have risked arrest and extradition.  Wretchard at PJMedia has a piece up today about Snowdon and the issue, saying the man's days are numbered and he won't end well.  I tend to agree.  Once he decided his course of action, none of his choices were good.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 25, 2013, 11:27:39 AM
I still contend he is a proxy for somebody higher up the food chain, he may have been in the business, but I don't think this script was all his, and yeah I said from the start I think this poor fellow is dead man walking...no way will the Feds allow him to live in peace.  I think they snuffed a reporter, in addition to an Ambassador and a couple of former SEALs and perhaps some active duty SEALs and other Special Operators, oh and an ATF agent...what's one more dead body to these tyrants?

And I wouldn't put much stock in that quote about "...Obama's headaches...", he may GAS about how people view him, but he doesn't GAFF how people view the US...I bet the worse they think the better he thinks he's doing his job...his job being to destroy inside and out...

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: ChrstnHsbndFthr on June 25, 2013, 10:39:21 PM
I had mixed feelings about him. Now it is clear that he is a traitor. He has gone to out enemies and continues.  I no longer buy his spin on anything.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 26, 2013, 07:07:47 AM
We don't have enemies CHF, Obama hit the reset button, we've gone out of our way to demonize ourselves and arm rebels everywhere no matter how batshyt effing nuts they are, as long as they overthrow regimes that previous rulers not as enlightened as Obama (like the evil Bush's) allowed to thrive, and to restore those to their former glory that were overthrown by those evil leaders...this is the New World Order dontchyaknow?!

He can be called a traitor, but most of those calling him one are some of the biggest piles of treasonous scat living today...like everybody in the Obama Regime, Pelosi et al...sure you want to be on that side of the ledger?

Not me, if it is treason to oppose tyranny, then I am a traitor too.

Original treason goes way back...pieces fell into place one at a time...the unconstitutionally ratified amendments (disputes over the 14th, 15th & 16th), the 1913 Federal Reserve Act, pretty much everything FDR did with the New Deal, gold confiscation et al, Truman and the UN in 1945, the 1947 military & OSS/CIA reorg, 1952 NSA, Nixon ending the gold standard and starting up crap like the EPA, Carter and FISA, all the way up to Prism today.

That is who the real traitors are...everyone who supported this crap from inception!

ETA - ZH has a nice rundown of spying on ourselves, the history of - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-25/complete-annotated-history-spying-ourselves (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-25/complete-annotated-history-spying-ourselves)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: ChrstnHsbndFthr on June 26, 2013, 08:29:41 AM
Libertas, I have great respect for your mind and usually agree with you. But, framing selling information to Russia and China as opposing tyranny strikes me as error.  Had this man exposed what he thinks is tyranny and stayed here or merely gone into hiding to oppose said tyrannical behavior, it would be reasonable to recognize honorable actions. But, he did not. He went to the countries who oppose liberty AND have been working against liberty for a very long time.

Is there ANY way that this many does not know these things, and yet still knows what he is talking about on the other issues? No.

You are correct to note that some of the internal enemies of freedom also consider him a traitor.  But, simply the fact that they agree does not negate the point.  We would all look up at the sky and say it looks like rain sometime this week. Just because the leftist agrees, does that mean I should change my position? Or does the unanimous agreement just point to the obviousness of the facts?

There are ways this Snowden fellow could have done what he did without aiding he Chinese and Russians directly.  It is absolutely CRAZY for a patriot of liberty to put himself in their hands. They WILL know EVERYTHING he knows in short order and there is no way that is good for liberty across the earth, and even less so here.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: IronDioPriest on June 26, 2013, 08:38:28 AM
Our own federal government is the greatest enemy our nation faces. And yes, I mean that.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: IronDioPriest on June 26, 2013, 09:01:51 AM
There are ways this Snowden fellow could have done what he did without aiding he Chinese and Russians directly.  It is absolutely CRAZY for a patriot of liberty to put himself in their hands. They WILL know EVERYTHING he knows in short order and there is no way that is good for liberty across the earth, and even less so here.

Indeed. One thing that would seem to piece it all together - even withstanding the application of Occam's Razor - would be if Snowden was acting on behalf of the Obama Regime.

Ever since the advent of American superpower, other nations of the world have wanted to see us falter; taken down. But until now, we have not had an American regime sharing that same vision.

This regime wants us on our heels. It wants us to know that the noose is tightening, and the days of our liberty are numbered. The release of the information Snowden revealed does nothing to harm the regime. Its spying is still in place, and nothing is being done to stop it. Snowden was the regime's way of letting the American people know that our every communication is now being monitored. Sending him globetrotting is cover to buy the time needed to allow this to play out and sides to be chosen. We have Republicans and Democrats taking sides for or against the unconstitutional surveillance of American citizens without a warrant or probable cause.

The spying hasn't stopped. While the American people argue over the line between security and liberty, Snowden is gone. He is gone someplace where the regime "can't" get him. Perhaps this is the kind of "flexibility" that Obama appealed to Comrade Dmitri to convey to Comrade Vladimir.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Weisshaupt on June 26, 2013, 09:41:22 AM
Our own federal government is the greatest enemy our nation faces. And yes, I mean that.

Then, by extension,  is the enemy of our enemy our friend? Or at least a potential ally? Would then, Russia or China Qualify?

Quote
Ever since the advent of American superpower, other nations of the world have wanted to see us falter; taken down. But until now, we have not had an American regime sharing that same vision.

Do we not also share that vision?  The edifice that exists isn't ours, and has ceased to bear any resemblance to the Republic we are citizens of. The loss of American power in the world is a foregone conclusion.  Avoiding being stomped under a tyrannical boot is now the goal.  An country  in poverty, anarchy and civil war is now PREFERABLE to the police state which is being enacted, for at least in such a brutal conflict we have some hope of emerging free and able to start again.  There is a diminishing list of people who wish to see the Federal Government survive.  More and more saying "let it burn" - I have pinned my hopes on the Financial collapse ruining their power and hold on us. 

If it comes to Civil  war, international help won't go amiss.  No,  Russia doesn't want a free and prosperous America, any more than France did during our first revolutionary war.   France was just enjoying sticking it to England.  Russia or China might just enjoy sticking it to the US Federal Government as well. But when it comes down to it, we now all have the same goal:  the diminished power of the Federal Government now become tyrannical, despotic and unconstitutional.    Heck even if the international "Help"  is just staying out of it, we come out ahead.  Russia will take Europe - and let me say right now, let them have it. It is no less than those socialistic morons deserve.  China will basically control the Pacific Rim, with South America as a trading partner and an  Ally much as Europe was to us, and Africa will be recolonized by both of the new superpowers.

