Author Topic: countries with multiple languges etc.  (Read 383 times)

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Offline patentlymn

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countries with multiple languges etc.
« on: November 21, 2024, 05:50:37 PM »


I found this Ukrainian situation hard to understand at first and even now because it is so insane. In my knowledge of history I usually found rational reasons for going to war. Romans, WWII Germans, WWII Japan are easy to understand. Maybe 500K Ukr in the Kiev faction are dead  for the most insane reasons. Insanity is not usually a valid reason.

The Romans set the gold standard as I see it. They  left the  locals alone to speak their funny languages and worship their silly gods. It made the most sense. Some times they would adopt a god if they liked him or her. The Romans  adopted the Celtic goddess Epona, protector of horses and cavalry.

Georgia used to teach Georgian and Russian in schools. After USSR Georgian and English. Teaching empire languages open lots of doors. Some remote mountain Georgians grow up speaking Svan but then are taught Georgian in schools. I just met a Georgian at the  U of MN St. Paul ag campus with perfect English.


Youtuber Eli from Russia grew up speaking tatar in Perm. Not an official language   there. She learned Russian in school and English well enough to go to U of WV for a year and even ran track. After that she taught English in Vietnam. Her mom is upset that she let her Tatar skills lapse. IMO Tatar is  not discriminated against but people gravitate to empire languages due to the benefits.

When Mexico broke free from Spain they kept the language of Spanish empire. Very few people speak an indigenous language there and they are screwed.

I recall the language of the Russian court for hundreds of years was French. If you wanted books in literature, math, science, it was not going to be Russian. German would work also.

Some Ukr you tube guy born in 1971 said his parents were native Ukr speakers but different dialects as they came from different villages. They moved to Kiev and he said he he never heard Ukr spoken there but rather Russian. Ukr language was more rural and RU more urban. He learned English and later moved to US.  He returned some time after the coup and could not help relatives with HW because the Kiev authorities kept changing the Ukr language and still are.

Soon after the 2014 coup Kiev enacted anti RU language laws. In 2019 Kiev created their own sect of the Orthodox church and later persecuted priests in the orthodox church and seized churches. The Romans were never that stupid.

One language for hearth and home and another for commerce and science seems to be very common. see Singapore below. Imagine if they banned Tamil or Malay? Civil war.

Quote
In summary, Singapore's official language has been primarily English since independence, with Malay, Mandarin, and Tamil as official languages reflecting the country’s ethnic diversity.

According to some Turk German born prof who taught in Lvov, things did not start getting crazy until 2005.

There was a big patch of dirt that Lenin drew lines around and named it Ukraine SRI around 1922. After the coup one Kiev faction decided that meant they should  force all others out or kill them.  Hard to believe such insanity.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline patentlymn

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Re: countries with multiple languges etc.
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2024, 07:51:44 PM »
In short Ottomans ruled through methods allowing limited self rule. Also, admin Turkish language was different from normal Turkish.

https://youtu.be/gFPupeayFn8
Why Ottomans couldn't spread Turkish language?
The Ottoman Empire, spanning over six centuries and reaching across three continents, commanded an immense territory rich in diversity in religion, culture, ethnicity, and language. Despite Turkish being the ruling class's language, the Ottoman Turkish language didn’t become the dominant or sole language across its vast territory. This video examines why the Ottomans didn’t succeed in spreading Turkish as a unifying language and the opportunities and limitations they encountered.

update:
My point is not that Turks were nice. They committed lots of genocides as I recall, maybe around 1900. Turks and Romans were not stupid. Kiev could have easily ruled over disparate populations in the former Ukr SSR which became Ukraine. Instead they went crazy over languages and religion, This is the opposite of what the Romans and Ottomans would have done. IMO Kiev was trying to restore an imaginary Ukraine of yesteryear that never existed. Every time I think Kiev cannot be that crazy I determine they are that crazy.

There was some author who was born, lived in, and died in Kiev. They tore down his statues because he wrote in Russian and maybe said he preferred to write in that language.



« Last Edit: November 22, 2024, 09:04:43 AM by patentlymn »
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline patentlymn

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Re: countries with multiple languges etc.
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2024, 08:18:14 PM »
A little OT but a video clip on the history of languages in Italy and Germany
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/F_xykc1Ripg?feature=share
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown