Topic: Occupy Wall Street Morons Photos

[trapeze]

How they compare this to the Tea Party protests is beyond me.

Take note of the very first picture. If the Tea Party had done anything even remotely like this it would be all over the media. As it is we have to rely on the UK press to show it.

[IronDioPriest]

I don't know what pisses me off more - that they would try to compare this to the Tea Party protests, or that they accuse the Tea Party of being THIS when it's clearly not, while trying to portray THIS as something other than the pathetic collection of degenerate human scum that it is.

It all just pisses me off. At some point, a person feels helpless to affect events on behalf of goodness and truth through the usual channels. God help the Left when the righteous come to believe that potential responses to Leftist evil have been narrowed to a fine point.

[Alphabet Soup]

Broken record time. The quintessential argument that the left can muster is "You do it too". Let's take a look at a typical leftist response to anyone on the right mentioning or criticizing (much less the outright mocking that I've delivered):

Oh, you mean like storming government offices to protest the health care bill?

U.S. Capitol Police arrested 10 people this afternoon after the Capitol Hill Tea Party crowd stormed Congressional office buildings.

Sgt. Kimberly Schneider, public information office for the Capitol Police, told TPMDC the arrests happened in the Cannon House building as tea partiers attempted to protest Speaker Nancy Pelosi about health care.

They were charged with unlawful entry (entering a Congressional office and refusing to leave when told to do so) and/or disorderly conduct (yelling in the hallway outside an office) at Room 235 in the Cannon House Office Building.

Room 235 is Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office for district business, not where she conducts her duties as Speaker. That's handled at an office in the Capitol building.

TPMDC happened upon a crowd that formed around two police vans as the protesters were prepared for "transporting," according to one officer there.

Without those official details, protesters in the crowd watching the arrests were furious. They shouted "Let them go!" and one man yelled at the police that "Martin Luther King" was being dishonored and shouted "Letter from Birmingham Jail!"

One woman told officers they were "shameful." Others called the arrested protesters "political prisoners."

"This is America, this is not the Soviet Union," one woman said.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/strange-scene-10-arrested-as-tea-party-watchers-heckle-police.php

Or did you mean like costing taxpayers $14,000?

WASHINGTON - Rep. Michele Bachmann solidified her place in the national spotlight in November when she gathered thousands of Tea Party activists in front of the U.S. Capitol for a "House Call on Washington," to stop the Democrats' health care bill.

Months later, official expense reports show that the boisterous, 10,000-person rally to rein in big government and stop runaway spending cost U.S. taxpayers nearly $14,000.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/90800134.html

A couple of points....

1. I'm not aware of charges weighed against any of these people. As we have all come to recognize, being detained is not the same as being arrested. It is a common police reaction to detain protesters - to the point of "taking them downtown", but they invariably release them without charges - even when there has been some violence and property damage. Why? Because it isn't worth the city's time to prosecute.

2. Follow-on to point one, there was no damage and no violence occurred in the mentioned protest.

3. And this one is my favorite. Mama taught me that two wrongs don't make a right. Either peaceful protest is OK or it is not. You won't see me griping about the OWS morons or advocating that the cops take the nightsticks to them (unless they turn violent in which case Party On Wayne!). The left wants it both ways. They want to stifle right-wingers from voicing their opinions but do so while demanding that they remain free to express theirs. And, in typical dhimmicrat style, they equivocate when they dare to compare peaceful TEA Party protest with the anarchistic commie "Days of Rage" (their term BTW).

So tu quoque rules the day in leftieland as they prove out the premise of Idiocracy every day of their miserable lives.

[rickl]

There are some very interesting signs in those photos.  I've been reading some threads in Ticker Forum (here and here), and a number of people are saying that there is a diverse crowd at the protests.  They're not all Marxists by any stretch.  Here is a comment from the FedUp thread:

Bravo, 1lump. Honestly, girl, I have BEEN where you are. I was blinded to some extent before but I have had the opportunities many of you here have not - to look the 'supposed' enemy in the eye - and - talk to him.

Many of the people who make FedUp what it has become, do not post here in the Forum very much. They quietly 'do.' You guys don't know WHAT I do other than moderate this Forum. I AM what is left of the legitimate Tea Party. There are others. We are quietly toiling away. I still help local communities set up their own Tea Parties. I still give my seminars around the state and I field all kinds of media requests (most of those are forwarded to Karl because I absolutely freeze up in front of a camera).

But I'll share with you the one thing that really had the most profound effect on me. It was when I was invited to the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia (David and Tesla went too, but I was the only one actually participating in the 'Civility in Democracy' event). I got to spend 72 very intense hours trying to have a 'civil dialogue' across all party lines and reach common ground. I posted many of my essays and the video of me in the 'breakout group' surrounded by some very famous people from pretty prestigous places (think me sitting across from someone akin to Paul Krugman) and trying to reach common ground in a civil manner. They didn't get much attention here on the Forum. I met the man behind Ronald Reagan's speeches....a black man, who was one of the most gracious, elegant and well-spoken men I have ever met in my life. I got to meet Ken Burns (and yes, he's uber liberal) but his documentary Prohibition made me want to stand up and SCREAM at the top of my lungs: YES! YES! THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG! I got to debate with some of these people in a very large public forum. And you know what, some of them are misguided - but they're human beings...and they don't like what has happened to this country anymore than we do. Some recognize things others do not. Some don't recognize things they should....but we all agreed on one thing - the corruption must end and the coopting of our democratic republic by monied institutions must be stopped. I had the most uber-leftist-liberal tell me to my face: I misjudged the Tea Party. I support what you're doing...and I never thought I would ever hear myself say that. That little moment was captured on camera and I posted it here. How many of you ever watched it?

These people are NOT the enemy. There are a few who are radical - just like the right has their fanatics and I don't disagree with them any less than I disagree with the uber left. They're BOTH fascist assholes. But trust me, THEY ARE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. The REAL hardcore Marxis/Facist/Socialist dickheads are just on TV. No really. The media is purposefully creating a persona for each party. A fictional bogeyman for each side to hate. They rip away the humanity and create a monster - when in fact - no monster exists. Only a human being. DO YOU NOT REMEMBER HOW THE MEDIA COULD HOME IN ON THE 3 NUTJOBS AT A TEA PARTY EVENT AND PAINT US ALL AS RACISTS? OR GUN FANATICS WHO WANTED TO KILL EVERYONE? Come on, it wasn't that long ago.

Every single paid media personality puts forth this false enemy piece of fiction to fan the flames of hatred between fellow Americans. YOUR FELLOW AMERICANS ARE NOT THE ENEMIES - the enemy is the government and its bedfellow the corporate lobbyists and the institutions that control the quantity of money in our monetary system. The goal is never, ever to let us realize who the real enemy is. They're doomed if we ever reach common ground and discover we've been focusing on the WRONG ENEMY!

This is why I wholeheartedly believe that this OWS movement is under the EXACT SAME ATTACK THAT I SPENT THE PAST 3 YEARS LIVING WITH AND FIGHTING. IT'S THE SAME GODDAMNED PLAYBOOK. Spend time with someone you consider the 'enemy' but stop attacking them for just 10 minutes. Just try to find common ground. Don't purposely provoke them - ask them: what don't you like about our current economic situation?

I guarantee you that you WILL find more common ground than you ever imagined was possible. Some things you'll want to rip their spleen out over, like people who fall for the AGW nonsense, but most likely these people will cite the criminality of the banks, the crony corporatism, the lies about the 'recession' the lies about the government statistics (yeah, really 9% unemployment as IF), the elite in DC who just hang in their 'ivory tower' - the common ground is much more vast than you think.

I am on the ground every day. I am in the middle of a vast national network of Tea Parties. I receive hundreds of e-mails and many, many phone calls every single day. They're all from human beings. They are all hurting. They're all dissillusioned. They're all angry. They come from all walks of life. They're all ages, colors, races...they all call me because something I posted or something I said moved them to call and share something with me.

THIS IS WHY I CAN SAY WITHOUT A DOUBT - ALL THOSE PEOPLE OUT THERE AT THE OWS EVENTS ARE NOT MARXISTS. THEY'RE AMERICANS. Some may be uneducated, but that is where WE can now make a difference. There are so many young people. They were educated in publik skool where they are taught to borrow is to grow the economy. They're now in debt up to their eyeballs, they feel trapped and enslaved and they don't know what they did wrong. They WILL listen to a message that makes sense. Do you want that young mind to be filled with fring Marxist crap or do you want to give them a chance? It's up to us. THEY ARE WILLING TO LISTEN. But it is a small window - the radicals are really trying to take advantage of this - and the political class is in a panic. If we can help mold a cohesive message out of this the establishment doesn't stand a chance.

Last modified: 2011-10-08 00:59:29 by pika-steph

"Pika-Steph" was one of the founders of the Tea Party and is a military mom (her son recently returned from Afghanistan).  As I said on page 6 of the first link, this gives me hope that while OWS was apparently started by Marxists, maybe they're losing control of it. 

[IronDioPriest]

That is an interesting perspective Rickl, but how does it jive with the fact that these protests were initiated by the SEIU, and the anti-capitalist intent of the protests was broadcast weeks before any event ever took place?

Believe me, I want to believe that my fellow Americans are not my enemies - and to an extent I do. I've said many times on these pages that rank-and-file Democrats never bargained for full-on Marxism or a regulatory regime designed to shrink the private sector and grow the public sector. But insofar as rank-and-file Democrats support Leftist politicians, we can't concern ourselves with their intentions, or how well educated they are on the issues. The establishment has us in a box, facing an existential threat to the nation. It is us against them whether we like it or not, and these people at the OWS protests are supporting the enemies of liberty, and attacking the concept of liberty.

As much as I want to hear truth in what he's saying, I fear that the author's plea is academic.

[rickl]

As much as I want to hear truth in what he's she's saying

Look again at the last sentence in my comment.  Yes, it's true that this protest was started by the left, but many of the participants are not leftists.  This thing might be getting out of hand for them.  I think there are probably a lot of libertarians and similar people who have gotten involved, and they want nothing to do with Marxism.

Pika-Steph's comment that I quoted above comes from my second link, where I have not commented so far.  If you look at my comments on the first link, you'll see that I took the position that it is basically a leftist protest.  But after reading her comment, I'm now thinking that the whole thing may be more complex than it appears.

Young people are leaving college up to their eyeballs in student loan debt, with no meaningful job prospects in this economy.  They are thinking, "WTF am I going to do now?"  They're confused and angry, and justifiably so. 

Young people are naturally rebellious against established authority.  Picture college students sitting in a classroom listening to an old fart professor spouting Marxism and regaling them with tales from the old days in the 60s.  You just know that some of them are rolling their eyes, and turning up the volume on their iPods.

What Steph was saying is that this is an opportunity to educate them, and channel their anger in a constructive direction.

[rickl]

I looked at the FedUpUSA site, and here is her open letter to the OWS protesters.

I also saw a couple of videos.  Here is Karl Denninger appearing on the Glenn Beck show in 2008.
FedUpUSA on Glenn Beck Show

Here is Stephanie in a symposium at the National Constitution Center.
http://constitutioncenter.org/ncc_progs_Ethics_and_Political_Philosophy.aspx

That video is almost two hours long.  I've watched the first hour so far.  She's the rather fetching brunette on the far left (heh) who shows up a couple minutes late at the beginning.  Her main appearance starts at around the 38 minute mark.  Also pay attention to the black guy in the upper left of the screen.  He's awesome.

ETA:  I forgot to mention that at one point, Stephanie refers to "the 99%", but this video was from March 2011, long before the OWS protest.

[Alphabet Soup]

I catch your perspective Rickl, and I like the idea of hijacking the movement, but it's gonna fail. It will fail no matter what because it's built on a sh!t foundation. There's nothing "Let's build something better" in any of it. It's designed around the destruction of the machine of our prosperity.

Their 'success' would be everyone's failure.

So, as much as it appeals to various flavors of current angst, trying to make something positive with the OWS foolishness is precisely like polishing a turd. No matter how hard you shine it, it don't get no purtier.

[RickZ]

First there was the TEA Party.  Now there is this, the Teat Party.

[charlesoakwood]

Fox street interview:

What do you want to accomplish?
I want to tear down capitalism.

What do you want to replace it with?
::blankstare:: no answer

   da da dada de dada dada dada

[Predator Don]

There may be a sprinkling of libertarians or a few others joining the protest who are not part of the so called new movement......But the end game is the destruction of what made this country what it is today, so it does not make you my friend.

Frankly, even though this is a group with no foundation, I find this extremely disturbing. A movement, created by unions and a silent endorsement of obama. An administration, speaking of making America the industrial leader again, endorsing the opposite. Another layer has been peeled away, indicating the true intentions of  a regime bent on destruction. So a few "outsiders" joining in, even if they are not considered marxists, does not sway my opinion of the serious nature of this movement, even one so uneven in leadership....or so I think. They are not my friend.....I don't want them to be my enemy but what option are they leaving me.

I don't want to appear niave, but I held to a belief America(n)s would prevail in the end. It would not end up in a "us" vs "them".....But to witness a covert action by unions, bent on destruction of the fabric of this nation.......disturbing. Troubling. No matter how loosly organized they seem.

[charlesoakwood]

The organization is tight and unseen. 
What you are witnessing is the result
of the organization team, cannon fodder
in training.

[Predator Don]

The organization is tight and unseen. 
What you are witnessing is the result
of the organization team, cannon fodder
in training.

Charles...It is my fear. Illusion of disorganization. Training the puppets for other action(s). pavlov's dogs.

[charlesoakwood]

Weasel Zippers

Keeping in mind these protesters have been backed by the
President of the United States and the Democratic party.




A protester carries a picture of Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein on a pole during an “Occupy Wall Street” rally in New York’s Washington Square October 8, 2011. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg accused anti-Wall Street protesters on Friday of trying to destroy jobs in the city, even as he said he was sympathetic to some of their complaints. (REUTERS/Jessica Rinaldi)

[rickl]

LOL.  I just saw a similar photo on page 26 of the Ticker Forum/FedUp thread I linked earlier.  Goldman Sachs was a major Obama contributor, you know.

http://tickerforum.org/akcs-www?singlepost=2742371  (Clicking "Show in context" will take you to the thread.)

[trapeze]

I think that it is useful to remember that this "Occupy Wall Street" thing is, at its root, the product of a community organizer project. That means that the primary goal of the entire thing is agitation and chaos and at that it is succeeding admirably with both the willing and unwitting assistance of the leaders of government at all levels and, as usual, the compliant media.

Remember to consult Alinsky to understand what it is that you are seeing. Perhaps there is a historical example of a society getting together in an orderly and peaceful manner and choosing a Marxist form of government but right off the top of my head there are none that come to mind. Instead, history is rife with example after example of agitators stirring up communities to demand revolution. The people that you see demonstrating, protesting, etc. and demanding revolution are "useful idiots." Joining such a demonstration, regardless of what you believe, regardless of what you are  demonstrating for is aiding the organizers and furthering their goals which makes you, by definition, a "useful idiot," too.

The difference between these assholes and the Tea Party could not be more stark. The "Occupy Wall Street" people are demanding revolution. They want to tear down the existing system and start over. The problem with that, of course, is that no one knows what would happen after the system is destroyed but chances are that it would be something resembling socialism or communism. The Tea Party is extremely Constitutional in nature. They want to work within the system to return the country to something more closely resembling the Founder's vision. They want to work in an orderly and organized manner.

Anyone who is inclined to follow the Tea Party and all that they stand for should stay as far away from this mob as possible. To align yourself with them is to give tacit approval to their goals and that makes you, regardless of your intentions, a "useful idiot."

[rickl]

I think that it is useful to remember that this "Occupy Wall Street" thing is, at its root, the product of a community organizer project.

Yes, I know.  But maybe, just maybe, this thing is slipping out of their control.

Anyone who is inclined to follow the Tea Party and all that they stand for should stay as far away from this mob as possible. To align yourself with them is to give tacit approval to their goals and that makes you, regardless of your intentions, a "useful idiot."

Feel free to go over to TF and argue that point with Pika-Steph.  She is, as I said, one of the founders of the Tea Party, and she seems to believe that this is an enormous opportunity for education.

[trapeze]

I think that it is useful to remember that this "Occupy Wall Street" thing is, at its root, the product of a community organizer project.

Yes, I know.  But maybe, just maybe, this thing is slipping out of their control.

Anyone who is inclined to follow the Tea Party and all that they stand for should stay as far away from this mob as possible. To align yourself with them is to give tacit approval to their goals and that makes you, regardless of your intentions, a "useful idiot."

Feel free to go over to TF and argue that point with Pika-Steph.  She is, as I said, one of the founders of the Tea Party, and she seems to believe that this is an enormous opportunity for education.

I won't argue with her. If she wants to be even vaguely identified with this human (and literal) debris then she is beyond arguing with.

And there is no control. It's pure chaos. As intended.

My points stand.

[Alphabet Soup]

Pika-steph appears to be a bit cross-threaded...

(I mean that in the nicest possible way ;-)

[IronDioPriest]

Hey, if somebody thinks there's an opportunity to peel away useful idiots from the vat of human scum and turn them towards the light, more power to 'em. I mean that, 100%. If one believes it can be done, and believes it is their mission to do it, I would respect them less for not trying.

Personally I don't see it as a valuable use of time just from a effort/rewards ratio perspective. Trap is right. The people attending this thing are not interested in repairing and rebuilding within the system - only in tearing down the system, or ignorantly assisting those who wish to do so - most of them likely having no clue as to what might be forced upon them in the wake of the chaos their actions cause, nor any constructive idea of how to bring about positive change once they've ruined what exists.

At this stage, I'm very much less interested in people's intentions, and far more interested in their actions, and with whom they are allied. We need to start figuring out how to identify allies and enemies. They're in the process of giving us a snapshot, and I see no apparent allies in the frame. If they want to align themselves with the Tea Party, then they need to get the f**k away from the scum that's trying to ruin the country, and attend a Tea Party instead.