Quote
This regime wants us on our heels. It wants us to know that the noose is tightening, and the days of our liberty are numbered. The release of the information Snowden revealed does nothing to harm the regime. Its spying is still in place, and nothing is being done to stop it. Snowden was the regime's way of letting the American people know that our every communication is now being monitored.

Perhaps, but I think most of us knew ( or at least suspected)  as much anyway.  We all knew that if a list existed, we were on it, our could easily be added just based on our Amazon purchases or credit card statements. Obama has that punk tendency to broadcast his contempt, be it with nose scratches or simple infuriating statements.  Its a low class thuggish nigger acting like a   low class thuggish nigger so that shouldn't be a surprise either.  The regime needs fear to get control. Did learning you were under surveillance inspire fear in you? Or Anger?   At some point Obama is going to have to put boots on the ground, and targets in the field.  At some point he will have to come to your house - or fail to do so, and thus loose his credibility and authority.  There simply isn't the required fear yet. Or maybe I am too stupid to feel it.  I would rather be dead than under a liberals boot.  I don't think the vast majority of them realize yet what that really means.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 26, 2013, 11:42:43 AM
Libertas, I have great respect for your mind and usually agree with you. But, framing selling information to Russia and China as opposing tyranny strikes me as error.  Had this man exposed what he thinks is tyranny and stayed here or merely gone into hiding to oppose said tyrannical behavior, it would be reasonable to recognize honorable actions. But, he did not. He went to the countries who oppose liberty AND have been working against liberty for a very long time.

Is there ANY way that this many does not know these things, and yet still knows what he is talking about on the other issues? No.

You are correct to note that some of the internal enemies of freedom also consider him a traitor.  But, simply the fact that they agree does not negate the point.  We would all look up at the sky and say it looks like rain sometime this week. Just because the leftist agrees, does that mean I should change my position? Or does the unanimous agreement just point to the obviousness of the facts?

There are ways this Snowden fellow could have done what he did without aiding he Chinese and Russians directly.  It is absolutely CRAZY for a patriot of liberty to put himself in their hands. They WILL know EVERYTHING he knows in short order and there is no way that is good for liberty across the earth, and even less so here.

If he had stayed here, his information would not have gotten out, he would have been killed almost immediately it became known he was stepping forward.  I cannot prove the latter without seeing the former so we will never know, but notions of "nation" have to be adjusted in your mind, the "nation" you think exists does not, it has not for a long time...once you see our so-called leaders as an enemy, any designation of what is termed an "enemy" has to take that fact into account.  I am not going to give this Regime any prima facie consideration that they are a friend merely because they aren't those (fill in the bank with foreign nation/element here).
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 26, 2013, 12:22:52 PM

Right, whether he is a conduit for a higher up or was acting on his on volition he received no support from patriot colleagues, they weren't there for him, no comfort, no cover, no guidance.  But the Assange persons who were his colleagues took him under wing. So, now, instead of being "deep throat" hidden in an undisclosed location in the USA he's in the sheltering arms of the anarchists.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Predator Don on June 26, 2013, 01:17:30 PM
The regime needs fear, it feeds off it. Obama could not conjure up a better example of fear than a guy who did not feel secure enough to turn himself over to his own country. Can anyone imagine Snowdens thoughts that he felt the need to go to CHINA? RUSSIA?  Obama is getting the desired result. He could care less who knows what "secrets".

Democrats have been giving China our secrets for over a decade. Bill Clinton. We are using the latest unconstitutional devises to spy on Americans, but we can't secure a border or stop a couple of terrorists from bombing a race. This is not by mistake. This is by design.

I simply do not trust my gov't to do the right thing. Apparently, neither did Snowden. I'd love to think he could do something different than going to the Chinese or Russians, maybe there was another choice, so to do what he did, I can't imagine the pressure this guy felt.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 26, 2013, 09:39:58 PM

Did they really want to arrest him?  It doesn't appear so. 
They didn't even have a proper warrant.

The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/26/edward-snowden-name-wrong-hong-kong) - Hong Kong's justice minister has said the US government got the National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden's middle name wrong in documents it submitted seeking his arrest. ...
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Glock32 on June 26, 2013, 10:58:28 PM
Americans in particular often make the mistake of conflating country/nation with state. They are not one and the same. A nation can have many governments come and go. That is where I am at with ours. I want it to go. I do not consider it legitimate, and soon it will realize naked coercion is the only tool left to it -- which will in turn hasten its demise.

The current government of the USA is a far greater threat to the liberty and prosperity of the American people than either China or Russia are.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 27, 2013, 12:22:41 PM

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-23miqXoo00E/Ucqy-bD_8tI/AAAAAAAAXMQ/vxuxEZpct0E/s1600/ronpaulsnowden.jpg)


Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on June 27, 2013, 01:17:53 PM

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-23miqXoo00E/Ucqy-bD_8tI/AAAAAAAAXMQ/vxuxEZpct0E/s1600/ronpaulsnowden.jpg)

Yes.  And anybody that doesn't know by now that this current regime considers US the ENEMY needs to pull his head out.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 28, 2013, 10:54:30 AM
Americans in particular often make the mistake of conflating country/nation with state. They are not one and the same. A nation can have many governments come and go. That is where I am at with ours. I want it to go. I do not consider it legitimate, and soon it will realize naked coercion is the only tool left to it -- which will in turn hasten its demise.

The current government of the USA is a far greater threat to the liberty and prosperity of the American people than either China or Russia are.

Yes.  We do not have to work that hard or look far off to find a real enemy to our liberty...the enemy is already here and doing battle against us!

 ::upsidedownflag::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on June 29, 2013, 10:16:36 AM

Weasel House:
The Hill (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/308577-rice-snowden-leaks-didnt-weaken-obama) - U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice rejected suggestions that National Security Agency leaks by former contractor Edward Snowden had damaged U.S. foreign policy or weakened President Obama.

“I think that’s bunk,” said Rice...“I think the Snowden thing is obviously something that we will get through, as we've gotten through all the issues like this in the past,” she added.

And, Ms. Rice, what techniques did the administration employ to "get through...issues like this in the past"?

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: benb61 on June 29, 2013, 02:00:45 PM

Weasel House:
The Hill (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/308577-rice-snowden-leaks-didnt-weaken-obama) - U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice rejected suggestions that National Security Agency leaks by former contractor Edward Snowden had damaged U.S. foreign policy or weakened President Obama.

“I think that’s bunk,” said Rice...“I think the Snowden thing is obviously something that we will get through, as we've gotten through all the issues like this in the past,” she added.

