Topic: Leaving America

[Weisshaupt]

So I spent this morning doing cursory research on leaving the US. My occupation is on all of the "needed skills" lists,  even in New Zealand ( where, while Socialist, your max tax rate is 33%, no SS, no Medicare, no state taxes.) I tried to look at emigration numbers  to see where people are going - but it turns out got Stats are just not available.  However, in 2008 Zogby did a poll that indicated 10% of the Population was considering leaving and that millions actually were - to seek better economic opportunities. John Galt is a powerful force.

However, I also found this article talking about what you really need to expect.

We've had half a dozen acquaintances over the past few years move to Australia and New Zealand. They quit their job, sold out, and moved their entire family to a place they'd never been. Thinking to make the best of it, they dug in as had we.

When I say “dug in”, it took us two full years to make our 10-acre farmlet self-sufficient. It was truly a beautiful property with two wells, two ponds, fully fenced acreage, steers, good neighbors, stored food, a productive garden and everything was debt-free. However, those are just “things” and it can't replace family, your heritage and your ties.

Within two years, three tops, those people who had moved to Oceana packed it in and came home to America. Those were expensive lessons - all in a fit to “escape”.

Just wish I had 10 Acres.  Well, gonna have to do something with the equity in the City house... this woman , is married to Stan Deyo who does look like a bit of a nut - but my kind of Nut. They are convinced the end is coming, America will be gone, but live here in Colorado anyway, because of what they consider a message from God, Dream Vision, whatever.  They are actually not too far from where we put our stakes in the ground ..

What is hoped by this author is for those thinking of moving abroad that you consider all ramifications rationally and carefully. Do not romanticize such a move. There is nothing romantic about it. It is difficult and expensive and one that will leave wounds in your heart you can't even imagine. Then pray about it. If the Lord shows you unquestionably to leave, then do so and He will take care of you.

And really that is what I keep coming back to.  The day we found the Teotwaki place it just seemed clear to us that "This was it" - we both had a strong emotional reaction to it, an assured confidence, that we took as our sign we were in the right place. I just gotta have faith God put me where he wanted me.  I guess we are turning to that in some way or another. I just pray that God will let me find peace and happiness again someday- my anger is just eating me up.

[LadyVirginia]

And really that is what I keep coming back to.  The day we found the Teotwaki place it just seemed clear to us that "This was it" - we both had a strong emotional reaction to it, an assured confidence, that we took as our sign we were in the right place. I just gotta have faith God put me where he wanted me.  I guess we are turning to that in some way or another. I just pray that God will let me find peace and happiness again someday- my anger is just eating me up.

 I feel that way about the home we live in now.  To this day people don't understand why we live here.  We do live in a suburban area but it's on a private road no one notices, we have over an acre that backs up to "open space" owned by the state (gotta love that!), we're near a river, we have a well and septic (both of which mystifies many).  We could have bought bigger, closer to other neightbors but when we came to this house I said this is the one. We were looking for a bigger house and got one no bigger than the one we left.  A couple of years ago my husband had a chance to take a job in another state and when I went to look at houses I had a negative physical reaction to what I was seeing. They were all nice houses but I felt sick to my stomach and got a migraine.  I couldn't get passed the thought we weren't supposed to leave our house.  It's not that I don't want to move--I've moved plenty over the years.  It's weird I know but on the days when something goes wrong and I wonder why I'm not living somewhere else I keep coming back to God wants us here. 

[AmericanPatriot]

Weisshaupt, I'm not going anywhere and I don't think the grass is greener other places.
AU and NZ are coming under Chinese influence.

I get some Agora newsletters touting Argentina.

I don't think there are any safe havens for when the SHTF.

I'm 62 and have 3 acres. Have been trying to gather as much info on self-sufficiency as I can.
There are drawbacks, specifically, easy water. Well is 205' feet deep

But here is where I take my stand.

