Topic: PRISM and Fed spying

[charlesoakwood]

Ecuador via Russia, Cuba & Venezuela?

Ecuadorean Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino, visiting Vietnam, tweeted: "The Government of Ecuador has received an asylum request from Edward J. #Snowden."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/23/us-usa-security-flight-idUSBRE95M02H20130623

Every spook and assassin on the payroll and every freelance killer on the planet looking for a fat payday or going to be flocking to this guy like vultures.

On the plus side these economies should get a short-term boost with all that travel and hotel action...not to mention the bar tabs and hooker fees.

ETA - Plans changed, something spooked him, still in Russia, and Russia is not reacting kindly to US demands.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/24/us-usa-security-flight-idUSBRE95M02H20130624

Regime thugs threatening other countries to knuckle under to their demands...

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/former-nsa-contractor-snowden-leaves-hong-kong-moscow-080843121.html

He did a good thing bringing awareness of the NSA and what it's doing to US citizens to public consciousness.

It's a confusing tale, he shouldn't have had to leave the country.
Leaving the country being necessary he shouldn't have gone to an
adversarial nation.  Probability: the only persons giving him aid and
comfort to do the right thing was bad company. And that's a
shame.

ETA: "In other words, Russia is now willing and eager to "force" Snowden to make a faux pas just so it has every reason to end up with the 30 year old in a dark, sound proof room. And just like that Obama's headaches are set to become much, much worse."

From the beginning the administration has screwed up and done nothing but push Snowden further into the arms of villains while agitating and annoying at least and at best giving contrary world powers another lever against us. FOOLS.

[Pandora]

He couldn't go to an ally (presupposing we even have any these days) because he'd have risked arrest and extradition.  Wretchard at PJMedia has a piece up today about Snowdon and the issue, saying the man's days are numbered and he won't end well.  I tend to agree.  Once he decided his course of action, none of his choices were good.

[Libertas]

I still contend he is a proxy for somebody higher up the food chain, he may have been in the business, but I don't think this script was all his, and yeah I said from the start I think this poor fellow is dead man walking...no way will the Feds allow him to live in peace.  I think they snuffed a reporter, in addition to an Ambassador and a couple of former SEALs and perhaps some active duty SEALs and other Special Operators, oh and an ATF agent...what's one more dead body to these tyrants?

And I wouldn't put much stock in that quote about "...Obama's headaches...", he may GAS about how people view him, but he doesn't GAFF how people view the US...I bet the worse they think the better he thinks he's doing his job...his job being to destroy inside and out...

[ChrstnHsbndFthr]

I had mixed feelings about him. Now it is clear that he is a traitor. He has gone to out enemies and continues.  I no longer buy his spin on anything.

[Libertas]

We don't have enemies CHF, Obama hit the reset button, we've gone out of our way to demonize ourselves and arm rebels everywhere no matter how batshyt effing nuts they are, as long as they overthrow regimes that previous rulers not as enlightened as Obama (like the evil Bush's) allowed to thrive, and to restore those to their former glory that were overthrown by those evil leaders...this is the New World Order dontchyaknow?!

He can be called a traitor, but most of those calling him one are some of the biggest piles of treasonous scat living today...like everybody in the Obama Regime, Pelosi et al...sure you want to be on that side of the ledger?

Not me, if it is treason to oppose tyranny, then I am a traitor too.

Original treason goes way back...pieces fell into place one at a time...the unconstitutionally ratified amendments (disputes over the 14th, 15th & 16th), the 1913 Federal Reserve Act, pretty much everything FDR did with the New Deal, gold confiscation et al, Truman and the UN in 1945, the 1947 military & OSS/CIA reorg, 1952 NSA, Nixon ending the gold standard and starting up crap like the EPA, Carter and FISA, all the way up to Prism today.

That is who the real traitors are...everyone who supported this crap from inception!

ETA - ZH has a nice rundown of spying on ourselves, the history of - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-25/complete-annotated-history-spying-ourselves

[ChrstnHsbndFthr]

Libertas, I have great respect for your mind and usually agree with you. But, framing selling information to Russia and China as opposing tyranny strikes me as error.  Had this man exposed what he thinks is tyranny and stayed here or merely gone into hiding to oppose said tyrannical behavior, it would be reasonable to recognize honorable actions. But, he did not. He went to the countries who oppose liberty AND have been working against liberty for a very long time.

Is there ANY way that this many does not know these things, and yet still knows what he is talking about on the other issues? No.

You are correct to note that some of the internal enemies of freedom also consider him a traitor.  But, simply the fact that they agree does not negate the point.  We would all look up at the sky and say it looks like rain sometime this week. Just because the leftist agrees, does that mean I should change my position? Or does the unanimous agreement just point to the obviousness of the facts?

There are ways this Snowden fellow could have done what he did without aiding he Chinese and Russians directly.  It is absolutely CRAZY for a patriot of liberty to put himself in their hands. They WILL know EVERYTHING he knows in short order and there is no way that is good for liberty across the earth, and even less so here.