And, Ms. Rice, what techniques did the administration employ to "get through...issues like this in the past"?



Let's see, distraction, race baiting, and my favorite "not letting a crisis go to waste".
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: warpmine on June 29, 2013, 08:31:48 PM
Yes, Snowden could have easily gone through channels but obviously those channels were populated by crocs like Graham and Reid who don't give a rat's ass what the regime illegally does. Whistle blowers seem to either lose their jobs or get prosecuted so what's the difference? He may have thrown a code to which the regime would have somehow, had him disappear like Obama's records of history and his previous sexual relationships back at Trinity Church in Chicago. ::foilhathelicopter::

If you had info about illegal govt activity, would you risk it here in the USSA or go abroad and chance it there?

One last statement of fact, we are suppose to be free citizens but as of the last century we seem to be that which we broke from, subjects of the Crown and in this case the Crown is the Federal Reserve bank that cares so much about us little people that it keeps interest rates artificially low so that we haven't any check on inflation forcing us all into the stock market to which most of us know is rigged like a magnet placed on the roulette table wheel.

Newsweek's newest cover should be "We are all enemies now"
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Glock32 on June 30, 2013, 03:20:28 PM
Yes, and those artificially low interest rates mean saving is punished and borrowing (debt) is rewarded. Punish the ant, reward the grasshopper. When it becomes the deliberate policy of an entire economy, combined with bribing one set of voters with the earnings of another set of voters, you have what we have now.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on June 30, 2013, 08:45:11 PM
And as the tyrants boot puts more pressure on the nations throat it will be no surprise when the crap hits the fan that these perpetrators will all be high on the list of the angry mob...words will not save them, lies will not save them, party affiliation will not save them...
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 01, 2013, 07:33:32 AM
OK, now, this is hilarious...

French President Francois Hollande said it must "immediately stop", while a spokesman for Germany's Angela Merkel said "bugging friends is unacceptable".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23125451 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23125451)

The French...  ::)

Whataya gonna do, throw cheese and run away?

 ::hysterical::

If y'all really mean it, well, denounce Obama to his face!  The only way to deal with a punk-ass dictator is to get in their grill, stop being a bunch of cheese-eating surrender monkeys and man up!

Yeah, that'll happen...   ::)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Predator Don on July 01, 2013, 12:59:59 PM
OK, now, this is hilarious...

French President Francois Hollande said it must "immediately stop", while a spokesman for Germany's Angela Merkel said "bugging friends is unacceptable".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23125451 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23125451)

The French...  ::)

Whataya gonna do, throw cheese and run away?

 ::hysterical::

If y'all really mean it, well, denounce Obama to his face!  The only way to deal with a punk-ass dictator is to get in their grill, stop being a bunch of cheese-eating surrender monkeys and man up!

Yeah, that'll happen...   ::)

I can't believe our "friends" only think this an allegation. Obama is bugging all of America, did our "friends" think they were exempt?
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: charlesoakwood on July 01, 2013, 01:14:02 PM

Maybe they will take him to court as they did Microsoft.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Glock32 on July 01, 2013, 07:25:53 PM
This Euro outrage is just a big charade. They're doing this sort of crap too, to their own people and foreign governments as well.  I think the whole thing is merely to give the respective parties political cover, i.e. give Obama phony right-cover because the neo-cons (a word I always vowed never to use because of its overuse) can point at it and say if the Euros are whining about it then it must be ok. The Europeans then get phony cover of their own since it appeals to their reflexively anti-American leftists.

I don't buy for a minute that Europe's political establishment only became aware of this from mainstream news reports.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on July 01, 2013, 07:54:58 PM
This Euro outrage is just a big charade. They're doing this sort of crap too, to their own people and foreign governments as well.  I think the whole thing is merely to give the respective parties political cover, i.e. give Obama phony right-cover because the neo-cons (a word I always vowed never to use because of its overuse) can point at it and say if the Euros are whining about it then it must be ok. The Europeans then get phony cover of their own since it appeals to their reflexively anti-American leftists.

I don't buy for a minute that Europe's political establishment only became aware of this from mainstream news reports.

Yes, the lies and cya's are flying thick and fast and here we stand -- to them -- as sheep ready to be shorn.  Well, they can kiss my sweet Italian ass because I will not assimilate, I will not submit, and I reject them and everything about them.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 02, 2013, 07:09:10 AM
Ahh, yes, we are blessed with wise members here in Libertyville!   ::grouphug::

The Euro statements are completely lacking in credibility...there is no carrythrough with their statements...because if they did then they'd have to explain to their own people their own dirty laundry...

Which brings us to the second tell...why the Obama Regime has not outed the Euro's...certainly the Biggest Big Brother knows...all part of the kabuki...

Snowden update:

1) I have to say, when I read his slamming of Obama, I had to chuckle, that asshat probably isn't used to people blasting him...and being blasted with the truth has to double-sting!

http://www.zerohedge.com/node/475920 (http://www.zerohedge.com/node/475920)

2) Trying to get to one of these 21 nations -

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-01/21-nations-edward-snowden-applying-asylum (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-01/21-nations-edward-snowden-applying-asylum)

Most of those will simply chicken out and deny him...a more independent nation like Iceland or Switzerland makes sense...but even Swiss loyalty can be bought now days...the world ain't what it used to be...
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Glock32 on July 02, 2013, 11:25:49 AM
The level of cooperation between American and European espionage agencies goes back a long way. This phony outrage, as if they're just some aggrieved and innocent bystanders, is comical.

These agencies and their counterparts have routinely been spying on each other's citizens, then sharing the data with that country's home agency. It's their little technocrat way of bypassing strong restrictions against domestic espionage. So hey, it's not domestic espionage if it's technically the British intelligence agencies doing the snooping, and gee whiz it sure was awful nice of them to share everything they collected with their American counterparts. So nice in fact that American agencies might just return the favor and spy on British citizens for the British government.

Thing is, none of this is really as revelatory as people might think. It's the sort of stuff hidden in plain sight for years, just buried in the mountains of dry technocratic white papers.  The US and Britain jointly operate a data hoovering system in Cornwall, England -- the European entry point of transatlantic cables. They siphon off every bit of data coming over those cables.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 02, 2013, 11:40:29 AM
They've been doing that since the first transatlantic cable was dropped IIRC, so yeah, and the more the get away with the more they want to get away with...and here we are.

And part of the orchestrated statements from politards is designed to diffuse public outcry...they still know the mojority of the masses have to be fooled into thinking their outrage is real, that they are doing something about it...so all is well...go back to your escargot or your Dancing With The Stars or whatever...they are on the job!

