Author Topic: Last straw for NATO to exist?  (Read 31706 times)

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Offline Libertas

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #240 on: December 03, 2024, 09:35:59 AM »
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #241 on: January 20, 2025, 10:25:17 AM »
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #242 on: January 24, 2025, 09:13:05 AM »
Ahhhh...no!

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/grenell-nato-ukraine-membership-push-would-face-big-buzzsaw-us

Not going to happen.  It will be a hard pull to get these wayward bastards to get to their 5% of GDP target...Uke membership will be nearly impossible if not fully impossible.
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Offline patentlymn

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #243 on: January 24, 2025, 09:57:08 AM »

There is  a reason Russia got out of Europe and the Baltics. They suck money and are full of people they have to rule. If the Baltics want to  make themselves a bigger speed bump for Russians let them.

The worst option for the Russians, one that is likely possible, is for Kiev to refuse to capitulate then keep on attacking Russia from what is  left of Ukraine. Kiev was attacking Donetsk City for 10 years until the Russians drove them off out of artillery distance. Recently Kiev used 6 remaining Himars to attack a market in Donetsk City. Maybe other targets in the city.

Kiev doing this would force Russia to bite off and rule over parts of Ukraine they want nothing to do with.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #244 on: January 24, 2025, 10:10:08 AM »
Why does Russia have the speed-bump of Konigsberg?  It was originally Prussian, briefly a fief of Poland and later the Eastern most province of Germany that the Russians claimed as a war spoil as the Red Army rolled West into Germany in WWII that they renamed after some Soviet hack.

So...they've proven to hang onto crap in Europe already...
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Offline patentlymn

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #245 on: January 24, 2025, 12:54:53 PM »

Why does Russia have the speed-bump of Konigsberg?  It was originally Prussian, briefly a fief of Poland and later the Eastern most province of Germany that the Russians claimed as a war spoil as the Red Army rolled West into Germany in WWII that they renamed after some Soviet hack.

So...they've proven to hang onto crap in Europe already...
I recall they hold Konigsberg  as a military base.

I recall that the US did not care if Russians took Konigsberg which surprised the USSR  USSR took much more of Europe but later withdrew. Ethnic Germans were kicked out of most countries after WWII. Includes Czech. some guy maybe Peter the Great invited German farmers to settle in the Volga region bc of their advanced farming practices in part to teach the locals. They had local autonomy. I am sure they got kicked out no later than the end of WWII.

There is something in so called international law that says that if attacked a country can counter attack and take more land than they originally had. USSR did that.

Quote
The Volga Germans were ethnic Germans who settled in the Volga River region of Russia in the mid-18th century. They were invited by Catherine the Great, the German-born Empress of Russia, through a manifesto issued in 1763, which encouraged Europeans to settle in Russia to develop agriculture and industry.
Key Facts About the Volga Germans:

    Origins:
        They primarily came from regions in present-day Germany such as Hesse, Bavaria, and the Rhineland.
        Many were escaping war, religious persecution, and economic hardship in Germany.

    Settlement in Russia:
        They settled along the Volga River, near present-day Saratov and Samara, where they established autonomous German-speaking communities.
        They maintained their language, culture, and religious traditions (mostly Lutheran and Catholic).


    Privileges Given:
        Exemption from military service.
        Religious freedom.
        Self-governance and tax benefits.


    Decline and Persecution:
        In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, their special privileges were revoked, and many began emigrating to the United States, Canada, and South America.
        After the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941, Stalin ordered the deportation of Volga Germans to Siberia and Central Asia, suspecting them of being potential collaborators.
        Many faced harsh conditions, forced labor, and loss of cultural identity.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #246 on: January 24, 2025, 01:08:27 PM »

Why does Russia have the speed-bump of Konigsberg?  It was originally Prussian, briefly a fief of Poland and later the Eastern most province of Germany that the Russians claimed as a war spoil as the Red Army rolled West into Germany in WWII that they renamed after some Soviet hack.

So...they've proven to hang onto crap in Europe already...
I recall they hold Konigsberg  as a military base.

I recall that the US did not care if Russians took Konigsberg which surprised the USSR  USSR took much more of Europe but later withdrew. Ethnic Germans were kicked out of most countries after WWII. Includes Czech. some guy maybe Peter the Great invited German farmers to settle in the Volga region bc of their advanced farming practices in part to teach the locals. They had local autonomy. I am sure they got kicked out no later than the end of WWII.

There is something in so called international law that says that if attacked a country can counter attack and take more land than they originally had. USSR did that.

Quote
The Volga Germans were ethnic Germans who settled in the Volga River region of Russia in the mid-18th century. They were invited by Catherine the Great, the German-born Empress of Russia, through a manifesto issued in 1763, which encouraged Europeans to settle in Russia to develop agriculture and industry.
Key Facts About the Volga Germans:

    Origins:
        They primarily came from regions in present-day Germany such as Hesse, Bavaria, and the Rhineland.
        Many were escaping war, religious persecution, and economic hardship in Germany.

    Settlement in Russia:
        They settled along the Volga River, near present-day Saratov and Samara, where they established autonomous German-speaking communities.
        They maintained their language, culture, and religious traditions (mostly Lutheran and Catholic).


    Privileges Given:
        Exemption from military service.
        Religious freedom.
        Self-governance and tax benefits.


    Decline and Persecution:
        In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, their special privileges were revoked, and many began emigrating to the United States, Canada, and South America.
        After the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941, Stalin ordered the deportation of Volga Germans to Siberia and Central Asia, suspecting them of being potential collaborators.
        Many faced harsh conditions, forced labor, and loss of cultural identity.

Huh?  So the whole Iron Curtain thing....you saying was a myth?   :o
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Offline patentlymn

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #247 on: January 25, 2025, 02:56:02 PM »

Quote
Huh?  So the whole Iron Curtain thing....you saying was a myth?   :o

Huh? How do you get that?

I just said that the Russians pushed the German troops out of Russia and took much more land including Estern Germany. Later they gave it back. I recall Stalin was surprised that the us did not care about Koningsberg.

I recall that ethnic Germans were driven out of many countries into Germany and many had never lived in germany. I was curious as to when the volga Germans were expelled.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #248 on: January 27, 2025, 08:47:56 AM »

Quote
Huh?  So the whole Iron Curtain thing....you saying was a myth?   :o

Huh? How do you get that?

I just said that the Russians pushed the German troops out of Russia and took much more land including Estern Germany. Later they gave it back. I recall Stalin was surprised that the us did not care about Koningsberg.

I recall that ethnic Germans were driven out of many countries into Germany and many had never lived in germany. I was curious as to when the volga Germans were expelled.

There ya go again...

USSR took much more of Europe but later withdrew.

Who gave what to who?
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Offline patentlymn

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #249 on: January 27, 2025, 09:28:06 AM »
USSR controlled Czech, Hungary, East Germany and more. Now they do not.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #250 on: January 27, 2025, 11:41:35 AM »
Uhh, yeah...after we won the Cold War and their wall got tore down!  You made it sound like the Soviets pulled out at the conclusion of WWII!
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #251 on: January 27, 2025, 11:51:34 AM »
In other news...

More war-like actions against Baltic nations...

The third severing of an undersea cable in just three months occurred on Sunday, this time between Latvia and Sweden in the Baltic Sea. The incident has prompted a criminal investigation and heightened concerns of potential sabotage by Russia or China.
.
.
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Sweden, Latvia, and NATO are on high alert
.
.
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Washington Post recently cited Western officials who said these cable incidents are likely maritime accidents - not sabotage by Russia and/or China.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/nato-sweden-latvia-high-alert-after-baltic-undersea-data-cable-damaged

WaPO...mouthpiece of the IC...OK, who was the DeepState IC moron issuing that BS?

I mean come on... Once can be an accident, twice can be suspicious...three times is wake the frack up already!

And it looks like they may have seized the wrong ship...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/sweden-seizes-bulk-carrier-after-suspected-baltic-sea-undersea-fiber-cable-Sabotage

The Pskov is a Barbados flagged LNG carrier that appears to be part of the Russian "dark fleet"...and it it turned off its tracking over the cable, well, suspicious as all heck!

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Offline Libertas

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #252 on: January 28, 2025, 08:43:18 AM »
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/trump-effect-nato-chief-pleads-members-quickly-step-defense-spending

Anything that leads a shift to European's picking up the load is a path to eventual exit for us...first financial support, with it will be an organic desire to increase their role in leadership decisions...eventually we can let them stand on their own.
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Offline patentlymn

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #253 on: January 31, 2025, 07:23:17 PM »


This is good.
https://t.me/geopolitics_live/42414
🔥 'Who in Yugoslavia attacked NATO?' – Carlson DEMOLISHED Morgan’s delusions with a single question

💬 "They were bombing the sh*t out of Christians in Yugoslavia," Tucker Carlson SCHOOLED Piers Morgan on NATO aggression.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #254 on: February 03, 2025, 08:52:05 AM »
can't view...

I reckon this is about the idiotic Clinton decision to intervene in the whole Serb/Croate/Bosnia BS which we and NATO should never have been a part of...this was to precedent that led to the same stupid decision by FJB to entangle us in the Uke BS...both were/are Euro issues not impacting us...

Stupid  ::cussing::  ::cussing::
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #255 on: February 14, 2025, 10:10:55 AM »
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #256 on: February 21, 2025, 10:35:13 AM »
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/another-undersea-fiber-optic-cable-damaged-baltic-sea-incidents-pile

How many times before a coincidence can no longer be a coincidence?