[IronDioPriest]

Our own federal government is the greatest enemy our nation faces. And yes, I mean that.

[IronDioPriest]

There are ways this Snowden fellow could have done what he did without aiding he Chinese and Russians directly.  It is absolutely CRAZY for a patriot of liberty to put himself in their hands. They WILL know EVERYTHING he knows in short order and there is no way that is good for liberty across the earth, and even less so here.

Indeed. One thing that would seem to piece it all together - even withstanding the application of Occam's Razor - would be if Snowden was acting on behalf of the Obama Regime.

Ever since the advent of American superpower, other nations of the world have wanted to see us falter; taken down. But until now, we have not had an American regime sharing that same vision.

This regime wants us on our heels. It wants us to know that the noose is tightening, and the days of our liberty are numbered. The release of the information Snowden revealed does nothing to harm the regime. Its spying is still in place, and nothing is being done to stop it. Snowden was the regime's way of letting the American people know that our every communication is now being monitored. Sending him globetrotting is cover to buy the time needed to allow this to play out and sides to be chosen. We have Republicans and Democrats taking sides for or against the unconstitutional surveillance of American citizens without a warrant or probable cause.

The spying hasn't stopped. While the American people argue over the line between security and liberty, Snowden is gone. He is gone someplace where the regime "can't" get him. Perhaps this is the kind of "flexibility" that Obama appealed to Comrade Dmitri to convey to Comrade Vladimir.

[Weisshaupt]

Our own federal government is the greatest enemy our nation faces. And yes, I mean that.

Then, by extension,  is the enemy of our enemy our friend? Or at least a potential ally? Would then, Russia or China Qualify?

Ever since the advent of American superpower, other nations of the world have wanted to see us falter; taken down. But until now, we have not had an American regime sharing that same vision.

Do we not also share that vision?  The edifice that exists isn't ours, and has ceased to bear any resemblance to the Republic we are citizens of. The loss of American power in the world is a foregone conclusion.  Avoiding being stomped under a tyrannical boot is now the goal.  An country  in poverty, anarchy and civil war is now PREFERABLE to the police state which is being enacted, for at least in such a brutal conflict we have some hope of emerging free and able to start again.  There is a diminishing list of people who wish to see the Federal Government survive.  More and more saying "let it burn" - I have pinned my hopes on the Financial collapse ruining their power and hold on us. 

If it comes to Civil  war, international help won't go amiss.  No,  Russia doesn't want a free and prosperous America, any more than France did during our first revolutionary war.   France was just enjoying sticking it to England.  Russia or China might just enjoy sticking it to the US Federal Government as well. But when it comes down to it, we now all have the same goal:  the diminished power of the Federal Government now become tyrannical, despotic and unconstitutional.    Heck even if the international "Help"  is just staying out of it, we come out ahead.  Russia will take Europe - and let me say right now, let them have it. It is no less than those socialistic morons deserve.  China will basically control the Pacific Rim, with South America as a trading partner and an  Ally much as Europe was to us, and Africa will be recolonized by both of the new superpowers.

This regime wants us on our heels. It wants us to know that the noose is tightening, and the days of our liberty are numbered. The release of the information Snowden revealed does nothing to harm the regime. Its spying is still in place, and nothing is being done to stop it. Snowden was the regime's way of letting the American people know that our every communication is now being monitored.

Perhaps, but I think most of us knew ( or at least suspected)  as much anyway.  We all knew that if a list existed, we were on it, our could easily be added just based on our Amazon purchases or credit card statements. Obama has that punk tendency to broadcast his contempt, be it with nose scratches or simple infuriating statements.  Its a low class thuggish nigger acting like a   low class thuggish nigger so that shouldn't be a surprise either.  The regime needs fear to get control. Did learning you were under surveillance inspire fear in you? Or Anger?   At some point Obama is going to have to put boots on the ground, and targets in the field.  At some point he will have to come to your house - or fail to do so, and thus loose his credibility and authority.  There simply isn't the required fear yet. Or maybe I am too stupid to feel it.  I would rather be dead than under a liberals boot.  I don't think the vast majority of them realize yet what that really means.

[Libertas]

Libertas, I have great respect for your mind and usually agree with you. But, framing selling information to Russia and China as opposing tyranny strikes me as error.  Had this man exposed what he thinks is tyranny and stayed here or merely gone into hiding to oppose said tyrannical behavior, it would be reasonable to recognize honorable actions. But, he did not. He went to the countries who oppose liberty AND have been working against liberty for a very long time.

Is there ANY way that this many does not know these things, and yet still knows what he is talking about on the other issues? No.

You are correct to note that some of the internal enemies of freedom also consider him a traitor.  But, simply the fact that they agree does not negate the point.  We would all look up at the sky and say it looks like rain sometime this week. Just because the leftist agrees, does that mean I should change my position? Or does the unanimous agreement just point to the obviousness of the facts?

There are ways this Snowden fellow could have done what he did without aiding he Chinese and Russians directly.  It is absolutely CRAZY for a patriot of liberty to put himself in their hands. They WILL know EVERYTHING he knows in short order and there is no way that is good for liberty across the earth, and even less so here.

If he had stayed here, his information would not have gotten out, he would have been killed almost immediately it became known he was stepping forward.  I cannot prove the latter without seeing the former so we will never know, but notions of "nation" have to be adjusted in your mind, the "nation" you think exists does not, it has not for a long time...once you see our so-called leaders as an enemy, any designation of what is termed an "enemy" has to take that fact into account.  I am not going to give this Regime any prima facie consideration that they are a friend merely because they aren't those (fill in the bank with foreign nation/element here).

[charlesoakwood]

Right, whether he is a conduit for a higher up or was acting on his on volition he received no support from patriot colleagues, they weren't there for him, no comfort, no cover, no guidance.  But the Assange persons who were his colleagues took him under wing. So, now, instead of being "deep throat" hidden in an undisclosed location in the USA he's in the sheltering arms of the anarchists.

[Predator Don]

The regime needs fear, it feeds off it. Obama could not conjure up a better example of fear than a guy who did not feel secure enough to turn himself over to his own country. Can anyone imagine Snowdens thoughts that he felt the need to go to CHINA? RUSSIA?  Obama is getting the desired result. He could care less who knows what "secrets".

Democrats have been giving China our secrets for over a decade. Bill Clinton. We are using the latest unconstitutional devises to spy on Americans, but we can't secure a border or stop a couple of terrorists from bombing a race. This is not by mistake. This is by design.

I simply do not trust my gov't to do the right thing. Apparently, neither did Snowden. I'd love to think he could do something different than going to the Chinese or Russians, maybe there was another choice, so to do what he did, I can't imagine the pressure this guy felt.

[charlesoakwood]

Did they really want to arrest him?  It doesn't appear so. 
They didn't even have a proper warrant.

The Guardian - Hong Kong's justice minister has said the US government got the National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden's middle name wrong in documents it submitted seeking his arrest. ...

[Glock32]

Americans in particular often make the mistake of conflating country/nation with state. They are not one and the same. A nation can have many governments come and go. That is where I am at with ours. I want it to go. I do not consider it legitimate, and soon it will realize naked coercion is the only tool left to it -- which will in turn hasten its demise.

The current government of the USA is a far greater threat to the liberty and prosperity of the American people than either China or Russia are.

[charlesoakwood]

[Pandora]

Yes.  And anybody that doesn't know by now that this current regime considers US the ENEMY needs to pull his head out.

[Libertas]

Americans in particular often make the mistake of conflating country/nation with state. They are not one and the same. A nation can have many governments come and go. That is where I am at with ours. I want it to go. I do not consider it legitimate, and soon it will realize naked coercion is the only tool left to it -- which will in turn hasten its demise.

The current government of the USA is a far greater threat to the liberty and prosperity of the American people than either China or Russia are.

Yes.  We do not have to work that hard or look far off to find a real enemy to our liberty...the enemy is already here and doing battle against us!

 

[charlesoakwood]

Weasel House:
The Hill - U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice rejected suggestions that National Security Agency leaks by former contractor Edward Snowden had damaged U.S. foreign policy or weakened President Obama.

“I think that’s bunk,” said Rice...“I think the Snowden thing is obviously something that we will get through, as we've gotten through all the issues like this in the past,” she added.

And, Ms. Rice, what techniques did the administration employ to "get through...issues like this in the past"?

[benb61]

Weasel House:
The Hill - U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice rejected suggestions that National Security Agency leaks by former contractor Edward Snowden had damaged U.S. foreign policy or weakened President Obama.

“I think that’s bunk,” said Rice...“I think the Snowden thing is obviously something that we will get through, as we've gotten through all the issues like this in the past,” she added.

And, Ms. Rice, what techniques did the administration employ to "get through...issues like this in the past"?

Let's see, distraction, race baiting, and my favorite "not letting a crisis go to waste".

[warpmine]

Yes, Snowden could have easily gone through channels but obviously those channels were populated by crocs like Graham and Reid who don't give a rat's ass what the regime illegally does. Whistle blowers seem to either lose their jobs or get prosecuted so what's the difference? He may have thrown a code to which the regime would have somehow, had him disappear like Obama's records of history and his previous sexual relationships back at Trinity Church in Chicago.

If you had info about illegal govt activity, would you risk it here in the USSA or go abroad and chance it there?

One last statement of fact, we are suppose to be free citizens but as of the last century we seem to be that which we broke from, subjects of the Crown and in this case the Crown is the Federal Reserve bank that cares so much about us little people that it keeps interest rates artificially low so that we haven't any check on inflation forcing us all into the stock market to which most of us know is rigged like a magnet placed on the roulette table wheel.

Newsweek's newest cover should be "We are all enemies now"