 ::puke::   ::gaah::

 ::viking::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 03, 2013, 06:50:51 AM
ZH has a nice NYT reprint from a 1999 NYT article on Nixon...the comments liking Nixon & Obama (among others) is humorous but not without merit.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-02/richard-nixon-anything-nsa-did-totally-defensible (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-02/richard-nixon-anything-nsa-did-totally-defensible)

"Barack Millhouse Orwell"  <- - -
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Predator Don on July 03, 2013, 08:21:26 AM
ZH has a nice NYT reprint from a 1999 NYT article on Nixon...the comments liking Nixon & Obama (among others) is humorous but not without merit.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-02/richard-nixon-anything-nsa-did-totally-defensible (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-02/richard-nixon-anything-nsa-did-totally-defensible)

"Barack Millhouse Orwell"  <- - -

Some of the comments are good. Lol
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 07, 2013, 08:06:15 PM
Tell me Snowden would not be treated worse than these State Dept whistleblowers...tell me the government didn't hire some punks to go get these computers...

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/07/cameras_catch_mystery_break_in_at_whistleblowers_law_firm (http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/07/cameras_catch_mystery_break_in_at_whistleblowers_law_firm)

Welcome to latter day America...land of the unfree, home of the enslaved...

ETA - Courtesy of Germany via ZeroHedge...I thought this pic says it all about NSA snooping on everybody -

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/07/stasi%202.0_0.jpg)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-07/what-germany-thinks-biggest-bugging-scandal-history (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-07/what-germany-thinks-biggest-bugging-scandal-history)

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 10, 2013, 07:11:00 AM
Can't help but think  THIS  (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,8494.new.html)is somehow part of the whole Big Brother story...and then  THIS NEWS  (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-09/nsa-has-inserted-its-code-android-os-bugging-three-quarters-all-smartphones) comes out...it is just a steady drip and bad and disturbing...any dumbass thinking the Obama Regime is not worse than the Eeeevil Bush Gubmint is seriously impaired.

The cartoon of our age...and I really don't find it funny...

(http://www.commonsenseevaluation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Question-Authority.jpg)

Oh, and on the Stasi2.0 front - http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/07/dictator-obama-orders-fed-workers-to-spy-on-each-other/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/07/dictator-obama-orders-fed-workers-to-spy-on-each-other/)

 ::gaah::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Predator Don on July 10, 2013, 01:11:08 PM
Can't help but think  THIS  (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,8494.new.html)is somehow part of the whole Big Brother story...and then  THIS NEWS  (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-09/nsa-has-inserted-its-code-android-os-bugging-three-quarters-all-smartphones) comes out...it is just a steady drip and bad and disturbing...any dumbass thinking the Obama Regime is not worse than the Eeeevil Bush Gubmint is seriously impaired.

The cartoon of our age...and I really don't find it funny...

(http://www.commonsenseevaluation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Question-Authority.jpg)

Oh, and on the Stasi2.0 front - http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/07/dictator-obama-orders-fed-workers-to-spy-on-each-other/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/07/dictator-obama-orders-fed-workers-to-spy-on-each-other/)

 ::gaah::


Well, more redundant programs by the Obama administration. We already have the NSA and the IRS spying on EVERYONE, no need to demand an employee to turn in anyone.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 11, 2013, 02:47:52 PM
Sumsabastages!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-11/microsoft-helped-nsa-bypass-its-own-encyrption-software-spy-its-clients (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-11/microsoft-helped-nsa-bypass-its-own-encyrption-software-spy-its-clients)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: benb61 on July 11, 2013, 03:30:03 PM
I remember as a kid, rumors about Soviet Russia and children telling the authorities about suspicious activities of their parents or neighbors tattling on neighbors.  I guess we are Soviet Amerika now.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 12, 2013, 10:29:36 AM
All purposeful...that is - treasonous.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 17, 2013, 12:04:29 PM
SkyNet is growing fast...

Plenty of software...

Growing hardware - http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,8575.0.html (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,8575.0.html)

Last vestiges of Republican protections going out the window - http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,8582.msg102723.html#msg102723 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,8582.msg102723.html#msg102723)

More sub-systems to leverage - http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,8583.new.html (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,8583.new.html)

Dark side rising, plan accordingly.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 18, 2013, 01:28:39 PM
Oops!  More than just "metadata"!

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/07/nsa-admits-it-analyzes-more-peoples-data-previously-revealed/67287/ (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/07/nsa-admits-it-analyzes-more-peoples-data-previously-revealed/67287/)

Now, be a good little free-person and let the grown ups handle the adult stuff...that's a nice little slave, er citizen.

 ::gaah::

 machinegun
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 24, 2013, 09:41:59 AM
Snowden given temporary asylum...

Temporary Asylum for Snowden in Russia (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-24/russia-will-grant-snowden-temporary-asylum-allowing-him-leave-airport)

...as soon as he leaves the transit terminal I fear Obama Regime operatives will either pop his mellon or do a snatch & grab where he'll wake up in a dark dank room somewhere...

 ::foilhathelicopter::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 24, 2013, 11:35:57 AM
WH going apeshyt to stop House attempt to reign in NSA spying...I think they protest too much...it is obvious that nothing can happen without the Senate and their stooge Reid...perhaps they are more vulnerable on this issue than people think...

http://washingtonexaminer.com/white-house-scrambles-to-defeat-bill-to-defund-nsa-program/article/2533418 (http://washingtonexaminer.com/white-house-scrambles-to-defeat-bill-to-defund-nsa-program/article/2533418)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 28, 2013, 08:43:11 PM
More evidence of the ease of intrusion into peoples lives without warrant by the government.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/07/glenn-greenwald-low-level-nsa-analysts-have-powerful-and-invasive-search-tool/ (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/07/glenn-greenwald-low-level-nsa-analysts-have-powerful-and-invasive-search-tool/)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 30, 2013, 07:36:50 AM
Don't like the idea of lookin' like a punk-ass Free Shyt Army jackass...but it would dick with SkyNets facial recognition software.

http://www.zumiez.com/boys/boys-hoodies/full-face-zip-hoodies.html (http://www.zumiez.com/boys/boys-hoodies/full-face-zip-hoodies.html)

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: AlanS on July 30, 2013, 09:46:00 AM
Quote
Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich., chairman of the House Intelligence panel, has vocally supported the program from attacks from those on the right concerned that the program violates constitutional civil liberty protections.

He and all of the rest of the spineless GOP elite should be tried for treason.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 30, 2013, 11:24:21 AM
Quote
Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich., chairman of the House Intelligence panel, has vocally supported the program from attacks from those on the right concerned that the program violates constitutional civil liberty protections.

