Author Topic: Just commodities  (Read 136850 times)

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Offline Septugenarian

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #700 on: April 20, 2020, 09:19:30 PM »
The National Strategic Reserve is being refilled at low cost to we taxpayers.  Small victory, bad for the producers and the folks that work in the industry.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #701 on: April 21, 2020, 08:49:44 AM »
The real question here is if this will allow the rest of the world to escape the petro-dollar trap.. dumping their dollar reserves while Washington is panic buying  and buying oil to sit on for a while..

There will be a lot of economic destruction..but I expect "something is better than nothing" reasoning to prevail. Your business missed the rent for 3 months, but you can start paying again in the 4th? You don't evict tenants for not paying rent because they were forbidden to produce by forces outside their control -- especially when they can then start being good paying tenants again  when they are free to go to work.  People will have less money this year, and less will get spent..but day to day we simply get back to business

There is a lot of chatter about how "behavior will change" and people won't go out as much or -- whateves... if the last decade has taught me anything - people are really stupid. They will go back to "normal" as soon as they are able... Some - a small number - may learn a lesson form this and change their behavior - and they may decide to prep or save when they would have spent money  in other ways before.. but the effect will be small.  I expect businesses that were successful before  SARS2 will be successful after.  Oil demand will return and investments will go back into the stock market..

If we are lucky - the regulations Trump suspended will stay suspended - but I wouldn't count on it. If we are lucky this prompts some changes in supply chain where we don't rely on places like China for meds and other manufacturing.
 But we have a brand new money supply bomb on our hands.. if that money stays sequestered making balance sheets look good, then we probably keep going on for a while more.. however if the world finally drops the dollar - for oil pricing , or anything else, we can expect Japanese Style malaise as our climbing debt can only be printed and bought by our homegrown  crony capitalist/central bankers...  though I suspect we will stay in bed and in lock step with the EU doing dollar swaps. 

I expect we will see another round of "hey this package contains even less than before" and price hikes, and a general lowering in the American standard of living.. which of course the Democrats will seize upon to sell their new deal ( same as the old deal)  to to urban city morons. If they win the election -  we get tyrannical BS that leads to assassinations, and civil war.  If Trump wins -  we get the same, just from Antifa instead of police..
 
Of course, I would love to see Trump call forth the militia - but calling forth only registered Republicans... use the Militia act to buy everyone member of the militia a new fully automatic military rifle. ..and then claim the Left was correct about the 2nd amendment all along - and that people not in the militia have no right to a firearm-- and then just go into the cities and take over. Won't have to fire a shot, I suspect the announcement itself would make the heads of most leftists explode.  And if not, why not?  After all, I hear Trump is a tyrant so he should start acting like one..  and people who refuse to respect the rights of others, can't really expect the people they wrong to continue to honor their rights... Ok leftists, you win. Its your rules.  No more negotiated contract between us. Might Makes Right.

I don't think we are full teotwawki yet, but seeing it in the cards being dealt out, so get ready to see it played at some point soon.  As things return to "normal" its time to get restocked and lay in any final things you think you might need as the world burns (Toilet Paper is probably not one of them... boy the sheeple were sure funny.. )




Online Pandora

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #702 on: April 21, 2020, 03:29:49 PM »
As we're slowly using up some of our stock, some will need replacing.  I thank God we are as well positioned as we are, in terms of supplies.

There is still little to no toilet paper in the stores.  SO, WHERE THE HELL IS IT?!
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Offline John Florida

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #703 on: April 21, 2020, 05:47:02 PM »
The National Strategic Reserve is being refilled at low cost to we taxpayers.  Small victory, bad for the producers and the folks that work in the industry.
   

  Right now oils is cheap but its in the short term . Fill the reserves to capacity costs less and it opens up storage for the producers which they are desperate for. You can bet on oil going up in the next 30/60 days as the countries open up again and the fight between the Saudis and Russia ends and ends with a much weaker Russia.
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Offline John Florida

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #704 on: April 21, 2020, 05:56:22 PM »
  If I had to bet toilet paper orders have been cut because the stores don't want to order the stuff with all the ridiculous hoarding going on.   We don't have a food shortage even with supply chain being closed like meat packers and so on.  The problem now is that producers have to destroy crops animals because they have nowhere to go with the products because a large part of the market is closed IE restaurants.


