Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine

[patentlymn]

I used to be involved with industrial controls. They wanted stability and reliability as their chemical process customers did. 
Intel would sell the newest and greatest ion huge numbers to consumer electronics and dump their industrial customers.

How many F-35s are there compared to cell phones?

Also the F-35 design process started maybe 20 years ago and parts were designed in. Who wants to risk a change.?
The industrial control place used an old TI-555 chip. Ancient. TI changed the process for making them. Nodes in chemical plants might crash one every several months. A supposedly identical chip caused chaos.

My point is that any foreign provided chips for Russian planes and high tech weapons are likely old and few in number.

[patentlymn]

Sanctions cut both ways. Think Finnish govt employees care about Finnish citizens?

https://t.me/myLordBebo/35274
🇫🇮🇷🇺 In Finland, the Zsar outlet village near the Leningrad region is being sold “for pennies”. The closure of the borders led to the bankruptcy (https://t.me/myLordBebo/34240).

Earlier finance minister Purra said: “Finland needs to borrow €10bn next year”

[Libertas]

Most governments if they were honest don't care about citizens, they say otherwise but it is all political gaslighting...they do what is good for them, their cabal, their contributors...

[Libertas]

I find this a bizarre way of demonstrating "restraint"...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russias-response-ukraines-us-backed-bombing-beachgoers-wasnt-what-many-expected

...the war is not yet over, so one action in it cannot be isolated and attributed without scope and context...

In more material news...Russia continues to target those staging points I mentioned earlier...

https://www.rt.com/russia/600087-ukraine-western-planes-attack/

[Libertas]

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/06/endless-escalation-biden-regime-allow-american-private-military/

Don't care how many body bags of these idiots get filled...they get what they deserve if they follow idiots into a quagmire...

I am concerned only in the escalatory aspect none of We the People have a desire to see...

[patentlymn]

This guy is apparently a portfolio investment manager now in China.
Here he talks about the various drones used in Ukr AND elsewhere.

https://youtu.be/ILjckfNzxAE
Ukraine, Israel buying Chinese civilian drones for combat use; shun US military-grade drones.

Ukrainian and IDF forces strongly prefer Chinese drones to US-built drones, in their respective combat operations.  This according to reporting by the Wall Street Journal since February of last year.

US-built drone weapons are less reliable, more easily jammed by Electronic Warfare efforts, and do not fly as far or with payloads as advertised.  China drones are also far less costly.

The Chinese-built drones are commercial grade, and are purchased off-the-shelf by volunteers who then send them to either Ukraine or Israel, where they are repurposed for combat use.  The main producer of these Chinese-built drones, DJI of Shenzhen, strongly opposes the use of their equipment in military applications.

The strong preference of allied countries for Chinese civilian drones over American military drones, and the stark differences in battlefield performance, do lead to very disturbing questions; namely, how much better still are Chinese military-grade drones?  How were the Russians able to overwhelm the GPS signals in the US-made drones?  If the US companies that build our drones admit publicly the enormous challenges they face, what concerns do they share only privately?

Resources and links:
...

[patentlymn]

I do not pay much attention to day by day war stuff in Ukr. Recently Kiev sent 5 ATACMS in the vicinity of Sevastopol. 4 were intercepted. One was hit and disbursed the cluster bomblets over a beach on the holiday weekend. it is not known what the original target was or why use the cluster munitions.

The Russian govt never says much period but said more than usual this time. They are under civilian pressure to retaliate.

Sometimes the Kiev govt says stuff that sets my teeth on edge. I heard one such thing indirectly.

Kiev said the bombing was justified as the killed people were "civilian occupiers." I recall Catherine the Great built the place and Russians have been there since the time of the American Revolution. US Gen Ben Hodges said all Russians in Crimea should be killed or driven out.  I recall the referendum held said 95% wanted to be part of Russia. The number could have been less than that if you want to question the results but not much less as US polls on the matter go way back. I recall in 2013 as US aID poll said 15 % if Crimeans IDed as Ukr. The rest Russian, Crimeans, or Crimean Tatars.

US and Kiev threats to the natives do not help their attitudes toward the US or Kiev.

Some analysts have picked up on a resumption of possible anti US ties with many countries. Too soon to tell on most.