[Glock32]

So I spent this morning doing cursory research on leaving the US. My occupation is on all of the "needed skills" lists,  even in New Zealand ( where, while Socialist, your max tax rate is 33%, no SS, no Medicare, no state taxes.)

My thoughts on that are, if I'm going to have to live somewhere with socialistic policies then it might as well be somewhere that isn't a barnyard of humanity like the USA. The USA is committing suicide in multiple ways, there's the economic suicide of socialism, but even worse is the cultural and demographic suicide of importing savages en masse.

[Weisshaupt]

Weisshaupt, I'm not going anywhere and I don't think the grass is greener other places.
AU and NZ are coming under Chinese influence.

I get some Agora newsletters touting Argentina.

I don't think there are any safe havens for when the SHTF.

I'm 62 and have 3 acres. Have been trying to gather as much info on self-sufficiency as I can.
There are drawbacks, specifically, easy water. Well is 205' feet deep

But here is where I take my stand.

Yeah, it was more of a due diligence exercise to look at all of the options.  This is certainly not my country anymore. Real American's aren't loyal to their government, nor even their country, but to the principles upon which it was founded. And those aren't in evidence anywhere anymore.  We will probably see a world war.  A dollar collapse will affect everyone to some degree, and Americans will be hated for it. They have already talked about using the IRS as a defacto exit visa authority- so I expect they will clamp down on those pesky rich trying to get out.. Its getting locked in like a Jew in Germany that I fear most from deciding to stay. Of course, I could be in NZ when China announces no one gets in or out. No where is "safe"

Argentina comes up a lot- they went through their collapse already, so they have more of a mindset for it (oh, this again!) and therefore are probably better prepared than most places, but crime is still high. Its probably fine if you can buy the 1000 acre farm and a small army to protect it. It does seem to be the preferred spot for the "rich" - I think Gerald Celente has picked it for his TEOTWAKI spot.

I suspect I too will be making my stand here.   2.5 Acres, 250' well :>)

 

[Weisshaupt]

My thoughts on that are, if I'm going to have to live somewhere with socialistic policies then it might as well be somewhere that isn't a barnyard of humanity like the USA. The USA is committing suicide in multiple ways, there's the economic suicide of socialism, but even worse is the cultural and demographic suicide of importing savages en masse.

So are you going else where then? Have you already?
I don't doubt that the US is going to have more issues than a lot of places come SHTF, which I think is really most people's point when they say they are going. No place is safe, but some places will be safer than others.

[OLJingoist]

I had the opportunity to emigrate to Australia in the late sixties. But I was an AMERICAN.
Now I see my country being laid to waste by these evil controlling people, and I wonder why I didn't go. Hindsight is 20/20.
And being red, white and blue to the bone I look back over my ancestry and realize they made the same choice came here and built America.
Who am I to avoid family honor.

[IronDioPriest]

Running away has its appeal - especially when thinking about the well being and safety of my children. But standing and fighting is the right thing to do. The sacrifice of our forebears demands no less, in my opinion.

If there was another place to go that could be a "new" America, then perhaps. But there's not, and there never will be. It's here or nowhere. So I'll not run away. I'll fight with whatever tools I have, and whatever the situation demands. If my money, my activism, and my votes aren't enough, then I s'pose the situational demands will escalate. But I won't run. I won't accept the death of American ideals and the American way of life until all effort has been made to save them, and those efforts fail utterly. It's not just about me and my family, it's about a nation I love, and that love transcends the vile Leftists whose filth and stench pollute her.

Running or hiding signifies a willingness to turn this nation we love over into their evil hands and open surrender to Leftism in the freest nation the world has ever known. I am not willing.

[Pandora]

We've lived where we are for twenty years.  That's longer than I've lived anywhere else my entire life, several "elses" as a matter of fact.  Gunsmith too.  We're heavily wooded, semi-rural, with a well and septic (which used to mystify us, but no longer -- we'd rather not have "city" water) on almost two acres.  No, there's not a lot of land, but we're situated well, have made some preparations, and we're not going anywhere.

That feeling of being displaced hit me hard when we moved from NJ to California -- and thank God we got the heck out of there -- so, I fully understand people emigrating elsewhere and being unhappy.  At least Gunsmith had a job, but we had no family and no friends there, and making them was almost impossible.

What isn't well-known is how many Europeans who emigrated here in the two "great waves" did return home, and they had the benefit of living in communities with "their own kind" no less.  I had family who emigrated from Italy, lived in Canada for almost thirty years, and who packed up and "went home".

Are we, am I, meant to be here?  I don't know; I don't know anything.  I keep asking, but either He's not talking, or I'm not listening the way I'm supposed to.

And in case y'all are not aware, this same sort of searching for Answers is occurring in various places on the web, more in the past few days than I've seen yet, so I figure it's happening with folks who are not 'connected' as well.  Any who believe in God, or a Greater Power, are looking for answers there and I say it's a good thing.

[OLJingoist]

Running away has its appeal - especially when thinking about the well being and safety of my children. But standing and fighting is the right thing to do. The sacrifice of our forebears demands no less, in my opinion.

If there was another place to go that could be a "new" America, then perhaps. But there's not, and there never will be. It's here or nowhere. So I'll not run away. I'll fight with whatever tools I have, and whatever the situation demands. If my money, my activism, and my votes aren't enough, then I s'pose the situational demands will escalate. But I won't run. I won't accept the death of American ideals and the American way of life until all effort has been made to save them, and those efforts fail utterly. It's not just about me and my family, it's about a nation I love, and that love transcends the vile Leftists whose filth and stench pollute her.

Running or hiding signifies a willingness to turn this nation we love over into their evil hands and open surrender to Leftism in the freest nation the world has ever known. I am not willing.

In my circular think on it I came to the very same conclusion. This nation does have a heart and a soul. I will try to protect it with my dying breath.
THE FIGHT WILL NEVER END, the loss of what we have MUST be resisted at all cost.  

[LadyVirginia]

We've lived here for a little more than 15 years- longer than anywhere else.  I've lived in 8 states, in large and small places, affluent and not so much. I've only been to Canada but I've read extensively on other countries and talked to people who've lived and traveled other places.  So many places have their petty, ethnic disputes that living in the countryside in idyllic conditions is a dream.  My great grand father came from France 140 years ago with his family because they were tired of the prussians trying to make them german.  So they came to America so they could be French.     

 

[Glock32]

My thoughts on that are, if I'm going to have to live somewhere with socialistic policies then it might as well be somewhere that isn't a barnyard of humanity like the USA. The USA is committing suicide in multiple ways, there's the economic suicide of socialism, but even worse is the cultural and demographic suicide of importing savages en masse.

So are you going else where then? Have you already?
I don't doubt that the US is going to have more issues than a lot of places come SHTF, which I think is really most people's point when they say they are going. No place is safe, but some places will be safer than others.

No, I have not. And like everyone else, I will probably of necessity have no choice but to stay right here. But what has changed is my whole attitude about it. I no longer have the "I'll be damned if I'm leaving MY country" attitude, but more of a "If I had the means and wherewithal to go to NZ or Aus, I think I would". I'm not even ruling out Canada. Its socialism has been ingrained a lot longer than ours, true, but it's also a huge country with barely more than 1/10th our population. So it has its own appeal.

I guess it just seems that the economic battle is not so important anymore. We have lost that one. Socialism is everywhere. That is a mistake that can be remedied. What can't be remedied is breeding out the people who create a civilization in the first place, and we're pursuing that folly even more than we are socialism.

[Weisshaupt]

But what has changed is my whole attitude about it. I no longer have the "I'll be damned if I'm leaving MY country" attitude, but more of a "If I had the means and wherewithal to go to NZ or Aus, I think I would".

