Topic: Gibson Guitars under Obama regulatory attack

[charlesoakwood]

Just because it isn't in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.

I noticed on the news today that the offices and factories of Gibson Guitars in Nashville and Memphis Tennessee were both raided yesterday (8/24) by armed federal agents, forcing a shutdown of operations, and sending employees home.  Since I remembered hearing about Gibson being raided in 2009, this caught my attention.

What's going on here?  Why is a company best known for producing electric guitars being raided by armed feds?  Is it labor?  Illegal aliens?  Are they selling raw milk on the side?  No, it's about wood.  Wood? 

Link

[IronDioPriest]

FTL:

"...Reading something like this literally makes me sick.  You are at the mercy of whoever decides to find something to charge you with, because anything can be argued to be illegal.  And, yes, Ayn Rand's famous quote about tyrannies passing laws to make more criminals is ringing in my ears..."

Something tells me Gibson uses non-union labor and contributes to the GOP.

[rickl]

Maybe this will cause some musicians and music fans to drop their liberal blinders.  I can dream, can't I?

[Pandora]

An update from Gateway.

The Gibson Guitar CEO responded to the unjust raids today:

    Henry Juszkiewicz, Chairman and CEO of Gibson Guitar Corp., has responded to the August 24 raid of Gibson facilities in Nashville and Memphis by the Federal Government. In a press release, Juszkiewicz said: “Gibson is innocent and will fight to protect its rights. Gibson has complied with foreign laws and believes it is innocent of ANY wrong doing. We will fight aggressively to prove our innocence.”

    The raids forced Gibson to cease manufacturing operations and send workers home for the day while armed agents executed the search warrants. “Agents seized wood that was Forest Stewardship Council controlled,” Juszkiewicz said. “Gibson has a long history of supporting sustainable and responsible sources of wood and has worked diligently with entities such as the Rainforest Alliance and Greenpeace to secure FSC-certified supplies. The wood seized on August 24 satisfied FSC standards.”

    Juszkiewicz believes that the Justice Department is bullying Gibson without filing charges.

    “The Federal Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. has suggested that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department’s interpretation of a law in India. (If the same wood from the same tree was finished by Indian workers, the material would be legal.) This action was taken without the support and consent of the government in India.”

Okay, I got it.  We all are now expected to obey the DOJ's interpretation of laws of every other country's government -- validated or not -- as well as the kabillion foisted on us by our own.

[ToddF]

Follow the links

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110825/NEWS01/308250049/Gibson-raided-lips-zipped?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Gibson has been the subject of an ongoing federal lawsuit and a separate investigation into whether it illegally imported endangered ebony woods to use in its sought-after instruments.

And, according to the blog, it does seem to be about...plants.  

[ToddF]

“The Federal Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. has suggested..."

OK, translated.  Once again, someone didn't pay their bribe money to Bagboy Holder.



Tsk tsk

[Pandora]

Follow the links

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110825/NEWS01/308250049/Gibson-raided-lips-zipped?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Gibson has been the subject of an ongoing federal lawsuit and a separate investigation into whether it illegally imported endangered ebony woods to use in its sought-after instruments.

And, according to the blog, it does seem to be about...plants.  

Plants ... and every other damn thing ....  From the Silicon Greybeard blog:

In the last year of the W, the 2008 Farm Bill passed after his veto of it was over-ridden.  Buried deep in this 663 page bill - that now seems tiny compared to the multi-thousand page engorged-tick monstrosity bills of the Obama administration - there was a provision nobody mentioned, nobody talked about, and nobody outside of a few activists even knew about until after the law was enacted.  It was an amendment to the Lacey Act, a law passed in 1900, that "...prohibits trade in wildlife, fish, and plants that have been illegally taken, transported or sold" to quote the Wiki.  I remember reading this summary in 2009, from the excellent piece on Classical Values, whose name I modified for this posting, and which you simply must read.  Read this paragraph carefully:

    This amendment deals with illegal plants -- the primary thrust being illegal wood. Henceforth, all wood is to be a federally regulated, suspect substance. Either raw wood, lumber, or anything made of wood, from tables and chairs, to flooring, siding, particle board, to handles on knives, baskets, chopsticks, or even toothpicks has to have a label naming the genus and species of the tree that it came from and the country of origin. Incorrect labeling becomes a federal felony, and the law does not just apply to wood newly entering the country, but any wood that is in interstate commerce within the country. Here are some excerpts from a summary:

Looking around my house, not one piece of wooden furniture - either the ones I built or the ones I bought - has a label telling the genus and species it came from along with the country of origin.  Certainly the toothpicks and knife handles don't.  I see perhaps 2 dozen felonies within eye shot.  Perhaps I should shut up about that.

    Anyone who imports into the United States, or exports out of the United States, illegally harvested plants or products made from illegally harvested plants, including timber, as well as anyone who exports, transports, sells, receives, acquires or purchases such products in the United States, may be prosecuted. (italics added, bold in original - GB)

This is mind-boggling.  Virtually everything can be regulated under this law.  What isn't included?  Metal is about all I can think of.  Here are some examples from the regulation summary with some highlighting I added.

    ...the scope of products that will require a declaration under the Lacey Act is broad and includes certain live plants, plant parts, lumber, wood pulp, paper and paperboard, and products containing certain plant material or products, which may include certain furniture, tools, umbrellas, sporting goods, printed matter, musical instruments, products manufactured from plant-based resins, and textiles.
    [...]
    After September 30, 2009, based on experience with the implementation of the electronic system for declaration data collection, we will phase in enforcement of the declaration requirements for additional chapters containing plants and plant
    products covered by the Lacey Act, including (but not limited to) Ch. 12 (oil seeds, misc. grain, seed, fruit, plant, etc.), Ch. 13 (gums, lacs, resins, vegetable saps, extracts, etc.), [vegetable saps and extracts? like olive oil, maple syrup? - gb] Ch. 14 (vegetable plaiting materials and products not elsewhere specified or included), [the wildcard so they can arrest you for anything - gb] Ch. 45 (cork and articles of), Ch. 46 (basket ware and wickerwork), Ch. 66 (umbrellas, walking sticks, riding crops), Ch. 82 (tools), Ch. 93 (guns), Ch. 95 (toys, games and sporting equipment), Ch. 96 (brooms, pencils, and buttons), and Ch. 97 (works of art). We will announce a specific phase-in schedule for those chapters in a subsequent Federal Register notice.
    ....
    Ch. 93 Headings (arms and ammunition).
    9302 -- Revolvers and pistols.
    93051020 --Parts and accessories for revolvers and pistols.
    Ch. 94 Headings (furniture, etc.).
    940169 -- Seats with wood frames.
    Ch. 95 Headings (toys, games, & sporting equipment).
    950420 -- Articles and accessories for billiards

Is your head spinning, yet?  Did you know you're a felon if you buy, own, or sell anything in that list that doesn't comply with the law?  This is the kind of stuff that will give you nightmares.

Reading something like this literally makes me sick.  You are at the mercy of whoever decides to find something to charge you with, because anything can be argued to be illegal.  And, yes, Ayn Rand's famous quote about tyrannies passing laws to make more criminals is ringing in my ears.  Gibson's response makes it clear they believe they did everything legally, according to their legal team.  What appears to be the charge is the violation of the laws of India as interpreted by the US DOJ!!

^^ This ^^ sort of thing is why I never opened my own business.  Even in my 30s, I was aware the legal hoop-jumping was not worth it FOR ME; it would have driven me to the clock-tower then.  Now?  Right.  Just giving Leviathan ammo to use against you, because it hasn't been possible for some time to know the laws we're supposed to follow, as in "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

[Alphabet Soup]

Maybe this will cause some musicians and music fans to drop their liberal blinders.  I can dream, can't I?

I doubt it. I've seen it in action. They covet guitars "just" like I covet guitars. They know the materials are on the ban list - and while they doggedly chant the dogma about "saving mother Earth" they deliberately choose the  Mahogany neck, the Brazilian Rosewood fretboard, the ivory inlays, the Koa side pieces and the quilted Maple top. To be a leftist is to be a walking contradiction and hypocrite.

When I'm walking along and see a piece of wood I think to myself, "Wow, look at the grain and color of that wood! That would make a great top to a guitar!" 93 other people walking along see that same piece of wood and kick it out of their path. Am I right and they wrong? No. But neither is the 94th guy who sees that piece of wood and says, "Wow, look at the grain and color of that wood! We must preserve it untouched so future generations may enjoy it!"

This is a classic example of sh!t~for~brains leftists writing crappy law. I understand the need for some safeguards to keep idiots from killing every single elephant on the planet so that I can have ivory dots on my fretboard, but like everything else that they do, it is ill-considered, poorly crafted, and obsessively executed.

Now, I think I'll go play my Gibson 12-string and wait for the SWAT team to arrive.

[Predator Don]

Quite the story down gere.....Quite the gov't we have.

Buried in a bill....Hmmmm..... makes me wonder what else is buried there....or in obamacare.

Gibson already had financial issues due to the flood we had.

[IronDioPriest]

....Given the risks, why don't musicians just settle for the safety of carbon fiber? Some do—when concert pianist Jeffrey Sharkey moved to England two decades ago, he had Steinway replace the ivories on his piano with plastic.

Still, musicians cling to the old materials. Last year, Dick Boak, director of artist relations for C.F. Martin & Co., complained to Mother Nature News about the difficulty of getting elite guitarists to switch to instruments made from sustainable materials. "Surprisingly, musicians, who represent some of the most savvy, ecologically minded people around, are resistant to anything about changing the tone of their guitars," he said.

You could mark that up to hypocrisy—artsy do-gooders only too eager to tell others what kind of light bulbs they have to buy won't make sacrifices when it comes to their own passions. Then again, maybe it isn't hypocrisy* to recognize that art makes claims significant enough to compete with environmentalists' agendas.

*Yes. Yes it is hypocrisy.

[Alphabet Soup]

Given the risks, why don't musicians just settle for the safety of carbon fiber?

Because we can't anticipate what the lunatic left is going to demonize next. BTW: I thought that they had determined that carbon=bad?

Witness the debate about grocery bags. First they said that paper bags were denuding America (paper=bad) and demanded that we switch to plastic bags (plastic=good). Then one of the pinheads decided that plastic took too long to decompose (plastic=bad) and demanded that we return to paper (paper=good). Then the two extremes of the sh!t end of the stick confronted each other and decided both were bad (everything=bad) and demanded that we use cloth bags.

When it was noted that cloth bags were contributing to illness by harboring more germs than the predecessor methods the left threw up their hands and said, "fuk it - shove it in your pockets!" (OK, I made that part up).

The one thing I've learned from all of this? Liberals=Lunatics

Nerf guitars for everyone!

[Pandora]

I'd be laughing because of the ironically succinct way in which you wrote that, Soup, if I wasn't damned infuriated about it all.

[Glock32]

When it was noted that cloth bags were contributing to illness by harboring more germs than the predecessor methods the left threw up their hands and said, "fuk it - shove it in your pockets!" (OK, I made that part up).

You might have made that part up, but that's the gist of it alright. This hubris, this imperious "well it's your problem, deal with it" attitude is exactly why government should be kept small and limited. It really has nothing to do with any particular ideology, it's the mere fact of its huge size that enables this sort of crap. The environmentalists could fantasize all they want about forcing us back into a Stone Age existence, without a big government in place those fantasies would never advance to the point of being enacted.

