Author Topic: My Living Will...  (Read 2195 times)

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Offline AmericanPatriot

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My Living Will...
« on: December 03, 2013, 08:14:29 PM »
Last night, my kids and I were sitting in the living room and I said to them,
 
"I never want to live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine and fluids from a bottle. If that ever happens, just pull the plug."...

 They got up, unplugged the computer and threw out my wine!!
 
The little bastards!

 ::rolllaughing::

Offline ChrstnHsbndFthr

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2013, 08:22:17 PM »
 ::rolllaughing:: ::rolllaughing:: ::rolllaughing:: ::whoohoo:: ::rolllaughing::
Last night, my kids and I were sitting in the living room and I said to them,
 
"I never want to live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine and fluids from a bottle. If that ever happens, just pull the plug."...

 They got up, unplugged the computer and threw out my wine!!
 
The little bastards!

 

::rolllaughing::
“My mission today is to go forth and tell people about why I follow Christ and also what the Bible teaches, and part of that teaching is that women and men are meant to be together.

“However, I would never treat anyone with disrespect just because they are different from me. We are all created by the Almighty and like Him, I love all of humanity. We would all be better off if we loved God and loved each other.”
Phil Robertson an elder in the church of Christ

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2013, 02:16:51 AM »
A few years back, the extended family was gathered around and the conversation turned to end-of-life. My folks were so adamant that they didn't want to live if they were "vegetables" and no matter what kind of conditions I would throw out there, they stuck to their guns.

After a while, I turned to my wife and kids and said with all seriousness in my voice, "Well guys, you hear how grandma and grandpa feel. I just want you to know that if I am ever a vegetable, you leave those damn tubes and plugs in, 'cuz I'm comin' back!"

That received a pretty good hoot, and served to lighten up the conversation a bit from my parents' determination to die at the first hangnail. Thing is, I was pretty serious. I value life as precious, and I've heard too many stories about people who were thought lost, who returned to their bodies.

I used to say, so long as one single loved one gains comfort by coming to the hospital or hospice and holding my hand; talking to me; praying for me; I want to remain alive for that person. When all my loved ones are ready to let me go, I can go then.

I think though, as I get a little older and have seen my grandparents approach their deaths dealing with several horrible years being kept alive by medical technology and pharmaceuticals - and my parents' fearful reaction to that - I am not so anxious to hang around after my mind and/or my body no longer function past a certain point.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 02:21:09 AM by IronDioPriest »
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2013, 07:23:20 AM »
A few years back, the extended family was gathered around and the conversation turned to end-of-life. My folks were so adamant that they didn't want to live if they were "vegetables" and no matter what kind of conditions I would throw out there, they stuck to their guns.

After a while, I turned to my wife and kids and said with all seriousness in my voice, "Well guys, you hear how grandma and grandpa feel. I just want you to know that if I am ever a vegetable, you leave those damn tubes and plugs in, 'cuz I'm comin' back!"

That received a pretty good hoot, and served to lighten up the conversation a bit from my parents' determination to die at the first hangnail. Thing is, I was pretty serious. I value life as precious, and I've heard too many stories about people who were thought lost, who returned to their bodies.

I used to say, so long as one single loved one gains comfort by coming to the hospital or hospice and holding my hand; talking to me; praying for me; I want to remain alive for that person. When all my loved ones are ready to let me go, I can go then.

I think though, as I get a little older and have seen my grandparents approach their deaths dealing with several horrible years being kept alive by medical technology and pharmaceuticals - and my parents' fearful reaction to that - I am not so anxious to hang around after my mind and/or my body no longer function past a certain point.

Neither my wife nor I want any extreme measures taken to extend our lives. Our family knows this and agrees with us, but we hope that when push comes to shove no one is convinced by some sawbones to change their mind.
U.S. Coast Guard veteran, 1964-1968

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Online ToddF

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2013, 08:59:45 AM »
I one is comfortable with where they're going to spend eternity, one doesn't need the several weeks/months of painful/vegetative/whatever in-between time getting there.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2013, 10:02:13 AM »
Neither my wife nor I want any extreme measures taken to extend our lives. Our family knows this and agrees with us, but we hope that when push comes to shove no one is convinced by some sawbones to change their mind.

I feel the same way - largely because of the financial burden. With what is coming I would rather I died sooner and left my kids more to work with.

Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 10:10:54 AM »
Neither my wife nor I want any extreme measures taken to extend our lives. Our family knows this and agrees with us, but we hope that when push comes to shove no one is convinced by some sawbones to change their mind.

I feel the same way - largely because of the financial burden. With what is coming I would rather I died sooner and left my kids more to work with.

Not only because of the kids. I don't want my wife stuck with having to pay thousands, maybe tens of thousands, in medical bills because of me. And with idiotcare, who knows what will happen?
U.S. Coast Guard veteran, 1964-1968

Will Rogers never met Barack Obama. He would not like Obama.

I hate liberals. Liberalism is a disease that causes severe brain damage after it tries to suck knowledge and history out of yours.

Offline John Florida

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2013, 10:57:53 AM »
  I told the wife that I wanted to beashes after death and her answer was "and people in hell want ice water" so I went for my daughter and told her what I wanted and got the same responce more or less which just pisses me off but I'm dead and have no more control.

  As for the plug pulling that's out too but I am tranfering what I do own slowly to my daughter as to keep the government out of it so year after year it goes away.
All men are created equal"
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2013, 11:13:24 AM »
  I told the wife that I wanted to beashes after death and her answer was "and people in hell want ice water" so I went for my daughter and told her what I wanted and got the same responce more or less which just pisses me off but I'm dead and have no more control.

  As for the plug pulling that's out too but I am tranfering what I do own slowly to my daughter as to keep the government out of it so year after year it goes away.

Actually, It probably make more sense to "keep living"  - another reason to not go to the hospital.  If I die at home, who is to say I died?  Dig a hole. Throw me in. Buy me a boat ticket.  Turns out I will be traveling  and seeing the universe  with a friend (is that really a lie? ).   Keep transferring "gifts" with the power of attorney  I gave you to take care of my affairs while I was gone.  Write twenty years of letters from places around the world.  No, I didn't keep the envelopes.
 At some point (say when I am 110 or so) go through the crap to have me declared legally dead.  Oh look. I set up a trust for the house and remaining assets no one wants to pay taxes on. How lucky for my kids and grandkids. 

If the rule of law means nothing to those in charge, there is no reason it should mean anything to us either.

Offline AlanS

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2013, 01:10:16 PM »
I've already informed my wife and kids. I don't care how old I get, when I can't wipe my own butt, put a bullet in me.
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."

Thomas Jefferson

Offline sfetter

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2013, 01:12:35 PM »
I wouldn't worry about it too much.  With healthcare going to be under the control of these communists,  there will be a lot of us who will go before our time due to the lack of care.

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2013, 01:53:12 PM »
I don't know what to say or think about this issue.  Even when I was so sick and in so much pain at one point in my life, I didn't wish to die, but who knows what is to come?  I certainly don't want to contribute to anyone's else's pain -- Gunsmith's -- by either dying "too soon" or not dying soon enough, and the money is definitely an issue.

I had an aunt who fought cancer and dealt with the chemo for ... a decade, I think .... and after she moved into hospice, she told my Mother she just wanted it to be over.  (Devout Catholic, she wasn't going to have anyone hasten it nor do so herself.)  And, shortly afterward, it was.

I think I'll leave it up to and trust in the Lord.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2013, 02:00:13 PM »
  I told the wife that I wanted to beashes after death and her answer was "and people in hell want ice water" so I went for my daughter and told her what I wanted and got the same responce more or less which just pisses me off but I'm dead and have no more control.

  As for the plug pulling that's out too but I am tranfering what I do own slowly to my daughter as to keep the government out of it so year after year it goes away.

If it's what you want, you have a right to it John. Put it in legal writing. Cremation, specific end-of-life instructions. If your wife and daughter will not cede to your wishes, you can see that your wishes are followed nonetheless.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2013, 02:03:31 PM »
Re; cremation, I used to think that anything but a traditional burial was out of the question. Over time I have concluded that for me, having my lips and eyes sewn shut, being stuffed, pickled, and preserved and buried to unnaturally decay over a longer time is a morbid practice.

I can scarcely imagine the advent of such a tradition, but that is neither here nor there. I most definitely wish to be cremated.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Online Pandora

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2013, 02:05:11 PM »
I told CHF my wish as well was to be cremated and he objected on Biblical grounds.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2013, 02:16:14 PM »
I told CHF my wish as well was to be cremated and he objected on Biblical grounds.