  China according to RFDTV has a pork shortage and has had to dip into their pork reserves production is down due to (get this) African swine flue killing the pigs. Prices have more than doubled.  Too bad so sad.
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Online patentlymn

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #705 on: April 22, 2020, 05:55:07 PM »


There was a post over at Vox Day about some US maker of masks as best I recall. With the shortage he can ramp up and make more. The hospitals normally buy from China. After the shortage the hospitals will go back to China. He will lay off the extra employees hired which means he pays more in unemployment payroll rates. He is not about to invest in more equipment when orders will go back to China in a few months.

NN Taleb said that the economy is hyper optimized but very fragile. Meat cutting used to be very distributed, even done in grocery stores by butchers. Then it was cheaper to have the butchering done in meat packing plants.  Then the meat packing plants got bigger and bigger and companies got bigger. Now shutting down a single meat packing plant can have major consequences.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online Pandora

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #706 on: April 22, 2020, 09:19:24 PM »


There was a post over at Vox Day about some US maker of masks as best I recall. With the shortage he can ramp up and make more. The hospitals normally buy from China. After the shortage the hospitals will go back to China. He will lay off the extra employees hired which means he pays more in unemployment payroll rates. He is not about to invest in more equipment when orders will go back to China in a few months.

NN Taleb said that the economy is hyper optimized but very fragile. Meat cutting used to be very distributed, even done in grocery stores by butchers. Then it was cheaper to have the butchering done in meat packing plants.  Then the meat packing plants got bigger and bigger and companies got bigger. Now shutting down a single meat packing plant can have major consequences.

Got links?
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #707 on: April 23, 2020, 03:09:26 PM »
The real thing that is about to happen is a meat shortage - because the processing plants are shut down they are starting to kill chickens, hogs, cows because farmers can't get them processed and can't afford to keep feeding them.. they are dumping raw milk, and a lot of other produced can't be packaged properly because it was meant for the large restaurant market.  And of course there are huge regulatory issues with self-slaughter/direct form farm products  for sale.. Its not inspected!

The result is that what meat makes it to market is going to be super expensive  and its not going to recover quickly - dead animals are dead -- so make sure you find out if anyone is doing a large slaughter near you and buy those animals direct - YOU can slaughter them for your own use - the farmer can't legally sell you the animal after its dead. Get those freezers stocked, and continue to raise and feed animals if you have a place to do so.. Rabbits, Chickens, goats.... 

Online ToddF

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #708 on: April 23, 2020, 06:11:55 PM »
I've seen other people say that there's some extra capacity to absorb some of these shutdowns.  The price increases I've seen so far are more driven by supply chain disruptions between restaurants and retail grocery stores.  Like cheap roasts going up in price and steaks coming down.  Eggs.  That sort of thing.

We'll see.

Online patentlymn

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #709 on: April 23, 2020, 06:12:28 PM »


There was a post over at Vox Day about some US maker of masks as best I recall. With the shortage he can ramp up and make more. The hospitals normally buy from China. After the shortage the hospitals will go back to China. He will lay off the extra employees hired which means he pays more in unemployment payroll rates. He is not about to invest in more equipment when orders will go back to China in a few months.

NN Taleb said that the economy is hyper optimized but very fragile. Meat cutting used to be very distributed, even done in grocery stores by butchers. Then it was cheaper to have the butchering done in meat packing plants.  Then the meat packing plants got bigger and bigger and companies got bigger. Now shutting down a single meat packing plant can have major consequences.

Got links?

Found it. The last link is best. The original source.
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2020/04/make-them-do-it.html
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=239019
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/watchdog/2020/04/03/if-you-imagine-that-a-local-business-making-surgical-face-masks-is-working-247-guess-again
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Online patentlymn

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #710 on: April 23, 2020, 07:15:42 PM »
The real thing that is about to happen is a meat shortage - because the processing plants are shut down they are starting to kill chickens, hogs, cows because farmers can't get them processed and can't afford to keep feeding them.. they are dumping raw milk, and a lot of other produced can't be packaged properly because it was meant for the large restaurant market.  And of course there are huge regulatory issues with self-slaughter/direct form farm products  for sale.. Its not inspected!

The result is that what meat makes it to market is going to be super expensive  and its not going to recover quickly - dead animals are dead -- so make sure you find out if anyone is doing a large slaughter near you and buy those animals direct - YOU can slaughter them for your own use - the farmer can't legally sell you the animal after its dead. Get those freezers stocked, and continue to raise and feed animals if you have a place to do so.. Rabbits, Chickens, goats....