Yeah, its funny, but that changed overnight for me too. This decision made me realize - no, its not MY country. MY country is dead. Yeah, it was on its deathbed a long time. I mourned for it already, and now we heard the death rattle and its over. Our loved one is gone, but we must keep on living, so now we look and are suddenly open to other possibilities. I think most of us will stay - because the hurdles to leaving are significant, but even then we have left in our hearts. The Liberals are so damn sure that once we see their utopia and way of doing things  that we will come around - after all we are just stupid people bitterly clinging to old ways, and they are the future. They don't understand that what we loved were the founding principles,  not the government that we created to safeguard them. Our love was for the Declaration, and the Constitution and government but a tool and a necessary evil. They have no clue as to the hatred and resentment they have sown.  This will play out as its played out before. We will be ready. They will not be. The useful idiots are always first under the boot, and if possible I will volunteer to place them under it.

[charlesoakwood]

What's better about Nz or Oz or Canada?  Nothing to not much. 
It's a jump from the pan into the fire.  And, uhm, they may determine
you are a carrier of virulent revolutionary attitudes not comparable with
their country.

[Weisshaupt]

What's better about Nz or Oz or Canada?  Nothing to not much.  

Homogeneous Populations?  As Glock said they aren't Barnyards of Humanity.
(Thats RACCCISTTT! )

But these things proceed apace everywhere. The Maori are demanding more and more in social benefits, playing the Native card there.
I suspect that the Aborigines ( Or the White liberals who represent them)  are doing much the same in Australia. Canada if course is getting the Sharia treatment like most Western-European style  places

The Left divides people. Tells one group they deserve something from another. Divide and conquer. Cheaters develop a herd of suckers, and then help them suck the lifeblood from the productive, gaining power and wealth along the way. Its Always the Pigs in Animal Farm, and the damn sheep go for it each and every time.  

-

[charlesoakwood]

Then, I take that we agree.

[Weisshaupt]

Then, I take that we agree.

More or less.  2.5% of the population will make less trouble than 13% -- same process, different magnitudes.

[charlesoakwood]

Homogeneity in the USA is being an American for America.
 
I don't perceive our problems coming from or persisting because
of any minority class in America.  Our problems are from intellectual
ideologues that infest too many (colleges) minds with their ideology.

The minorities who persist in being a problem instead of becoming productive Americans are the neutrophils of this leftist body.  In a sane civil society they will be washed away and their kinsmen will become productive Americans.

Nz won't even allow our nuclear vessels to dock.
Just as the Dodo was protected by its remoteness so is Oz and Nz.

 

[Weisshaupt]

Homogeneity in the USA is being an American for America.

Only if the people in the populace are "American"  in something other than just the geographic sense.
We all not all "Americans" in America, because the Left has converted some to being La Raza Hispanics, Black Panther Blacks, Gay Rights Activists, Womyn etc.  Being a minority isn't a problem. Being a non-American barbarian is. Sure, their minds were poisoned, and political correctness has shielded them from the censure they would normally get because of their behavior. Its like giving drug dealers a hall pass for the high school. 

WE no longer have a Sane society. A sane society would have stamped out this vermin the first time they reared their ugly heads.
Canada, NZ and OZ all have immigration laws AND enforce them. They are still sane enough to fight such non-sense, because their cultures are back burner objects to the left at the moment. European Socialists all, and not the bitter hater culture of "Americans" - they just aren't under attack as much because they are already considered conquered.

[AlanS]

I've lived at this exact location for over 20 yrs. It's all mine paid for clear (except annual rent [property taxes]) and has been paid in full with my sweat equity. I feel I was meant to be here since basically I wasn't born and raised in this location, but did end up here after traveling almost the entire nation. There is no where else I would want to live, no country as great, and no people as spirited as right here. I'll fight to keep my family safe and to keep all that I have earned.