Topic: putin and america's integrity

[whimsicalmamapig]

does anyone besides myself feel like Putin just did to us what Reagan did to Russians?  did Putin just hand mr. obama his family jewels on a plate?  And now the stumbling bunch of academics in the white house are trying to portray this as a pre-planned victory for their guy?

I have not seen such unmitigated gall coming from our government. I am so totally embarrassed

[IronDioPriest]

Ya know, I hadn't really looked at it that way, but you're right in certain regards. Reagan boxed the Soviet Union into a corner where it was obvious to the world that the balance of power was shifting. He gracefully and forcefully demonstrated American superiority (and by default, Soviet inferiority), thereby humiliating their leaders in the eyes of the whole world.

The world may not see Russia as superior because of this, but the world most definitely sees the US as humiliated; our power eroding. The balance of power is shifting, and Vlad was only too happy to demonstrate it.

Whether Obama and the Leftists were on board with that demonstration is something upon which I speculate.

[whimsicalmamapig]

If you understand obama's world tour after his election in 2008, you know that his view was that America acted too much like a "big bully" and that we needed to be more humble in the world and take less of a role in directing the actions of the world.  He reflected the views of his many leftist mentors that American needed to be brought down a peg or two, to step back.

because of this I feel that Obama's crowd would feel quite comfortable with this diminution of America's standing in the world and whether they would have actively worked for it or tacitly enabled it is meaningless.

Anyone with a bare grasp of history knows that when a power vacuum is created, other powers rush in to fill the void.  I am not sure just what power structure these progressives see as being a better one that the US, but I am not willing to see if china or putin's Russia would work out so well.

but as long as obamaphone mama has her monthly check and the academic world can feel unsullied by the dirty work of defending freedom they will find a way of seeing obama's  actions as laudable and representative of his "glory"

I, personally, feel degraded and reflect on all the American's who have sacrificed so much for this dolt to give away in a weeks time

[IronDioPriest]

You fit right in here mama. I hope you see fit to stick around.

[Glock32]

This guy is a classless embarrassment all the way around. A product of other people's grooming from Day 1, because he satisfied certain superficial criteria. Have we ever had a president more disdainful of the office he holds, or the country that elected him?

The list of embarrassments is too long, but some greatest hits:


"The Cambridge police acted stupidly"
"Fifty-seven states"
"Marine Corpse / corpseman"
"Whose ass to kick"
Giving the Queen of England an iPod preloaded with his speeches as a gift
"Speak Austrian"
Genuflecting to foreign leaders


The guy is just a ventriloquist's dummy, and it becomes very apparent what a fraud he is whenever he's allowed to drift outside a carefully orchestrated public persona.

[IronDioPriest]

This guy is a classless embarrassment all the way around. A product of other people's grooming from Day 1, because he satisfied certain superficial criteria. Have we ever had a president more disdainful of the office he holds, or the country that elected him?

The list of embarrassments is too long, but some greatest hits:


"The Cambridge police acted stupidly"
"Fifty-seven states"
"Marine Corpse / corpseman"
"Whose ass to kick"
Giving the Queen of England an iPod preloaded with his speeches as a gift
"Speak Austrian"
Genuflecting to foreign leaders


The guy is just a ventriloquist's dummy, and it becomes very apparent what a fraud he is whenever he's allowed to drift outside a carefully orchestrated public persona.

Problem is, he doesn't think he's a ventriloquist's dummy, and he doesn't occupy a ventriloquist's dummy's office. I don't care if it turns out he's got Down's Syndrome - he needs to be taken seriously as a heart attack.

[LadyVirginia]

A product of other people's grooming from Day 1, because he satisfied certain superficial criteria.

he believes his own hype

and that makes him dangerous

[whimsicalmamapig]

I can remember when Obama was first introduced by Hillary way back when he was just elected as a state senator from Illinois. the line given was that the democrat party had great plans for him and I remember thinking what a strange name he had, but taking good note that "the party" had long term plans for him.