Interesting post. I wish I were in a position to buy a steer. Long ago my parents had a meat locker at A&P or Piggly Wiggly. They would buy half a steer as I recall. So long ago.

Maybe the govt could do something useful and buy cheese to distribute.

Michael Hudson says that the govt screwed up big time by not using TARP to forgive homeowner mortgage debts.  Also by not requiring the financial institutions to file for bankruptcy. The TARP money went to the 1% and the consumer debt from 2008 is still mostly around.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #711 on: April 24, 2020, 10:02:29 AM »
The National Strategic Reserve is being refilled at low cost to we taxpayers.  Small victory, bad for the producers and the folks that work in the industry.
   

  Right now oils is cheap but its in the short term . Fill the reserves to capacity costs less and it opens up storage for the producers which they are desperate for. You can bet on oil going up in the next 30/60 days as the countries open up again and the fight between the Saudis and Russia ends and ends with a much weaker Russia.

Truckers probably loving the price drop too, nationally the gas price is around $1.79, diesel is $2.48 perAAA. 
https://gasprices.aaa.com/

WTI (West Tx Crude) futures keep floating above/below the $17/bbl mark...for the time being retail should stay low, once states start to re-open and businesses come back it will pick up, but not too quickly I suspect...and then it will level out some point lower than before all this started.

I bought meat when everybody else was running for TP...nothing to wipe if you don't eat.  Probably buy some more as I have some available freezer space.  The distribution chain in most all things is what is causing most "shortages" at retail.  For meat I am somewhat skeptical there should be as much disruption, in my mind it should affect mostly non-farm-producing areas, farm-producing areas should be able to provide meat to area retail.  And restaurants cannot account for the logjam, people eat...they either eat out or eat in...which indicates if people eating out a lot more than in...they are also probably eating more in quantity than is necessary for basic sustenance.  Restaurants miss fat bastards and drunks, film at 11.

We've pissed trillions into the murdered economy...and most of it will be monetized though there has been pick ups in Treasuries as people fled the Wall St casinos.  Short-term looks survivable.  But as Weisshaupt points out the long-term is still in (now more) jeopardy...given uncertain political, societal and economic turbulance.  What should happen is a doubling-down of the Trump America comes first plan, returing manufacuring of key medical and drug manufacturing here, we should be divesting from China...make it a moral crusade like the one the leftists ran against South Africa in support of black nationalist communists...become more sustainably independent as a nation.  That should be the goal.  First, we have a re-start to do, tyranny to roll back, and election coming up we cannot allow to be stolen.

That's a lot of if's...

I posted an Aesop article on the C-19 thread...it's a good primer for where we are going.

https://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,17562.msg184264/topicseen.html#msg184264
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 01:59:38 PM by Libertas »
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online Pandora

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #712 on: April 24, 2020, 11:51:21 AM »
Libertas, the tags in the previous post are messed up.

There will be food shortages, and that includes meat, because a lot of the processing plants (butcheries) are shut down (for cleaning and "sanitizing") as one or more of the workers has come down with Chicom19.  Milk is being dumped because the bottling plants are closed; eggs are being destroyed because there are carton shortages. 

The chicken plants around here are selling directly to the public (another two are doing out-of-truck sales this weekend); I don't know why the egg/milk/beef/pork producers can't do the same, but apparently there are prohibiting laws still in effect.

All of this may closing had been started to "flatten the curve", as in trying to keep us from becoming dead, but now has progressed to trying to keep us from becoming sick.  The first worked (I suppose) but the latter is a losing proposition unless we stay under house arrest forever, which accounts for the current blather about the 'second wave'.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #713 on: April 24, 2020, 02:02:44 PM »
I fixed it, don't know wtf happened, it was right, not sure why it did that, not like the open/close url command was wrong...?

Anyway...the smart thing to do would be to amend regs to allow residential deliveries...but that makes sense so it probably won't happen, certainly not everywhere...when authoritarian control is raging.   ::outrage::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #714 on: April 24, 2020, 03:54:57 PM »
My understanding is that the milk is being dumped for lack of a filter needed for pasteurization - eggs for lack of cartons , meat for closed packing plants and so forth..
It many places its illegal to sell raw milk, and you can't sell butchered meat without FDA inspection of your facility--and of course there are "Special " inspectors for  doing exotic animals-- like Yaks.

If there is a shortage and people have to choose between obeying the law and eating , these sales will still happen - but in the black market - with uncertain chains of custody  and refrigeration..Just saying, making that deal with a framer now may save you having to find the black market later..  he may even sell to you as a "friend"  cheaper  -- since the black market prices will likely be much higher.

THe supply chain can handle some slop - just like it does in 3rd world countries -- individuals aren't the only ones who use the black market - the more things fall apart, the less enforcement there is or can be, and corruption becomes the norm..  this means that the Governments will have a hard time getting people to obey ( ever again)  and "legit" is anything you don't get caught and punished for.  Its not the best way to run a society.. but  its what they do in the 3rd world and most everyone (with a job) eats, albeit it at a lower standard of living. The closer you get to being your own supply chain now the less this will affect you. (till they start trying to squeeze suppliers, like Rome did demanding Farmers farm their land for free... but then it might be time to squeeze some triggers.)
 
The Dems will do  everything they can to make this hard - they never want to let a crisis to go to waste, and Food Riots in the cities around election time is probably thier main plan for garnering votes.  I am hungry, stupid, lazy and broke and Democrats promise a hand out.. I will vote Democrat.. (note we are seeing the first wave ofpeople upset they aren't getting fired because unemployment will pay full wages plus a $500 a month bonus now... thanks Democrats!)

And then there is AOC and her assertion that working is something to be liberated from - not being free to go to work.

https://disrn.com/opinion/opinion-2-different-ways-of-being-an-american-2-different-ways-of-being-a-human-being

At least Marx wanted everyone to work ( at gun point) - AOC wants some people to not work on the back of peole who do.. or as I saw somewhere "Non-workers of the World Unite!"


Online Pandora

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #715 on: April 24, 2020, 06:30:40 PM »
Quote
My understanding is that the milk is being dumped for lack of a filter needed for pasteurization ...

Well WTF and other strong language!!  Nobody has the brains or is interested enough to come up with a reasonable facsimile thereof??  I don't fckin believe that for a minute; it's probably some damn law, laws or regulations sticking its big fat nose in the way.

I put out the word to a friend recently, who's raising beef, about him being our supply chain.  We'll see what happens. 

But I'll tell y'all what -- I'M PISSED.  COLD AS A WALK-IN FREEZER, HEART RATE STEADY AS EVER, PISSED.

There better be a widespread reckoning or there will be a local one, but THERE WILL BE ONE.

Quote
... As for what will become of the tyrants of the Empire State, the Tarheel State, and the Land of Fruits and Nuts, the future has yet to speak. (If it speaks to you, keep it to yourself. Please.) But Nicolae Ceausescu of Romania could educate them about the fate that awaits the tyrant who clings over-stubbornly to his “power,” once his subjects have decided that only the most definite and permanent of answers to overweening authority will serve their needs.

http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2020/04/by-permission-only.html

I picked a real shtty time to quit smoking.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #716 on: April 25, 2020, 06:20:00 AM »
https://www.businessinsider.com/milk-produce-beer-whats-being-dumped-coronavirus-pandemic-2020-4#pigs-5

https://www.farmanddairy.com/news/why-milk-is-being-dumped-right-now/607891.html

https://www.inquirer.com/economy/coronavirus-supply-chain-disruption-dairy-farmers-dump-milk-20200421.html

I can't seem to find the "filter" article.. but my understanding is that it is a FDA requirement to complete he pasteurization process - it may have just been the reason one packaging plant gave .. I don't recall.  But I don't think the specific reason matters. the supply chain is f'd  and you should expect it to get worse before it gets better.

If you put on your tinfoil  hat  this could also be seen as an attempt to wipe out small farmers so only big corporations are left.

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #717 on: April 25, 2020, 10:00:47 AM »
Greetings and salutations fellow inmates, prisoner number 24666 here. I hope y'all are putting a polish on your coping mechanisms and generally out-waiting the dhimmicrats desire to strangle the life outta us with this damned lockdown.

I've managed to keep an even keel for the most part but my outlook in general is taking a beating. My friend BPS (Black Pigeon Speaks) isn't doing my blood pressure any favors:

Trump: America's LAST Republican President
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3gYLOoqrTE





Offline John Florida

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #718 on: April 25, 2020, 04:38:06 PM »
   We had one party rule once and we all know how that ended up.   ::viking:: ::crusader:: ::machinegun::
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Just commodities
« Reply #719 on: April 27, 2020, 08:41:12 AM »
I'm in the mood for  ::rockets:: simply because  ::cussing:: commies are near me.

The Reckoning...it's gonna be a killer!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.