Topic: Pretty Good Takedown Of Alarmist InfoWars Article

[trapeze]

The InfoWars article was linked this morning at Drudge. I was extremely skeptical while I was reading it and assumed that at least part of it was BS. This counter article pretty much disassembles it entirely...

...if you value traffic over credibility, a quick way to generate page views is to make any government ammunition purchase sound outrageous as possible, which is precisely the route that Paul Joseph Watson of Infowars decided to take...

Yes, in the very first paragraph of his post Smith misidentifies the .300 Remington Short-Action Ultra Magnum (300 RSAUM, or 300 SUAM), a magnum-class cartridge that Mark Swab was actually shooting and discussing, with the short-action .308 Winchester cartridge referred to in the government document. The .308 Winchester is a much less powerful cartridge.

There's more.

[Weisshaupt]

Sure, Infowars spins for their audience, but  so does "de-bunker"  Bob Owens, apparently.

Frist off, that is  not the Paul Watson infowars article he is "debunking" -- its James Smith's  article referenced by Watson's , wherein he is apparently misquoting something said by Swab.  The quote quote in question was referring to a different (custom loaded) round also using the A-MAX jacket - which may be why it was included, and perhaps more text should have been added to clarify, but Smith has a different audience and is not writing  for the consumption of the general public, so he may have assumed hi readers educated enough to know the difference. .  The ballistic co-efficient reported is accurate- and it is the highest for this caliber (.308 Win) and power of bullet.  The projectile will be thrown with the same force and therefore has no more "power" than any other .308 win, but when it actually hits the A-MAX  jacket is supposed to do a lot more damage.  Further I am not sure its a complete  mis-quote- if you look at the link referenced its referring to a 30 Cal .308 168 gr A-MAX®-- All .308 win ammo is .30 Cal.   It sure seems like this is an A-MAX .308 win 168 grain round that is being referred to, but that a 300 SAUM  chambered rifle was used to fire it.  IN which case its Bob Owen's who is misquoting things- but regardless if  a misquote is present,  I think the labeling and inaccurate description here suggests  its an honest mistake and not something done to mislead.
.
Also this is a  TAP (tactical Police Ammunition) round and its a premium service round- something you would carry on duty - not to fire for practice  at the range - unless you WANTED to waste taxpayer money.. which is noteworthy in itself. 

But Largely this "rebuttal" seems to be  quibbling over what is and is not a "modern sniper round" --- He is right--  Most of the really long range  snipers in Afghanistan are specialists using completely Custom loads for their specially made rifles.  Meanwhile Snipercentral has this to say on .308 win

The .308 is by far the most popular sniping round, and for good reason. The .308 is not punishing to shoot, has excellent terminal ballistics, behaves predictably in the wind, and perhaps most important is that it is consistent. While there are many cartridge choices that outperform the .308 in ballistics, there are few that perform as consistently as the .308 and as we know consistency is accuracy. The .30 cal bullet has long been a good performer and is very popular, which leads to more research with the .30 cal than perhaps with other calibers. While the .308 may over penetrate in some cases at shorter ranges (especially with FMJ styles bullets such as the old M118) the .308 is still used by a majority of Law Enforcement agencies. It is accepted that if you do your job and put the bullet where it counts, you can count on the .308 to do its job and incapacitate the target. The US Army preaches an 800 meter maximum effective range for the .308, the USMC preaches a 1000 yard (915 meter) max effective range. While we have made hits at 1000+ meters with the .308, we tend to agree with the Army and indicate that 800 meters is about the max limit for RELIABLE hits in all but extreme weather conditions. After that the .308 is dropping like a rock and can become inconsistent. With recent developments in ammo this range is being stretched and the 308/7.62x51 can reliably stretch that range. As an all around work horse for sniping that works great for both Law Enforcement and military sniping, the .308 is hard to beat. ....

Recommendation: The .308 is acceptable for both military and Law Enforcement use, and is very capable of 800+ meter hits on a human size target. If you are a Law Enforcement sharpshooter, keep in mind the penetrating power of the .308, especially with full metal jacket rounds like the old M118.

So I will let the reader be the judge if 800 Meters is enough range for  "sniping" or not,  if the training of 700 Snipers for use by Obama's Home security force that he wants to be the equal of the us military is a threat or not, and if giving them .308 ammo intended for actual combat is for training them for "Sniping" or arming them to go on patrol.

As usual, the actual facts reported at Infowars seem to be accurate.  A Requisition was made - for exactly this round, by DHS, and that most people consider this round to be a "standard" sniping round - the workhouse of the profession actually.

[Libertas]

The .308 is by far the most popular sniping round, and for good reason.

http://www.snipercentral.com/308.htm

Yes.  Only higher-end shooters would go up to .338 Lapua or .50 BMG.

[Glock32]

During WWII snipers of every nation's forces were using variants of their standard infantry cartridge: .30-06 for the USA, .303 for the British Commonwealth forces, 8mm Mauser for the Germans, 6.5 Carcano for the Italians, 7.62x54R for the Soviets. The Japanese were the only ones who seemed to have trouble standardizing on anything, which complicated their logistical requirements.

All of these rounds were more or less in the same ballpark as the .308 or 7.62 NATO cartridge today. It's definitely still a genuine sniper cartridge and is still the most common in Western armies. The rise of the .50 BMG, .338 Lapua, and .300 Winchester Magnum is a response to a few different factors: the open terrain of recent battle areas, dramatically improved optics with ballistic computation capability, and the broadening of sniping to include an anti-materiel mission.

For anti-personnel use at less than 1,000 yards the .308 is still as good a choice as any. It's a caliber notably absent from my collection. The "want" list is already so long, though.

[Libertas]

During WWII snipers of every nation's forces were using variants of their standard infantry cartridge: .30-06 for the USA, .303 for the British Commonwealth forces, 8mm Mauser for the Germans, 6.5 Carcano for the Italians, 7.62x54R for the Soviets. The Japanese were the only ones who seemed to have trouble standardizing on anything, which complicated their logistical requirements.

All of these rounds were more or less in the same ballpark as the .308 or 7.62 NATO cartridge today. It's definitely still a genuine sniper cartridge and is still the most common in Western armies. The rise of the .50 BMG, .338 Lapua, and .300 Winchester Magnum is a response to a few different factors: the open terrain of recent battle areas, dramatically improved optics with ballistic computation capability, and the broadening of sniping to include an anti-materiel mission.

For anti-personnel use at less than 1,000 yards the .308 is still as good a choice as any. It's a caliber notably absent from my collection. The "want" list is already so long, though.

Aye.