Author Topic: What To Do Next: Location  (Read 22982 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Alphabet Soup

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5610
  • Hier standt ich. Ich kann nicht anders
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #120 on: January 13, 2013, 01:14:09 PM »
Submitted for your contemplation:

Quote
Watauga County ‘mountain man’ fighting to keep his nature camp open

 BOONE A road that peels off the Blue Ridge Parkway curves around mountain slopes until, at a keep-out sign, it turns to gravel and plunges downhill through the forest into a world nothing like yours and mine.

The buildings scattered in a clearing at the road’s end look like they might have been raised by pioneers. Massive, dove-tailed logs cantilever under wood-shingled barns and workshops. A whimsical treehouse built like a boat floats 30 feet off the ground.

No structures at Turtle Island Preserve, a 1,000-acre outdoor education center, came from an architect’s drawing board and few of their parts from Lowe’s. That’s become a problem for its nationally known founder, Eustace Conway, who doggedly lives in the old ways and teaches thousands a year how they can, too.

The problem is that, like Conway, his buildings don’t square with modern times. Erected without permits from lumber cut and milled on site, they don’t meet construction codes. Health authorities have cited violations. Watauga County has ordered Turtle Island to stop accepting visitors.

“Basically, they shut us down,” Conway said this week.

Lawyers and engineers are working on his behalf, searching for a solution. Nearly 10,000 people have signed petitions asking the N.C. Building Code Council to change codes or exempt Turtle Island. Conway will appear before the council Monday in Raleigh.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/12/07/3713079/watauga-county-mountain-man-fighting.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

My curiosity stoked, I did a websearch for a live aerial view of his property. What I saw was pretty typical for deep-rural - makeshift, disorganized, and unkempt. It's possible that if he were my next-door neighbor I might be up in arms by his antics as well. But mostly what I saw was some guy off "doing his own thing". I also saw the typical heavy hand of government asserting itself even in the middle of nowhere (literally).

What this is telling me is that my impressions that I will invariably become a total outlaw (or succumb to the machine) and need as much as humanly possible to fly under the radar.

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 67914
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #121 on: January 13, 2013, 01:25:38 PM »
 ::cussing::  tyrants!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 19533
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #122 on: January 13, 2013, 01:33:19 PM »
Saw that too, 'Soup.  And you do not want to get me started on "building codes".
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Weisshaupt

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5739
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #123 on: January 13, 2013, 01:33:26 PM »
Quote
As I sad in another thread...

A Freudian slip perhaps? Or was it just me?


Perhaps. But I am also a really bad typist, and even worse proofreader.

There was an interesting discussion in the comments of that CNS article (betwixt & between the trollish ones) about the practicality, the propriety, and the purpose of such a community. The trolls were there to fling poo, insulting anyone who doesn't think that our present circumstances in Øbomination ain't just the neatest thing. One of them tosses the red herring of "What good did the pubbies ever do?" as a deflection to the 900 pound gorilla which is, "If Øbomination is such a sweet deal, why are so many trying so hard to escape it?"

For the liberal its never enough for them to say " Good luck with that"  - You have to want to be part of their tribe, and be derided if you don't. Everyone must want tobe one of the "cool kids" or the Cool Kids' status is threatened.

As for The Citadel project itself, I'm finding that I am perhaps insufficiently radical right enough to qualify for inclusion. Maybe it is just blowback from all the foolishness that has been shoved at us but on many sites I find my opinions of caution and moderation greeted with contempt and derision. I don't really GAS and I'm not inclined to back down or panic-react because someone doesn't agree with me, but I do find the proposition of being out of touch with both the left and the right a bit unsettling.

I am pretty sure the time for moderation is over. They other side has made it clear that absolute tyranny is their goal, and they are not interested in anything but 100% capitulation - and that is probably the basis of any push back you are getting. . Forming a walled community with an in house militia is pretty drastic, but so is the idea of minting Trillion Dollar coins, that one is being discussed seriously, means the other must follow.   We have entered a time where the old rules no longer apply, and not one is certain what the new rules will be. Formation of something like this community is  the definition of caution.  

And maybe I'm reading more into their mission statement than really exists. It sounds to me like right-wingers playing at libertarianism with pure democracy as their model for governance. And jefferson as their inspiration? No thanks.