He and all of the rest of the spineless GOP elite should be tried for treason.

The number of those trying to enslave us is definitely much greater than the number trying to keep us free.

 ::outrage::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 31, 2013, 11:32:30 AM
Another name to remember - XKeyscore: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data)

Hey fascists?  Can you see what my keystrokes are saying now?

F...u...c...k...Y...o...u...!...!...!
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on July 31, 2013, 12:17:46 PM
Apparently the terrorists are winning -- the Fed fascisti, that is -- because some people have withdrawn into their rabbit holes out of fear of being tracked and/or associated-with.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on August 01, 2013, 07:19:42 AM
Even a rabbit has to surface sometime...

Stupid Rabbits!

We need big cats, wolves...predators.

Oh, and this admission is hilarious, ludicrous and disturbing all at the same time...

NSA admits storing all your data, but they don't look at it... (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-31/nsa-admits-we-do-store-all-your-data-we-dont-look-it-all)

And Bill Clinton didn't inhale...
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on August 01, 2013, 11:39:34 AM
Even a rabbit has to surface sometime...

Stupid Rabbits!

We need big cats, wolves...predators.

Oh, and this admission is hilarious, ludicrous and disturbing all at the same time...

NSA admits storing all your data, but they don't look at it... (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-31/nsa-admits-we-do-store-all-your-data-we-dont-look-it-all)

And Bill Clinton didn't inhale...

Unh hunh -- Michele Bachmann, call your office ........
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on August 01, 2013, 11:56:17 AM
Even a rabbit has to surface sometime...

Stupid Rabbits!

We need big cats, wolves...predators.

Oh, and this admission is hilarious, ludicrous and disturbing all at the same time...

NSA admits storing all your data, but they don't look at it... (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-31/nsa-admits-we-do-store-all-your-data-we-dont-look-it-all)

And Bill Clinton didn't inhale...

Unh hunh -- Michele Bachmann, call your office ........

...that delay you are experiencing is just your friendly neighborhood NSA spook listening in...all is well...



 ::gaah::



Proof?

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/08/government-knocking-doors-because-google-searches/67864/ (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/08/government-knocking-doors-because-google-searches/67864/)

Everbody on the planet should Google this all at the same time...

 ::evilbat::

ETA - And more on the Big Brother front -

1)  What Google knows (and therefore the NSA and Obama Regime as well) - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-01/what-google-knows-about-you (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-01/what-google-knows-about-you)

2)  Perversion of language, an old leftist SOP we've been battling for a century! - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-01/how-nsa-manipulates-language-mislead-public (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-01/how-nsa-manipulates-language-mislead-public)

Options for us regular liberty-loving folk?

https://duckduckgo.com/ (https://duckduckgo.com/)

https://www.torproject.org/ (https://www.torproject.org/)

https://www.hushmail.com/ (https://www.hushmail.com/)

And though I haven't vetted all of this data, worth posting and letting people peruse the data themselves - https://s3.amazonaws.com/sm-cdn/reports/NSA-Black-Paper.pdf (https://s3.amazonaws.com/sm-cdn/reports/NSA-Black-Paper.pdf)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on August 07, 2013, 11:38:40 AM
Hilarious...Barry, in a petulant mood since Putin allowed Snowden asylum in Russia, cancels scheduled meeting...

...isn't that like Putin being told he doesn't have to step in a turd?

And this blurb at SDA -

"He's Also Returning The Bust Of Lenin"

http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/ (http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/)

 ::hysterical::

ETA - Putin: "This decision is clearly linked to the situation with former agent of US special services [Edward] Snowden, which hasn't been created by us,"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-07/russias-responds-obama-snub-we-are-disappointed-snowden-situation-wasnt-created-us (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-07/russias-responds-obama-snub-we-are-disappointed-snowden-situation-wasnt-created-us)

Heh, even to an old Cold Warrior like myself I can appreciate the fine riposte delivered by Vlad.  He is 100% correct!

And, more background on NSA vacuuming - http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/08/us/broader-sifting-of-data-abroad-is-seen-by-nsa.html?hp&_r=1& (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/08/us/broader-sifting-of-data-abroad-is-seen-by-nsa.html?hp&_r=1&)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on August 13, 2013, 07:25:24 AM
Here's a fricken awesome idea, and the MFM won't give a shyt either...let's have the guy lying to Congress head up the Regime's intel review panel so he can lie some more!  Amerika, gets Clappered again, f**k yeah! 

http://weaselzippers.us/2013/08/12/obama-picks-the-man-who-lied-to-congress-about-existence-of-nsas-domestic-spying-to-choose-his-intelligence-review-panel/ (http://weaselzippers.us/2013/08/12/obama-picks-the-man-who-lied-to-congress-about-existence-of-nsas-domestic-spying-to-choose-his-intelligence-review-panel/)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on August 16, 2013, 07:44:14 AM
And...this is just what is being reported...from an internal audit!   ;)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-broke-privacy-rules-thousands-of-times-per-year-audit-finds/2013/08/15/3310e554-05ca-11e3-a07f-49ddc7417125_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-broke-privacy-rules-thousands-of-times-per-year-audit-finds/2013/08/15/3310e554-05ca-11e3-a07f-49ddc7417125_story.html)

But hey, Congress, lets keep funding the $60m analysis lab in NC, OK?!  Yeah, that's the ticket!  Amerika, f**k yeah!

http://www.infowars.com/nsa-funds-new-top-secret-60-million-dollar-data-lab/ (http://www.infowars.com/nsa-funds-new-top-secret-60-million-dollar-data-lab/)

 ::facepalm::

 ::gaah::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Predator Don on August 17, 2013, 02:48:39 PM
http://washingtonexaminer.com/irs-agent-tax-agency-is-still-targeting-tea-party-groups/article/2534044 (http://washingtonexaminer.com/irs-agent-tax-agency-is-still-targeting-tea-party-groups/article/2534044)


In a remarkable admission that is likely to rock the Internal Revenue Service again, testimony released Thursday by House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp reveals that an agent involved in reviewing tax exempt applications from conservative groups told a committee investigator that the agency is still targeting Tea Party groups, three months after the IRS scandal erupted.


When there is no fear of retribution.....The behavior doesn't stop.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on August 18, 2013, 08:08:41 PM
http://washingtonexaminer.com/irs-agent-tax-agency-is-still-targeting-tea-party-groups/article/2534044 (http://washingtonexaminer.com/irs-agent-tax-agency-is-still-targeting-tea-party-groups/article/2534044)


In a remarkable admission that is likely to rock the Internal Revenue Service again, testimony released Thursday by House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp reveals that an agent involved in reviewing tax exempt applications from conservative groups told a committee investigator that the agency is still targeting Tea Party groups, three months after the IRS scandal erupted.