While many on the right remember democrats in the manner of LBJ, Kennedy, Humphrey, Truman, etc. there is a totally different and more outlying brand of democrat, more comfortable with the writings of Marx than Jackson or Schlesinger. These area individuals who want not to just share in the abundance of this nation but to fundamentally recreate this nation in the image of leftist European ideology foregoing much of what our founding fathers saw a fundamental to free nation in exchange for the comfortable safety of statism. they do not want a nation of free men, they want a nation of well-conditioned worker-drones.

[LadyVirginia]

These area individuals who want not to just share in the abundance of this nation but to fundamentally recreate this nation in the image of leftist European ideology foregoing much of what our founding fathers saw a fundamental to free nation in exchange for the comfortable safety of statism. they do not want a nation of free men, they want a nation of well-conditioned worker-drones.

These are the progressives who've been around since the late 1800's.  They started with compulsory education to create workers.

[ToddF]

There is a never ending debate in which I can't take a definitive side on.

Is Obama really this much of a complete, stuttering clusterfail?

Is Obama really doing this on purpose, to degrade America?  He isn't really this stupid, and is just taking one for the team in the short term, to implement his long term goal of a smaller America?

[whimsicalmamapig]

If he is a true believer then I can see him taking one for the long goal.  Look at early Christians and present day muslems, they were both groups fueled by faith in an ideology that they were willing to suffer and die for.  I can see many generations of progressives working towards a long-term goal of commandeering this nation and its bounty for their communist statism that they so fervently believe in. Obama may not even be their end-game, he may just the latest step in dis-assembling the representative government that we have and replacing it with an overwhelmingly powerful and almost indestructible  bureaucracy

[IronDioPriest]

There is a never ending debate in which I can't take a definitive side on.

Is Obama really this much of a complete, stuttering clusterfail?

Is Obama really doing this on purpose, to degrade America?  He isn't really this stupid, and is just taking one for the team in the short term, to implement his long term goal of a smaller America?

I lean towards door number 2, for the simple fact that the results of his presidency comport with his ideology - beyond what I think even he could have dreamed. Whether he is backing into it through blunder or bringing it about by devious machinations, his vision of a diminished United States receiving its comeuppance is coming to fruition. That alone suggests purpose.

[whimsicalmamapig]

we tend to talk of Obama as if he is all alone in his presidency.  He was selected to be promoted to this position way back when he was just a new state senator.  this "fundamental change" that he speaks of is a desire in the hearts and minds of many secular progressive relativists who are now in positions in our schools, our governments at all levels, and our health-care workers. I don't even think that most of these people understand their complicity in this movement in as much as they have been selectively educated and are just acting in a way that they have been told is for the "betterment" of mankind. You all know the do-gooders who shame you for eating chicken but won't pick up arms against the like of Asaad as that is and act of violence.

[Predator Don]

If you understand obama's world tour after his election in 2008, you know that his view was that America acted too much like a "big bully" and that we needed to be more humble in the world and take less of a role in directing the actions of the world.  He reflected the views of his many leftist mentors that American needed to be brought down a peg or two, to step back.

because of this I feel that Obama's crowd would feel quite comfortable with this diminution of America's standing in the world and whether they would have actively worked for it or tacitly enabled it is meaningless.

Anyone with a bare grasp of history knows that when a power vacuum is created, other powers rush in to fill the void.  I am not sure just what power structure these progressives see as being a better one that the US, but I am not willing to see if china or putin's Russia would work out so well.

but as long as obamaphone mama has her monthly check and the academic world can feel unsullied by the dirty work of defending freedom they will find a way of seeing obama's  actions as laudable and representative of his "glory"

I, personally, feel degraded and reflect on all the American's who have sacrificed so much for this dolt to give away in a weeks time

Amen.......every military person I know feel betrayed.

[Libertas]

I made the comment elsewhere...the Russian and American roles are reversed...they have the statesman, we have the crazy bastard...hopefully Putin doesn't overplay his had, but so far so good.

Where the comparison starts to fade though is the next rung down...Kerry is a stunning fustercluck, his little brain let his mouth open and out came the usual drivel...and Vlad seized upon it and now Stymie is stuck with it as policy...Gromyko was never that incompetent!  Of course the Soviets shot people that screwed up...we are stuck with the horse-faced gigolo.

[whimsicalmamapig]

can anyone get their head around what just happened to American prestige and world standing?  Have we just abdicated our role as superpower to become Putin's bi&%h.

[Pandora]

WE haven't.  Obongo and Congress have.

[Libertas]

WE haven't.  Obongo and Congress have.

Yeah, got that right!

And to that point...I think Vlad's smackdown of Obama is going to backfire.  I understand and can appreciate the desire and ability to spike the football in Obama's face...but Vlad has to be bright enough to know what a insecure, thin-skinned ego-maniacal jackass Obama is...I think this just made a conflict in Syria inevitable.  Obama and his handlers have just been bitch-slapped like no American leadership team has ever been slapped in our entire history.  The Obama Regime is going to find a way out of the Kerry Blunder Policy that Russia & Syria exploited...they will not settle for anything less than regime change in Syria...and now with Vlad overplaying his hand (I warned that putz about that!) the weak sisters leaning against Syrian intervention in Congress will be flipped by their Neo-Con bretheren and they will side with Obama when push comes to shove.  Putin cannot be this ignorant, therefore the only logical conclusion I can make is he is goading Obama into acting, he wants a conflict...I think he thinks that once things start happening that Obama will be the first to back down...but again he is making a huge gamble that Obama will back down...he may be correct, but he also could be helping to kick off a wider and nastier confrontation that engulfs the whole region.  This has grown from a mere pipleline and port issue...I think Vlad sees an opportunity to evict the US from the entire region and an opportunity to influence the entire Middle East for the next several generations.  Vlad is going back to his old Soviet totalitarian dreams...and the worst part is, he may succeed.  Doesn't bode well for Israel, nope, not one bit.  IMO they have to forget about everybody else and spank Iran now, they cannot wait any longer...waiting means certain death, they have to act now.  I think the Middle East is toast, I think between Vlad's dreams of conquest and humiliating the West, Iran's desire to slaughter their way into bringing their 12th Imam forward and Israel's only hope is to attack Iran...it was bound to blow up sometime...what the hell, might as well be now.

ETA -

1)  IowaHawk - “Putin now just basically doing donuts in Obama’s front yard”

http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=202991Yup.

2)  PeacePrize response - "He’s (Putin) fully invested in Syria’s CW disarmament and that’s potentially better than a military strike – which would deter and degrade but wouldn’t get rid of all the chemical weapons. He now owns this. He has fully asserted ownership of it and he needs to deliver.”

http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/11/white-house-responds-to-putins-nyt-op-ed/

Translation - I will wiggle out of this stupid gaff of Jean F'n Kerry by making you produce Syrian chemical weapons...failure to do so means the bombing starts.

What Vlad will hear - Give me some chemical weapons to show this stupid idiot, take them from our own stores if you have to!

Ball is back in PeacePrize's court...

Another ETA - Remember what I said about Pubbies lining up on Obama's side because of Putin spiking the football?  Yeah, well, it's started...

http://thehill.com/video/in-the-news/321859-criticism-of-putins-op-ed-builds-among-lawmakers

[Pandora]

An excerpt from the NYT letter:

It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.

Well, now I know why Rush was going on about the meaning of American Exceptionalism ... because fewer and fewer understand exactly what it means.

[Pandora]

... For the first time in human history, a government and country was founded on the belief that leaders serve the population. This country was the first in history, the EXCEPTION -- e-x-c-e-p-t, except. The exception to the rule is what American exceptionalism is.

It is because of this liberty and freedom that our country exists, because the founders recognized it comes from God.

... The US is the first time in the history of the world where a government was organized with a Constitution laying out the rules, that the individual was supreme and dominant, and that is what led to the US becoming the greatest country ever because it unleashed people to be the best they could be. Nothing like it had ever happened. That's American exceptionalism. Putin doesn't know what it is, Obama doesn't know what it is, and it just got trashed in the New York Times. It's just unacceptable."

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/da...

Via Gateway Pundit