Author Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine  (Read 88356 times)

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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1280 on: February 14, 2023, 12:16:13 PM »
Umm...ahhh...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/02/seymour-hersh-speaks-hold-president-account/

Methinks Seymour has too easily forgotten whom the illegitimate puppet FJB answers to and whom they already control...

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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1281 on: February 15, 2023, 10:39:21 AM »

These people are crazier than I realized. But they were crazy enough to blow up the NS pipeline.
How long until Russia and China supply modern weapons to US and Mexican drug gangs?

Reports that US is recruiting and training Islamic terrorists to operate inside Russia.

https://youtu.be/GFYaldgDx44
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1282 on: February 16, 2023, 08:35:10 AM »
Well, you can't have escalation without crazy and stupid bastards on all sides...

Item 1 - How about that...umm...ahh...South African...ehh...(snort)...n..navy?!   ::laughonfloor::

“We are very much looking forward to seeing the Russian and Chinese navies in action; I am sure our navy will learn a lot,”
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/south-africa-host-strange-naval-drills-warships-china-russia

Yeah...like, we don't have that, can't do that, don't, can't, don't, can't...

 ::laughonfloor::

Looks to me like a "shiny" moment and that's all...

Oh, and... 

“In April 2017, it was reported that the Zircon had reached a speed of Mach 8 during a test. If that information is accurate, the Zircon missile would be the fastest in the world, making it nearly impossible to defend against due to its speed alone.

“Another valuable aspect of the missile is its plasma cloud. During flight, the missile is completely covered by a plasma cloud that absorbs any rays of radio frequencies and makes the missile invisible to radars. This allows the missile to remain undetected on its way to the target.”


Plasma...untrackable?  Uhh huh...  I don't think this idiot knows what plasma is.

Built-in hubris that if believed makes their deployment a certainty...

Combined with Item 2 and you really increase the crazy stupid -

Andrey Gurulyov, a State Duma member and former military commander, recently gave a warning to the United States during a broadcast on the Kremlin-controlled Russia-1 network.

In a panel moderated by host Vladimir Solovyov, Gurulyov said that Americans “won’t come to their senses” until they “get hit with a nuke on their skull.”

The Russian ultra-nationalist also claimed that a nuclear strike was the only path forward to ensure lasting peace.

“There is no other way to talk to these fools,” Gurulyov said.

https://beckernews.com/2-russian-politician-nuke-49338/

More loose talk from Rus about tossing nukes, yeah...that's not batshyt-crazy....

/

And the mongrel doesn't even have the intellectual honesty to separate the innocent oppressed citizens of America from its illegitimate vote-stealing puppets and their DeepState overlords...no, he goes on to another typical mad Russian rant about conquering the entire world...  It appears that using this clown's logic means every Rus is a blood-thirsty nuke-tossing world-dominating megalomaniac, eh?

Yeah, there is totally stable MFers in leadership positions in every nation...

/

/

/



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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1283 on: February 16, 2023, 11:59:23 AM »

At least the Russian guy is only a member of the Duma, a crazy politician. I do not recall any Russian officials in authority positions mentioning nukes. I only recall the MSM putting those words in their mouths.

What would happen after a Chinese missile hit a US carrier? 5,000 dead.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1284 on: February 16, 2023, 12:38:05 PM »
Umm, no...

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov basically echoed statements made by Putin in the past that nukes would be used in "self defense" if "attacked"...neither of which were limited by being attacked with nuclear or convention weapons...

There was also Putin's "not a bluff" televised address back in September which I believe I posted in this thread where he said their nukes are more modern than the West's and they are prepared to use them.

And the above is merely a reiteration of his 2020 nuclear deterrent policy statement that a nuclear response is on the table if conventional attacks on its "government and military infrastructure"...which is a pretty broad list of possibilities that now extends into annexed territories.

Lavrov, Patrushev, Peskov, Shoigu all warn of apocalyptic responses should this red line or that red line be crossed even with conventional means...

Putin in December even floated removing a "no first use" promise in their doctrine.

Scroll backwards in this thread...you'll find the quotes and links.

As for Chi-Com's hitting a carrier...that would trigger some kinetic action all along their military infrastructure...getting through the defensive screens means they'd have to launch a sh*tload of them though...everybody else in the Pacific Basin would be going hot...it would trigger a global war no doubt.
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1285 on: February 16, 2023, 04:35:59 PM »

At the time., I looked into direct quotes by Putin that turned out to be not as bad as what was attributed to him.
I recall Putin saying they would use all means at their disposal to defend the motherland. Since Russia has nukes the headlines said he threatened to use nukes.

Now some guy "basically echoed" Putin.

I know all the references you referred to. As with Trump, I prefer only direct quotes.

I recall some statement by Putin that said nukes might be used if the west attempted to decapitate Moscow using non nuclear means. E.g. B-52s.

I give the same weight to Duma members that I would give to members of congress. Very little. Who was the congress critter who worried that all the US weapons on Guam might make it tip over?
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1286 on: February 16, 2023, 04:49:47 PM »
Putin's statements came off Russia TV and Russia news...

Our idiots come off MFM...

Are we not trusting each others idiots?

If not then does it really matter what anybody says or doesn't say if nobody wants to hear it?

I don't think this leaves the world in a better position...

 ::unknowncomic::

All are fvcked!

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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1287 on: February 17, 2023, 08:49:11 AM »
Useless EU loves to beat up on the internal politics of Poland and Hungary...



https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/notorious-drug-trafficking-hub-used-russian-oil-shipments

...but the butthead's of Brussels cannot even reign in dark fleet operations off of its Spanish members coast!

What a bunch of inept clowns!   ::hysterical::

Meanwhile...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/belarus-says-army-ready-join-war-if-attacked

That homicidal lunatic reminds me of somebody...

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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1288 on: February 17, 2023, 11:52:57 AM »

I never decided whether smugglers are good guys or bad guys. Ever watch The Scarecrow of Romney Marsh? That is also where I first heard the phrase "press gang." Now common in Ukraine.

IMO a good summary of Ukraine. The MSM coverage of the Ukraine war is unbelievable to me. In just one aspect, there are zero or close to zero major media western reporters in Russian controlled lands in Ukraine. Same with the non Kiev controlled eastern areas of Ukraine before 2022. I have seen Al jazeera and Tele Sur. There are a few independents but some have been criminally charged back in their home countries.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/rickards-horrifying-endgame-ukraine
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1289 on: February 17, 2023, 12:08:04 PM »
It's one-sided...but who cares?

America bad!  Russia bears zero responsibility for the end result!  Feel better?

Going to feel better with that narrative or any other one once the bright flashes pop, mushroom clouds rise and fallout rains down on the poor miserable survivors around the planet?

I'm sure topic #1 on everybody's minds will be who in particular to blame...

/

What nobody is talking about is a sensible way out of all this mess...but ALL SIDES are cemented in reinforced concrete in their positions and desired outcomes...

It is inevitable...inescapable...

I blame no one person/entity/government/nation.

I blame ALL!

That's the God honest truth.
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1290 on: February 17, 2023, 04:51:31 PM »

Someone went back to the Afghanistan war to predict how Ukraine will end.

1. We will never leave Afghanistan.
2. The Afghan president flees the country with $160 million in cash in suitcases.
3  The US leaves.
4. No one talks about it any more.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1291 on: February 18, 2023, 10:11:20 AM »
I don't think the world is that lucky...
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1292 on: February 18, 2023, 11:20:11 AM »


This history teacher created a bunch of videos on Ukraine history
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_bcNuRxKtpEpCktnPjYD0yF053mDcDR7

I only watched one, 11 min long, focused on brief history before 1918 then mostly 1918.
There are 2 interesting maps.
4:55 shows several states that were part of the Soviets  soon after the revolution.
I have heard of the "historically Ukrainian parts of Ukraine" and I think this map shows that.
I think this part independently had a peace treaty with the central powers (Germany et al.) to end WWI which the Russians did not agree with.
https://youtu.be/vzGpUVX0Q54?list=PL_bcNuRxKtpEpCktnPjYD0yF053mDcDR7&t=289
 

9:57 Shows the Polish areas of Ukraine in 1918. The video ends in 1918.
The map at 9:55 shows the "historically Polish areas of Ukraine."
https://youtu.be/vzGpUVX0Q54?list=PL_bcNuRxKtpEpCktnPjYD0yF053mDcDR7&t=555

Another good map in this different video. At 0:55
https://youtu.be/dgbY8J3-wKM?t=51
[lowkeysays]https://youtu.be/dgbY8J3-wKM?t=51[/lowkeysays]
The Polish–Ukrainian War (1919) - How Poland Seized Galicia After the Battle of Lemberg


https://youtu.be/6g4o3mILWao
 
Why Did Ukraine Fail to Achieve Independence After the First World War?

7:30 From 1917 to 1920 Kiev changed hands 12 times.
7:50 "Until the end of the nineteenth century, the idea of an independent state had existed mainly in Shevenko's poetry and Cossack myth. With the exception of the Western Ukraine, where the landowners were mostly Poles, the mass of the peasants remained untouched by the intelligentsia's nationalism." - A People's Tragedy" A History of the Russian Revolution (Orlando Figes)
https://www.amazon.com/Peoples-Tragedy-Russian-Revolution-1891-1924/dp/014024364X?asin=014024364X&revisionId=&format=4&depth=1


8:10 The peasants did not support Ukrainian nationalism because the leaders put their own interests above land reforms  so there was nothing it for the peasants.

9:00 "The urban head of the Ukrainian national movement was thus cut off from it rural body. What remained was a local peasant nationalism, focused on the idea of the autonomous village, which continued to dominate the Ukraine, making it virtually impossible to rule from cities, until the 1920s."

10:20  After 2 red invasions of Ukraine and peasant rebellions, Lenin decided to court the Ukrainian peasants by creating a USSR version of nationalism. They taught Ukrainian language in schools. 1920s Soviets introduced Ukrainian language into schools, street names, offices, Soviet documents, newspapers. Soviets used Ukrainian language to introduce pro Soviet propaganda. More students learned to read Ukrainian in 1920s then all of nineteenth century. This pulled the peasants away from the white Russians AND the Ukrainian nationalists.

11:00 Stalin ended this pro Ukrainian practice.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1293 on: February 18, 2023, 12:45:14 PM »
I know all this history intimately...guy glosses over the pre-1917 history pretty quickly.

Ukraine sits in what was part of the Scythian people of the ancient world...was the center of the rise of the Kievan Rus...note this is Kievan Rus...not Rus of Kiev...a blend of the Norse, Eastern Slavics and likely a smattering of other ethnic strains that occupied territory comprising most of modern day Ukraine, Belarus and Northwest Russia and bits of Finland.  The state faltered, Kievan Rus settled in large numbers in the area around Moscow and other groups splintered into other points of the compass...when the Roman Byzantine Empire collapsed and the old alliances and rivalries among them and the Khazars, Persians and Arabs flung open the area to conquest...

Ukrainian territory was controlled by outsiders - Golden Horde, Crimean Khanate, Lithuania and Poland. 

After Poland got its ass kicked and it was partitioned and Russia defeated the Crimean Khanate the Russians and Hapsburgs controlled Ukraine along a roughly East/West division.  It is here the history gets personal.  Though partitioned the Poles retained a managerial influence in Western Ukraine for their Hapsburg overlords, they ran the bureaucracies - trains, city administrators and clerical positions - they were required to speak the overlord tongues and made the locals speak Polish to conduct daily business...it is why my family thought for years my grandfather was Polish, until I did the research and had things verified by a friend in Ukraine 40 years ago...he was Ruthenian, a Western branch of the Ukrainian people and most often peasants kept in their place.  Rising Ukrainian nationalism in the 19th century had its root in the discovery of Western European "Age of Enlightenment" philosophers et al.  But the common people were always kept 3rd class, and that did not change under any overlord...so little wonder grandfather got out of there after the chaos of WWI and tyranny of the Leninists.

Freedom is always easily dismissed by overlords when it is deemed by the overlords as undesirable for them for their own good because they are too stupid to govern themselves without betters doing it...it's as old as Cain and Able.

History indicates if one ethnicity has a claim to preeminent Slavic Master it's the Kievan Rus of modern Ukraine...they came to dominate the Duchy of Moscow which later would throw off its Golden Horde masters and evolve into Tsarist Russia, then Soviet Russia...and now the modern Russian Federation...the latter erasing history and asserting its Slavic Hegemony.

Might makes right after all.  And conquers make history fit their ego.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2023, 12:48:28 PM by Libertas »
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1294 on: February 18, 2023, 09:24:50 PM »
^^^ Good post. As is often true, much is over my head.
The ethnic Ukrainians existed for a long time.
I sometimes hear that the modern state of Ukraine did not exist until a certain year.
Then again, I recall Thomas Sowell saying that Italians were not called Italians until they landed at Ellis Island and were called Italians by US immigration. They were Neapolitan/whatever before.

As I understand the videos, they do not say that Ukrainian nationalism did not exit. They say it did not exist until recently. As I recall, the 1940s had a major boost.

I heard that the USSR boosted Ukraine nationalism and clamped down on it. The videos stopped at Stalin so I remain ignorant as to what happened next.

I read many books by Thomas Sowell, including Immigration and Culture, Conquest and Culture, and Race and Culture. Maybe a foot of shelf space. I love that stuff. Sowell says races and cultures have been bumping into each other for thousands of years so maybe we should study them. One thing I learned is that imperial languages have lots of literature. English is the biggest example. Russian is a lesser example. Did you now that Korean language is close to Turkish due to migration?
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1295 on: February 19, 2023, 01:50:19 PM »
Italians are Latin/Romance language family, just like the French, Portuguese, Spanish etc...and post-Roman occupation by others turned Italy into a quilt of city states...the only Latin constant was the language retained by the Church of Rome.

Look at the linguistic tree and its branches and see the outliers...they make sense the further back you go...

Your Turk/Korean for example -



I find the Uralic interesting, beyond the fact that it is sometimes omitted by some...



Finnish and Hungarian, interesting.

Where we are now by sheer volume -




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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1296 on: February 20, 2023, 08:41:45 AM »
Hard to maintain a population when you keep throwing people into wars...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/demographic-challenges-weigh-russias-military-ambitions

...they were weak going into WWII, if not for assistance from the West they would have collapsed, perhaps an opportunity missed there to shorten the cold war while probably lengthening the current war...anyway WWII decimated their population...then stretched by Soviet Empire ambitions and keeping restive captives pacified...the meat-grinder of Afghanistan...and the little wars between it and Ukraine...

They may win this war...but the full cost could be debilitating going into an uncertain future...

Oh well, all water under the bridge, expect this one to go down to the bitter end...

Meanwhile, jello-headed corrupt puppet in Kyiv meeting one of the foreigners he is being extorted by and declaring victory is just around the corner...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/president-biden-pledges-new-military-aid-ukraine-surprise-visit-kyiv

...so everybody is still all-in!  Yay, eh?

Looks like he brought some hush money along...

H/T-CTH

PS - Please keep FJB, we can send others you can keep as well!   ::praying::
« Last Edit: February 20, 2023, 09:00:20 AM by Libertas »
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1297 on: February 20, 2023, 10:48:01 AM »
^^^
The demographic challenges have been discussed and are interesting; for many countries.
Years ago I read how weak the EU countries' militaries were. Many had turned into social welfare organizations.
The Ukraine army was maybe the strongest in Europe.
Under Ursula as defense minister, the German army degraded. I heard they had to use broom sticks for rifles in some drills. I later heard that these were just used as fake guns on tanks. Doolittle used those as fake guns on his planes to save weight.

US military cannot meet recruiting goals for various reasons.


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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1298 on: February 20, 2023, 11:09:48 AM »

Heard some quotes from Chris Hedges
"Out of control militarism is a disease of late stage imperialism."

"The tyranny Greece imposed on others it finally imposed on itself."
https://youtu.be/LS23-0LJbTE
Anti-War Activists Infighting Reaches Boiling Point - Chris Hedges Weighs In
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1299 on: February 20, 2023, 11:24:42 AM »
^^^
The demographic challenges have been discussed and are interesting; for many countries.
Years ago I read how weak the EU countries' militaries were. Many had turned into social welfare organizations.
The Ukraine army was maybe the strongest in Europe.
Under Ursula as defense minister, the German army degraded. I heard they had to use broom sticks for rifles in some drills. I later heard that these were just used as fake guns on tanks. Doolittle used those as fake guns on his planes to save weight.

US military cannot meet recruiting goals for various reasons.

Well, Patton had fake everything in England when he was in Eisenhower's doghouse...

And that recruiting thing was solved with waiving the HS diploma/GED requirement...

From the few, the proud...to the many, the common...the stupid...the gender confused...
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