Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine

[patentlymn]

I wonder what will change now that Russia regards bombing Donetsk as bombing Russia? They have been very restrained so far and that pisses off Russians to no end. As Ritter and others note, the US would have taken out critical infrastructure on the first day but life is normal in Kiev.

The almost total news black out on some reporting from Ukraine has shocked me.
Some reporters have been criminally charged back in their home countries for sticking a mic in front of civilians and letting them talk. Ukr put several on a kill list. There has been some punishment for people observing the recent referendum.

Kiev has been shelling civilians in the east for 8 years. This used to be reported until the invasion then mostly silence.
The evidence for the purely civilian nature of the targets is
1. The location from any front.
2. The absence of any military or military targets in the videos. BUT occasionally some involved in clean up.
3. The testimony of the locals.

Her is some recent reporting from Eva Bartlett.
Note that you do not see scenes like this much in Kiev and many Russians are pissed about that.
https://youtu.be/0TiC0w8JLu4?t=126

Note this shelling below is reported in the west and Russians shelling those headed for Russian controlled areas.
https://youtu.be/AIS7FfokEk4?t=128
Refugee Convoy Shelled By Ukraine AGAIN. Euro PLUNGES. Putin Orders Mobilization Mistakes Corrected

https://youtu.be/OswXP7TjrBs?t=918
LIVE: Thursday September 29th 2022 - News From Saint Petersburg

More from Eva. Nothing special about these. Just happened when she was there.
https://youtu.be/CWqeFG7DhIs

https://youtu.be/zJpXcwMAVeI
Carnage: Ukraine's terrorism on Donetsk September 19 killed 16 civilians, 9 in one spot.

https://youtu.be/kzew0mXOo2Y
Ukrainian Terrorism of Central Donetsk September 17 Kills 4, Using Western Weapons

[Libertas]

And I get a little uneasy when the Godfather of Modern Machiavellian Foreign Policy starts sounding reasonable...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/kissinger-warns-washington-warmongers-not-wise-include-ukraine-nato

...but, doesn't matter even if he thinks something is unwise, the lunatics on all sides of this are committed to yield nothing...the crazies in Washington, Moscow & Brussels are not interested in de-scalation and detente was thrown into the sh*tter by The Kenyan and nobody wants to reach back in and touch that...

[Libertas]

Monkey goes into some more on NS hit...starts getting into it around 5:30 mark...(HAAWCs)...

https://youtu.be/XPUwgaAScp8

In other related news...that proves scratching a leftists reveals a fascist...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/blue-checks-diplomats-bots-go-ballistic-over-elon-musks-proposed-russia-ukraine-peace

...yes, going apesh!t over seeking a peaceful resolution...yeah...hilarious, eh?

[Libertas]

Everything continues to trend badly...

Targeting control?  Yeah, well...not much of a stretch there from where we are already at...

But...

Harry Kazianis wrote in Responsible Statecraft that in multiple war game simulations, Washington sending advanced weapons led to nuclear war.

I have fought more than thirty combat simulations in wargames under my own direction for a private defense contract…In every scenario I tested, the Biden Administration slowly gives Ukraine ever more advanced weapons like ATACMS, F-16s, and other platforms that Russia has consistently warned pose a direct military threat…In fact, in 28 of the thirty scenarios I have run since the war began, some sort of nuclear exchange occurs.

Kazianis does report that in some of the war games, diplomacy, rather than escalation prevailed, and nuclear conflict was averted:

The good news is there is a way out of this crisis — however imperfect it may be. In the two scenarios where nuclear war was averted, direct negotiations led to a ceasefire. The Biden Administration and its NATO allies should be testing Putin’s recent comments about a ceasefire to test his seriousness.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken, America’s top diplomat, has declared Washington’s goal is to see Russia suffer a “strategic defeat” in Ukraine. During the war, he spoke to Lavrov once and for only 25 minutes, they merely discussed a potential bilateral prisoner exchange. Likewise, UK Prime Minister Liz Truss has ruled out diplomacy until Moscow is “defeated.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/kiev-offers-white-house-targeting-control-longer-range-weapons

Diplomacy...among these clowns...all of whom want to risk everything...for Ukraine...?

 

The pinnacle of dark humor that is!

This ends badly...period.

[patentlymn]

There was a lot of NATO military activity near the sites of the pipeline explosions. This does not prove NATO/US did it. It does mean it would hard for someone else to sneak in and do it. I understand that the NATO/US helicopters and maybe the Poseidon have magnetic detection equipment which can detect submarines and pipelines in water that shallow. Also, Denmark has lots of sensors on the seabed to detect Russian subs.

Sen. Black, retired US Col. opines that the US deep state did it and that the Davos crowd benefits by buying up Ukr state assets at fire sale prices.
The CIA/Davos mentioned at 8 min 30 seconds. US mentioned maybe at 6 min.
https://youtu.be/ALb2FPXFro4?t=512

[Libertas]

That was the BALTOPS exercises before this line exploded...

HAAWCs seems the likely culprit as only that P8 was around at the very time.

[Libertas]

https://summit.news/2022/10/06/us-intel-concludes-ukraine-was-responsible-for-car-bombing-that-killed-darya-dugina/

Looks like they worked outside of US control...this idiotic suicidal American regime of Joe Fraud gets little respect from anybody...

Well, anyway...expect there will be more assassinations on all sides...

And while I have disagreements with some of this...

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2022/10/05/we-survived-the-last-nuclear-standoff-through-compromise-and-de-escalation/

...the inescapable conclusion that should be obvious to all is Vlad will hang onto his little bears no matter what and the West led by a psychotic JoeFraud government (and against the majority wishes of its people) is Hell-bent on crushing Russia no matter what...

...there is no JFK-Kruschev type secret de-escalation protocol...there is no Turkey/Cuba de-nuclearization deal...there are NO deals...

...if people are too stupid to understand the catastrophic collision building then shame on them...

Want more evidence?

Your DemoCommie government has the HHS loading up on acute radiation sickness drug Nplate, and only a fool thinks they are saving this up for you...no, the elite are saving it for themselves...most if not all of the 99% will be left to die if they survive any attacks.

At 17:15 Monkey goes into the deployment of the Russian "Doomsday" submarine Belgorod...

https://youtu.be/gjRVX5nK6fk

Swell, sneaky bastard with 6 big nuke torpedoes that are nuclear-powered with a range of 10,000k can sneak attack any coastal area...destroy undersea targets with detachable mini-subs or deploy Spetznaz operations, etc...

It completed sea trials last year, entered service just this past August...and now on its maiden deployment...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11274113/Putin-deploys-Belgorod-nuclear-submarine-amid-sabre-rattling-Ukraine.html

http://www.hisutton.com/Belgorod-Class-Submarine.html

Oh yeah...a negotiated peaceful resolution to this is right around the corner...

/

[patentlymn]

I hard Poland wants nukes on their soil.
Nothing to worry about ......

[benb61]

I hard Poland wants nukes on their soil.
Nothing to worry about ......

Yep, s#!t keeps moving the way it is, Russia will deliver at mach 5.

[Libertas]

Nukes for everybody!

Umm, where's mine?   

I am an oppressed people...subjugated to totalitarian hatred in official ruling junta edicts...

[Libertas]

It's so nice that free speech and normal and sane beliefs and Christian morals can be trashed and criminalized with deviants, criminals and wramongers can freely spew their demonic filth unmolested...

Umm, I mean it's not nice but twisted and evil...

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/biden-warns-nuclear-armageddon-threat-back-first-time-cuban-missile-crisis

So, it appears Sullivan is saying Putin is bluffing and JoeFraud is spewing nuclear word-salad to impress Russia with how totally in-charge the American DemoScat government is on this...

Yup, the world is porked.

[Libertas]

What a psychotic dickhead...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/watch-john-bolton-calls-putin-assassination-regime-change

...once that bottle is opened...there is no closing it again, ever!  What an insane jackass!

Only way to de-escalate this is to arrest the clown and put him on ice...but this despotic regime will not do that...they think the same effed up way this asshole does...

And in the latest efforts to expand the war...the Kerch bridge to Crimea...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1578632233145237504

https://twitter.com/i/status/1578599814744264704

https://twitter.com/i/status/1578604944415809536

https://twitter.com/i/status/1578641715812270081

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/large-explosion-destroys-part-key-bridge-linking-russia-crimea-zelensky-aide-says

The positive I see in the push to get nukes flying everywhere...Euros/NATO likely to get hit next after Ukraine is radiated...

Some for-certain targets -



https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/heres-where-us-nuclear-bombs-are-stored-europe


H/T-WRSA@GAB

[Libertas]

Business Insider has a new article out titled “The sabotage of gas pipelines were a ‘warning shot’ from Putin to the West, and should brace for more subterfuge, Russia experts warn.” The “experts” in question are as follows:

Former CIA director John Brennan, who was caught spying on US lawmakers and lying about it during the Senate’s investigation into CIA torture practices.