Jefferson said a lot that was right, but like all men he was flawed. I wouldn't want to live under any system defined by a single founder. We needed that mix. Madison is probably as close as we come to a synthesis. However, I don't think  Jefferson would have supported a pure Democracy, even if it had been practical in his time. Jefferson was often times impractical and far too idealistic - but it was probably just that quality that allowed him to give the best voice to the principles we hold dear. But it was also that quality that made him think the French Revolution was a great idea, and to believe  a "Natural Aristocracy" of merit, would arise in a Democratic Republic.   I have no idea what philosophy will rule at Citadel in the end. The point is, I would rather live in a pure Jeffersonian system and under Obama and what we have now.  You can only choose from the choices before you.  I am not headed to Citadel myself, but more power to them.


Offline Alphabet Soup

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5610
  • Hier standt ich. Ich kann nicht anders
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #124 on: January 13, 2013, 02:37:43 PM »
Saw that too, 'Soup.  And you do not want to get me started on "building codes".

They are jacking this guy up because (among other perceived offenses) much of his lumber is self cut and milled and consequently not "graded" or "certified". Are you sh!tting me?! I worked as a laborer building two different log homes (very upscale/high tech) in which we used many of the timbers from the property itself. I guess we must have just lucked out.

There's a lot about this guy and his outfit that turns me off. His operation looks like something out of mammy yokum and I prefer something a bit more ship-shape, but the pernicious persistence of bureaucrats on asserting themselves where they don't belong is my primary focus here. I'm surprised that the bastards didn't invoke ADA rules about ensuring that the treehouse was wheelchair accessible.

You know that these (insert Godwin's Law invocation here) will do the same (if not worse) with The Citadel project and anywhere else that people go to try to escape them.


Offline trapeze

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6367
  • Hippies smell bad. Go away, hippie.
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #125 on: January 13, 2013, 04:18:34 PM »
Predicting the future is no easy thing.

I will be curious to see how the citadel thing works out. I'm personally pulling for them but I am also skeptical.

In my mind, it isn't big enough.

And I would like to know more about the means of governance. The article doesn't really spell that out. MYOB will only take you so far.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Weisshaupt

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5739
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #126 on: January 13, 2013, 05:52:20 PM »
Quote
Wonder if “Unwelcoming” Means Boxcars and Relocation Camps?
Posted by Harvey at 3:00 pm
[High Praise! to I'm a Man! I'm 41!]

Background:

The Free State Project is an effort to recruit 20,000 liberty-loving people to move to New Hampshire. We are looking for neighborly, productive, tolerant folks from all walks of life, of all ages, creeds, and colors who agree to the political philosophy expressed in our Statement of Intent, that government exists at most to protect people’s rights, and should neither provide for people nor punish them for activities that interfere with no one else.

Their theory is that 20,000 politically active people would be enough to leverage control of the state government, whereupon they could get to work repealing liberty-crushing state laws as well as opting out of participating in many federal programs that tie onerous strings to their money.

One New Hampshire Democrat’s reaction to this “threat”:

“In the opinion of this Democrat, Free Staters are the single biggest threat the state is facing today. There is, legally, nothing we can do to prevent them from moving here to take over the state, which is their openly stated goal. In this country you can move anywhere you choose and they have that same right. What we can do is to make the environment here so unwelcoming that some will choose not to come, and some may actually leave.”

More here: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2013/01/06/new-hampshire-representative-says-free-state-libertarians-not-welcome/
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 07:51:00 PM by Weisshaupt »

Offline John Florida

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10059
  • IT'S MY FONT AND I'LL USE IT IF I WANT TO!!
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #127 on: January 13, 2013, 07:41:39 PM »
 Guys not to be a jerk but I've seen this guy on some reality show and it showed how some of those building are put together and how he repairs them. I would not walk in those buildings for any reason.

   The guy has a great thing going as fart as living off the grid and all that but reusing bent nails isn't the best thing in the world. Undersizing nails and lumber isn't all the good an idea.

   The man sells rough sawn lumber and fire wood to make a living. But man the buildings are a menace.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline Alphabet Soup

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5610
  • Hier standt ich. Ich kann nicht anders
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #128 on: January 13, 2013, 09:34:40 PM »
Guys not to be a jerk but I've seen this guy on some reality show and it showed how some of those building are put together and how he repairs them. I would not walk in those buildings for any reason.

   The guy has a great thing going as fart as living off the grid and all that but reusing bent nails isn't the best thing in the world. Undersizing nails and lumber isn't all the good an idea.

   The man sells rough sawn lumber and fire wood to make a living. But man the buildings are a menace.

Nor would I. But if I were a building inspector I'd be inclined to work with this guy to try to help him get his act together before I pulled the azzhole card like they've done in this case.