When there is no fear of retribution.....The behavior doesn't stop.

Again I ask, who will stop them?  Pubbies?  Courts?  Armed angry citizens?

 ::gaah::

And it gets worse...

IRS in the enforcement agent for ObamaCare, we all know what a monumentally disasterous threat this poses to individual liberty, but the HHS is making it easy for the ObamaCare "Navigators" to be any trash the Regime wants to dump into it...further endangering personal liberty.

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/317513-state-attorneys-general-raise-privacy-concerns-over-obamacare-navigators (http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/317513-state-attorneys-general-raise-privacy-concerns-over-obamacare-navigators)

They'll be giving us all the mark of the beast soon enough...

 ::gaah::

In other news...must be a lot of data-stealin' going on at that Utah facility to need this much water to cool all them servers!

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=25978926&fm=related_story&s_cid=article-related-3 (http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=25978926&fm=related_story&s_cid=article-related-3)

Think it's still just metadata?  Yeaahhhhh, right!

On the plus side, I guess, Obama lost Sulu!

"And we're watching YOU, Mr. Obama. And your NSA." - GeorgeTakei
http://twitchy.com/2013/08/19/when-youve-lost-sulu-george-takei-photo-slams-obama-nsa-surveillance/ (http://twitchy.com/2013/08/19/when-youve-lost-sulu-george-takei-photo-slams-obama-nsa-surveillance/)

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Sectionhand on August 21, 2013, 04:48:00 AM
I don't know what it is with poofters these days . First it's Bradley Manning and now Glenn Greenwald and his boyfriend . Looks like "whistles" aren't the only things being blown out there .
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on August 21, 2013, 07:14:17 AM
I don't know what it is with poofters these days . First it's Bradley Manning and now Glenn Greenwald and his boyfriend . Looks like "whistles" aren't the only things being blown out there .

 ::hysterical::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on August 21, 2013, 07:21:10 AM
And, then there is this - Blarney, Fairview, Oakstar, Lithium and Stormbrew, ohh my!!! (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-20/how-nsa-scours-75-nations-internet-traffic-one-chart)

Seriously, who names this crap?  Andy Dick?

Anyway, sounds like it can be easily defeated...just overwhelm the system, turn on all your water faucets (especially if you are in Utah!) and send sh*tloads of emails with all the nice buzzwords in them and remember our low-tech history!  (Hint: "wound my heart with a monotonous langour" & dead drops)

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Weisshaupt on August 21, 2013, 02:52:11 PM
Full Blown fascists (http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/nsa-crushes-free-speech-on-t-shirts/)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Predator Don on August 21, 2013, 03:11:41 PM
Full Blown fascists (http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/nsa-crushes-free-speech-on-t-shirts/)



 Their "intellectual" property? Yes, full blown fascists.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Predator Don on August 21, 2013, 03:18:56 PM
The US government cannot copyright anything it produces. I would hope this would cause a public relations nightmare for them.....But I live in the new America today, one where no one cares.

Intimidation of citizens. Is there not one person within the NSA leadership who understands the folly in this?
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on August 22, 2013, 10:42:12 AM
Defiance is called for.  We should all be getting/making such t-shirts...let them come.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on August 24, 2013, 04:37:09 PM
If this can happen...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10263880/NSA-employees-spied-on-their-lovers-using-eavesdropping-programme.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10263880/NSA-employees-spied-on-their-lovers-using-eavesdropping-programme.html)

...just think about what you don't know but suspect!

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on August 26, 2013, 07:09:16 AM
Check this out - http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=8777.new#new (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=8777.new#new)

 ::gaah::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on September 02, 2013, 04:48:28 PM
Hilarious...they want "answers"?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_BRAZIL_NSA_LEADERS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-09-02-00-01-32 (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_BRAZIL_NSA_LEADERS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-09-02-00-01-32)

Yeah, well...get in line pal!  At least you have an ambassador to call on the carpet!  What do we have?  Feckless bed-wetting Pubbies questioning professional liars like Holder, Clapper...(insert name of Obama Regime asshat here!)?

Yeah, I feel your pain.

Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on September 06, 2013, 07:51:37 AM
Yeah...how's that "only metadata" meme going?

NSA Motto - There are no secrets...from us.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/us/nsa-foils-much-internet-encryption.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/us/nsa-foils-much-internet-encryption.html?_r=0)

Yeah, this will all end well, I'm sure of it, really, what's to worry about?
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on September 08, 2013, 10:16:39 AM
Well, well, well...lookie what we have here?!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-administration-had-restrictions-on-nsa-reversed-in-2011/2013/09/07/c26ef658-0fe5-11e3-85b6-d27422650fd5_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-administration-had-restrictions-on-nsa-reversed-in-2011/2013/09/07/c26ef658-0fe5-11e3-85b6-d27422650fd5_story.html)

Hmm, 2008 the Government requested the restriction on NSA data gathering and retention.  Huh.  Who was POTUS then, in 2008?  Oh, that would be leftist-alleged violator of privacy rights, the nefarious George W Bush!

And in 2011 the Government "secretly" had that ban reversed and had the retention of data extended to 6 years!

Hmm, who was POTUS in 2011 again?  Oh yeah, that clown we still have, that paragon of privacy and all things virtuous Barrack Hussein Obama!

Bush-Hitler?   ::hysterical:: 

Obama makes Bush look, well, Bush League!

All Hail Adolph Obama!!!

/
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on October 25, 2013, 07:34:26 AM
Snowden throws feces in 0'Zer0's face again!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/24/nsa-surveillance-world-leaders-calls (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/24/nsa-surveillance-world-leaders-calls)

Hilarious.  Of course everybody does it, but it must be a blast not being 0'Zer0 and be able to rake him over the coals for this!

 ::hysterical::

ETA - But of more concern to us citizens...er, peons as the Regime sees us...


Today, no telephone in America makes a call without leaving a record with the NSA. Today, no Internet transaction enters or leaves America without passing through the NSA's hands," Snowden said in a statement Thursday.


"Our representatives in Congress tell us this is not surveillance. They're wrong."


Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/330497-snowden-fires-back-at-feinstein-over-surveillance-claim#ixzz2ijlVSc1o (http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/330497-snowden-fires-back-at-feinstein-over-surveillance-claim#ixzz2ijlVSc1o)
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on October 25, 2013, 02:40:01 PM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-25/fact-or-fiction-nsa-unveils-internal-patriot-discovery-protocol (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-25/fact-or-fiction-nsa-unveils-internal-patriot-discovery-protocol)

They got their list...and I got mine...

Fair is fair!

 ;)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on October 29, 2013, 07:38:29 AM
Obama - The spying will continue so STFU!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-28/false-alarm-obama-will-continue-spying-allies-after-all (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-28/false-alarm-obama-will-continue-spying-allies-after-all)

Nero hath spoke...now, OBEY!

Somebody needs to teach this punk a lesson!

ETA - NSA pushback, getting tired of SCoaMF acting like he doesn't know/didn't authorize jack sh*t routine...

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-spying-phones-20131029,0,3235295.story#axzz2j9aVARtS (http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-spying-phones-20131029,0,3235295.story#axzz2j9aVARtS)

 ::smallestviolin::

You made your bed spymasters, rectify it or obey your master, those are the only two options you got!
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on November 01, 2013, 12:07:37 PM
Rand Paul: NSA Says Collecting Bulk Data On Americans Is Not Spying, They’ve Lost Credibility (http://im41.com/archives/40551)

We are in the "No, sh*t?!" era still...

Wake me up when we're in the "Purging sh*t!" era...
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on November 26, 2013, 07:48:39 AM
Snowden's "Doomsday Cache" (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/25/us-usa-security-doomsday-idUSBRE9AO0Y120131125) concerns US & British spooks.

Must be one hell of a insurance policy...that much encryption and precaution is impressive, and if it is a ruse it is one hell of a good one!
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on December 05, 2013, 12:00:15 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-tracking-cellphone-locations-worldwide-snowden-documents-show/2013/12/04/5492873a-5cf2-11e3-bc56-c6ca94801fac_print.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-tracking-cellphone-locations-worldwide-snowden-documents-show/2013/12/04/5492873a-5cf2-11e3-bc56-c6ca94801fac_print.html)

If Snowden says they collect in bulk to sift details out of later...I am inclined to believe it...it has the ring of truth.

And like I trust the fascists are restricting themselves outside the US...they've proven that wrong several times over already!

Speaking of lying fascist scum...

Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-WI), the original author of the Patriot Act, called on Congress to prosecute National Intelligence Director James Clapper for lying under oath to Congress. (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/12/gop-rep-says-director-clapper-should-be-prosecuted-for-lying-to-congress/)

Ironic.

Sadly, the list of people to string up for treason would make the streets of DC run red with blood...who is innocent?  Let's start from there and then get to work!
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on December 16, 2013, 11:58:00 AM
What a pile of steaming Obama!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/15/nsa-edward-snowden-amnesty-documents (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/15/nsa-edward-snowden-amnesty-documents)

Don't be a fool Snowden!  They have no intention of giving you amnesty...they want you to get locked away in a dark hole somewhere for life or a swift prosecution and execution!

This is a sucker play!  They are pretending to want to know the extent of the information you took (which they already know!) and pretending to be stand up guys (which they are not!)...tell them to kiss your ass!
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on December 19, 2013, 08:15:20 AM
NSA Goon - “I have some reforms for the First Amendment.”

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-18/nsa-official-i-have-some-reforms-first-amendment (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-18/nsa-official-i-have-some-reforms-first-amendment)

I see your hostility to the 1st and raise with the 2nd.

Call, Raise or Fold?
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on January 04, 2014, 12:09:12 PM
Not sure if this will go anywhere...all those naked dwarf pics of judges out there and whatnot...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/01/03/Rand-Paul-to-Sue-Obama-over-NSA-Spying (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/01/03/Rand-Paul-to-Sue-Obama-over-NSA-Spying)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on January 15, 2014, 11:47:55 AM
Another in a long line of stupid statments...

Congresscritters asking the Regime to disclose itemized black budget spending....and we needed Snowden to tell us the grand total is $52B?

http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/14/congress-to-intelligence-community-show-me-the-money/# (http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/14/congress-to-intelligence-community-show-me-the-money/#)!

 ::cussing:: Congressweasle!  You make the budget, cut it you stupid fothermucker!

 ::cussing::  idiots!

 ::pullhair::

Also...another one of those "if they are doing it there, are they doing it here" items...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/15/us/nsa-effort-pries-open-computers-not-connected-to-internet.html?hp&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/15/us/nsa-effort-pries-open-computers-not-connected-to-internet.html?hp&_r=0)

...wonder how Vlad et al feel about this?
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on January 17, 2014, 11:54:03 AM
Wow.

Lookie how much has NOT changed!

http://www.nationaljournal.com/white-house/obama-s-nsa-proposals-fall-far-short-of-real-change-20140117 (http://www.nationaljournal.com/white-house/obama-s-nsa-proposals-fall-far-short-of-real-change-20140117)

Welcome to Amerika, chumps!

May the Peace, Security and Prosperity of Obama the Merciful be upon you (and choke you DEAD!)...
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on February 11, 2014, 11:15:14 AM
“I want Maryland standing with its back to its people holding a shield. Not facing them holding a sword,”

Somebody who gets it.

Sure hope this works!

If all it does is get the Fedcoats to roll tanks in and restore service by force, it will be worth it!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/02/11/maryland-lawmakers-want-to-cut-water-electricity-to-nsa-headquarters/?intcmp=latestnews (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/02/11/maryland-lawmakers-want-to-cut-water-electricity-to-nsa-headquarters/?intcmp=latestnews)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on February 20, 2014, 08:01:22 AM
Feinswine - I love the NSA!  More please!  Our civil liberties are just fine (So long as you got nothing to hide!  Why would you hide anything?!)

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-feinstein-nsa-foreign-policy-20140219,0,7661713.story#axzz2trruhDHn (http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-feinstein-nsa-foreign-policy-20140219,0,7661713.story#axzz2trruhDHn)

She's a witch!  What do we do with witches?!

Dem's - How do we do this illegal shyt and make it look more legal and cover our rotten asses at the same time?

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/198758-dems-demand-feds-reform-fbi-letters (http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/198758-dems-demand-feds-reform-fbi-letters)

Fail! 

Or is it?  Who's paying attention, who is doing anything?

?
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on February 26, 2014, 02:48:50 PM
Obama - Increase that damned NSA database!!!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-26/obama-asks-court-make-nsa-database-even-bigger (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-26/obama-asks-court-make-nsa-database-even-bigger)

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss291/libertasinfinitio/Warnings/20130926_wtf_0_zpsf596c7a8.jpg)

BITS!

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss291/libertasinfinitio/Warnings/us-capitol-building-and_Torches_01_zpseac2d1ca.jpg)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on February 28, 2014, 07:22:05 AM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-27/yes-government-spying-you-through-your-webcam-%E2%80%93-another-%E2%80%9Cconspiracy-theory%E2%80%9D-proven-t (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-27/yes-government-spying-you-through-your-webcam-%E2%80%93-another-%E2%80%9Cconspiracy-theory%E2%80%9D-proven-t)

I'll have to remember to flip the bird and flash the buns more often I guess...I mean it's not like anybody is rushing to stop all the snooping...
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: oldcoastie6468 on February 28, 2014, 07:59:25 AM
It doesn't say, but I assume it's only when the webcam is operating. I never use mine.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on February 28, 2014, 11:32:44 AM
Kinda like our cell phones, they can turn those on at will too, ya know?
Title: Wiretapping: Bush vs. Obama
Post by: oldcoastie6468 on March 01, 2014, 10:21:22 AM
(http://s25.postimg.org/5sc75tjzz/Wiretapping.jpg)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on March 13, 2014, 07:31:31 AM
Hotel Oscar Lima Yankee...Sierra Hotel India Tango!

Is there anything they cannot and will not do? 

Implants!

Turbine, Unitedrake, Captivatedaudience, Gumfish, Foggybottom, Grok, Salvagerabbit...Quantumsky.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-12/most-evil-and-disturbing-nsa-spy-practices-date-have-just-been-revealed (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-12/most-evil-and-disturbing-nsa-spy-practices-date-have-just-been-revealed)

 ::outrage::

There will be a time where it will become necessary for the New Sons and Daughters of Liberty to flood the system with spam!


Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on March 16, 2014, 03:05:34 PM
Feinswine - I love the NSA!  More please!  Our civil liberties are just fine (So long as you got nothing to hide!  Why would you hide anything?!)

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-feinstein-nsa-foreign-policy-20140219,0,7661713.story#axzz2trruhDHn (http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-feinstein-nsa-foreign-policy-20140219,0,7661713.story#axzz2trruhDHn)

She's a witch!  What do we do with witches?!

Dem's - How do we do this illegal shyt and make it look more legal and cover our rotten asses at the same time?

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/198758-dems-demand-feds-reform-fbi-letters (http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/198758-dems-demand-feds-reform-fbi-letters)

Fail! 

Or is it?  Who's paying attention, who is doing anything?

?

Yeah, Feinswine not so happy about NSA/CIA spying now, is she?

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/559efafa5a10b5c1c52adcb0f66a7e42/tumblr_n2hbywd9EK1qz9bu3o1_1280.png)

http://kaching.tumblr.com/ (http://kaching.tumblr.com/)
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on March 16, 2014, 03:21:56 PM
Same as it ever was.

God, I loath politicians!

 ::asskicking::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on March 18, 2014, 02:39:15 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-surveillance-program-reaches-into-the-past-to-retrieve-replay-phone-calls/2014/03/18/226d2646-ade9-11e3-a49e-76adc9210f19_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-surveillance-program-reaches-into-the-past-to-retrieve-replay-phone-calls/2014/03/18/226d2646-ade9-11e3-a49e-76adc9210f19_story.html)

Now we can add MYSTIC and RETRO to our statist lexicon.

Everything is awesome, ain't it?

/
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on March 21, 2014, 11:50:15 AM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/20/why-the-nsa-tried-to-keep-its-water-use-a-secret/ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/20/why-the-nsa-tried-to-keep-its-water-use-a-secret/)

Fedcoats...   ::bashing::

 ::laserkill::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Pandora on March 21, 2014, 12:47:34 PM
http://washingtonexaminer.com/navy-database-tracks-civilians-parking-tickets-fender-benders-raising-fears-of-domestic-spying/article/2546038 (http://washingtonexaminer.com/navy-database-tracks-civilians-parking-tickets-fender-benders-raising-fears-of-domestic-spying/article/2546038)

Quote
LinX [Law Enforcement Information Exchange] is a national information-sharing hub for federal, state and local law enforcement agencies. It is run by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, raising concerns among some military law experts that putting such detailed data about ordinary citizens in the hands of military officials crosses the line that generally prohibits the armed forces from conducting civilian law enforcement operations.

Those fears are heightened by recent disclosures of the National Security Agency spying on Americans, and the CIA allegedly spying on Congress, they say.

Eugene Fidell, who teaches military law at Yale Law School, called LinX “domestic spying.”

... Why LinX wound up in the NCIS, a military law enforcement agency, is not clear. Current NCIS officials could not explain the reasoning, other than to say it grew out of the department's need for access to law enforcement records relevant to criminal investigations.
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on March 22, 2014, 02:41:28 PM
Yeah I read that earlier...the Fedcoat reach grows, and just wait, more alphabet outfits will want access.  Link it with SkyNet and Drones and off we go...
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on April 04, 2014, 06:44:16 AM
Once again Fedspeak words like "reform" and "comprehensive" and "overhaul" never mean what they say, they are just meaningless euphamisms tossed at us like darts to hide the wounds done to the people of a no-longer functioning republic...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/03/us-usa-security-obama-idUSBREA3228O20140403 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/03/us-usa-security-obama-idUSBREA3228O20140403)

Overhaul...

Yes, because in Fedcoat minds, more is always better...and the animals lining up at the trough keep demanding more and more and more...

This is a zero sum event...they get more, guess who gets less and less?!

New acronym?!  CMY - Critcal Mass Yet?!
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on April 07, 2014, 11:34:07 AM
Figures!

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=11085.new#new (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=11085.new#new)

 ::facepalm::
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 01, 2014, 06:56:48 AM
The courts (ha!) give the Fedcoats unlimited power...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/court-gave-nsa-broad-leeway-in-surveillance-documents-show/2014/06/30/32b872ec-fae4-11e3-8176-f2c941cf35f1_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/court-gave-nsa-broad-leeway-in-surveillance-documents-show/2014/06/30/32b872ec-fae4-11e3-8176-f2c941cf35f1_story.html)

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/list-of-foreign-governments-and-organizations-authorized-for-surveillance/1133/ (http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/list-of-foreign-governments-and-organizations-authorized-for-surveillance/1133/)

Lookie at all them (cough!) allies (cough!)!

And I am sure no American citizen was ever harmed by this harmless and necessary Federal power...

/
Title: Re: PRISM and Fed spying
Post by: Libertas on July 07, 2014, 07:31:10 AM
Mostly innocent caught in the NSA vacuum...per Snowden...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-nsa-intercepted-data-those-not-targeted-far-outnumber-the-foreigners-who-are/2014/07/05/8139adf8-045a-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-nsa-intercepted-data-those-not-targeted-far-outnumber-the-foreigners-who-are/2014/07/05/8139adf8-045a-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html)

...makes sense when your methods involves the mass collection of data...

...what could possibly be/go wrong?