US intelligence veteran Andrea Kendall-Taylor, now a Senior Fellow at the warmongering think tank Center for a New American Security, whose top donors are the Pentagon and the arms manufacturer Northrop Grumman.

Cynthia Hooper, a history professor at the College of the Holy Cross.

That’s it; that’s all the experts. Two lying warmongers and a history professor.

Nowhere in the Business Insider article do the words “conspiracy” or “theory” appear. Contrast this with the recent Associated Press article titled “Russians push baseless theory blaming US for burst pipeline,” which was so frantic to spin accusations of US Nord Stream sabotage as a crazy conspiracy theory that it framed it as something only QAnon cultists believe.

“The suggestion that the U.S. caused the damage was circulating on online forums popular with American conservatives and followers of QAnon, a conspiracy theory movement which asserts that Trump is fighting a battle against a Satanic child-trafficking sect that controls world events,” AP wrote.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/johnstone-its-only-conspiracy-theory-when-it-accuses-us-government

 

Heck, The Old Gray Hag got egg on her face just last week proving a conspiracy theory was a conspiracy fact...only a complete imbecile thinks Russia destroying its own pipeline to Europe and the revenue it generates makes any sense at all...and remember, this opinion is coming from a non-admirer of Putin...

But there are enough idiots to buy a liar's lie...

In other news...

Germany about out of bullets...

https://www.rt.com/news/564341-germany-ammo-shortage-stocks/

...whatever, first the idiots followed a psychopath into ruin, sucked off the American teat for decades, hitched themselves to the cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys and now are helping to spur Europe into a new dark age...

Meh

The GUAM bloc may have a say in regional future...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraine-war-reinvigorates-eurasian-power-bloc

...if peace wins...but if hands-off-Putin's-new-terroritories-or-else and America's corrupt illegitimate 4th-kind-led government's never-recognize-Russia's-aggression continues as-is...all bloc's are moot...

And, to emphasize the point...the word "terrorist" has been deployed, certainly not in a de-escalatory manner...by both sides...and both have/are killing civilians...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1579360656595496960

https://twitter.com/i/status/1579405592481103874



https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/large-scale-strikes-many-cities-across-ukraine-response-terrorist-crimea-bridge-blast

...all signs point to the war escalating and expanding...the annexations pretty much locked both sides positions...easy to tell since nothing changed...just more waring...

...the complete lack of concern in the lemmings is also a ripe sign...

https://youtu.be/tMJVSvVTXdU

[patentlymn]

If I were in charge I would not attack the Crimea bridge because of what would happen next.
Not sure what would happen but it would not be good.
I would guess infrastructure hits. The US would have taken out electric and water the first thing.
It appears that was done this AM. Infrastructure hits with civilians as collateral damage.
In the Donbass the targets are civilian residential areas including schools for 8 years and the MSM does not cover it. Now the MSM is covering such hits on Kiev big time.

I see there is some bill in the US labeling Russian actions as "genocide." Just great. Make that word meaningless like racist.

[Libertas]

Clownworld

War, sh*t happens...usually not nice sh*t.

And this one is just starting...

And speaking of sh*t...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/10/dreaming-moment-dirty-anti-trump-liar-alex-vindman-cheers-war-escalation-ukraine/

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/10/wth-teachers-union-boss-randi-weingarten-enters-ukraine-assess-situation/

...I Hope some sh*t happens to that sh*t...

In the meantime watch the war mongers in DemoCommie ranks and Cuck ranks lambast this hardly conservative former JCS Chairman urging de-escalation of rhetoric and kinetic insanity...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1579275012061949952

This is why it's surprising that someone of the stature of the former chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff has come forward to urge that all sides must get serious about pursuing negotiations. Admiral Mike Mullen served as America's highest military commander spanning the Bush and Obama administrations.

In a weekend interview on ABC's "This Week", he addressed President Joe Biden's recent nuclear "Armageddon" remarks wherein the US president asserted that Vladimir Putin is "not joking" about possibly using nuclear weapons in Ukraine. Mullen said he thinks Washington needs to quickly "back off" such maximalist language, particularly when nuclear war is being talked about:

"President Biden's language -- we're about at the top of the language scale, if you will. And I think we need to back off that a little bit and do everything we possibly can to try to get to the table to resolve this thing," Mullen told "This Week" co-anchor Martha Raddatz.

Mullen continued while being asked about Biden's assertion that "We have not faced the prospect of Armageddon since Kennedy and the Cuban Missile Crisis" by explaining that reaching a point where negotiations can be achieved should remain a central driving policy objective.

Show host Raddatz asked Adm. Mullen: "How do you see him [Putin] saving face if he doesn't come to the table? If Ukraine can't figure anything out?" And the former top commander responded as follows:

Diplomacy and international pressure on both Ukraine and Russia would ultimately be key, Mullen argued. "It's got to end and usually there are negotiations associated with that," he said. "The sooner the better, as far as I'm concerned."

Putin is "pretty well cornered and boxed in," Mullen said. And potential use of tactical nuclear weapons could cause problems for Russia's president at home: "The winds all blow back onto Russia, so he would have to, in a way, contaminate his own country."

Forecasting a possible strike, Mullen said Putin "could pick a symbolic target. He could pick [Ukraine President Volodymyr] Zelenskyy’s hometown, for instance."

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/biden-should-back-armageddon-language-quickly-get-russians-negotiating-table-adm

Neither side seems interested in negotiation because neither side is interested in yielding squat...

So, Clownworld will continue on its trajectory...

And history, if there is any...will be written by radiation contaminated survivors...I'm sure they'll not take sides and blame all of the above...as they should...

[patentlymn]

What is sickening and amazing is that most of this Ukr war result was so predictable.
Here is the US/West/Ukr knew.
1. Russia was threatened by eastward NATO expansion.
2. Russia regarded Ukraine as a red line.
3. Ukr had massed 60-80K troops to attack Donbass in Mar 2022
4. After this attack, at the latest, Russia would get involved in the war.
5. The war would create refugees, impact food exports.
6. Sanctioning Russian gas would screw the EU big time.
7. There was NO substitute for Russian gas.
8. Without Russian gas German heavy industry and chemicals would collapse and then German economy and then Germany. Also German citizens would freeze in the dark.

The US/West 'knew' that the resulting sanctions would collapse Russia. They were WRONG.

The above link included a conclusion that Putin was "cornered" and maybe needed to "save face."
What are they smoking?

In WWII the Germans and Japs wanted resources, oil, rubber, mines, ag land. Some slave labor.
What did the western Ukr people stand to gain with this war.? They got to screw over Russians.
All they had to do was let them speak Russian and have a little autonomy, like many multi ethnic countries in Europe.

[patentlymn]

photos at link

https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/11405?single
??Today Gazprom representative Sergey Kupriyanov recalled the events on the Nord Stream gas pipeline, which have already been recorded earlier. This case is well known.

??On November 6, 2015, during a planned visual inspection of the Nord Stream gas pipeline, the NATO mine destroyer Sea Fox was discovered, which lay in the space between the strings, clearly under one of them. It was a point 651 km at a depth of 40 meters.

??Then the explosive device was removed by the Swedish armed forces. Gas transportation, stopped due to the emergency, has been restored. NATO said the underwater mine destroyer was "lost" in the exercise.

[Libertas]

Does anybody care, who did what or why...or even know the real why's?  No.

Is anybody backing down?  No.

Will anybody back down?  No.

"They had a deal worked out. It has been reported in multiple sources that they had a deal worked out. And the deal was basically that Vladimir Putin would pull back, he would pull back his troops and leave Ukraine under the condition that ... very simple condition that Ukraine guaranteed autonomy for the Donbas region and agreed to never join NATO."

"Like that was the deal... I'm not saying that's the perfect deal but it's better than what we got right now."

Joe Rogan then chimed in: "It's better than nuclear war."
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/joe-rogan-dave-smith-break-down-real-reasons-russia-invaded-ukraine-viral-clip

Yeah, also true..also...nobody calling shots cares.

Russia will not give up its new territories...our occupation government and the Eurotards are willing to economically destroy their nations rather than yield an inch in Ukraine.

The fact that people are unable to understand these undeniable facts and rise up and depose all masters illustrates why the we are in this sh*t as much as anything...want fingers pointing to the guilty...point them at ourselves...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/second-day-air-raid-sirens-across-ukraine-energy-facilities-pummeled

The war is ratcheting up, it will not stop...

Clownworld...

[patentlymn]

You can learn a lot by just watching and listening. Moat of what I believe about the Kiev govt comes from watching and listening to them. They say they want their land back. They almost never mention the people on that land, ,because they hate them and prefer the land without the people currently on it.

I see a recent photo of the Ukr head of defense, Gen Zalu..... He has a bracelet on with swastikas. It does say something about him.

I listen to the Kiev troops talk about the ethnic Russians in Ukraine. They say they are sub humans. I listen to the ethnic Russians asked why they are being shelled in the east. "Because they say we are subhumans." or "They want to drive us from the land" or "We are easy to kill." So total agreement there. Why not believe them both?

Then there is US sec def Austin. He says the US goal is to bleed Russia white to harm Russia. The dumb SOB made a mistake and told the truth. He did not even mention Ukrainians because the US does not care about Ukrainians.

Most of the people on the Russian controlled lands in Ukr want to be free of Kiev so that is good enough for me. Some local autonomy used to be enough. Now they know more about the Kiev govt and had enough. I do not care to see them slaughtered by Kiev.

Kiev has been turning civilians in the east into blood splatters for 8 years. Now the MSM goes nuts over the most recent day of Russian attacks. Didn't the US/NATO bomb Serbia for 3 months straight?  I wish the MSM would put this into perspective.

I gave the benefit of the doubt to the US govt for most of the recent wars but not this one as I pay closer attention.

[Libertas]

You can learn a lot by just watching and listening. Moat of what I believe about the Kiev govt comes from watching and listening to them. They say they want their land back. They almost never mention the people on that land, ,because they hate them and prefer the land without the people currently on it.

I see a recent photo of the Ukr head of defense, Gen Zalu..... He has a bracelet on with swastikas. It does say something about him.

I listen to the Kiev troops talk about the ethnic Russians in Ukraine. They say they are sub humans. I listen to the ethnic Russians asked why they are being shelled in the east. "Because they say we are subhumans." or "They want to drive us from the land" or "We are easy to kill." So total agreement there. Why not believe them both?

Then there is US sec def Austin. He says the US goal is to bleed Russia white to harm Russia. The dumb SOB made a mistake and told the truth. He did not even mention Ukrainians because the US does not care about Ukrainians.

Most of the people on the Russian controlled lands in Ukr want to be free of Kiev so that is good enough for me. Some local autonomy used to be enough. Now they know more about the Kiev govt and had enough. I do not care to see them slaughtered by Kiev.

Kiev has been turning civilians in the east into blood splatters for 8 years. Now the MSM goes nuts over the most recent day of Russian attacks. Didn't the US/NATO bomb Serbia for 3 months straight?  I wish the MSM would put this into perspective.

I gave the benefit of the doubt to the US govt for most of the recent wars but not this one as I pay closer attention.

Yeah...I don't know what to tell ya?

Short answer - who cares?  Seriously, who...and more importantly, who will after the Earth is a radioactive cinder?

Long answer - not sure if you are expecting something impossible to happen...like everybody agrees with you, the wars and hate and suffering end and it's sunshine and harmony and whatever...but it is just totally unrealistic.

Like Zulu Utkin & Wagner Group are Putin's Nazi's...who cares?

Ukrainians oppressed by Russians from Soviet days turn the tables on ethnic Russians and call them sub-humans...who cares?

It's their land, eh?  No need to speak Ukrainian?  Reckon same applies here...immigrant enclaves need not speak English or recognize American laws...must agree with that too.  Who cares?

Neither Russia nor Ukraine or anybody else wants a truly independent Ukraine...under any border scheme.  Who cares?

Will any of this BS matter when the fires of Hell unleash?  Nope.

The blame game will go nowhere...

Because citizens everywhere are to blame for having petty, envious, lustful, greedy low-life immoral trash as leaders...

EVERYWHERE!!!

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/10/10/biden-announces-u-s-air-defense-system-for-ukraine-following-retaliatory-russian-missile-attacks/

https://tsarizm.com/news/eastern-europe/2022/10/11/lukashenko-leading-belarus-into-russia-ukraine-war-we-have-agreed-to-deploy-a-regional-grouping-of-the-russian-federation-and-the-republic-of-belarus/

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/10/biden-administration-best-start-world-war-iii/

Point fingers all you want...in the end there cannot be a conflict unless all parties see it as an advantage...who cares if their reasons are full of sh*t?  They have the power, yes?  People gave them the power willingly...or are too stupid, weak or cowardly to deny them the power.  It is irrefutable.

Make peace with your God and plan accordingly to reality.

https://youtu.be/ptro0vwRMaA