[Libertas]

This guy is apparently a portfolio investment manager now in China.
Here he talks about the various drones used in Ukr AND elsewhere.

https://youtu.be/ILjckfNzxAE
Ukraine, Israel buying Chinese civilian drones for combat use; shun US military-grade drones.

Ukrainian and IDF forces strongly prefer Chinese drones to US-built drones, in their respective combat operations.  This according to reporting by the Wall Street Journal since February of last year.

US-built drone weapons are less reliable, more easily jammed by Electronic Warfare efforts, and do not fly as far or with payloads as advertised.  China drones are also far less costly.

The Chinese-built drones are commercial grade, and are purchased off-the-shelf by volunteers who then send them to either Ukraine or Israel, where they are repurposed for combat use.  The main producer of these Chinese-built drones, DJI of Shenzhen, strongly opposes the use of their equipment in military applications.

The strong preference of allied countries for Chinese civilian drones over American military drones, and the stark differences in battlefield performance, do lead to very disturbing questions; namely, how much better still are Chinese military-grade drones?  How were the Russians able to overwhelm the GPS signals in the US-made drones?  If the US companies that build our drones admit publicly the enormous challenges they face, what concerns do they share only privately?

Resources and links:
...

And, the ChiCom drones, like their civilian-available DJI drones, upload everything they see to PLA servers, which is awesome...

/

[Libertas]

I do not pay much attention to day by day war stuff in Ukr. Recently Kiev sent 5 ATACMS in the vicinity of Sevastopol. 4 were intercepted. One was hit and disbursed the cluster bomblets over a beach on the holiday weekend. it is not known what the original target was or why use the cluster munitions.

The Russian govt never says much period but said more than usual this time. They are under civilian pressure to retaliate.

Sometimes the Kiev govt says stuff that sets my teeth on edge. I heard one such thing indirectly.

Kiev said the bombing was justified as the killed people were "civilian occupiers." I recall Catherine the Great built the place and Russians have been there since the time of the American Revolution. US Gen Ben Hodges said all Russians in Crimea should be killed or driven out.  I recall the referendum held said 95% wanted to be part of Russia. The number could have been less than that if you want to question the results but not much less as US polls on the matter go way back. I recall in 2013 as US aID poll said 15 % if Crimeans IDed as Ukr. The rest Russian, Crimeans, or Crimean Tatars.

US and Kiev threats to the natives do not help their attitudes toward the US or Kiev.

Some analysts have picked up on a resumption of possible anti US ties with many countries. Too soon to tell on most.

Well, then only 5% of others harmed...

I reckon the strikes on infrastructure like power plants aren't killing troops but civilians too...

War, its a blast.

[patentlymn]

In this war thanks to the internet and social media I can pay attention to the words that people say and write about themselves and  others. The Russians say they were striking electrical distribution centers and now electrical generation centers. That seems to be what is happening. I am sure civilians are killed in the process.

The Kiev govt, military, and many civilians call for killing or driving off certain ethnic groups in the belief that because Lenin named the SSR Ukraine that only so called  Ukrainians should live there. This extends to areas where Russians have lived for hundreds of years. To call them "occupiers" is just weird.  I guess you could call Europeans in North America occupiers too but that is also weird.  Calling for expulsion of such Europeans back to Europe would be bizarre.






.

[patentlymn]

In previous years, politicians in countries like Finland and the Baltics did not matter and no one listened to them as their puny countries did not matter. Then came the RU Ukr war. Suddenly the western MSM and govts gave them center stage as they made speeches against RU and took some virtue signalling actions. They became "stunning and brave" as they ran their mouths and "stood up to Putin.". Their women were worse then their men.

Their actions often hurt their citizens more than they hurt Russia. Someone said they did not care about their citizens because they were looking to their next job maybe in some giant NGO.

They were like like Chihuahuas yapping at the Russian bear through a closed gate.Kaja Kallas was one of the most rabid of the Chihuahuas as the PM of Estonia. She was just named EU foreign policy service chief.Adios Estonia.


Update: I recall Kaallas recently proposed breaking up Russia into a number of smaller countries. Good luck with that sweetie.
One problem is that Russians can read this stuff and have for years. They don't have to be paranoid to feel threatened.  STFU please.

[Libertas]

In this war thanks to the internet and social media I can pay attention to the words that people say and write about themselves and  others. The Russians say they were striking electrical distribution centers and now electrical generation centers. That seems to be what is happening. I am sure civilians are killed in the process.

The Kiev govt, military, and many civilians call for killing or driving off certain ethnic groups in the belief that because Lenin named the SSR Ukraine that only so called  Ukrainians should live there. This extends to areas where Russians have lived for hundreds of years. To call them "occupiers" is just weird.  I guess you could call Europeans in North America occupiers too but that is also weird.  Calling for expulsion of such Europeans back to Europe would be bizarre.






.

Then why is Putin et al always repeating that Russocentric view of history to cement their belief in their status as preeminent Slavic hegmon?  Seem a bit touchy about it, eh?  It's like they are denying their Viking ancestors...

[Libertas]

In previous years, politicians in countries like Finland and the Baltics did not matter and no one listened to them as their puny countries did not matter. Then came the RU Ukr war. Suddenly the western MSM and govts gave them center stage as they made speeches against RU and took some virtue signalling actions. They became "stunning and brave" as they ran their mouths and "stood up to Putin.". Their women were worse then their men.

Their actions often hurt their citizens more than they hurt Russia. Someone said they did not care about their citizens because they were looking to their next job maybe in some giant NGO.

They were like like Chihuahuas yapping at the Russian bear through a closed gate.Kaja Kallas was one of the most rabid of the Chihuahuas as the PM of Estonia. She was just named EU foreign policy service chief.Adios Estonia.


Update: I recall Kaallas recently proposed breaking up Russia into a number of smaller countries. Good luck with that sweetie.
One problem is that Russians can read this stuff and have for years. They don't have to be paranoid to feel threatened.  STFU please.

I give the former occupied East European nations some latitude...sure they should emulate independence a la Hungary...but everybody as a right to butthurt over past wrongs done to them...otherwise ALL must forfeit any butthurt...  Fair is fair...

Reminds me of the reparations BS...everybody was enslaved by somebody in the past...even Africans enslaved people...but people don't like their hypocrisy exposed...

[patentlymn]

In this war thanks to the internet and social media I can pay attention to the words that people say and write about themselves and  others. The Russians say they were striking electrical distribution centers and now electrical generation centers. That seems to be what is happening. I am sure civilians are killed in the process.

The Kiev govt, military, and many civilians call for killing or driving off certain ethnic groups in the belief that because Lenin named the SSR Ukraine that only so called  Ukrainians should live there. This extends to areas where Russians have lived for hundreds of years. To call them "occupiers" is just weird.  I guess you could call Europeans in North America occupiers too but that is also weird.  Calling for expulsion of such Europeans back to Europe would be bizarre.






.

Then why is Putin et al always repeating that Russocentric view of history to cement their belief in their status as preeminent Slavic hegmon?  Seem a bit touchy about it, eh?  It's like they are denying their Viking ancestors...

I listen to what people say a lot. Now on social media. The people in current Russia I hear say they have grandparents from  all over the place, not just from within the nation of current Russia. Recent posts in AskARussian on reddit support this.  The official Kiev position is that there is some ethnic European group called Ukrainians who are superior.

I understand why people ruled by USSR sided with Germany against USSR. Throwing 30K Kiev Jews into a ravine in 3 days is hard work and not needed to fight USSR. One of the Baltics was the first country to be certified Jew free.

[patentlymn]

...

I give the former occupied East European nations some latitude...sure they should emulate independence a la Hungary...but everybody as a right to butthurt over past wrongs done to them...otherwise ALL must forfeit any butthurt...  Fair is fair...

Reminds me of the reparations BS...everybody was enslaved by somebody in the past...even Africans enslaved people...but people don't like their hypocrisy exposed...

I do not mind the butt hurt and get the Baltics confused. Leaders screwing over their citizens to please western masters I find stupid but it makes sense from a career stand point.

Germany is turning their country into a  pre-industrial society to please the west.

There is butt hurt on many sides. Putin's mother had his father retrieved from a pile of corpses as he was still breathing. He lived. The siege on  Leningrad was supported by Finland leading to the death of maybe 800K people mostly from starvation.

I mostly read headlines or scan stories. Finland and Russia used to trade, including people crossing borders. Presumably there was benefit to both sides. Then Finland joins the sanctions and later blocks travel. Then Finland asks EU to pay them maybe $10B to  make up for their lost trade or border sales. Recently I read that some Finland mall near Russian border declares bankruptcy.

Way to go!

[Libertas]

...

I give the former occupied East European nations some latitude...sure they should emulate independence a la Hungary...but everybody as a right to butthurt over past wrongs done to them...otherwise ALL must forfeit any butthurt...  Fair is fair...

Reminds me of the reparations BS...everybody was enslaved by somebody in the past...even Africans enslaved people...but people don't like their hypocrisy exposed...

I do not mind the butt hurt and get the Baltics confused. Leaders screwing over their citizens to please western masters I find stupid but it makes sense from a career stand point.

Germany is turning their country into a  pre-industrial society to please the west.

There is butt hurt on many sides. Putin's mother had his father retrieved from a pile of corpses as he was still breathing. He lived. The siege on  Leningrad was supported by Finland leading to the death of maybe 800K people mostly from starvation.

I mostly read headlines or scan stories. Finland and Russia used to trade, including people crossing borders. Presumably there was benefit to both sides. Then Finland joins the sanctions and later blocks travel. Then Finland asks EU to pay them maybe $10B to  make up for their lost trade or border sales. Recently I read that some Finland mall near Russian border declares bankruptcy.

Way to go!

Kind of makes a frequent point of mine...not a lot of governments GAFF about "the people"...most pay lip-service, throw a few scraps, make a few subsidized apartments, cycle cheerily named programs and initiatives while the ruling elite live like Lords and Ladies...

[Libertas]

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/analyzing-alleged-j6-plot-was-just-foiled-kiev

I think, willfully or ignorantly, Andrew is silly to think Russian agents were totally hands off on this "plot"...I mean, they'd be stupid not to try to do something to encourage it and improve its chances for success...I sure as sh*t would!  Guess Andrew thinks Putin is dumb or cowardly or something...

[patentlymn]

...

Kind of makes a frequent point of mine...not a lot of governments GAFF about "the people"...most pay lip-service, throw a few scraps, make a few subsidized apartments, cycle cheerily named programs and initiatives while the ruling elite live like Lords and Ladies...

Someone wiser than me said to keep your eye on the next job these people were aspiring to. Often not inside their country.
Apparently Kallas was whining about how poorly she was treated by USSR. her father was a big shot banklster when under USSR.

Also, the EU is about as democratic as the CCP/CPC. I recall that von der leyen was never elected to any office.

These Baltics are nuts.

[Libertas]

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/nine-ukrainian-jets-destroyed-24-hours-russias-military-says

Not sure I trust the Russian numbers...likely some padding there, how much, I have no idea...BDA can sometimes make assumptions that are wrong, everybody doing it can be an unwitting victim of it...

But hitting military and infrastructure targets regularly...

What is really interesting is this -

Recall this phone call?

https://www.reuters.com/world/pentagon-chief-russian-defense-minister-discuss-open-lines-communication-2024-06-25/

https://tass.com/politics/1808467

The two reports are not dissimilar, the latter just emphasizing warnings of poking a nuclear power...

In neither is there any "changes" in strategy or tactics...

However...over at WRSA@GAB is this blurb -

Will Schryver
@imetatronink
?? Since US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin had his little chat several days ago with Russian Defense Minister Andrei Belousov, flights of American RQ-4B reconnaissance drones over the Black Sea have abruptly ceased. 🤔

I will have to check out Monkey and other sources to confirm...but if true, it means the Russians warned the US they'd shoot those flights down, that I have said many times have been going on almost constantly every day since day 1 of this invasion, and the only reason I can surmise is because they changed their profile from reconnaissance to targeting assistance...

TBD

[patentlymn]

The Baltics are crazy. Latvia said that dogs born in Russia cannot compete in Latvian dog shows. Now this.

https://t.me/myLordBebo/36408
🇷🇺🇱🇻 ESCALATION:
“The Latvian army will begin spelling Russia with a lower case 'r' in official documents”

— Sandra Brale, Public Affairs Officer for the Chief of dEfEnSe oF LaTvIa

https://twitter.com/SenoreAmore/status/1808929142219432093
senore_amore
@SenoreAmore
🇷🇺 🇪🇺
YouTube blocked the channels of Russian singers Oleg Gazmanov, Yulia Chicherina, Polina Gagarina, Grigory Leps, Shaman and Vyacheslav Manucharov at the request of Lithuania.