Topic: US health care costs

[patentlymn]

Some people were upset over North Memorial recent lay offs and someone listed the top 5 paid employees. The CEO made 1.2M and the next 4 were cardiologists and cardiac surgeons making 800K USD..

I am not defending the executive pay but look at the top 5 MD salaries at North. Every dollar of US health care has a lobbyist bribing congress to keep it that way. Here is an idea. Build hospitals on Native American reservations and exempt them from US regs. Fly in Indian cardiac surgeons and their teams and get cheap cardiac bypass surgeries. See below.

I asked chatgpt

As of recent data, a cardiac surgeon in Norway can expect to earn between 1 million and 1.5 million NOK per year, depending on factors such as experience, location, and the specific healthcare institution. Salaries can vary significantly, with some highly experienced surgeons earning more. Additionally, surgeons in private practice may have different earnings compared to those in public hospitals.

As of the latest exchange rates, 1 million to 1.5 million NOK is approximately 90,000 to 135,000 USD. Keep in mind that exchange rates can fluctuate, so it's a good idea to check current rates for the most accurate conversion.

A cardiologist in Norway typically earns between 1 million and 1.3 million NOK per year. In USD, that translates to approximately 90,000 to 117,000, depending on experience and the specific healthcare facility. As always, keep in mind that salaries can vary based on factors such as location and additional qualifications.

A registered nurse in Norway with around 10 years of experience typically earns between 500,000 and 600,000 NOK per year. In USD, that would be approximately 45,000 to 54,000, depending on current exchange rates. Factors such as location and the type of healthcare facility can also influence salary.

In India, a cardiac bypass surgery performed by a top surgeon, often referred to as the "Henry Ford of heart surgery," can cost between $5,000 and $10,000 USD. Prices can vary based on the hospital, the complexity of the surgery, and the specific patient's needs.

As for outcomes, cardiac bypass surgery in India generally has high success rates, often exceeding 95%. Most patients experience significant improvement in symptoms and quality of life. Complications are relatively rare, especially when performed by experienced surgeons. However, individual outcomes can vary based on a range of factors, including the patient's overall health and the presence of comorbid conditions.

[ToddF]

Anybody is free to go to school for 7 years, than slave away at an internship, all to eventually make

$90,000 per year.

Or they can just become a plumber and start making that immediately.

There are a lot of problems in this country.  A heart doctor making $800,000 per year isn't one of them.

[paulh]

It is when they rely on insurance. Went to cardio last week, $30.00 co-pay for a 15 minute question and answer session. Can't wait to see the Aetna claim. Did I ever mention Aetna SUCKS

[patentlymn]

Anybody is free to go to school for 7 years, than slave away at an internship, all to eventually make

$90,000 per year.

Or they can just become a plumber and start making that immediately.

There are a lot of problems in this country.  A heart doctor making $800,000 per year isn't one of them.

I have no idea how Norway does it. I picked them because they are not a sh*thole country plus they have a high cost of living.
Some other countries seem to have cheaper health care with good outcomes.  Many people in the US chant "universal health care" or "single payer" without asking how other countries do things.

I would like to see the actual paid bills for similar treatments from different countries. Not who paid the bills.

[Libertas]

Anybody is free to go to school for 7 years, than slave away at an internship, all to eventually make

$90,000 per year.

Or they can just become a plumber and start making that immediately.

There are a lot of problems in this country.  A heart doctor making $800,000 per year isn't one of them.

I agree, especially for the top ones.  Being in this industry I can tell you the the hospitals live or die with surgical volume and the champions in the ranks...and their compensation typically has a base plus productive component, your top surgeons can be cash cows for your organization...but they are not champions on volume alone, they also are top in their field and have very low re-admit rates etc. 

You want to pick on the cost side of things you need to bring in government regulation (Congressional muckery & CMS!) and the incremental lurch to govt single payer insanity that ripples through reimbursement rates hospitals get paid...govt leads the way and the rest tend to march along and each insurance payer has it's own contract terms, the revenue accounting is insane and margins just keep getting tighter and tighter. 

So, is Admin comp an issue, sure, especially since so many rely on consultants and their high fees to scheme new ways to eek more revenue or lower expense, if they are going to pay those high-priced jackasses they should at least get paid less for being stupid and lazy.  But there is union labor issues, state regulations and mandates that cost hospitals money, fed mandates that cost money, non-profits have to cough up so many millions per year to enjoy that designation, and lets talk about medical equipment costs and Big Pharma, and the insane payer contracting spider web.

But, the dems want to move us to single payer like England...where you are more likely to kick before getting an appointment...so soon cost will be cheaper but so will the care...

[paulh]

Can't we really blame the magic negro for this? The best doc we've ever had retired young because of the obama BS

[patentlymn]

I do not understand health care costs and never will. I notice that people almost never ask how other countries keep costs down.
I recall some MD in India called "the Henry Ford of heart surgery."  He was surgeon to the Indian PM. He turned bypass surgery into some almost assembly line process with several going on in the same room at once. For all I know the people doing the sutures were special seamstresses.

[patentlymn]

Can't we really blame the magic negro for this? The best doc we've ever had retired young because of the obama BS

Obama forced electronic health records on doctors even before Obama care. It was awful and likely killed lots of people.
Also last I heard, the records are not transferable from one vendor to another.

[patentlymn]

Chatgpt describes education requirements. Sounds similar to US but maybe med school is paid for and might start after HS.

In Norway, the education route for both a cardiac surgeon and a cardiologist involves several stages:
Cardiac Surgeon

    Medical Degree (Medisin):
        Complete a six-year medical program at a university (e.g., University of Oslo, University of Bergen).

    Internship (Turnustjeneste):
        Complete a 12-month internship in various medical fields.

    Specialization in General Surgery:
        Undertake a residency in general surgery, which typically lasts about six years.

    Subspecialization in Cardiac Surgery:
        After completing the general surgery residency, pursue further training specifically in cardiac surgery, which can take an additional 2-3 years.

    Certification:
        Obtain board certification in cardiac surgery.

Cardiologist

    Medical Degree (Medisin):
        Complete a six-year medical program.

    Internship (Turnustjeneste):
        Complete a 12-month internship.

    Specialization in Internal Medicine:
        Enter a residency in internal medicine, lasting about five years.

    Subspecialization in Cardiology:
        After internal medicine training, pursue a fellowship in cardiology, which typically lasts an additional 3-4 years.

    Certification:
        Obtain board certification in cardiology.

Additional Notes

    Language Requirement: Proficiency in Norwegian is essential, as the education and clinical practice are conducted in Norwegian.
    Continuous Education: Both fields require ongoing education and training to keep up with advancements in medicine.

This pathway can be lengthy, taking over a decade from the start of medical education to becoming a fully qualified specialist in either field.

[paulh]

Can't we really blame the magic negro for this? The best doc we've ever had retired young because of the obama BS

Obama forced electronic health records on doctors even before Obama care. It was awful and likely killed lots of people.
Also last I heard, the records are not transferable from one vendor to another.

When he retired(quit) another MD took over. His office was 50' from the Delaware river. After a massive flood all the paper records were destroyed. You can imagine my problems with the VA confirming my issues.

[patentlymn]

Given affirmative action, I was leery of some minority doctors.  Then I heard that surgeons do not have to be smart but skilled.  Surgeons are often not very smart.   You want a surgeon who has done thousands of your surgery and had good training. More like a concert pianist and less like House MD.

I was told that specialties that that require internal medicine first are a mark of a smart doctor. Cardiologists require this but not cardiac surgeons.

[paulh]

Define minority

[patentlymn]

Define minority

It wasn't meant to be rigorous. People who would not get into medical school but for their skin color? Asians are not minorities in this situation.

I recall the black guy who was first admitted to CA med school in place of Bakke (the white refused admittance to med school) committed gross malpractice. He did some plastic surgery, botched it, hid the patient outside the hospital in his home. I recall he lost his license and maybe was charged with a crime. He was not certified to do plastic surgery. Bakke was later admitted.

[Libertas]

Can't we really blame the magic negro for this? The best doc we've ever had retired young because of the obama BS

Obama forced electronic health records on doctors even before Obama care. It was awful and likely killed lots of people.
Also last I heard, the records are not transferable from one vendor to another.

By law they have to be, somebody refusing your request should be reminded of that.

[Libertas]

Can't we really blame the magic negro for this? The best doc we've ever had retired young because of the obama BS

Obama forced electronic health records on doctors even before Obama care. It was awful and likely killed lots of people.
Also last I heard, the records are not transferable from one vendor to another.

When he retired(quit) another MD took over. His office was 50' from the Delaware river. After a massive flood all the paper records were destroyed. You can imagine my problems with the VA confirming my issues.

Well, maybe because I predate the digital era...I always kept my own notations of key medical facts, fortunately not a lot of issues so I can mostly recite by memory to any doc what I've dealt with. 

[Libertas]

Oh, and, about about this BS?!

https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/27/24281170/open-ai-whisper-hospitals-transcription-hallucinations-studies

 

[patentlymn]

Can't we really blame the magic negro for this? The best doc we've ever had retired young because of the obama BS

Obama forced electronic health records on doctors even before Obama care. It was awful and likely killed lots of people.
Also last I heard, the records are not transferable from one vendor to another.

By law they have to be, somebody refusing your request should be reminded of that.

You mean the Epic EHRs can be transferred into a competitor's data base?

[Libertas]

Can't we really blame the magic negro for this? The best doc we've ever had retired young because of the obama BS

Obama forced electronic health records on doctors even before Obama care. It was awful and likely killed lots of people.
Also last I heard, the records are not transferable from one vendor to another.

By law they have to be, somebody refusing your request should be reminded of that.

You mean the Epic EHRs can be transferred into a competitor's data base?

Yes, if you change provider and authorize your records to be transferred they have to comply.  Now, I forget if there are any exemptions for small providers who still may be able to use paper records or if that was just during the transition to EHR but they had to provide paper records.  It all might be EHR by now though.  It also is in compliance with HIPPA.  And, supposedly KenyanCare (ObaMao) mandated patient provider portability...

[paulh]

According to my country doc he had to which is why he quit and moved I believe to Montana. He sold? his practice and after the new doc's first appt when he smiled after dropping my pants for the butt exam I left and now have  female primary. If she smiles I'm OK with it. My issue is I retired in 1993 at age 49-early buy out- up until age 65 I paid ZERO for full coverage as i had with Bell. Then BOOM! you're now an old fart and have to pay. Between medicare and Verizon I'm paying over $500.00/mo
When I never had to before. I'll stop cause most aren't there yet. I hope you're ready

[Libertas]

I am literally not far behind, but also not entirely ready to retire...

Fortunately I am pretty healthy, knock on wood...