Topic: Last straw for NATO to exist?

[Libertas]

Do we care?

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/eu-army-horizon

Only if it gets us out of NATO and out of Europe...otherwise...not at all.

[Libertas]

Finland to vote on it perhaps next Monday...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/finland-days-away-applying-nato-after-approval-issued-nations-defense-committee

...wonder what the outcome would be if we said we're out?  Alas, perhaps it could be a future surprise...

[Libertas]

On or before Monday...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/finlands-president-announces-country-apply-nato-membership-without-delay

[Libertas]

Apps filed.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/finland-and-sweden-formally-apply-join-nato

The sketchy Turks led by that senile madman looking for some payola...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/turkey-swiftly-blocks-nato-accession-talks-sweden-finland-issues-list-demands

No doubt they'll get some of that.

And the uber Cuck McConnell thinks he can fast-track ratification...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/mcconnell-says-congress-hopes-approve-swedens-nato-bid-august

...and given the number of Cucks and Commies, it probably will sail through...

Seems pretty obvious we will never unchain ourselves from the Euro-fools...                     

[Libertas]

Tired of carrying these losers...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/nato-countries-have-heavily-cut-troop-levels

...but the DemComs and Cucks will never cut them loose...

 

[Libertas]

Chisel "never escaping this madness" in granite...               

https://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,9929.new.html#new

[Libertas]

In the grand scheme of things...with the world descending into so many Hells of their own making...this probably doesn't stack very high, but...whatever...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/latvia-designates-russia-terrorist-state-urges-europe-follow

A Russian diplomat warned that if his country is declared a state sponsor of terrorism, it could not only harm US-Russo relations but potentially sever them completely.

On Friday, Alexander Darchiyev, director of the Russian Foreign Ministry's North American department told the TASS news agency:

"I would like to mention the legislative initiative currently being discussed in Congress to declare Russia a 'country sponsor of terrorism.' If passed, it would mean that Washington would have to cross the point of no return, with the most serious collateral damage to bilateral diplomatic relations, up to their lowering or even breaking them off. The US side has been warned."

Senators Lindsey Graham (R-SC) and Richard Blumenthal (D-CT) have been leading an effort to pressure the Biden administration into making the terror designation, which would allow new categories of sanctions. The are only four designated countries today: Cuba, North Korea, Iran and Syria.

On July 28, the Senate passed a non-binding resolution calling on Secretary of State Antony Blinken to designate the Russian Federation as a state sponsor of terrorism. At the time, Graham said this about a potential designation:

"It means that doing business with Russia with that designation gets to be exceedingly hard – it has secondary effect sanctions, it would limit dual export items, and more importantly it would waive sovereign immunity when it came to suing Russia in U.S. courts. This designation would be a nightmare for Russia."

Blinken, however, has said a terror designation wouldn't change things much: "The costs that have been imposed on Russia by us and by other countries are absolutely in line with the consequences that would follow from designation as a state sponsor of terrorism.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-says-it-may-sever-us-relations-if-declared-terrorism-sponsor

Meh...

[patentlymn]

So Latvia put Russia on double secret probation .....
If I were the leader of a country I would try to do best for my country.
Long after the US has gone on to the next current thing Russia will still remember.
I am guessing this will harm Latvia in the long term.
Kissinger said it was bad to be a US enemy but worse to be an ally.

The dumbest thing I have seen is the EU energy policy. First they should not have shut down nuclear and coal and should not have counted on wind and should not have relied so much on Russian gas. BUT having done that, they need Russian gas. Freezing their people to reduce the cash flow to Russia is insane.

The early anti Russian sanctions, years before the Russian invasion,  screwed over Ukrainian business. Also some in other countries.

[Libertas]

No sympathy for previous victims of Russian totalitarianism, I get it...

Europe choosing to be a victim...I have less sympathy for...

IMO Europe would be better if the Western nations ceded political, moral and cultural leadership to the Central nations...

That way, the NATO umbilical could be cut one day...as it is, if America doesn't collapse from its internal rot within (aided by money and influence abroad by a wide range of suspects we all know)...Europe will drag it into oblivion.

But, in a world of sh*t choices we don't have control over...whatever...

[patentlymn]

Not NATO but EU.
https://t.me/EurasianChoice/18103
🇵🇱🏳??🌈 Poland threatened to sue the EU, block all European initiatives and remove von der Leyen if it does not receive 35 billion euros
...
According to the politician, if the European Commission does not allocate 35 billion euros to fight the pandemic, Warsaw will sue Brussels, veto all EU initiatives and create an alliance to dismiss Ursula von der Leyen and her college of commissioners.
...
Warsaw has been in a bitter dispute with the European Commission for several months over the allocation of funds for reconstruction. Brussels demands that Poland "stop homophobic rhetoric and oppression of LGBT+".

[Libertas]

Fine with me...

You go, Poland!

[patentlymn]

Notice how any leader that resists the globalists like the EU are "thugs"?
We are told that every leader that resists the US is a thug. Ghadaffi, Assad, Orban, Luchenko, Putin.
Assad is an eye doctor. He is very popular.

The EU is committing suicide anyway. I listed all the ways in which they did things  to freeze  in the dark.

https://freewestmedia.com/2022/08/04/fatal-ecj-ruling-italy-can-no-longer-control-migrant-ships/
Fatal ECJ ruling: Italy can no longer control migrant ships

A judgment with a devastating message: Italian authorities will no longer be allowed to check rescue ships of various "refugee" aid organizations, which usually enter the ports with migrants. Only in case of danger will this be allowed. This emerges from a decision of the European Court of Justice.

[patentlymn]

No sympathy for previous victims of Russian totalitarianism, I get it...

...

I think Latvia would be better off getting along with Russia. They should do what is best for them, not worse for Russia. If you live next to a 900 pound gorilla it is best to accommodate the gorilla.

I look at the diplomats and leaders from Russia and China. Then I look at those from the west. The west is lead by emotional children. Maybe HS mean girls is more accurate. How does Latvia think this will help them?

One theory is that the western leaders care more about the opinion of the fellow leaders in "the club" than that of their citizens.  Economic harm to Latvia will not fall on the leaders.

[Libertas]

No sympathy for previous victims of Russian totalitarianism, I get it...

...

I think Latvia would be better off getting along with Russia. They should do what is best for them, not worse for Russia. If you live next to a 900 pound gorilla it is best to accommodate the gorilla.

I look at the diplomats and leaders from Russia and China. Then I look at those from the west. The west is lead by emotional children. Maybe HS mean girls is more accurate. How does Latvia think this will help them?

One theory is that the western leaders care more about the opinion of the fellow leaders in "the club" than that of their citizens.  Economic harm to Latvia will not fall on the leaders.

That's the might-makes-right-regardless-if-you-like-it-or-not means of operation, which if accepted cannot be discriminated against by one gorilla in favor of another...

I'd be your Huckleberry.   

[patentlymn]

No sympathy for previous victims of Russian totalitarianism, I get it...

...

I think Latvia would be better off getting along with Russia. They should do what is best for them, not worse for Russia. If you live next to a 900 pound gorilla it is best to accommodate the gorilla.

I look at the diplomats and leaders from Russia and China. Then I look at those from the west. The west is lead by emotional children. Maybe HS mean girls is more accurate. How does Latvia think this will help them?

One theory is that the western leaders care more about the opinion of the fellow leaders in "the club" than that of their citizens.  Economic harm to Latvia will not fall on the leaders.

That's the might-makes-right-regardless-if-you-like-it-or-not means of operation, which if accepted cannot be discriminated against by one gorilla in favor of another...

I'd be your Huckleberry.   

I accept reality. I think the leaders of Latvia should do what is best for their people not virtue signal to fellow leaders.

[Libertas]

No sympathy for previous victims of Russian totalitarianism, I get it...

...

I think Latvia would be better off getting along with Russia. They should do what is best for them, not worse for Russia. If you live next to a 900 pound gorilla it is best to accommodate the gorilla.

I look at the diplomats and leaders from Russia and China. Then I look at those from the west. The west is lead by emotional children. Maybe HS mean girls is more accurate. How does Latvia think this will help them?

One theory is that the western leaders care more about the opinion of the fellow leaders in "the club" than that of their citizens.  Economic harm to Latvia will not fall on the leaders.

That's the might-makes-right-regardless-if-you-like-it-or-not means of operation, which if accepted cannot be discriminated against by one gorilla in favor of another...

I'd be your Huckleberry.   

I accept reality. I think the leaders of Latvia should do what is best for their people not virtue signal to fellow leaders.

So if they virtue signal to Moscow its not virtue signaling? 

All I ask is for a level playing field...

There is no level playing field...

So, accepting that definition of reality IMO sounds an awful lot like being OK with an unlevel playing field...

I'm not built that way.  True reality dictates that no citizens anywhere are more free...they are only tiny gradient variances of servitude once you throw out outliers like North Korea, Iran, Venezuela etc...

So, really...from a citizen point of view...the decision of their masters literally makes no materially quantifiable difference...it's not picking a friend...it's choosing which wolf to be obedient to...which is not the same thing as best for the people...

Nobody cares about the people...they've all made it clear by siding with WEF and ESG and Net Zero and lockdowns and masking and clot-shots they are perfectly happy to snuff a lot of the people from existence...

Also, I know a Latvian couple, liberal, not moonbat-crazy DemoCommie, classic liberals...and they have not a whit of fondness for Russians and their government...and it seems most back home they visit are of a like mind.  I reckon it is decades of persecution and abuse that bred resentment into the people...

Not a very realistic thing to ask people to chuck aside, just because somebody else thinks you should...

[patentlymn]

...
Nobody cares about the people...they've all made it clear by siding with WEF and ESG and Net Zero and lockdowns and masking and clot-shots they are perfectly happy to snuff a lot of the people from existence...

Also, I know a Latvian couple, liberal, not moonbat-crazy DemoCommie, classic liberals...and they have not a whit of fondness for Russians and their government...and it seems most back home they visit are of a like mind.  I reckon it is decades of persecution and abuse that bred resentment into the people...

Not a very realistic thing to ask people to chuck aside, just because somebody else thinks you should...

There is saying "cutting off your nose to spite your face."
IMO that is what some country's leaders are doing except it is cutting off other people's noses to spite Russia.

Earlier sanctions screwed Ukraine good. They were selling to Russia then came sanctions and they were screwed. I recall some ag products. The EU cheered on the sanctions but Ukr is not part of the EU and they protected their own farmers so Ukr could not sell to EU as best I recall.

I recall the Ukr Motosich company made high end engines and turbines and sold to Russia then they got screwed by anti Russian sanctions. They fell on hard times and China made an investment and started making their product in China and likely stole their IP .

Others noted that the anti Russian sanctions served as protective tariffs which helped Russian industry. They also prevented Russians buying some foreign goods which served as capital controls.

[Libertas]

...
Nobody cares about the people...they've all made it clear by siding with WEF and ESG and Net Zero and lockdowns and masking and clot-shots they are perfectly happy to snuff a lot of the people from existence...

Also, I know a Latvian couple, liberal, not moonbat-crazy DemoCommie, classic liberals...and they have not a whit of fondness for Russians and their government...and it seems most back home they visit are of a like mind.  I reckon it is decades of persecution and abuse that bred resentment into the people...

Not a very realistic thing to ask people to chuck aside, just because somebody else thinks you should...

There is saying "cutting off your nose to spite your face."
IMO that is what some country's leaders are doing except it is cutting off other people's noses to spite Russia.

Earlier sanctions screwed Ukraine good. They were selling to Russia then came sanctions and they were screwed. I recall some ag products. The EU cheered on the sanctions but Ukr is not part of the EU and they protected their own farmers so Ukr could not sell to EU as best I recall.

I recall the Ukr Motosich company made high end engines and turbines and sold to Russia then they got screwed by anti Russian sanctions. They fell on hard times and China made an investment and started making their product in China and likely stole their IP .

Others noted that the anti Russian sanctions served as protective tariffs which helped Russian industry. They also prevented Russians buying some foreign goods which served as capital controls.

They'd get it in the shorts too if they picked Russia...

I argue there is no difference...the trade offs and benefits would wash...the people no better than before and the elites no worse off than before...

And in Latvia's case, and likely the other 2 Baltic states, they don't like Russia...none of the formerly oppressed Soviet satellites want to be in a position to choose...most rather be independent...but that isn't being allowed by East or West...it's BS choice...

Just like our so-called choices in elections...Cucks we can't stand that will betray us vs people loving betrayal...it's all betrayal...picking any perceived lesser one is still a dumb as sh*t choice...(and that if the playing field is even nominal "fair"...snort!)

[patentlymn]

I think the Baltics should keep the status quo from before the invasion and not chose sides.

IMO they have taken some petty punitive actions that will have no effect on the war outcome so why do them? Why? Just to virtue signal so the leaders can say they "did something."
 
One of the Baltics just proposed some change so that Russian citizens could not enter using an EU (not the right term but the shengen visa?) visa.

One of them denies citizenship to Russian speakers not proficient in their language, mostly old folks from the Soviet Era. I think that was done before the invasion. Some have taken some recent anti Russian language laws but I cannot remember what.

Could be worse. After WWII millions of ethnic Germans were kicked out of countries. There were German speaking cities inside Russia with some autonomy. They were invited in hundreds of years ago to bring their advanced agriculture practices. They may have ended that before WWII.

[Libertas]

It's nice not giving a damn about any of these clowns...I don't really care what happens...