Really? I didn't know there were biblical grounds. I'd be interested to know what they are. Might have to change my view again!
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Online Pandora

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2013, 02:17:48 PM »
I told CHF my wish as well was to be cremated and he objected on Biblical grounds.

Really? I didn't know there were biblical grounds. I'd be interested to know what they are. Might have to change my view again!

Well, if he sees this, he'll be more than willing to propound.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline ChrstnHsbndFthr

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2013, 03:14:16 PM »
And propound I shall! LOL

There are essentially three principles that drive Christian doctrine. One, Direct commandment, two, necessary inference, and three, example.

There is no direct commandment that is all inclusive.
The necessary inference is that the bodies must be dealt with, but there is no necessary inference as to how.

But, there is plenty of example.

Before i get into that, let me deal with another issue. God CAN raise whom He will. No fire prevents resurrection, no burial at sea could either. So those lost in a natural fire or those who have lost loved ones that way have nothing to fear. Nor should there be fear for those lost at sea or eaten by wild animals, or whatever other cause of death one can imagine that might destroy the body.

Now, on to examples.  The simple premise is that throughout all of scripture, Godly men buried Godly men. And pagans burned their dead. This was true both in the Old and New Testaments. Fire is reserved for punishment, not for disposing of bodies.  The pattern goes back as far as we have records.  There are over 100 records in scripture of the people of God being buried by other Godly men.

But, even more so, God Himself Buried Moses. He could have chosen any other method, but he chose burial. God punished Korah and his accomplices with fire, but Moses He buried. This does not appear to be just the traditions of men, but the way God Himself handled a beloved servants death.

5 So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord. 6 And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor; but no one knows his grave to this day. 7 Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died. His eyes were not dim nor his natural vigor diminished. 8 And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days. So the days of weeping and mourning for Moses ended.
<Deuteronomy 34:5-7

New King James Version (NKJV)

5 So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord. 6 And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor; but no one knows his grave to this day. 7 Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died. His eyes were not dim nor his natural vigor diminished. >

The next example was Christ Himself, who was buried, and He likewise instituted Baptism for us, a likeness of His burial AND resurection:

<Romans 6:3-5

New King James Version (NKJV)

3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, >

Now for some examples of the regard that burning has:
<Genesis 38:24
And it came to pass, about three months after, that Judah was told, saying, “Tamar your daughter-in-law has played the harlot; furthermore she is with child by harlotry.” So Judah said, “Bring her out and let her be burned!”> Clearly punishment there.

Here also:<Numbers 11:1
Now when the people complained, it displeased the Lord; for the Lord heard it, and His anger was aroused. So the fire of the Lord burned among them, and consumed some in the outskirts of the camp.>

Now this example is also important as it shows the disgrace of being burned and the contempt of those who burned them. The man brought the Lord's anger on all Israel by stealing the devoted things.

Here the Psalmist speaks of punishing evil:

<Psalm 140:9-11

9 “As for the head of those who surround me,
Let the evil of their lips cover them;
10 Let burning coals fall upon them;
Let them be cast into the fire,
Into deep pits, that they rise not up again.
11 Let not a slanderer be established in the earth;
Let evil hunt the violent man to overthrow him.>

“My mission today is to go forth and tell people about why I follow Christ and also what the Bible teaches, and part of that teaching is that women and men are meant to be together.

“However, I would never treat anyone with disrespect just because they are different from me. We are all created by the Almighty and like Him, I love all of humanity. We would all be better off if we loved God and loved each other.”
Phil Robertson an elder in the church of Christ

Offline ChrstnHsbndFthr

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2013, 03:19:18 PM »
<Jeremiah 7:31
And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into My heart.>

I believe this speaks of sacrifices, but the Lord's word paints a picture of revulsion.
“My mission today is to go forth and tell people about why I follow Christ and also what the Bible teaches, and part of that teaching is that women and men are meant to be together.

“However, I would never treat anyone with disrespect just because they are different from me. We are all created by the Almighty and like Him, I love all of humanity. We would all be better off if we loved God and loved each other.”
Phil Robertson an elder in the church of Christ

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: My Living Will...
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2013, 03:25:57 PM »
Hmmm... Thank you for that CHF. New food to chew on. I have to say, your case seems pretty clear. Succinct as well. In other words, one doesn't have to stretch to accept the logic. It's kinda right up front.

Any books or sermons on the subject? I'd be interested in digesting both sides and coming to a decision. Thus far, my preference has been based only on feelings of revulsion at being preserved only to eventually decay.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson