Topic: Drones over the U.S.

[Libertas]

The twisted legal advisors working for The Regime will always be able to come up with a plausible sounding rationale to back up any act legal or illegal, so don't worry yourself over inconsequential things...now is the time to think like a revolutionary not a citizen.

[Glock32]

But Booooosh!!  Liberals are so damn pathetic. They give this a total pass because it's their guy in charge now.

[Libertas]

Maybe that's another good T-shirt idea - "If Bush would have done half the crap Obama is getting away with he'd have been impeached, convicted and imprisoned already!"

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

 

[pisskop]

16 page memo

-Some words that stick out:-

Interest in forestalling the threat of violence.  [So they admit violence against Americans is inevitable]

The military may constitutionally use force against a U.S. citizen who is a part of enemy forces.

The United States is currently in a non international armed conflict  [ambiguous and meaning they can strike whereever, whenever, however]

Given this authority, the question becomes whether and what further restrictions may limit its exercise. (page 5)

The U.S. citizenship of a leader of Al Qa'ida or its forces, however, does not grant that person constitutional immunity from attack.

The Due Process Clause would not prohibit alethal operation of the sort contemplated here.


-And the list could go on, but essentially if you are labeled with this ambiguous term, 'enemy' or 'Al Qa'ida or associated', then you can expect to have right s revoked and in steed gain the right not to see your death coming.  And what is this about military having constitutional rights?-

[Libertas]

That first item is driving everything we are seeing, the assault on our rights (the 2A especially) and further dilution of conservative and libertarian influences by flooding the nation with new citizens via amnesty plans, and on and on, this is a full court press to destroy every last vestige of resistance to fascist rule in America.  What besides the noticeable wetting of pants is the response of our so-called representatives?

[Pandora]

Via Gateway Pundit, Rush Limbaugh's riff:

“Does this mean that Nixon coulda taken out Bill Ayers? Does this mean that Richard Nixon could have taken out the New Black Panther Party?”

But this is what's gotten other panties in a wad:

"Seven months before the New York Times report, Abdulrahman Anwar al-Awlaki, a 16-year-old American citizen from Denver, was killed in a drone strike in Yemen. Abdulrahman Al-Aulaqi was the son of terrorist Anwar al-Aulaqi. He did not have a trial. He was never waterboarded.  He was sixteen.

Barack Obama dropped a bomb on his head."

*sigh*

I'm having a hard time working up any outrage about al-Awlaki's son, American citizen notwithstanding, and I wouldn't give a rat's about any of this if it wasn't for what Rush Limbaugh pointed out about the potential for killing American citizens not in Yemen, but here in-country, and without due process, based on whatever Obongo The Decider decides.

[IronDioPriest]

...I'm having a hard time working up any outrage about al-Awlaki's son, American citizen notwithstanding...

I'm right there with ya, but we have to understand that's exactly what they're counting on...

"First they came for______..."

[Libertas]

Libiots as usual have a hard time thinking like normal people, what with their heads up their butts 24/7, but you are correct it should be OBVIOUS to ANYBODY that there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between targeting American scum overseas threatening us with terrorism and Americans at home exercising their rights of free asssembly and freedom of speech, and YES their right to bear arms!

(Sorry for the screaming, caps for any libiots who stumble in here!)

Rush's Nixon quips are funny, but seriously, just think of all the domestic enmemies we could have ridden ourselves of long ago!  

[Pandora]

...I'm having a hard time working up any outrage about al-Awlaki's son, American citizen notwithstanding...

I'm right there with ya, but we have to understand that's exactly what they're counting on...

"First they came for______..."

I've considered that, IDP, as I wrote, and you may be right.  I think the crux of it for me is al-Awlaki may have been "a citizen" but he wasn't an American, and neither was his son, who was an anchor-baby.  Which points to the fact that we need to get this citizenship issue ironed out and right damn now.

These drone-strikes need closer scrutiny, probably by the judiciary, in terms of due process and warrants, however.  If for no other reason than to revoke citizenship of the al-Awlaki types ... before droning his ass and whoever's with him.

I'm remembering John Walker Lindh, which is a more cut-and-dried issue of citizenship, and he sits today in prison in the US.  Had he not been caught by accident, should he have been allowed to continue to wage war against the US until he could be arrested and read Miranda?  Then, there's Adam Gadahn, convicted in absentia of treason; what is to be done about him?

I am fully aware of the risks here of normal American citizens designated as terrorists and targeted for remote termination and it doesn't even come down to "it depends on who is in office" because none of them can be trusted with this sort of unfettered power.  Meh, I just talked myself around in a circle.

[IronDioPriest]

It seems to me that in the graying of this issue with the justifications we've already acknowledged, the concept of due process is under attack as much or more than these "citizens".

Sure, they throw their lot in with Islamists who vow Jihad against the Great Satan. Sure, they leave the US, presumably to plot and plan. But now this president is claiming the power to kill them, even in the absence of evidence of a specific crime or act of war. Presumably all one needs to do now is voice a wish to see the American government destroyed in order for this president to invoke that self-proclaimed power.

By eradicating due process in this one "special" circumstance against American citizens in league with al Qaeda, the door is flung open for the day when WE openly wish for the destruction of the American regime, and can be killed without evidence.

I wish for that destruction now. If I could irradiate Washington DC and cleanse this great nation of its scourge and free our citizens from the hell that is about to be unleashed, at least a part of me would do it in a heartbeat. Which means that in the eyes of Barack Hussein Obama and his illegitimate regime, I am a target who is a mere step or two away on their progress chart. They can't kill me yet, because they're still getting people used to the idea of killing al Qaeda Americans without a warrant.

[charlesoakwood]

Isn't it now permissible to drone "activists" within the borders of the Continental US?

[Glock32]

There can be no doubt that drone strikes are on a fast track from tools of military operations on foreign battlefields to tools of domestic "homeland security". I don't think we even need to bother looking for specific evidence in support of that assertion, because it's axiomatic that government power only ever grows in scope and scale. Like a malignant tumor, it grows until its host can no longer feed it, then it dies a sudden death.

Part of the problem, the dilemma about whether to deal with these people in the context of military operations or law enforcement, comes from the fact that they operate in what are basically lawless badlands. There is no local authority to speak of, so it's not like you would deal with a criminal who had gone to a civilized country. With other civilized countries you can issue an internationally recognized arrest warrant and request that the foreign government apprehend them in accordance with their own local procedures. Places like Afghanistan aren't even countries, so that's completely out the window. But we can't allow them to dictate our ability to deal with them just because they stubbornly refuse to conform to convenient definitions. So they're not exactly criminals and not exactly an enemy army, but some blurred hybrid of the two. I'm of the opinion that any area so lawless has in essence no claim to sovereignty, and is therefore implicitly inviting outside powers to come and do what the locals obviously can't.

None of that applies to the apprehension and adjudication of people here on US soil, and this flirtation with the domestic use of armed drones needs to be put down right damn now.

[Libertas]

Drones over the US on US citizens is IMO a clear provocation and a likely bending if not the beginning of breaking down posse comitatus, which has taken a beating, especially since 2006 under Bush, that Obama is trying to push for more than even the eeeevil Bush got seems to be lost on the great unwashed comprising libiotland.

Any drones over me get shot down...as far as I know they're a big ugly goose, tag me for hunting out of season if you want, but that fugly bastard is going down!

[Alphabet Soup]

This is so pointless.....

Why don't they just march into lindh's cell and shoot him in the head? If it's all about killing "the bad guy" and civil rights are an inconvenient obstacle to be ignored, why not off all the bad guys at gitmo? If it is just a matter of lazy expedience why don't they just nuke Afghanistan. And Pakistan while they're at it? That would kill a bunch of bad guys. Very efficiently.

Of course one of two very real considerations is whether or not they can employ common sense when building their kill list (doubt it). And (as alluded to) a very real fear is which political enemies does the HNIC have in mind? Is it only the HNIC that reserves the right to arbitrarily murder American citizens with impunity or can he delegate the privilege? If he happens to be out bath-housing one afternoon can nappy janet sit in and ad-lib for him? Say he's had a rough night of anal sex and chooming and valerie decides that Rand Paul has gotten a little uppity lately, would it OK for her to send a drone to his house?

So many questions.

[Libertas]

Yes, many questions but you know the answers as well as I.  Knowing how know libiots and bureaucrats operate, it's all about everybody passing everyone else enough get-out-of-jail-free cards as possible and remembering the golden words of Congressional testimony - "I don't recall", "I have no recollection of that", "I was not privy to that information", "It was my understanding that this was authorized", "I will have to check on that and get back to you". . .

Oh, and best of all the propaganda wing of the Democrat-Media Complex is there to divert, distract, confound and threaten any opposition . . .

[charlesoakwood]

Memo documenting the CIA’s policy on the targeted killing of American citizens.
 
Charlottesville, Virginia: one of the first cities to ban drones.

[charlesoakwood]

Charlottesville's  drone ban has come a little late to the dance.  Surely they are not planning to shoot us whether it is legal by the attorney general or not.  It's a reasonable act to have them stationed to protect the borders  but looking at their placement and the cities requesting them begs the question, what are they for?
 
 Here is the map.
 Here is the application list.

Does this mean they can send drones after ANY American any time they please?

Citation: Is There A Drone in Your Neighborhood?

[warpmine]

Charlottesville's  drone ban has come a little late to the dance.  Surely they are not planning to shoot us whether it is legal by the attorney general or not.  It's a reasonable act to have them stationed to protect the borders  but looking at their placement and the cities requesting them begs the question, what are they for?
 
 Here is the map.
 Here is the application list.

Does this mean they can send drones after ANY American any time they please?

Citation: Is There A Drone in Your Neighborhood?

This is as a reason as the Founders installed for the citizens, the militia, to have an equal arsenal as the government because they knew as well as anyone the dangers of over zealous and encroachment by central government authorities. We cannot allow the use of drones for even as simple purpose as surveillance trolling for trouble. The thin line as we all have come to know especially from this illegal regime was obliterated.

Franklin had it right when he stated that those that would sacrifice Liberty for security deserve neither. 

[Libertas]

Crop Cam in Ottertail County, m-kay. 

But I know Minneapolis has those sound detectors to triangulate shots, and video is already everywhere, now with NDAA etc SkyNet is growing rapidly...we are rushing toward the wrong direction way too fast.

[Alphabet Soup]

Interestingly enough, the dingbat mayor recently gave a presentation to the Seattlunatics unveiling his grand plan to have Drones Over Seattle....(to their credit) the lunatics said, "No thanks".

What's a good statist to do?!!