Topic: is the americanmiddle class the equal of the roman slaves and military?

[whimsicalmamapig]

I was watching a tv documentary on the fall of rome and a section was on the major municipal constructions of Trajan and the baths of Caracalla.
both of these projects were funded by the loot captured by the legions and constructed by slave labor.

both of these construction projects were to create an environment to keep the masses appeased (much like the earlier coliseum) and placidly happy with the huge roman bureaucracy.

The source of funding that our current government uses to placate it's "entitlement masses" is the taxes on the middle class, ergo, we are the equivalent of roman slaves and legions.

If you study history you realize things never change, just the characters playing the parts.  it was the vast, unmanageable size of the roman empire, its unsustainable economic model plus the out-of-touch ruling class that allowed the vigorous and culturally more vital goths  to overwhelm the tired and decadent empire.  perhaps we can achieve such a vigorous counter to the flaccid left.

[RickZ]

The Romans were the original 'bread and circuses' society in order to keep the masses placated, using literally the grain for bread and the Circus Maximus and the Flavian Amphitheater to keep the mob docile; Democraps use the free shyt of welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, etc., to do the same thing.  And like the Roman Empire fell from within, so too our Republic is falling from within.

[Weisshaupt]

The Romans were the original 'bread and circuses' society in order to keep the masses placated, using literally the grain for bread and the Circus Maximus and the Flavian Amphitheater to keep the mob docile; Democraps use the free shyt of welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, etc., to do the same thing.  And like the Roman Empire fell from within, so too our Republic is falling from within.

Bonus Question. At what point was Romes Fall irreversible do you think?

[RickZ]

Weisshaupt, good question.  I don't have a particular date in mind.  But I feel Rome began its long slide into irreversible oblivion when the patrician class no longer had their sons join the army to protect Rome.  Outsourcing the protection of the Empire's borders to the very barbarians they were trying to prevent from entering spelled certain doom.  As our SCOAMT repeatedly says, everyone needs to have skin in the game; Rome's patrician class eventually felt that was beneath them.  Quod Erat Demonstratum.

[LadyVirginia]

I remember as a kid my dad telling me that welfare was a means of placating the masses. He wasn't hopeful that it would ever be diminished or used as a step up for people. I didn't understand what he was trying to explain to at the time.

[whimsicalmamapig]

the point of no return was the Rubicon.

Once the senate realized that a single man with power could disregard their republican control of their country it was all over. The roman republic had survived as much prior to Julius but once the republic fell it was done for.

we are in the process of losing our republic and our Caesar is the leftist bureaucracy/educational system that funds the democratic (how ironic) party that moves constantly to create the overwhelming force that ignores the republic and its constitution.

[ChrstnHsbndFthr]

Weisshaupt, good question.  I don't have a particular date in mind.  But I feel Rome began its long slide into irreversible oblivion when the patrician class no longer had their sons join the army to protect Rome.  Outsourcing the protection of the Empire's borders to the very barbarians they were trying to prevent from entering spelled certain doom.  As our SCOAMT repeatedly says, everyone needs to have skin in the game; Rome's patrician class eventually felt that was beneath them.  Quod Erat Demonstratum.

What a powerful statement. I was interested in service for citizenship, but this does make me think.  I am split-minded on this issue.

[Glock32]

Perhaps it is inescapable that all civilizations become victims of their own success. Success leads to bountiful surpluses and luxuries, which in turn lead to indulgence and decadence, which leads to idleness, debauchery, navel-gazing. There's also the aspect of a citizenry that thinks itself too good to perform its own menial labor, and so it imports alien labor to do it either as slaves or near-slaves.

[RickZ]

What a powerful statement. I was interested in service for citizenship, but this does make me think.  I am split-minded on this issue.