They all stupid...

 ::)
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #257 on: March 04, 2025, 09:53:20 AM »
The lunatic Zelensky and the batshyt-effing-crazy Euro-warmongers are doing more to end NATO than anybody else and I for one am thankful they are doing it...

A pair of Republican lawmakers have issued public statements of support for the United States exiting the the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, or NATO. The rare call comes on the heels of the explosive row between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and President Donald Trump at the White House last Friday.

First, Senator Mike Lee (R-UT) posted to X Saturday, "Get us out of NATO." He highlighted a chart showing that the US represents around 70% of the entire annual combined defense spending of NATO countries. No other nation comes close. Lee's post also featured the conclusion of Rod Martin, who wrote: "Just to be clear, the Europeans aren’t gonna do jack."

The Europeans are at this moment trying to cobble together a "coalition of the willing" - in the Sunday words of UK prime minister Kier Starmer, to keep up strong support for Ukraine.

Second, posting in support of Sen. Lee was Rep. Thomas Massie, Republican from Kentucky, who wrote, "NATO is a Cold War relic that needs to be relegated to a talking kiosk at the Smithsonian."

All of this appears to also be pushback to a number of political leaders and media pundits lately flooding social media to show support for Zelensky as the new savior of the EU, and many have even suggested that Europe can easily fill the void that the US leaves behind. This is dangerous delusion.

On Sunday, Trump adviser Elon Musk wrote on X, "I always wondered why NATO continued to exist even though its nemesis and reason to exist, The Warsaw Pact, had dissolved."

He had said something similar on Saturday, responding "I agree" to a statement that said, "It’s time to leave NATO and the UN."

We previously featured Jacob Hornberger's words, who pointed out that the great big obstacle to bringing an end to the Ukraine-Russia conflict is NATO, the "Cold Cold War dinosaur that should have gone out of existence with the end of the Cold War, just like the Warsaw Pact did."

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/republican-lawmakers-join-musk-calling-us-exit-nato

Massie's quote is awesome, gotta deploy that one often!

And, to illustrate how seriously fed up American's are with people we've supported for over a century in the case of Europe and years in the case of Ukraine, who sh*t-talk us and exploit us and have cost us trillions...this article in AFP is really good, and staff here is loaded with vets, most with actual combat history -

NATO: Time To Turn Out The Lights
By Staff Writer
March 3, 2025
Views: 2586
Opinion by John Rosenberger, Colonel, USA, Retired

As President Trump and President Putin negotiate a lasting peace between Russia and Ukraine in the weeks ahead, the outcome now is indisputable. We, the U.S. and NATO, lost our proxy war in Ukraine, a war that will go down in history as one of our worst foreign policy disasters, even worse than our ignominious withdrawal from our 20-year war in Afghanistan. Hundreds of thousands of Russian and Ukrainian soldiers and civilians are dead, and even more are wounded and maimed. We fought to the last Ukrainian soldier, with no skin in the game. Sorrow blankets the land. Ukraine’s infrastructure has been decimated. Russia is substantially stronger economically and militarily, with stronger ties to Iran, North Korea, and China. Sanctions had little if any effect. The economies of Western Europe lie stagnant or contracting, the paucity of their military forces, capabilities, and industries starkly exposed. Political upheaval is in the air across Europe. $183 billion of our U.S. taxpayer money proved a foolish investment, enriching the corrupt Zelensky regime and the U.S. defense industry, and served no purpose other than protracting the war. Lest we forget, it was all borrowed money increasing annual deficits and the U.S. debt, which now exceeds $36 trillion. Not surprisingly, the war’s political and military pundits are growing silent. The years of utter propaganda and untruthful narrative espoused by U.S. and NATO political elites and think tanks to justify and sustain the war appears for what it was. NATO’s viability and utility have been further diminished, having proved useless for deterring Russia for over a decade, much less demonstrating that its combat equipment and methods of training enable an army to defeat Russian forces on the battlefield. Calls for dissolving NATO and creating a new security arrangement for Europe become louder each passing day. An unbiased, objective look at NATO’s performance as a military organization since 1989 strongly supports the need. For those who believe NATO is the most effective military alliance in history, I offer a more pragmatic, realistic view based on cold, hard facts. Since the Soviet Union collapsed some 35 years ago, new reasons were forged by the political elites of member nations to justify and sustain NATO’s existence. NATO morphed into an organization far removed from the purpose it was originally formed to achieve and did achieve. Yet, the treaty has never been changed. For example, from March to June 1999, NATO launched an offensive air campaign attacking the armed forces of Serbia over a period of 78 days until Serbia agreed to withdraw from Kosovo and end its conflict with Kosovo Albanians. Politicians of NATO nations, without the direct authorization of the United Nations Security Council, justified this war ostensibly to end and prevent egregious human rights abuses. Article 5 of the treaty was not invoked. It was ignored. Not a single NATO country was attacked by Serbia. Nor has peace been restored. For the past 25 years, some 4,500 NATO soldiers have remained in Kosovo to preserve an unstable peace at immense cost and expense with no end in sight. Next, consider the war in Afghanistan. NATO assumed command of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan in August 2003. This military operation marked the first deployment of NATO forces outside Europe and North America. By 2006, NATO forces were engaged in intensive combat to defeat Taliban insurgents across the entire nation. All 30 nations of NATO contributed forces to this effort. ISAF continued operations until December 2014, when the U.S. withdrew most of its forces. For these 11 years under NATO command, soldiers suffered under fifteen commanding generals, continual mission turbulence, and conflicting rules of engagement. Many commanders served six months or less. The rest, a little over a year. The Taliban was not destroyed. Just the opposite. On the heels of the U.S.'s humiliating withdrawal from Afghanistan in August 2021, followed by the unexpected and rapid collapse of the Afghan National Security Force, Taliban forces stormed across the nation and retook control of Afghanistan. 3,606 NATO soldiers were killed during operations from 2001-2021, and thousands more were grievously wounded: 68% of the casualties were from the U.S, 12% by the United Kingdom, 4.5% by Canada, and the remainder from other NATO nations. The cost was almost $1 trillion, the majority paid by U.S. taxpayers on borrowed money, and it achieved nothing. Add to this the fact that NATO was unable to deter Russia from invading and seizing Crimea and large portions of eastern Ukraine in 2014. President Putin sensed NATO’s political, economic, and military weakness and rightly judged that NATO would not intervene and engage in direct conflict with Russia. Eight years later, in February 2022, NATO failed to deter Russia from extending its invasion into Ukraine and securing even larger areas of territory in the eastern oblasts of Ukraine and Crimea. Having failed to deter Russia, NATO, led by the Biden administration, without invoking Article 5 of the NATO charter, decided to go to war against Russia in support of President Zelensky’s uncompromising political objective—recover all territory lost to Russia. Without any viable military strategy—demanded by Congress and ignored for two years—or a political objective to achieve other than “to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can’t do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine”, NATO limited its support to providing combat equipment, ammunition, and military supplies, but placing restrictions on all long-range missile systems that could strike deep into Russia for fear of provoking Russia into using nuclear weapons. NATO provided just enough to sustain the war, but not to win it. NATO nations knew full well their populations would never support the employment of NATO air and ground forces in direct combat against Russia. Instead, NATO decided to fight to the last Ukrainian soldier, with no skin in the game, hence the proxy war that it was. Let's review the bidding. Based on its performance as a military organization since its founding mission was achieved in 1989, it’s evident that NATO, under U.S. leadership, is anything but the most effective military alliance in history. Granted, it may serve a political purpose, but it has proved inept at the conduct of war and devoid of political and military strategies that brought lasting peace to any conflict it touched. Moreover, the idea that NATO could cobble together one or more army corps, blending forces from 32 nations, speaking as many different languages, all equipped and highly trained to prevail against Russia under the conditions of the Russia-Ukrainian battlefield the past three years, is laughable. There is no reason the American taxpayer should continue to support a security alliance that no longer serves the purpose for which it was formed in April 1949 nor serves as a deterrent. It's time for European nations to shoulder the burden of their own security and seek different means. No doubt the trans-Atlantic political elites and globalists will be apoplectic, let them. The people of the European nations deserve a security arrangement and military capability far better than NATO has provided. It’s time to turn out the lights.
Colonel (Ret) John D. Rosenberger served 29 years in the U.S. Army as a combined arms warrior and lifelong student of military history and strategy. Among his military assignments, he directed the SACEUR's training program for NATO CJTF HQs and commanded the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment, the vaunted OPFOR at the National Training Center. He has written and published extensively on issues related to battlefield leadership, the art of battle command, military readiness, and Joint combined arms training. He recently published op-eds highlighting critical shortfalls in military capabilities in the Pacific. The views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect the official position of JANUS Research Group, Department of the Army, or the Department of Defense.

https://armedforces.press/nato-time-to-turn-out-the-lights/

What else is there to say?   ::whatgives::
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Offline patentlymn

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #258 on: March 04, 2025, 01:39:28 PM »

Early on in the Ukr war someone, maybe Col Macgregor said that NATO would not survive this war.

BTW I am visiting  IL and not posting much.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Last straw for NATO to exist?
« Reply #259 on: March 04, 2025, 04:28:54 PM »
Hopefully nowhere near Chicago...be safe!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.