I watched a show on Animal Planet last night about the new explosive comeback of bedbugs all over the country. They showed several families whose lives have been virtually ruined by infestations they can't get rid of. People have blown their life savings on bizarre treatments like having their entire house heated to 150 degrees in order to kill the bugs. The point in this example, as it relates to the thread topic, is that people have their entire lives, livelihoods, and personal dreams and desires tossed aside by the capricious whims of feel-good enviromarxists. Bedbugs, as you may know, were virtually eliminated by the introduction of DDT in the late 40s. Their comeback is entirely due to the fiat-ban of DDT. I'm sitting here watching that show, seeing people literally surrender their homes to a bunch of insects, and it's entirely because of environmentalists. The banning of DDT is also to blame for the dramatic resurgence of malaria in Africa and other tropical areas of the world.

To me that's the biggest argument in favor of limited government. By keeping it within narrowly prescribed bounds, you make nonsense like these two examples non-starters. The mushy-middle wants to know why we are so insistent on limited government? It's because it curtails future, as-yet unimagined idiocy by denying them the apparatus they would need to impose their idiocy.

[IronDioPriest]

...The mushy-middle wants to know why we are so insistent on limited government? It's because it curtails future, as-yet unimagined idiocy by denying them the apparatus they would need to impose their idiocy.

True, true. And yet I would add that undoing what is already done is of equal if not greater motivation. Shrinking government won't necessarily in and of itself accomplish what needs to happen, and the idiocy with which we are already burdened is unacceptable to free people, let alone what the idiots may attempt in the future. The apparatus can go away, but the regulation and statute will still exist without proactive initiatives by that smaller future government.

So many things must happen in order to put things right. Some days the only thing that keeps me from despair is the futility of despair and the need for hope.

The United States federal government is attacking and threatening the existence of Gibson Guitars. As a musician and and owner of a fine piece of Gibson Americana (1982 Les Paul Black Beauty, purchased brand new in '82), I cannot explain how troubling this is to me. It makes me feel like the country is truly, finally lost.

[Alphabet Soup]

I'm back - and breathless from the workout. I decided to entertain the neighborhood with all my guitars - loudly. (It's OK most of them approve

A while ago I decided to become a badger. I never cared much for badgers - they're not the most appealing critters around. Quiet, unassuming, they tend to their own business and leave their neighbors alone.

But mess with them and they become ounce for ounce the baddest mofo's around. I take care of myself and my little family and don't break any of the important laws. The rest of them can, like Bassmouth Waters said, "Go to hell". I have my distinctly illegal (by their interpretation) firearms and my now politically incorrect and apparently illegal music instruments and I'll be damned if I'm gonna let them go.

The left can continue to cry all they want....but I would caution them in the same way that my dear ol dad used to caution me...

"Keep it up and I'll give you something to cry about".

[IronDioPriest]

...dear ol dad used to caution me...

"Keep it up and I'll give you something to cry about".

My dad used to say the same damn thing. I eventually figured it out.

I don't trust Leftists to possess the same wisdom as an 8 year-old child. In fact, I think they believe the roles are reversed, and that we're the children in need of scolding and reminding of who's boss. Thus, the impasse and the future it brings.

[Damn_Lucky]

FTL:

"...Reading something like this literally makes me sick.  You are at the mercy of whoever decides to find something to charge you with, because anything can be argued to be illegal.  And, yes, Ayn Rand's famous quote about tyrannies passing laws to make more criminals is ringing in my ears..."

Something tells me Gibson uses non-union labor and contributes to the GOP.

Ding Ding Winner 

[charlesoakwood]

Arrest this man, he forced money upon Gibson and made them do it.

John Mclaughlin mahavishnu Orchestra 1974

[IronDioPriest]

How to Turn Guitarists Into Tea Partiers: Take Their Gibsons Away

[LadyVirginia]

Soup,I'm stealing your dad's comment for my signature.  Fits my mood today.