Offline IronDioPriest

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10856
  • I refuse to accept my civil servants as my rulers
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #129 on: January 13, 2013, 10:04:22 PM »
I'm of the opinion that a guy living a rustic life in the woods and selling a rustic experience to customers who understand what they are getting into should be no business of any bureaucrat. If liability is an issue, enforce business insurance that is typical, personally wise, and in the public interest.

If he can find a company that will insure him, and people who purchase his rustic experience know what they're getting into, then why should rustic buildings in the wilderness meant for the purpose of rustic living be subject to bureaucratic oversight?

I didn't read the article, so maybe I'm missing something.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Glock32

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 8747
  • Get some!
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #130 on: January 13, 2013, 10:10:43 PM »
Sounds basically like he was left alone for decades until he appeared on the History Channel, and now all of a sudden the local bureaucrats have a keen interest in his operation.
"The Fourth Estate is less honorable than the First Profession."

- Yours Truly

Offline John Florida

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10059
  • IT'S MY FONT AND I'LL USE IT IF I WANT TO!!
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #131 on: January 13, 2013, 11:07:26 PM »
Sounds basically like he was left alone for decades until he appeared on the History Channel, and now all of a sudden the local bureaucrats have a keen interest in his operation.


   Bingo!! He exposed himself! But don't shed a tear for him,he's making a ton selling the I live on nothing story.He was fine till he went public and people signed up for his courses. Most that show up have no clue that the buildings are barely holding up never mind legal(they don't have to be legal to be safe)but they aren't.

  I saw some of his repairs on the show and replacing load carrying beams with boards that are so undersized that I made a comment to my wife to that effect the night it was on.

   As for insurance,no insurance company on earth would cover his liability due to the fact that once again,nothing is safe. You just can't use undersized lumber(grade be damned)and reuse undersized nails to carry the load coming down from the roof.


  He was there by himself the worst that happens is he kills himself but he's allowing the public in and that's all the opening the locals need to put a stop to it.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline Weisshaupt

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5739
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #132 on: January 13, 2013, 11:33:16 PM »
Building Codes? Unsafe construction?  Check out Bishop's Castle.

Bishop's Castle

Long story  with this guy. Just started carrying rocks out of the National forest to build the thing. They tried to shut him down, than he sued, and won. Now he takes rocks out of the Forest by the truck load. I was taken to see him when I was 8 or so. He cursed up a storm, ranted about the govt, and he has only gotten worse since. He had one wall built then.  Now its a sight to see. Maybe I should actually go see it one of thee days

He lets you walk around un-escorted and you can climb as high as you dare.  You can have weddings there. Its a lawsuit waiting to happen, but he has signs everywhere telling you that YOU are responsible for whatever dumb ass thing YOU do.
 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 11:39:32 PM by Weisshaupt »

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 67914
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #133 on: January 14, 2013, 06:45:54 AM »
All this is easily fixed by having people sign waivers, right?  Anything "high risk" like parachuting, bungee jumping etc, they have you sign a waiver, what's the fricken difference in these cases?!  Govt has no right interfering, nobody is dousing people in gasoline and lighting them on fire, no state interest, if people sign a a waiver and ignore posted warnings...well, that's just Darwinism in action, Govt should butt the hell out.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

  • Guest

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 67914
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #135 on: April 23, 2013, 06:28:31 AM »
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Glock32

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 8747
  • Get some!
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #136 on: April 23, 2013, 01:56:08 PM »
If I go anywhere it's not going to be somewhere tropical. Too much feral humanity in warm climates. I'll take the boreal forests of Canada/Alaska. I'd have to get over my revulsion to gutting large game though.
"The Fourth Estate is less honorable than the First Profession."

- Yours Truly

Offline John Florida

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10059
  • IT'S MY FONT AND I'LL USE IT IF I WANT TO!!
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #137 on: April 23, 2013, 07:02:39 PM »
If I go anywhere it's not going to be somewhere tropical. Too much feral humanity in warm climates. I'll take the boreal forests of Canada/Alaska. I'd have to get over my revulsion to gutting large game though.

   Start small and work your way to large game.It's not that big a deal.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline John Florida

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10059
  • IT'S MY FONT AND I'LL USE IT IF I WANT TO!!
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #138 on: April 23, 2013, 07:05:20 PM »
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 67914
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: What To Do Next: Location
« Reply #139 on: April 23, 2013, 08:16:55 PM »
Kiww da wabbit, cwean da wabbit, eat da wabbit.  Mmm...wabbit!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.