The lessons from History are teachable moments that are no longer taught.  As mentioned elsewhere, just look at the problem with cults of personality in the past.  Schools used to teach cautionary tales about such things but now the schools foment such thinking and call it good because statism is good.  Too many think their ideas are new and groundbreaking without them ever understanding, or wanting to understand, what worked or failed from the past, and why.  Politicians willing to give up our border sovereignty to illegals for votes is so . . . so incredibly and transparently stupid.  But they think it'll work this time, even with all the historical lessons out there pointing to a failure of such a policy.  Insanity may be the 'doing the same thing over and over' concept, but with these people today it is willful and studious ignorance of the past which is so alarming.  When Civics goes out the public school window, is it any wonder we're taking that inexorable slide into oblivion ourselves?  You can't have a successful society without that society being aware of itself, its past, good and bad.  Now our kids are propagandized with only the bad, like 'the white man conquered a peaceful group of Indians to steal this country'.  Really?  Funny how no one asks the descendants of those Indians about that 'peaceful' crap.  The problem is very much like the recent brou-ha-ha over the Washington Redskins' name.  Liberal white guilt claims it is demeaning and insulting to the noble savage.  But no one asks the Indians about that.  Our Nation honors the warrior spirit of our former enemies in many ways today, one of the better known examples being the naming of military helicopters after Indian tribes.  From all I've read, Indians are quite pleased with that tribute to their 'warrior spirit' past, and you can be damned sure that if the situation was reversed, the Indians would NOT be celebrating our defeated 'warrior spirit'.  But I'm sure there will some liberal wienie someday protesting that 'insult' to the tribes' memory and our military helicopters will start having names like the Tofu instead of the Kiowa.  Societal failure is inevitable when the past is taught through the white guilt lens of historical revisionism.  How many blacks understand the complex nature of slavery in the States?  Or that slavery is as old as mankind, and continues to this day, most notably in the Africa of their heritage?  Or that the 3/5 rule for counting slaves for House representation purposes was not done to show how worthless black life was, but rather a way to eventually end slavery itself, gradually ending the power of the slaveholding states to make decisions on the national stage?  Now blacks spout the same liberal white guilt gibberish and pass that ignorance down to the younger generation.  Any wonder we have the Knockout Game running rampant within the black community without hardly a peep from either the black so-called leaders or guilt ridden white liberals?  Changing the past to suit the present is fraught with peril because then everything is a lie, and becomes ensconced in the minds of the citizenry by the repetition of teaching that lie.  Remember, Lincoln freed the slaves so he must have been a Democrat.  Because the Democrats are so caring about blacks, they pushed the Civil Rights Act only to be stymied again and again by the racist Republicans.  When one arrives at that point, one must ask, what does it matter anyway?  How does one defeat such entrenched and institutionalized ignorance?

Now we're constantly hearing from the proggies how OwebamaCare is the law of the land and defunding it is just plain ol' mean.  But how many are then questioned about slavery being the law of the land once, too?  And look how many lives it took to end 'the peculiar institution'.  Do they want a repeat of that part of History as well?  Sure seems like it to me, but then I understand History and that is why the Government must crush me and my viewpoints.  And what better way to do that than to change the past so that a whole generation of school kids grow up incredibly ignorant of our own factual History, thinking I'm the bullshyt artist?

[warpmine]

The Romans were the original 'bread and circuses' society in order to keep the masses placated, using literally the grain for bread and the Circus Maximus and the Flavian Amphitheater to keep the mob docile; Democraps use the free shyt of welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, etc., to do the same thing.  And like the Roman Empire fell from within, so too our Republic is falling from within.

Bonus Question. At what point was Romes Fall irreversible do you think?

Probably two centuries before the rise of Caesar. It was durig that time when the political corruption took hold and never let go. It was inevitable as the population became accustomed to it.

[Pandora]

The problem is very much like the recent brou-ha-ha over the Washington Redskins' name.  Liberal white guilt claims it is demeaning and insulting to the noble savage.  But no one asks the Indians about that.

Actually, they have been asked, and answered.  But, because the answer is not one that backs up the claims of offense touted by the Ruling Class of the United States of the Offended, it's discarded as 'these people are too dumb to know what's good for them', and because it's vital to the narrative that the historical truth remain distorted, if not buried.  And this is accomplished by insistent  repetition of the word of the go-to tokens, who can be counted on to fall in line as "victim".

As you also touched on with Blacks, who are "represented" by the Sharpton/Jacksons, it's the same with homosexuals and all the other victim classes.  Virtuous Whites decide the narrative, it's boosted by self-appointed group spokesmen, broadcast by the presstitutes and voila! more proof nothing has changed in The Racist States of America.  Any dissenters are abused, smeared and thus marginalized.

Bringing us to "When one arrives at that point, one must ask, what does it matter anyway?", which is where we are now, ironically, and thank you Hillary Clinton.

As for the service/citizenship question, if I remember my Heinlein correctly, service qualified one to vote; one was a citizen regardless.

[Libertas]

The Rubicon is the official break point but Glock & Warp are closer to the nature of the original question...once Rome began to let greed and corruption seep into their society (remember, they were a virtuous and family-oriented people once, pagan of course, but virtuous) the seeds of their own destruction were planted...and all the declining morals, lavish lifestyles, outsourcing of labor, flux of new immigrants from newly conquered lands...eventually coelesced enough to make the placating of the ruling class and the mob more difficult to finance without new sources of plunder and the rise of dictators bought some time but only postponed the inevitable and added to the moral decay from within, and once so thoroughly overextended geographically and financially and no longer strong enough to keep the barbarian hordes at bay they were ripe to be looted and slaughtered.

They call the post-Roman period the "dark ages"...once the full effect of the post-American period is experienced they'll have to come up with new definitions...

[Weisshaupt]

They call the post-Roman period the "dark ages"...once the full effect of the post-American period is experienced they'll have to come up with new definitions...

The REALLY Dark Ages?

[ToddF]

(much like the earlier coliseum)

Certainly no comparisons to a modern era of bigger and bigger McMansion Stadiums, financed by sales taxes.

[Libertas]

They call the post-Roman period the "dark ages"...once the full effect of the post-American period is experienced they'll have to come up with new definitions...

The REALLY Dark Ages?

Enjoy the show!

[warpmine]

The dark skin ages! This should allow people to relate to the usurper POTUS in relation to the chaos.